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Old 10-26-2015   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fraser View Post
When I was still using windows I would reformat my drives every 6 months just to get the computer running at a reasonable speed. I run lightroom, photoshop cc and photomechanic all run very smooth and fast.
Try running a 6 year old windows machine, maybe macs are more expensive when new but in my opinion much better value for money.
Oh and viruses are no big deal on a mac.
Is there chance C: disk were specified as a scratch disk for Photoshop, fragmenting it more than it does itself? I assume Macs may come pre-partitioned better and apps offer non-sys partition to install on, while I've seen many Win machines coming with a single big C: disk and people just put everything right there.

My old decommissioned now HP desktop runs fine. Back in the spindle days people used to put system partition on outer part of disk to make it faster. Now I'm tempted to put small SSD there to see it flying, just electricity bill (decade old processors aren't too efficient) slows me down.

Viruses? Since some time (10 years ago?) Windows users have to do some suspect things to catch virus. I think it changed since XP SP2 with built-in firewall? As one don't normally stick his penis here and there so we shouldn't do same on Net. Just be sane and think before doing.

I'm not saying Mac is overpriced or Win is better than Mac. I say Mac is better suited to masses who don't know nor want to know how stuff works.

And no, I wouldn't compare Windows to FSU, it wouldn't be fair to FSU nor Windows. Only time I would agree to this were pre-release of Win95 (Chicago) when it were quest of "how many minutes until restart?" but then I were also using rather complex apps.
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Old 10-26-2015   #42
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Originally Posted by lukitas View Post
the gimp is limited to 8bit.
Someone will say 8bit is good enough, and even be right enough. But 16 bit is better.
btw how it works together with monitor bits? Honestly, never have cared about color bits so I'm blank here. Is 8bit display able to display all the colors 16bit software produces?
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Old 10-27-2015   #43
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i would recommend going with an Apple refurbished product from the Apple Store. A refurbished 13" MacBook Pro (great if you like the option of being mobile) or the 21.5" iMac are good choices. Apple products are easy to use right out of the box, which is good since you don't like computers. Sure, you do get a better value with Window systems but from my experience, my past PC laptops went bad in a few years. I'm still using both an iMac and MacBook Pro from 2011 with Snow Leopard (i think 4? major updates behind) and still running great.
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Old 10-27-2015   #44
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Originally Posted by photomoof View Post
iMac basic:
1.6GHz dual-core Intel Core i5 processor
Turbo Boost up to 2.7GHz
8GB of onboard memory, configurable up to 16GB
1TB hard drive1
Intel HD Graphics 6000
1920-by-1080 sRGB display
.
Definitely not go this route: for photography, four cores in your CPU is a must.

- 8GB of RAM (memory) is recommended
- A GPU (graphics card) isn't really necessary, so don't let that influence your decision
- i5/i7 doens't matter too much, it's all about the amount of cores
- An SSD is really helpful and I would highly recommend getting one
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Old 10-27-2015   #45
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Make it a Mac.
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Old 10-27-2015   #46
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For photography you don't need much besides big RAM and a good monitor. A carefully thought-out DIY build would cost under $1000, all enclosed in an ITX case of your choice.

Buy a mac if you don't want to go through the trouble (and fun) putting a computer together. They will be lacking somehow in the performance, but always (especially the 27'' models) come with great monitors.

Talks about the Mac Mini, there are Windows equivalents from various manufacturers like Intel and Gigabyte (called the NUC and the Brix, respectively). Equally tiny but cheaper than the Mac Mini, semi-upgradable (RAM and hard drive), and comes with better processors.

If you are serious about the digital printing/publishing process, a calibrator is essential. Plenty of choices from Datacolor and X-Rite, but a decent one will cost you no less than $200.
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Old 10-27-2015   #47
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Cores, I think it depends if particular software is threaded and uses all cores. If not, less but more powerful cores would be better.
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Old 10-27-2015   #48
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I honestly think the main argument for a Mac is their new high-resolution displays. They're making the best screens in the world right now, which, for a photographer, should count for something. And the new iMacs are not insanely expensive.

