RUMOR: Zeiss Ikon made by Sony
Old 10-30-2014   #1
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RUMOR: Zeiss Ikon made by Sony

This is a very unlikely rumor, but...

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr1-z...ing-late-2014/
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Old 10-30-2014   #2
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Yes, but...
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Old 10-30-2014   #3
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Rumor must have come out from a Colorado Pot shop. But you never know.
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Old 10-30-2014   #4
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No OVF no LCD that sounds exciting. I hope the EVF is included haha!
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Old 10-30-2014   #5
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Well, someone has to come out with "the next BIG thing" in cameras . . . right ?
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Old 10-30-2014   #6
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I guess the main question is, assuming the rumor is true, what type of mount will it have?
ZM or Sony? Given Sony's penchant for electronic wizardry, I think its safe to say this will be an AF camera with zero technological support for M mount lenses besides focus peaking
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Old 10-30-2014   #7
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Is there any point in driving regular nissan, dressed up to look like nismo?
never have wanted racing style pedals put into street model.....
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Old 10-30-2014   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwesi View Post
I guess the main question is, assuming the rumor is true, what type of mount will it have?
ZM or Sony? Given Sony's penchant for electronic wizardry, I think its safe to say this will be an AF camera with zero technological support for M mount lenses besides focus peaking
Main question? Not for me.
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Old 10-30-2014   #9
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No OVF in a digital ZI? It's like taking a Ferrari and stripping the engine! By all accounts (though not mine) is one of the most liked featured of the Ikons.
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Old 10-30-2014   #10
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Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
Main question? Not for me.
The first time I think we have ever differed! That is: if the rumor was incorrect and they were leaving the OVF -and it remained an M mount.

I like love the idea! A lot of folks see the big L creeping ever more skyward, beyond their reach. In turn, though admittedly nichey, the market for an affordable digital optical rangefinder is creeping ever more viable.

I would buy one. In fact, I am considering a ZM right now!
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Old 10-30-2014   #11
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burancap, don't get me wrong, I would like a a cheaper m mount digital rangefinder... I just don't think this is going to be it. Then again, I'm a A7r user, so if it's a NEX mount, I'm ok with that too.
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Old 10-30-2014   #12
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If it's full-frame 24x36 then I will be very interested.

It could be the first digi that breaks film's bind on my heart
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Old 10-30-2014   #13
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I see this being an E-Mount camera, as it would apparently be built by Sony. This would make perfect sense with the new Zeiss Loxia lenses that are being released.

I'd prefer a purely optical viewfinder, but if Sony can put together some kind of hybrid optical/digital viewfinder, I'd be pretty pleased. But, as it sounds like a purely EVF camera, how in the world are they going to handle the labyrinth of a menu system that Sony has designed for their recent cameras? Hopefully it is greatly simplified. All manual controls and a super simplified menu system or no menu system at all.

What a killer rumor. Though I doubt it will ever come to fruition.
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Old 10-30-2014   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samouraï View Post
I see this being an E-Mount camera, as it would apparently be built by Sony. This would make perfect sense with the new Zeiss Loxia lenses that are being released.
I agree.

Quote:
I'd prefer a purely optical viewfinder, but if Sony can put together some kind of hybrid optical/digital viewfinder, I'd be pretty pleased.
Who wouldn't? I wouldn't count on it though...
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Old 10-30-2014   #15
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Why would Sony or Zeiss build such a thing with e-mount?
I don't see the point.
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Old 10-30-2014   #16
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A Zeiss Ikon should have an M mount by definition. No OVF, no RF, no LCD, that's a lot of nos. The whole things sounds like a hoax to me. The only company capable of building a digital RF apart from Leica is Cosina. Zeiss said too many times already they have dropped their plans to make a digital ZI long ago.

I understand however how some would view a Sony Nex 7 like FF version with E mount as being a digital ZI.
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Old 10-30-2014   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardKaraa View Post
A Zeiss Ikon should have an M mount by definition.
Really? Why?

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Old 10-30-2014   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardKaraa View Post
A Zeiss Ikon should have an M mount by definition. No OVF, no RF, no LCD, that's a lot of nos. The whole things sounds like a hoax to me. The only company capable of building a digital RF apart from Leica is Cosina. Zeiss said too many times already they have dropped their plans to make a digital ZI long ago.

