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Old 11-14-2016   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
Yes, we will... but they will not be as elegant or as cheap as their film counterparts. I think the Sony RX1R MKII shows that it is possible.
I think we also look at those elegant premium compact cameras with some sort of nostalgia and romanticisation. Of course, they were/are fascinating and some amazingly beautiful cameras, but some of the modern digital cameras also look pretty good and offer a more thn decent photography experience ...
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Old 11-14-2016   #42
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Originally Posted by splitimageview View Post
Define 'luxury.'
Soup kitchen on a friday night for the homeless?
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Old 11-14-2016   #43
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How about the Pen F Oly ?

Small, metal construction, hi-tech, excellent optics, price hmmm....

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Old 11-14-2016   #44
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I think you guys keep missing the OP's criteria... "Will there ever be a digital T3, with pocketable titanium body, full frame sensor and great lens?"
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Old 11-14-2016   #45
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"If you build it, they will spend."
There will always be people with more money and ego than brains.
The ones who don't wear "watches", but rather "timepieces", and don't drive "cars", but instead "automobiles", and so on.
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Old 11-14-2016   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
I think you guys keep missing the OP's criteria... "Will there ever be a digital T3, with pocketable titanium body, full frame sensor and great lens?"
Fair point, but I don't think a camera needs to be a "luxury" camera to be full frame.

I'm waiting for the pocketable full frame digital compact. We took full frame for granted in the film days, because mostly it was. But now digital has problems scaling to the small end.

I don't care about the titanium body or Ostrich Leather surfaces, or a fancy name or a wood grip or a polished-amber shutter button. A FF pocket digital camera would be a wonderful thing.

Here's the reason why a Pocket FF is probably not on the top of any manufacturer's list though:

Back in the film days, negative size was directly linked to print size. You needed 35mm negatives to get 4x6's back of good quality from the printers. But with digital sensors, the native format of the sensor doesn't matter, as far as getting your pictures printed, or uploaded, or whatever.
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Old 11-14-2016   #47
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The Leica X, X2, Q, Ricoh GR-D, Sony R1, and a few others like them are today's "luxury compacts".

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Old 11-15-2016   #48
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Originally Posted by unixrevolution View Post
Fair point, but I don't think a camera needs to be a "luxury" camera to be full frame.
Nobody said they needed to be. The OP was referencing FF cameras like the Contax T2 or T3, the Nikon 28 / 35Ti, and the Leica Minilux. They were a new type of camera when released (I know, I bought them when released) and were certainly luxury compacts when released. The OP is just hoping to see something similar in the FF compact realm. Right now, there is only one FF compact that fits the bill and it is $4000... the Sony RX1R II. It certainly is a luxury camera, but does not feel like one.
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Old 11-15-2016   #49
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Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
Nobody said they needed to be. The OP was referencing FF cameras like the Contax T2 or T3, the Nikon 28 / 35Ti, and the Leica Minilux. They were a new type of camera when released (I know, I bought them when released) and were certainly luxury compacts when released. The OP is just hoping to see something similar in the FF compact realm. Right now, there is only one FF compact that fits the bill and it is $4000... the Sony RX1R II. It certainly is a luxury camera, but does not feel like one.
Thank you for understanding my criteria. The RX1r II is currently the closest thing to what I'm hoping to see in the future, and you're right in that it is a luxury camera but doesn't feel like one. I'm not after ostrich feathers or a Patagonian vole skin half case. I would love to see a full frame, pocketable camera that is gorgeously designed and built to last.

Leica are the most likely to make something like this. Ironically, Sony are the second most likely.

Oly/Pana are fully invested in micro four thirds sensors and are unlikely to venture out of that field in the forseeable future. Nikon had a crack at an aps-c compact with the Coolpix A, which was quietly discontinued and nothing more heard. Canon are firmly entrenched in protecting their established lines, and only innovate in response to heavy market demand. Ricoh make two or three cameras, with only one aimed at photographers. Sigma is smoking crack with their Quattro body designs.