But I agree with Andy: after a long spell in the doldrums, Microsoft is killing it. The new OS looks great and so does their new convertible laptop. I switched to Macs five years ago, mostly because I liked Apple's phone, but I think both platforms have something compelling to offer today.
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Old 10-27-2015   #49
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I honestly think the main argument for a Mac is their new high-resolution displays. They're making the best screens in the world right now, which, for a photographer, should count for something. And the new iMacs are not insanely expensive.

But I agree with Andy: after a long spell in the doldrums, Microsoft is killing it. The new OS looks great and so does their new convertible laptop. I switched to Macs five years ago, mostly because I liked Apple's phone, but I think both platforms have something compelling to offer today.
I would try to see if it works for the size of your files, but I have a "toy" (non-Pro) Surface 3 that runs Lightroom pretty well with the Leica M cameras (I think it is the 8gb/128gb model). With a Microsoft Arc Bluetooth mouse, it is a very compact (and fairly inexpensive) thing to carry with you, and the screen is great. The one principal advantage of the baby surface is that it can power from a micro-usb cord - meaning that you can use it with an external battery pack on a plane.

I am a long time Mac user (24 years now), but the iPads are kind of insulting if you actually need to run grown-up imaging software (and they can't connect to external USB storage), new MacBooks are expensive for what you get, and you don't want to buy anything used that has a potentially abused Li-Ion battery or SSD glued into it.

The other thing you can do is look for an old Mac Pro or a small Dell desktop(!) box. The latter you can get as cheaply as $200. Keyboards and 24" screens are dirt cheap these days, and those machines will not overheat like a laptop will.

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Old 10-27-2015   #50
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Ah the irony, I am now about to buy my first Windows machine in order to run some simple tuning software for my forced induction vehicles. Looking at a super cheap and small Asus T100TA that will live in one of the vehicles...
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Old 10-27-2015   #51
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Originally Posted by mabelsound View Post
I honestly think the main argument for a Mac is their new high-resolution displays. They're making the best screens in the world right now, which, for a photographer, should count for something. And the new iMacs are not insanely expensive.
The 5K screen is indeed incredible. Not so much fun is that one of my kids hit the screen of my Retina 5K with a Hot Wheels vehicle (I think; even under duress, they would not tell me what exactly happened) and chipped the edge. $600 to fix - indicative of Apple's new fixation with thinness (on a desktop machine...), the glass is now fused to the 5K screen unit. Decided to call Dr. Black Tape on that one. Not impressed with the repairability or environmental implications of this.

D
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Old 10-27-2015   #52
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Originally Posted by Dante_Stella View Post
Surface
Oh man that new Surface Book looks killer. I really want one for on-the-go editing. It's amazing what they're packing into those. Back when netbooks were new I bought a Lenovo S12 and used that thing to death (still works, though I don't use it as much). Souped it up and ran 24-channel audio recording backups on it (the "pros" told me that was impossible, it just wasn't fast enough, but I did it). Anyway, I remember folks saying small devices would never really get more powerful - boy were they wrong.
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Old 10-27-2015   #53
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another vote for the Mac Mini. Use your old monitor or a Dell. You'll need a DVD drive and a backup drive...the Mini has no internal drives.. I use mine with PS3....works fine
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Old 10-27-2015   #54
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Originally Posted by kuzano View Post
command line in windows terribly hard to find....

Hmmm. Open the Run command and type in "cmd", press enter.

Or, since Windows 7 type "cmd" in the search window.

Wow, that was hard!
It has always been there, but really it is not to be confused with a UNIX command line.

Back to the discussion at hand,I am considering a tablet, but not sure how that will play out. With companies like canon always in the dark ages software-wise only use the desktop for previewing and controlling my DSLR. However Canon does have have an iOS app: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/eos-...565839396?mt=8

I am spoiled looking at previews from my camera on a 27 inch monitor.