I understand however how some would view a Sony Nex 7 like FF version with E mount as being a digital ZI.
Actually..Fuji medium format rf cameras gives it the technical knowledge to be able to do a drf as well..but I rather doubt they ever will given their hybrid ovf/evf finder they use in the x series cameras. Not sure if they made their own rf sub-assemblies or bought them from a third party when they were doing rf cameras.

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Old 10-30-2014   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
This is a very unlikely rumor, but...

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr1-z...ing-late-2014/
I am actually more interested in this wild and unsubstianted rumor. Sony may release a foveon like sensor. If I remember correctly, they did put out a patent.

http://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/late...ast-prime-also

But everyone is commenting that some new fe mount cameras will be coming out early 2015.

Gary
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Old 10-30-2014   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
Really? Why?

A digital version of this one would be even more interesting
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Old 10-30-2014   #21
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Quote:
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Actually..Fuji medium format rf cameras gives it the technical knowledge to be able to do a drf as well..but I rather doubt they ever will given their hybrid ovf/evf finder they use in the x series cameras. Not sure if they made their own rf sub-assemblies or bought them from a third party when they were doing rf cameras.

Gary
I am still hoping Fuji will one day make a FF mirrorless and I am very sure it would be something fantastic. I really love their retro designs and ergonomics and much prefer it to Sony. Most probably not a true RF but I'm sure it would be close enough in functionality, just like the x-pro1. by the way, last Fuji RF medium format was a Cosina
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Old 10-30-2014   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardKaraa View Post
A digital version of this one would be even more interesting
Very true...
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Old 10-30-2014   #23
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Originally Posted by EdwardKaraa View Post
by the way, last Fuji RF medium format was a Cosina
I heard that as well which is why I used past tense when I referred to Fuji rf cameras.

The pictures I take don't really need FF sensor. I bought the Sony A7 mainly as my next digital universal back for legacy lenses (hated my Sony nex5n UI immensely). The Sony a7 is like a breath of fresh air in comparison. I only have one native FF lens, the 35f2.8. For me, apsc is just fine. I actually have been shooting more w/ the normal e mount lenses like Sigma 30f2.8 then the legacy lenses lately. Don't mind the loss of mp. I really don't need to blow up a print that big. I use bigger mp to crop in post anyway..

The Fuji UI w/ their hybrid ovf/evf on a Sony a6000 like camera whether APSC OR FF would be very nice.

Other people are starting to copy the Fuji retro control layout. Check out the Panasonic lx100.

I like the Fuji native lens lineup much better than what Sony has on their roadmap. I am looking forward to what will come out in the xp2 given what we have seen in the x100t.

Between the Sony and Zeiss native lens offerings, I actually like the sigma apsc e mount art lens series better.. Right now there are only two lenses that appeal to me in the FE mount, 35f2.8 and 55f1.8. Just MHO.

Gary
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Old 10-30-2014   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryLH View Post
I heard that as well which is why I used past tense when I referred to Fuji rf cameras.

The pictures I take don't really need FF sensor. I bought the Sony A7 mainly as my next digital universal back for legacy lenses (hated my Sony nex5n UI immensely). The Sony a7 is like a breath of fresh air in comparison. I only have one native FF lens, the 35f2.8. For me, apsc is just fine. I actually have been shooting more w/ the normal e mount lenses like Sigma 30f2.8 then the legacy lenses lately. Don't mind the loss of mp. I really don't need to blow up a print that big. I use bigger mp to crop in post anyway..

The Fuji UI w/ their hybrid ovf/evf on a Sony a6000 like camera whether APSC OR FF would be very nice.

Other people are starting to copy the Fuji retro control layout. Check out the Panasonic lx100.

I like the Fuji native lens lineup much better than what Sony has on their roadmap. I am looking forward to what will come out in the xp2 given what we have seen in the x100t.

Between the Sony and Zeiss native lens offerings, I actually like the sigma apsc e mount art lens series better.. Right now there are only two lenses that appeal to me in the FE mount, 35f2.8 and 55f1.8. Just MHO.

Gary
If the rumored X-Pro2 had the X100T viewfinder-in-the-viewfinder, the XP2 would then be a wonderful manual-focusing legacy lens platform. I'm very much looking forward to its arrival (sometime in 2015?).
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Old 10-30-2014   #25
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That "rumor" is the dumbest thing that I've read this month. No facts. no sources. It proves that you can simply be an idiot with a computer and make others believe that what you say is true. Not people here. Just generally. And then you get companies to advertise on your site.

