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Old 04-11-2013   #41
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i'm an equal opportunity bagger...i like the domkes, think tanks etc.
the L2 just happens to have what i want...no zippers, no velcro, no faux buckles...and enough room for a small day kit.
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Old 04-11-2013   #42
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The F-803 is very nice too, Mekko also sells it (100% identical to the Domke, same difference re. the strap buckles - metal on the Mekko, plastic on the Domke - but less expensive, and with very well made inserts included).

Yet - I wouldn't own any black photo bag any longer since I left the one which I had next to me on a bench once on a very sunny summer day. Because of the black color the inner bag temperature went very high and some focusing helical grease melted and separated and ran onto the aperture blades of one of my Nikon RF lenses.

Just wear some black thick cotton clothes in the plain summer on a very sunny day and you'll all get the idea.

Clear colors only (tan, sand, light khaki at the very most) for photo bags !
I'm sorry to hear about your lens trouble with the black bag. You are correct dark colors do retain heat. It also reminds me of the time I sent a 35mm summicron V.4 lens in for a serious repair, and the shop failed to clean the oil off the blades. I have a lot of $$$$ in that lens. That shop is now gone, and I have moved on to better places.

I suggested black because only because I think it is a popular color for camera bags. I carry my Canon F-1s in a black Domke F-2.

The post did not reveal the OP's location. Any light bag might look out of place in some climates.

I did fail to mention my F-803 is SAND color as I bought it for use in our hot Ohio summers where I do wear light clothing most of the time.
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Old 04-11-2013   #43
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Where does your iPad fit ?.
iPad 4 or Mini ?
i pad mini fits perfectly in the back slot...the insert is sewn in but only at the corners so there is a slot behind and 2 slots on the sides that fit sd card safes, one at each end.
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Old 04-11-2013   #44
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Roger : go to, say, Paris (let's exclude Barcelona, Marseille or Rome on purpose). Then have some coffee (or tea, or beer ) outside, and leave your (empty) Billingham bag on the next chair (don't forget to lock it to something secure !) ; then, look around carefully, and open your ears.
Ah Paris, I've even seen people attempt to steal multiple times when I was there... many scams, pickpockets, purse grabs, etc. Luckily each one the people were smart enough to not get robbed.
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Old 04-11-2013   #45
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i was kidding...i never have had problems walking in nyc...'i pity the fool'...
and remember bagfest 2013!
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Old 04-11-2013   #46
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Of course. There is NYC, and the rest of the world...

Roger : go to, say, Paris (let's exclude Barcelona, Marseille or Rome on purpose). Then have some coffee (or tea, or beer ) outside, and leave your (empty) Billingham bag on the next chair (don't forget to lock it to something secure !) ; then, look around carefully, and open your ears.
. . . I have many friends owning Billinghams and I also trust in what they honestly reported to me. . . .
No, I really think that in Paris, in the wrong places, they don't give a toss whether it's Billingham, Fogg or anything else. Look at it this way: if it's nickable, they'll nick it. Frances's wallet was NOT stolen from a Billingham in Paris 25 years ago. Billingham owners are a self-selecting and highly visible minority. How many are going to say, "Someone grabbed my Ying-Tong Iddle-i-Po bag"?

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Old 04-11-2013   #47
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Ah Paris, I've even seen people attempt to steal multiple times when I was there... many scams, pickpockets, purse grabs, etc. Luckily each one the people were smart enough to not get robbed.
Exactly. It's opportunism, not brand awareness. Alarming thought: are Billingham owners more careless/stupid than anyone else on the Metro?

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R.
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Old 04-11-2013   #48
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A cool solution are army bags for cheap, some velcro straps and padding, either self made or pre manufactured. If you got some connections to people savvy with sewing the better. Add some badges to taste and done.
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Old 04-11-2013   #49
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I travel a lot for my job and get to Europe quite often. IMO those that look like tourists are who the bandits are attracted to. Plus tourists look like tourists, especially Americans. I'm embarrassed sometimes to see how we Americans dress when we travel.

