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X100S vs Ricoh GR
Old 02-08-2017   #1
bushwick1234
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X100S vs Ricoh GR

I am looking for a new camera. Should I toss my X100S and get the GR? Focusing speed matters. Rockwell says about the GR this:
"I don't see any reason for this camera [Ricoh GR],
If I want a small take-everywhere camera, I prefer my iPhone 5."
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Old 02-08-2017   #2
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I have both, I like both. GR lens is better overall, but no viewfinder. X100 has the hybrid VF. Really can't compare thee two cameras. Different focal lengths and many other differences. Rockwell is an idiot. GR is APS-C.
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Old 02-08-2017   #3
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Kaniel,

When I was considering a GR a few years ago, I borrowed a friend's X100 for a trip. I enjoyed using the X100, and the images I have from the trip are fantastic. However, there were a few occasions when I didn't take it out with me because I didn't want to "carry a camera." On return I decided to get a GR, which I have been very happy with; for me, it just reaches another level of portability beyond the X100 series cameras. If you like the X100S files, maybe also consider a Fuji X70? I think there are some threads here comparing it with the GR.

The new iPhones can take fantastic pictures, and I am not above using them for that purpose, but I enjoy the ergonomics and control that come with using a dedicated camera.

Edit to add: the GR focusing speed is decent, and the snap mode can be good for street photography.
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Old 02-08-2017   #4
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I have both. The Fuji is a more considered and leisurely experience, and the images are great. The GR is more snapshot-ish really, being easily usable with one hand, and with incredible quality. Depends on how you want to shoot.
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Old 02-09-2017   #5
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Plus one for the X100. Great camera and I love the files.
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Old 02-09-2017   #6
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I would second taking a look at the X70. I've used all three - X70, X100T, and GR - and ended up going with the X70. It had the best AF performance by far. The GR is technically smaller with its collapsible lens, but the X70 is only slightly larger and easily fits in a jacket pocket. The lens is noticeably sharper than the X100's, and I believe easily matches the GR in terms of performance. The tilting screen is a plus that neither of the other features as well.

Of course, a lot of it comes down to preference for focal length (28 vs 35), and whether you want a viewfinder or not. If you can answer those two questions, much of the decision is made for you.
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Old 02-09-2017   #7
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I have the x100s - I'd say go ahead and shell out for a T or the new F. They're both leagues better than the S in terms of AF and finder. The F has a better ergonomics as well. You'll be able to keep it pretty much forever (considering the S is still relevant) but offers a proportionally better camera for the money.

The GR is alright, but not mind-blowing. I've heard don't get the GRII from a lot of people - but maybe that's just if you're upgrading.
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Old 02-09-2017   #8
bushwick1234
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Thanks for the suggestions.
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Old 02-09-2017   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pablito View Post
I have both, I like both. GR lens is better overall, but no viewfinder. X100 has the hybrid VF. Really can't compare thee two cameras. Different focal lengths and many other differences. Rockwell is an idiot. GR is APS-C.
Well, that pretty much sums it up but I'll still add my 2 pennies anyway.

I have two X100S's and I love them for the design, the hybrid viewfinder (I use the OVF almost exclusively), the image quality and the way the camera handles. It's more like handling a familiar manual film camera. If I was limited to just one camera, I would probably choose the X100S over the rest. It does everything well and it's easy to handle and use.

I also have a GRII. I also love this camera. It has one of the sharpest lenses I've ever used, it handles well one-handed and, for a relatively large sensor compact, it fits in my pocket. However, the GRII lacks that hybrid viewfinder of the Fuji. And, compared to the Fuji user interface of dials and rings, the Ricoh takes some getting used. It follows the design of other small digital compacts but ups the ante in image quality.

Picking between the two is something I would hate to do. Fact is, I sometimes carry both--the Fuji on a strap around my neck and the Ricoh in my pocket.
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Old 02-09-2017   #10
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If AF speed matters, you don't get the S version of the X100... the T is the minimum to get up to GR speeds.
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Old 02-09-2017   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrMcCoy View Post
They're both leagues better than the S in terms of AF and finder.
Finder????
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Old 02-09-2017   #12
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They're both great cameras but with different strengths. X100S/T/F definitely have better AF than the GR in my experience. The GR is great for zonefocusing but I generally find the AF a little slow and sometimes it misses under even fairly easy conditions.

Best of luck!
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Old 02-09-2017   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kj_ View Post
They're both great cameras but with different strengths. X100S/T/F definitely have better AF than the GR in my experience. The GR is great for zonefocusing but I generally find the AF a little slow and sometimes it misses under even fairly easy conditions.

Best of luck!
I've had a completely different experience. The S model is slower in AF than the GR by far...at least in good light. In low light, they both suck. And you've tried the F already? Lucky you.
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Ricoh GR
Old 02-09-2017   #14
conyon
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Ricoh GR

Quote:
Originally Posted by bushwick1234;2694967
"I don't see any reason for this camera [Ricoh GR
,
If I want a small take-everywhere camera, I prefer my iPhone 5."
Ricoh GR and GRII are ergonomically impressive. It'll fit into your pocket easily. In that sense its an 'every day carry'. The camera is very customizable, too. Ricoh is famous for its snap-focus feature that pre-focuses the lens to a user desired distance. This is a bonus for street-work, if that is useful to you.