Maybe I'm the dumb one.
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Old 10-30-2014   #26
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I'm with you on this one Mike.

I should start my own rumor site. I'm chock full of off-the-wall, crazy ideas.
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Old 10-30-2014   #27
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When I attended the latest Gala Dinner at the Reykjavík Leica store, one of the PR flacks let slip that Sony had made overtures toward Leica to have them use their latest FF sensor technology in upcoming digital Ms. the idea was that Sony would benefit not so much from the sales but from the publicity.

...OK, never mind, just testing your theory, Mike.
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Old 10-30-2014   #28
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Quote:
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I'm with you on this one Mike.

I should start my own rumor site. I'm chock full of off-the-wall, crazy ideas.
There is not enough profit margin in it. No one their right mind would do it for purely a profit motive. Leica will be the only drf manufacturer IMHO. The only way someone would do a drf is more for showing that Leica is not the only one. I not sure anyone has that big a war chest to playing that type of games w/o the investors going after their heads.

The closest u will ever see is the Fuji ovf/evf hybrid type design.. Leica owns the roost on drf. No one wants to take a chance.. All one needs to c is the Epson drf.. While successful up to a point..it was not successful enough to keep on competing w/ Leica. Any that is MHO.

The Ricoh gxr w/ m module was the only other manufacturer I am aware of that even did anything special to make rf lenses work correctly w/ their sensor. Ricoh has discontinued the whole gxr line. I doubt they would have done it if it was making enough profit for them. I rather doubt they are going to re-introduce a rf like camera friendly sensor like the one they had on the a12 m-module as well. It will be more like if it happens to work, great... Ala Sony a7 or a7s or Nex 5n ..etc.

While I have a Sony a7 to use w/ my legacy lenses, at the end of the day in digital, I am more interested in native lenses for the camera.

Electronic solutions to focusing aids, such a peaking or digital split image (like slr style that Fuji introduced) or the ovf w/ center evf overlay (Fuji x100t) maybe the closest one will have from other manufacturers outside of Leica to help w/ your rf lenses, but I doubt anyone but Leica is going to do anything special to help out w/ the possible range of rf issues as it relates to their sensors.

If I get the urge to shoot w/ an rf camera, I will shoot film.

Anyway as I said just MHO of the reality that exist today. I would be happy to be wrong.. But in reality for me..even if someone else made a drf unless it was under my magic number, I would not buy it...digital is like computers and audio gear... It is a merry go round, always something better within 2 years of whenever u bought what u bought. On the otherhand, if u are happy w/ what u already have, what does it matter what the next great thing is. The only issue is what u got eventually wears out, breaks down, or u have an accident. As it gets older, electronic components that were used in your camera are not available anymore. The best a repair shop can do is hope to have a camera body to scavenge, otherwise sol..digital rot. I am not aware of any camwra maker that controls the manufacture of all the electronic components in their camara bodies, Leica included. I have film cameras that date back to around 1920s or so that work fine today, can't say the same for some of my digital cameras I have had over the years.

Gary
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Old 10-31-2014   #29
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Well, I don't think it is completely out of the realm of possibility that Sony could make a Zeiss Ikon for Zeiss. It's only a name, so it does not mean that it will be a rangefinder at all. The most recent Zeiss Ikon rangefinder was just one product that used the Zeiss Ikon name.
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Old 10-31-2014   #30
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My guess is that it would look like a Fuji X-E1 (EVF only), but with a full-frame E-mount. Not the worst thing in the world, but it doesn't really get me super-excited either.
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Old 10-31-2014   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardKaraa View Post
No OVF no LCD that sounds exciting.!
sounds like a SWC ( ZI had a similiar analogue model )
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Old 10-31-2014   #32
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My guess is that it would look like a Fuji X-E1 (EVF only), but with a full-frame E-mount. Not the worst thing in the world, but it doesn't really get me super-excited either.
I agree.
Aestheticaly, there is something special about the rangefinder window that completes the look. The XE1 and the MD have always looked blind to me.
Kind of like the eye is missing.
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Old 10-31-2014   #33
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Is it me, or does the late Zeiss Ikon ZI/ZM not look an awful lot like a Minolta CLE Mk.II?

Despite the Cosina involvement, I wonder if any of the former Minolta engineers that were picked up by Sony aren't running a Skunk Works in the basement?
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Old 10-31-2014   #34
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It's a no brainer and if done well, even sans RF with EVF only, and M mount, it would easily sell for around 2k.