Just a note re monitors the Apple does come with a built in thunderbolt hub. I do like a couple of the cheaper Dell monitors, but the NEC high end offerings are more interesting than the Apple.
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Old 10-27-2015   #55
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Dave,

On the Apple Store web site there is a section for Apple Certified refurbished products. These have a 1 yr. warranty.

If you decide to go with Apple, then this is a way to save a bit of $$.

If you end up with Apple, there is an amazingly versatile post-processing App called Pixelmater. It supports layers and is for $30 it's a bargain.

Regardless of what path you take there will be a learning curve. But people here can help you climb it.

Many people on RFF detest Adobe's $9.99/mo LR/PS Creative Cloud licensing program. However when one is starting from scratch, it is a cost effective way to stay within the Adobe ecosystem compared to buying the stand-alone licenses. This is particularly true if you must have PS. I almost did not mention this option because I didn't want to derail this thread with Adobe CC controversy. If you have any questions about how LR/PS CC works compared to buying stand alone products please PM me.

I realize you are retrained by financial pressures. However short of switching to a 100% analog workflow, money has to be spent.
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Old 10-27-2015   #56
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''My suggestion is to find a smart local kid who'll build you a system.'' This is what I do every five years or so. On a beside, to switch to Apple after so many years of Microsoft use will be a guaranteed pain in the A$$.
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Old 10-27-2015   #57
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...the mac mini has no internal drives...?
what's that fusion drive that mine has?
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Old 10-27-2015   #58
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Originally Posted by back alley View Post
...the mac mini has no internal drives...?
what's that fusion drive that mine has?
I know, funny what people think about tech. When I returned to being a professor a few years back, I was amazed at how few students knew what a hard drive was.

Maybe one out of ten had even a vague idea about how the Internet functioned.

Fact is, one can be a world class racer without knowing how an engine works.
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Old 10-27-2015   #59
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People who wrote the photoshop instruction for Popular Photography Magazine series use the small Mac, no screen.

ou can buy screens from $100 to $2000 depending on size ,color accuracy, ability to properly calibrate, etc. A room properly darkened is required.

I see no reason to tie the screen to the computer like an iMac.

I use a Mac Pro and EIZO 27" Color Edge.
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Old 10-27-2015   #60
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Dave, I didn't see a budget in the original post, but I also didn't read every post after--some, but not all.

The link above to Brad Husick's Mac would be a excellent place to start if you can afford it. Brad is a good guy.

If budget is low, I 2nd/3rd the suggestion for a Mac Mini. My first Mac was a Mini and eventually led to a Macbook Pro, albeit, an older one. I can't afford a new Mac. My son started with a mac mini and my daughter has my old unibody macbook--white plastic wonder. FWIW, I paid about $200 for the mac minis we have. $500 each for the MacBooks. Go to OWC and see what they have available used.
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Old 10-27-2015   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuzano View Post
....

Wow, that was hard!
Did someone say it was hard?

Actually the CMD window under windows 10 can now be resized pretty much as you like.

To get to the run program you can use the Windows key and the R key.

Another way to find the CMD program is the search for CMD as a file. Not as pretty but it works.

PF keys weren't hard either, but people seem to feel they should go the way of the dinosaurs.

B2 (;->
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Old 10-27-2015   #62
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Originally Posted by photomoof View Post
I know, funny what people think about tech. When I returned to being a professor a few years back, I was amazed at how few students knew what a hard drive was.

Maybe one out of ten had even a vague idea about how the Internet functioned.

Fact is, one can be a world class racer without knowing how an engine works.
I spent all Saturday morning teaching six kids about binary, hex and some aspects of how computers work. Kind of like saying "Let's go to the Video Tape" (ala Marv Albert), ain't no tape no more.

The speed at which the ubiquity of fast internet access for some of the world is mind-blowing.

B2 (;->
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Old 10-27-2015   #63
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Wow! So many great posts I can't thank each of you individually but I assure I read and am considering each one in depth.

The good news is today I finally found a way to get my email back up and running on the computer! Yay! Now I can access my D drive with all of my photography files and actually post/send them whenever I desire. It also means, I can continue working with the present computer on my current project at Emory University.