The lens is very much admired. Sharp, and I believe non-AA filter. See diglloyd.com, who can be tough on his reviewed cameras, or MingThein as someone who is serious too about evaluating pros/cons of equipment.

Drawbacks - 'the dust issue'. Many have reported dust gets in at some point. The fora discussing this will give examples at f10 shot at blue sky. Its there, but it might not be practically relevant. The Ricoh DPreview forum has a lot on this....

The GR and GRII are largely similar for practical purposes in terms of photo-output. The GR-II has a bigger buffer I think, shoots a bit faster, and has some b/w effects that are liked.

Lastly, there is a discussion that Ricoh might introduce a new version this year -- I think this is predicated on past-being-prologue in terms of product cycle upgrades rather than hard-evidence.
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Old 02-09-2017   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
I've had a completely different experience. The S model is slower in AF than the GR by far...at least in good light. In low light, they both suck....
I haven't noticed any significant difference in AF between the X100S and the GRII. If anything, the Fuji is a little faster. Maybe it's individual sample differences, I dunno. Both have been accurate and pretty darn fast, faster than I can manually focus for sure. I don't recall ever missing a shot due to AF on either camera. Neither are worth a damn in continuous tracking but that's not what I use them for.
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Old 02-09-2017   #16
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Not directly relevant but I bought a Fuji XE-2 with a 28mm lens for a trip after previously traveling with a Ricoh GR. I ended up hating the Fuji and selling shortly there after.

I felt like I was always fighting it's metering system no matter what mode it was in and ended up just shooting in manual and ignoring the meter. While it offered more control shot to shot, ultimately I think the GR is a better travel camera and gives better results. It's much more of a point and shoot experience but it brings home the goods.

The half press autofocus/full press Snap (forget what it's called in settings) gives you the best of both worlds where you can mash the shutter to get a prefocused distance for a quick pic or half press for more focus control.

It feels like you are doing less but the photos are impressive and metering and focus both work very well. With the older pre-APS-C GRs I used to shoot JPEGs but wit the GR and GR II you really want to shoot RAW to get the full performance of the sensor.
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Old 02-09-2017   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogman View Post
I haven't noticed any significant difference in AF between the X100S and the GRII. If anything, the Fuji is a little faster. Maybe it's individual sample differences, I dunno. Both have been accurate and pretty darn fast, faster than I can manually focus for sure. I don't recall ever missing a shot due to AF on either camera. Neither are worth a damn in continuous tracking but that's not what I use them for.
Yeah, it also might come down to differences in shooting styles. Not everyone photographs the same things the same way.
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Old 02-09-2017   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
Finder????
The X100T has the small part of the viewfinder in the lower right corner that has a projection of the AF point, or the center of the pic with the anticipated exposure.
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Old 02-09-2017   #19
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I've owned the X100S and the Ricoh GR. There are several differences I noticed while using both cameras. Optical viewfinder/EVF vs. LCD (or you can spend $100-$200 for an optical viewfinder for the GR), 35mm vs 28mm, menu system, and portability. I preferred using the GR with an optical viewfinder and using snap focus. If focus is critical then I'll just turn on the LCD screen and focus on my subject and take the picture. I think that the GR's menu system is more intuitive and straight forward, however I'm sure there are people that feel the opposite and prefer the Fuji. I also prefer 28mm field of view to 35mm. While I had both cameras, I had to make myself use the Fuji over the Ricoh. With that said, I kept the GR and sold the Fuji and am looking forward to whichever new GR that Ricoh comes out with.

Also, if portability is a concern the X100/S/T/F is a substantially larger camera than the GR. The GR is genuinely a pocketable camera. The GR is just the perfect little camera for street/travel photography. I love the snap focus feature and I wish other manufacturers would incorporate something like that into their cameras.

Nothing makes one of the cameras objectively better than the other. They're just different tools. The GR is the tool I use.
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Old 02-09-2017   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nightfly View Post
... It's much more of a point and shoot experience but it brings home the goods. ...
Nicely put

The 28mm lens is, of course, fixed. I think the Fuji XE2 with the 35mm f2 is a good compact combo for the 50mm (ish) focal length. But that is a more deliberate & purposeful decision to be carrying a camera --- even when traveling...

Last edited by conyon : 02-09-2017 at 06:58. Reason: grammar!
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Old 02-09-2017   #21
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GR II is my first and only candidate to replace small 8MP fast Leica zoom equipped Lumix, which I use mostly on the W set of the lens. This little Lumix has strange behavioral pattern for years. From time to time it just disappears and I can't find it. It went into this stage few weeks ago again...

