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120 / 220 film RF's 120 / 220 format rangefinders including Fuji, Koni-Omega, Mamiya Press, Linhof 6x7/6x9 cameras, Mamiya 6/7 among others, but excluding the 120 folders and the Voigtlander 667 cameras that have their own forums.

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Mamiya 7 50mm MTF
Old 04-24-2012   #1
mas
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Mamiya 7 50mm MTF

Does anyone have the MTF value or LPI for the Mamiya 7 50mm lens?

Thank you.
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data
Old 04-26-2012   #2
EdSawyer
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data

I don't have the MTF (would like to see that too) but Pop Photo did some tests at one point, and posted lp/mm numbers. I have those PDF'ed here:

http://www.edsawyer.com/lenstests/

along with other lens test data and reviews of the m7 and other stuff. (The specific file is: PP_Mamiya_7II_Lenses_test_and_review.pdf)

Also, Chris Perez did some testing of the mamiya and other lenses, here:

http://www.hevanet.com/cperez/MF_testing.html

Where he did test the 50.

-Ed
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Mamiya 7 50mm
Old 04-26-2012   #3
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Mamiya 7 50mm

Thanks Ed. Interesting that the data is so different, but it gives me what I need.

I would like to compare to F-Mount lenses: Zeiss 21mm, and Nikon 17-35 in the 20mm range.

Thanks Again.

Michael
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Old 04-26-2012   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mas View Post
I would like to compare to F-Mount lenses: Zeiss 21mm, and Nikon 17-35 in the 20mm range.
Ha! (funny)

Not even Leica produces wide-angle lenses as good as the Mamiya 7 ones - your Zeiss 21mm and Nikkor 17-35 will be absolutely trounced. What would you achieve by even trying to compare?

This is like a car magazine comparing the performance of a 1990 Toyota Camry and a Mclaren F1.

The Mamiya 7 lenses are unparalleled perfection in the most absolute sense of the word, end of story.
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Old 04-26-2012   #5
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Of course I knew someone would say that. Meanwhile, I'm still curious.
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Old 04-26-2012   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mas View Post
Of course I knew someone would say that. Meanwhile, I'm still curious.
I am not aware that Mamiya has ever published MTF graphs, and any third-party attempt at producing them are usually fraught with inaccuracy unless you have a Zeiss collimator

It's probably best to imagine an empty graph, because all the lines are jammed to the top. Really, don't even care about resolution with these lenses - like Rolls-Royce said: "Resolution is sufficient".

Testing shows the 80mm, wide open in the corners to best the centre resolution of any Rollei/Zeiss/Hasselblad 80mm ever made, for example. The wide angles appear to be similarly superior.

Everybody gets different lp/mm when they test these, because they don't have sufficient technique or equipment worthy of testing this lens series.
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comparisons
Old 04-27-2012   #7
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comparisons

hi Michael -

Given that the M7 lenses are non-retrofocus designs along the lines of the biogon formula, they will inherently be superior to the retrofocus designs for the small-format cameras from zeiss and nikon. Even if the retrofocus 35mm lenses were better, the much larger format of the 6x7 neg would supercede any advantage of the lens, when it comes to results-on-paper.

Mamiya did publish MTF of some of their lenses. I have the MTF for several of the RZ67 lenses posted on the abovementioned site, I believe. (if not, I can post them).

Comparisons are only valid when comparing using similar techniques, so for example all of Chris Perez's comparisons are valid amongst themselves. Likewise the Pop Photo tests are valid within their subset. The most useful part of the test data is determining which apertures are best for which lens. Generally f/8-f/11 will be the sharpest on the M7 stuff.

Some of the RZ67 APO teles are sharpest wide open (!), indicating diffraction-limited performance at wide open aperture - that is about as good as lenses can get. Few lenses can match that claim, even today.

FWIW
-Ed
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Old 03-16-2017   #8
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Here are some original lens graphs from Mamiya posted on Camera-wiki.org, unfortunately not the 50mm. I don't know how to correctly read the chart, however especially the 43mm looks impressive.


Mamiya 7 lenses aberration/MTF diagram by Camera Historian, on Flickr
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Old 03-17-2017   #9
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The MTF of the 43mm is almost unbelievable. Most likely the best wide-angle lens ever made.

Thanks for posting the MTF chart!
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Agreed!
Old 03-17-2017   #10
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Agreed!

Thanks for posting that! Definitely interesting to see. Based on the original scan on flickr it looks like it appeared in Photographic Industries, a Japanese magazine. ISSN 0371-0106 I requested that from interlibrary loan (bit of a long-shot), if it arrives I will scan and post the whole article. I would be interested in knowing what frequencies they used in this MTF chart. Probably something like 10, 20, 40?

-Ed
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Old 03-17-2017   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mas View Post
Does anyone have the MTF value or LPI for the Mamiya 7 50mm lens?
While I have no graphical or numerical data, about 12 years experience using this lens tells me all I need to know. It's performance is spectacular.

Comparing a lens that will expose a 6x7 neg with one that exposes a 35mm neg is meaningless because of the negative size.
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Old 03-17-2017   #12
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I had the 43 and have the 65. the 43 had a lot of vignetting but I liked that.
both lenses are so crazy sharp really! The 80mm is supposed to be even more.
Btw I sold the 43 because the closest focus wasn't close enough for an ultra wide. (at least for me)
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Old 04-08-2017   #13
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Here is something more for chart lovers... Looks like the 43mm might be a bit sharper in the centre, wide open, but the 50mm is better in the corners? Distortion seems a bit less on the 43mm. I don't know how to interpret these correctly, though.

50mm F4.5 for Mamiya 7 by Camera Historian, on Flickr
Mamiya 7 50mm (blue) 43mm (red) MTF @ F4.5 by Camera Historian, on Flickr
Mamiya 7 50mm (blue) 43mm (red) MTF @ F8 by Camera Historian, on Flickr
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Old 04-08-2017   #14
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Wish I could understand those graphs. The graphs I'm used to were produced by 'What Camera Weekly' in the very late 70's or early 80's in Britain, and they had the aperture along the bottom and the resolution up the left side.I could understand them easily. The graphs in this thread may as well be written in chinese characters, but telling a story in the old-kingdom egyptian language.

I know 'MTF' stands for 'Modular Transfer Function' but that's it. I don't even know why, in the last two graphs, the 'MTF' and numbers have been super-imposed. As far as I can see, with the functions of the graphs and the numbers being the same, all that needed to be done was to put the blue and red lines on the graph and a 'key' put on the side or bottom of the graph.
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Old 04-10-2017   #15
EdSawyer
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that the 43 is a little sharper on center and 50 a little better in corners correlates with the data I have from Pop Photo. https://pubpages.unh.edu/~eme39/PP_M...and_review.pdf
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