But the handwriting is on the wall... you guys are amazing as the resources you are! Thank you all so very much.
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Old 10-27-2015   #64
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Dave, if you already have a suitable monitor and USB mouse and keyboard, a Mac Mini is an affordable option. The Mac Mini is essentially a notebook computer in a different form factor, sans peripherals. I've found mine to be 100% rock solid reliable.

No problems running Lightroom and CS.
I'll ditto this... I've been using a Mac Mini for several years now with zero problems. I've got it hooked to a Samsung monitor and an Apple Time Machine for back-up.
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Old 10-27-2015   #65
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I scrolled past most of the comments, if no one has already I wanted to point out that if you switch to Mac none of your programs will work on it. I don't know if they will work even on Microsoft W-10 which is all you are going to get with new Windows machines. Therefor, if you have to buy all new software the platform issue isn't too much to worry about, except that you will have to add the expense of that to everything else. I like the Mac Mini idea, and was going to do that but found that all the new ones are only (!) dual core processors. That makes the large files of the modern digitals rather slow to process. Also the 8 gigs of RAM is on the puny side with a dual core. I got the quad core 21.5 iMac with 8 gigs and it's sufficient but not earthshaking in speed. Learning curve wise, you probably will have as much unfamiliarity with W-10 as you will with the Mac OS. Neither is a big leap. Good luck.
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Old 10-27-2015   #66
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Mac Mini idea, and was going to do that but found that all the new ones are only (!) dual core processors. That makes the large files of the modern digitals rather slow to process.
A system with a faster dual-core will feel faster in Photoshop, than a slower quad core, but the quad core will benefit you -- when you run a app like Final Cut Pro, or multi-task.

e.g. A mini with 3 GHz Intel Core i7 will outperform an i5 quad core running PS.

And more ram is clearly better for PS. 32 is really a reason to buy an iMac, but I get by with 16 on my mini, since I am not in a huge hurry, I just use it for personal work.

Obviously a Mac Intel Xeon E5, would probably a better choice is one was do a lot of rendering, but I don't need it.

Some tests and opinions:
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2406293,00.asp
http://www.techetron.com/1216/quad-c...rld-benchmark/
http://9to5mac.com/2015/03/25/how-to...minis-mac-pro/
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Old 10-28-2015   #67
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Unless you definitely want to buy new the silver tower Mac Pros are good machines, and very upgradeable and easy to service. One of those (say a 2009-2010 model) with a matte Apple Cinema Display (23" or 30") is a good combination.

I believe Photoshop CS2 is now free, but I'd advise against using it because the newer versions are much better. Getting CC or CS6 will then be a very large part of the cost to switch to Mac.
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Old 10-28-2015   #68
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Dave, I have an older Mac Mini that I can loan you for a few months (as long as 12) if that will help. Any USB keyboard and mouse will work. PM me with your address. It has an small SSD, but it boots and I can include a VGA cable.

This should get you through till you select you new 2nd best friend.

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Old 10-28-2015   #69
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[quote=Darthfeeble;2544595]I scrolled past most of the comments, if no one has already I wanted to point out that if you switch to Mac none of your programs will work on it. I don't know if they will work even on Microsoft W-10 which is all you are going to get with new Windows machines. ... [\quote]

Software compatibility is always a concern when upgrading. That said, the OP's Lr3 and Ps/CS2 should run fine on Win10. Almost all 3rd party software that runs on Vista or Win7 will run on Win10. Most XP software will also run. I run Ps/CS2 on Win8.1 along with Lr4 so they should run on Win10.
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Old 10-28-2015   #70
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Quote:
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I believe Photoshop CS2 is now free,
I read it's not, it's meant to be easy activated for those who had purchased licenses, and now activation servers don't process CS2 anymore. Free slice of cheese only when you buy a bottle of wine.
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Old 10-28-2015   #71
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Unless you definitely want to buy new the silver tower Mac Pros are good machines, and very upgradeable and easy to service. One of those (say a 2009-2010 model) with a matte Apple Cinema Display (23" or 30") is a good combination.
I have maintained a friend's Mac Pro, and it is still going strong running Final Cut Pro. An amazing machine room for 6 internal drives!