I'm about to go out now with a Contax T3 in the bag alongside the Sigma DP2. Dream time.
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Old 11-15-2016   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
I think you guys keep missing the OP's criteria... "Will there ever be a digital T3, with pocketable titanium body, full frame sensor and great lens?"


I can't believe that, considering the amount of time you have been at RFF, you would assume that a thread could possibly stay entirely on topic.

This ain't the national library old mate!
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Old 11-15-2016   #51
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CMIIW, a Luxury compact in digital era :
1. Full frame sensor
2. Pocketable
3. 16-24MP (or more)
4. Titanium Body (do we really need this metal?)
5. Price more than $1500
6. Incredible lens (compare to other compacts)
7. feel free to add other parameter...

I think Sony RX1 and Leica Q (you can insert this camera to jacket or cargo pants pocket) can be considered as Luxury compact camera.


The second line (APSc) are : Sigma DP series, Sony RX100, Ricoh GR, FujiX70, Leica T.

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Old 11-15-2016   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
Nobody said they needed to be. The OP was referencing FF cameras like the Contax T2 or T3, the Nikon 28 / 35Ti, and the Leica Minilux. They were a new type of camera when released (I know, I bought them when released) and were certainly luxury compacts when released. The OP is just hoping to see something similar in the FF compact realm. Right now, there is only one FF compact that fits the bill and it is $4000... the Sony RX1R II. It certainly is a luxury camera, but does not feel like one.
jus needs a little TLC

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Old 11-16-2016   #53
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jus needs a little TLC

Are you sure that's TLC?
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Old 11-16-2016   #54
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I don't think it's so much a matter of criteria but one of definition.

Try as I may I can't see a decent lens and so on as a luxury. To me luxury will always be something added that's not needed except for showing off or wasting money.

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Old 11-16-2016   #55
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Try as I may I can't see a decent lens and so on as a luxury. To me luxury will always be something added that's not needed except for showing off or wasting money.
While I do agree with the logic landing on the RX1, I also do see merit with your point. To that end, I would overlook the Hasselblad Stellar and shoot for the Moon! Have you seen the prices asked (keyword) for a used Lunar???
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Old 11-16-2016   #56
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Luxury can mean different things, and have negative connotations. But the OP is talking in terms of Luxury=very high quality and finish.

So the M240 in those terms is a luxury camera, though not a compact, and neither in my mind is the Leica Q compact, except in relation to bigger cameras. The Q does not easily fit in many pockets.

As to the RX1rii:

The perfect should not be the enemy of the good. It is an incredible camera. Period. It is the best compact camera ever made by anyone bar none. In fact there is nothing else remotely close. It has probably the sweetest 35 lens ever made. I have 6 35s. 4 for the M9 and 2 great famous SLR 35s. None I prefer to this one. And close focus is 14cm. You are not going to do that with an 8 element cron v1 LOL, not that would not like a copy of that lens

Yes the MF could be done better, and it should be weather proof, and the lens is stupidly large in outside diameter, and the batteries are eaten like popcorn. It is not perfect.

But it is way beyond good.

No edit here from uncompressed RAW ISO 6400 and no noise reduction.

DSC00801 by unoh7, on Flickr

The files are huge like 80mb. The payoff is unbelievable ability to deal with highlights and shadows. I've never seen anything like it.

I was struggling with using the various AF modes and methods and getting input on how to use them. Jeff Kott at FM came to the rescue and boiled it down:

"I have a very simplistic approach to focusing my RX1Rii.

If I'm going to be shooting people, focus area is set to wide with Face Detect on with continuous AF. Done.

AEL button is set to Eye AF and when I'm at portrait distance I use Eye AF. If it can't lock on an eye, it defaults to Face Detect.

For shots without people, I use AF-S, flexible spot medium for all distances short of infinity. For infinity, I switch to Manual Focus and use focus magnification to nail infinity focus.