It's silly NOT to do it, really.

Zeiss is popping out glass for digital M as it is.

I don't think it's really too hard technically today either, just be sure you have cover over sensor very thin, unlike A7.

What gives it away as likely not happening:
1) it's too logical.
2) No LCD--that would be fine, but I suspect it's coming from the Leica special M release. This could be selling point for some though.

I would rather see a cover for the LCD and very tough compact build: a field camera.
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Old 10-31-2014   #35
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Originally Posted by uhoh7 View Post
It's a no brainer and if done well, even sans RF with EVF only, and M mount, it would easily sell for around 2k.

It's silly NOT to do it, really.

Zeiss is popping out glass for digital M as it is.

I don't think it's really too hard technically today either, just be sure you have cover over sensor very thin, unlike A7.

What gives it away as likely not happening:
1) it's too logical.
2) No LCD--that would be fine, but I suspect it's coming from the Leica special M release. This could be selling point for some though.

I would rather see a cover for the LCD and very tough compact build: a field camera.
I agree- its a no-brainer.
there really is no reason why Sony wouldn't make a full frame XE-2 clone.
Its just a matter of changing the form factor of an existing line up (A7 series)
It would cement their position as leader in the mirrorless world.

I don't think we are going to see a digital ikon made by Sony anytime soon. I think something got lost in rumor translation
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Old 10-31-2014   #36
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You almost wonder how much longer Sony will be around. They just released their 3rd quarter results today and they lost 1.2 billion USD dollars. They’ve also lost money six out of the past seven years. I understand their camera division is in good shape, but such big losses for the parent company are not sustainable. Something's got to give sooner or later.

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Old 10-31-2014   #37
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Uhoh7,

Given all the good stuff people have said the a7s 12mp sensor works w/ rf lenses, wouldn't u essentially have that if Sony put this sesnor in an a6000 like body? If they did a Nex 7 version of the body so u could dedicate a wheel for exposure comp, then that would even be better.

But if others are expecting a drf from anyone outside of Leica, I doubt that will ever happen. Evf as u have stated is more likely. Best case is a hybrid ovf/evf like Fuji.

On a different point here..I know others who can focus a rf lenses so much faster myself.. My reality is I am slow enough..between shots, I set my rf lens to what maybe the proper zone focus for where I am.. If I have time to focus correctly, I will, otherwise I depend on my zone focus and f8 to handle the situation..whether I am using the Sony a7 or one of my film cameras...an LCD only model while very limiting, so long as it has capability via hotshoe to use an ovf would still be usable for those comfortable w/ zone/scale focusing if LCD is washed out by the sun. It would not be my preference.

Gary
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Old 10-31-2014   #38
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Manufacturing a basic FF base module that includes sensor/electronics/lens mount (E&M) is interesting. Along the top portion of the device is where you attach either the EVF module or the....wait for it...mechanical RF option.
I'm thinking someone 'needs' to separate the RF assembly from the base unit.
As with other modular designs, the base unit could be used in any number of applications/industries. The base unit programmable and monitored wirelessly.
Who's going to design and manufacture the RF assembly?
On second thought perhaps not such a good idea. (lol)
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Old 10-31-2014   #39
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You almost wonder how much longer Sony will be around. They just released their 3rd quarter results today and they lost 1.2 billion USD dollars. They’ve also lost money six out of the past seven years. I understand their camera division is in good shape, but such big losses for the parent company are not sustainable. Something's got to give sooner or later.

Jim B.
That is a lot of money. Do u happen to know which divisions are the big losers?

I saw the Fuji numbers via Fuji rumors site, they are doing pretty good quarter over quarter. The xt1 turned the corner for them.

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Old 10-31-2014   #40
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That is a lot of money. Do u happen to know which divisions are the big losers?

I saw the Fuji numbers via Fuji rumors site, they are doing pretty good quarter over quarter. The xt1 turned the corner for them.

Gary
I know their insurance and entertainment divisions are doing quite well. And despite the loss-leading PS4, they're apparently making money there, too.

Major losses stem from their Vaio PC business. They were losing a lot of money there, and the costs of exiting the industry (no more Sony Vaios going forward) was another major expense. So maybe in a year or two, once they're past all that they'll be doing better.

Camera and camcorder industry is a tough market these days because of cell phones...

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/28/bu...anted=all&_r=0
http://www.forbes.com/sites/danielny...profits-war/2/
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