The main advantage of the older tower Pro, is that you can use SCSI with it, and like all intel Macs you can run Windows.

Just looked at one on eBay looks like it will go for $700. Xeon Quad Core 3.2Ghz - 8GB - 1TB HD - 5770 GPU
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Old 10-30-2015   #72
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Hi,

You may blow a fuse mentally going from Windows to Mac. I'd stick to Windows and try and get Windows 7 as it looks and runs like the previous versions. They say that about W10 but I have my doubts at times.

Or you might get away with a new HD and have Windows 7 loaded on it. Changing (or up grading as they say) means a lot of little things change and not always the way you want. F'instance, my old computer had the usual SD card slot but also a CF slot but the latest hasn't.

And an external drive for back ups is a good thing. If my computer was stolen or damage the external drive might just save me a lot of heart ache.

Regards, David
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Old 10-30-2015   #73
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Originally Posted by photomoof View Post
I have maintained a friend's Mac Pro, and it is still going strong running Final Cut Pro. An amazing machine room for 6 internal drives!

The main advantage of the older tower Pro, is that you can use SCSI with it, and like all intel Macs you can run Windows.

Just looked at one on eBay looks like it will go for $700. Xeon Quad Core 3.2Ghz - 8GB - 1TB HD - 5770 GPU
Scsi on an intel macpro?
Have you tried it?
Frank
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Old 10-30-2015   #74
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Originally Posted by Merlijn53 View Post
Scsi on an intel macpro?
Have you tried it?
Frank
Edited:
Atto was is see link one of the last companies to make Mac OS X compatible PCI SCSI cards.
There may be boxes out there with the card.

http://www.scsi4me.com/scsi_hba-cont..._for-macs.html
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Old 10-30-2015   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisLivsey View Post
Edited:
Atto was is see link one of the last companies to make Mac OS X compatible PCI SCSI cards.
There may be boxes out there with the card.

http://www.scsi4me.com/scsi_hba-cont..._for-macs.html
I wanted my scsi Imacon scanner working on my 2010 macpro and tried eveything including this atto card. It cost me a lot of money and effort to find out that the best thing is to get an old g4 and it all works fine. Or, as I finally did, get a Ratoc scsi to firewire converter (around $300 nowadays) . It's working fine now with a g5 imac I had lying around.
Problems you will encounter if you try are:
-apple stopped supporting scsi somewhere along the road
-you need an old operating system (no later than snow leopard) to get the software for the scsi scanner working
-the oldest system you can use on a mac, is the system it came with
- the fact that it works, does not mean that it keeps on working tomorrow or next week
My advice is don't even think about it!

But my point in the earlier post was, that you should not go telling someone, who obviously knows nothing about these things, that it works, because if you get it to work, it is only under very special circumstances.
You could ie install snow leopard on a separate disc on your macpro, get a Ratoc converter and you have a good chance it works. But in real life there are a lot of problems if you want the rest of your computer working on a newer system. The SL system does not recognize the disks with the newer system, so try to startup your main disk :-)
But it is getting a bit off topic I'm afraid.
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Old 10-30-2015   #76
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Originally Posted by Merlijn53 View Post
Scsi on an intel macpro?
Have you tried it?
Frank
I only used SCSI hard drives on a Pro, which has not been updated OS wise. I was most decidedly not trying to set up an Imacon scanner!

I do not miss SCSI, the only hard drives which were problematic, awful experience with scanners.

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Originally Posted by Merlijn53 View Post
- the fact that it works, does not mean that it keeps on working tomorrow or next week
You lost me there Frank, why would a system stop working (other than hardware failure)? Assuming one boots to the original supplied OS what would change? After all one can boot several versions of OS.

I guess it is important to note, if one gets an older computer working with something like an Imacon scanner don't change anything in the software?
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Old 10-30-2015   #77
Dwig
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I only used SCSI hard drives on a Pro, which has not been updated OS wise. I was most decidedly not trying to set up an Imacon scanner!