That's it. "

5 days in, with Jeff and other's help the RX1rii is much more fun to use, and absolutely deadly. There is no better digital 35 at any size, let alone a compact, in terms of image quality.

My hair dresser snapped this, using Jeff's method:

DSC00758-2 by unoh7, on Flickr

Could the RX1rii be better? What camera could not, and especially, what ground breaking camera could not?

For all the imperfections, this is the real thing, and the only digital "real thing" in compact form. Take a lesson, Leica. Improve it.

Barnack would have one of these, were he alive today, I promise you.

Oh, and did I mention: you cannot hear the shutter? That and it's very small size means the camera is disarming to it's subjects who have no idea the amount of technology pointed at them

I sort of wish all this were not the case, as I must return the camera at some point and do not have the money for one.

It's a luxury I can't afford
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Old 11-19-2016   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uhoh7 View Post
Luxury can mean different things, and have negative connotations. But the OP is talking in terms of Luxury=very high quality and finish...
Hi,

Well, yes and no.

Lots of words have different meanings but I think that the context is what decides the meanings. And here we are talking about a tool used for a specific job.

So if the tool does the job it's OK and if it's gold plated and encrusted with diamond and emeralds it's the silly luxury version.

The trouble is that some equate luxury with expensive and so the wicked shopkeepers encourage them and others equate luxury with doing the job properly when compared with the mass market version of the tool/camera.

I'm quite happy with a lens that produces an accurate image without any distortion, I don't call that luxury but a lot do. Perhaps we should say properly designed and made instead of luxury and second rate instead of normal quality.

But that's just my 2d worth.

Regards, David
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Old 11-20-2016   #58
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Hi,

Hours after the above post I'm walking, with a camera, by the river for my daily exercise and realised that a lot of makers see a lens hood as a frivolous and unnecessary accessory; they could easily give you one with the camera and it wouldn't cost the earth as they could buy them from the Chinese who can sell them at a profit and including postage worldwide for a pound or so. (The camera I'm thinking of cost hundreds new.)

And why do they (the makers) also regard them as a luxury and so think it OK to charge a small fortune for a weirdly non-standard lens hood but won't supply a suitable case with it, nor a case for the camera and lens hood?

CZ Jena solved that problem decades ago with the Werra...

Not exactly joined up thinking is it?

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Old 11-21-2016   #59
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Will there ever be a digital T3, with pocketable titanium body, full frame sensor and great lens?
In 2002 there was a pocketable Contax TVS digital with titanium body and sapphire release-button. Small 5mp 1/1.8" sensor of course, which was standard among the good compact cameras back then.
Almost crazy priced when it was new. "Street price for the Titanium silver body is $999.95; street price for the Titanium black body is $1,099.95 and is available beginning April 2003"
http://imaging-resource.com/EVENTS/P...046571849.html
But it was a superb little compact back then even if the reviews didn't give it creds for good user interface and good iso performance. For most of the time I've found iso 320, which is the next highest value, to be fully useable in low light. Sure it is a little grainy but it is not looking bad.

I bought my used a couple of years ago. Still using it even though I have a Leica X1 as well.
The X1, X2 and X-E which all uses the same 35mm lens is so far what I guess comes closest to a digital T3 so far in terms of size. Sure there is Fujifilm X100 series which have viewfinder but it is not quite as small as the X1.
These are not full frame and I really wonder which of the manufacturers which are going to be first with a reasonably small 35mm ff. It won't exactly be pocketable but not as big as Sony RX1.
As for Aps-c 28mm GR, Coolpix A and X70, a large biggest aperture is not a must for everyone.
As for Nikon I guess they burned their own interest a little by price the Coolpix A too high initially and it is not very likely that we will see a Coolpix A with 35mm. That's unfortunate as I believe there is room for a small aps-c 35mm compact as well.

Ricoh GR is pretty much stuck with 28mm and have been so for years. The only exceptions there is the GR21, the 40mm adapter lens for Ricoh GR digital I and II as for the 21mm adapter lenses which I believe is available for all digital GRD's and aps-c GR.
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