Here is one picture thread for GR:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/foru...d.php?t=147833
And even more massive:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/foru...d.php?t=136553
I'm finding myself in these two threads often to please my eyes. This thread and links in it was also very helpful to understand GR phenomenon better:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/foru...d.php?t=158510

It will be interesting to read what Lukitas has to say about GR, because he is using it for serious photography (available for view in the RFF Gallery) in addition for some Fuji cameras as well.
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Old 02-09-2017   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anselwannab View Post
The X100T has the small part of the viewfinder in the lower right corner that has a projection of the AF point, or the center of the pic with the anticipated exposure.
Oh ok, that's more of a software thing (focusing aid) than VF hardware thing.
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Old 02-09-2017   #23
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I owned both at the same time. Can't go wrong. It comes down to personal need.
The vf on the X100 eliminated my need to put on glasses to properly compose and focus.
Long live the viewfinder
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Old 02-09-2017   #24
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I had a look at the gallery images and the GR looks very tempting... Thanks for all the information.
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Old 02-09-2017   #25
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I ve got the x100t and the gr with wide and tele converters, they compliment each other so well for my style of shooting and i plan to never go more tele than 50mm equivalent.
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Old 02-09-2017   #26
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Hi, Kaniel! I'm sorry I could not be of more help, but as another ancient Lumix user I would like to quote CameraDecision:

"Ricoh GR II has a higher Overall Score than the Panasonic GF1. It also has more features, more compact body and offers higher value for the money. But there is one area that GR II trails behind the GF1: Imaging.
If image quality is the most important aspect in a camera, choose the Panasonic GF1. If not, we recommend the Ricoh GR II."

http://cameradecision.com/compare/Ri...-Lumix-DMC-GF1
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Old 02-09-2017   #27
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If you learn to use snap-focus on the GR it's super fast! The GR is my all time favorite digital camera and i have owned Leica M9, fuji x100, x100s and x100t.

I wrote a bit about it with som sample images here:

http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2017/0...kard-landberg/
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Old 02-09-2017   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
Finder????
Viewfinder?
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Old 02-09-2017   #29
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Mr Rockwell can be a bit of a plonker.
I use both the GR and a Fuji XE2. The XE2 with a summitar for portraits, and the GR for everything else. The Ricoh is ergonomic perfection. I put it in TAV, set the speed with the back wheel, the aperture with the front one, all with one hand. Focus speed is as fast as I need it to be. Wonderful camera.
The XE2, in comparison, is more demanding. But it has a viewfinder, which requires it's own set of controls - to save battery, I put it to viewfinder only, when the eye is put to the finder, but I want to be able to quickly show a picture to a subject, so I mapped the viewfinder options to the AE button, and then I tend to graze that button with my nose. The fuji surprises me with unexpected settings more often than the Ricoh.

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Old 02-09-2017   #30
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I am pretty sure that these CameraDecision comparative "reviews" are algorithmically generated, and I would not use them for anything other than a convenient side by side comparison of technical specs. In particular I think the "Imaging" value ascribed to each camera is a qualitative score that was assigned as of the time of original release of each camera, and is not updated as technology and standards improve over time. The GF1 is like 5 years older than the Ricoh GR II, with a smaller sensor from an earlier generation; while the GF1 can produce very nice images under the right conditions, there is no planet on which its general image quality is "better" than the GR II with a comparable lens (I own the GF1 and the GR). For starters, the GR is higher resolution and performs significantly better at high ISOs. That old 12 MP Panasonic sensor has problems after about ISO 400.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dotur View Post
Hi, Kaniel! I'm sorry I could not be of more help, but as another ancient Lumix user I would like to quote CameraDecision:

"Ricoh GR II has a higher Overall Score than the Panasonic GF1. It also has more features, more compact body and offers higher value for the money. But there is one area that GR II trails behind the GF1: Imaging.
If image quality is the most important aspect in a camera, choose the Panasonic GF1. If not, we recommend the Ricoh GR II."

http://cameradecision.com/compare/Ri...-Lumix-DMC-GF1
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Old 02-09-2017   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leo mm View Post
I am pretty sure that these CameraDecision comparative "reviews" are algorithmically generated, and I would not use them for anything other than a convenient side by side comparison of technical specs. In particular I think the "Imaging" value ascribed to each camera is a qualitative score that was assigned as of the time of original release of each camera, and is not updated as technology and standards improve over time. The GF1 is like 5 years older than the Ricoh GR II, with a smaller sensor from an earlier generation
You are right, of course. I was just kidding Kaniel . According to CameraDecision, algorithm dynamically scores cameras using 63 different specs, current price and DxO Mark scores (where possible) in order to make a more objective and consistent comparison. Still, a question of the "Imaging" value remains: are the nowadays images really so much better than 5 years ago, objectively speaking? They ought to be, to justify our G.A.S.
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Old 02-10-2017   #32
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Quote:
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Viewfinder?
The hardware finder is the same in these models. But the other poster explained that you may have meant software differences? But come to think of it, the EVF is probably better res.
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Old 02-12-2017   #33
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Thanks for all the great input! Much appreciated.
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