I do not miss SCSI, the only hard drives which were problematic, awful experience with scanners.

You lost me there Frank, why would a system stop working (other than hardware failure)? Assuming one boots to the original supplied OS what would change? After all one can boot several versions of OS.

I guess it is important to note, if one gets an older computer working with something like an Imacon scanner don't change anything in the software?
At work, I still using an older "late 2009" MacPro (dual Xenon w/ 12gig RAM). It ran 10.6.8 when I started working there and has since been upgraded to 10.8.x. Some of the external drives are SCSI 800 and our Imacon 848 is SCSI. All worked fine under 10.6.x and still work fine under 10.8.x. Admittedly this old beast isn't quite as fast as my personal off-the-shelf 2013 vintage Dell XPS8700 (quad cord I7 w/ 8gig RAM) when working with larger Ps files (large=600mb+). The old hard drive as lethargic by today's standards and are the main bottleneck.

We'll likely replace the MacPro in the not too distant future and the replacement is likely be a top model iMac stuffed with at least 32gb RAM and a new Thunderbolt external drive or drive array. Our off-site backup drives are USB3, which a new iMac can make good use of but the old MacPro requires that they fall back to USB2 speeds making a full backup take some 30+ hours (3 nights).

The budget restricted user should seriously consider using Windows. Mac's are great, but the cost more for the same quality and performance.
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Old 10-30-2015   #78
Merlijn53
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Originally Posted by photomoof View Post
I only used SCSI hard drives on a Pro, which has not been updated OS wise. I was most decidedly not trying to set up an Imacon scanner!

I do not miss SCSI, the only hard drives which were problematic, awful experience with scanners.



You lost me there Frank, why would a system stop working (other than hardware failure)? Assuming one boots to the original supplied OS what would change? After all one can boot several versions of OS.

I guess it is important to note, if one gets an older computer working with something like an Imacon scanner don't change anything in the software?
Well, as you remark, scsi can be problematic. I suppose that, combined with hardware that is not meant to be used with scsi, gives problems.
It all works better on a G4.
Frank
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Old 10-30-2015   #79
Merlijn53
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At work, I still using an older "late 2009" MacPro (dual Xenon w/ 12gig RAM). It ran 10.6.8 when I started working there and has since been upgraded to 10.8.x. Some of the external drives are SCSI 800 and our Imacon 848 is SCSI. All worked fine under 10.6.x and still work fine under 10.8.x. Admittedly this old beast isn't quite as fast as my personal off-the-shelf 2013 vintage Dell XPS8700 (quad cord I7 w/ 8gig RAM) when working with larger Ps files (large=600mb+). The old hard drive as lethargic by today's standards and are the main bottleneck.

We'll likely replace the MacPro in the not too distant future and the replacement is likely be a top model iMac stuffed with at least 32gb RAM and a new Thunderbolt external drive or drive array. Our off-site backup drives are USB3, which a new iMac can make good use of but the old MacPro requires that they fall back to USB2 speeds making a full backup take some 30+ hours (3 nights).

The budget restricted user should seriously consider using Windows. Mac's are great, but the cost more for the same quality and performance.
Afaik, there is no scsi 800. I suppose you mean firewire 800.
The 848 has scsi and firewire, so that's no problem with a new computer/system.
Frank
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Old 10-30-2015   #80
photomoof
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The budget restricted user should seriously consider using Windows. Mac's are great, but the cost more for the same quality and performance.
That used to be true, but if you run the numbers for exactly the same configuration, prices are nearly identical. And right now there is simply nothing quite like the new iMac displays at that price.

If you spec out a Dell workstation exactly the same as a Mac Pro, the Dell is actually more expensive.

Where PC's are cheaper, is when you simply buy low end monitors, keyboards, and mice. Apple does not make any low end items, the closest they come is the mini.

The new rechargeable Apple mouse and keyboard, included with the new iMacs are simply in a class by themselves for instance.

I personally have a mini, but at under 2 grand (USD) the iMac 27inch is currently unbeatable, unless you are a professional.
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