This past summer in Europe and with a coworker (dressed like an American) more than one time he was specifically being watched. In fact two came on the subway right behind him and when they couldn't get his wallet they were back off before the doors closed.

I always carry my bag across my chest and I keep at minimum a ID, credit card and cash in a front pocket. I do my best not to look out of place but its not entirely possible.

But then I normally carry my BBB not my Billingham Combination bag when on the road.
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Old 04-11-2013   #50
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[...] I'm embarrassed sometimes to see how we Americans dress when we travel. [...]
Just a question, how do Americans look when they travel and what is embarrassing about it (slightly OT though) .
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Old 04-11-2013   #51
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the Mekkos are nice, indeed.

And my FOGG contains two Nikons, no matter what it screams
Was gonna say .. Billy may scream Leica, but my Oly E-1 fits beautifully in the L2.

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Old 04-11-2013   #52
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Just a question, how do Americans look when they travel and what is embarrassing about it (slightly OT though) .
Bright white tennis shoes, baseball hats that say I love NY or anything else, goofy shorts to Hawaiian shirts to cover their 150 pounds of over weight belly sticking out. That's just for starters.
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Old 04-11-2013   #53
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i like tourist shirts...especially at home!
i like when people stare...
hate white shoes...
really like baseball hats...mine says 'back alley' on it...and having lost 53 pounds recently i am only 37 pounds over my goal weight...
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Old 04-11-2013   #54
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i like tourist shirts...especially at home!
i like when people stare...
hate white shoes...
really like baseball hats...mine says 'back alley' on it...and having lost 53 pounds recently i am only 37 pounds over my goal weight...
Sorry didn't mean to offend anyone but .... sometimes there's attitude that goes with the appearance too that doesn't help.....

.....So as I continue to dig a big hole for myself I think I will just slither away from this one and learn to keep my mouth shut.
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Old 04-11-2013   #55
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Sorry didn't mean to offend anyone but .... sometimes there's attitude that goes with the appearance too that doesn't help.....

.....So as I continue to dig a big hole for myself I think I will just slither away from this one and learn to keep my mouth shut.
not offended at all!
sorry if that's what i presented...
for some reason i like really ugly shirts...i think they offend some folks though...
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Old 04-11-2013   #56
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Somehow, I just don't get it about bag brands being a problem. With computers, smartphones, tablets and all manners of things in most people purses and bags, thieves are only looking for something to steal. If they can make a dime, who cares what is in the bag and face it, almost everyone carrying a bag have valuables of some kind in them!

Is a Billingham identifiable as a "Leica" bag? I doubt it. It's good looks may attract some eyes just as a nice purse carried by the ladies but I venture to guess that any bag is fair game on the street.

And I still don't believe in black tape over a camera's logo either. If I did, I would probably put black tape over the Smith and Wesson logo!
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Old 04-11-2013   #57
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maybe i should use an old domke for my new york trip instead of my new billingham!

where does think tank fit into the robber mind set?
I'd steal a Think Tank if I were a crook.

Seriously, last time I was in NYC it seemed safer than when I went there in the late 1970's. Use common sense you should be fine.
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Old 04-11-2013   #58
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get a Hadley Small. it's a fantastic bag. great size, will fit your gear nicely. I used mine with an M4 + Nokton 35/1.2, plus a 50 and a 21 in the insert. and on the other insert, an umbrella (quite short one, great stuff). compact (RX100) on the right front pocket. i hope the person who buys it from the guy who stole it from me has a great time with it :/
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Old 04-11-2013   #59
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Hi, I have been eyeing for a Billingham bag for a while now but still couldn't convince myself to spend so much on a bag, especially since I am still a college student with no substantial income. I have been looking around for similarly styled bags. Most of them, albeit great looking, are made in China. I have heard bad things about quality of these Chinese bags.

I have an M4 and two lenses. With the hood the camera gets pretty long. Any suggestions on what I could get under $100?
Take a look at the Domke F6 ($85-95 depending on color) or the Domke F8 ($80) at www.bhphotovideo.com

Billinghams are the way to go if you have the extra cash, but Domkes are great camera bags at fair prices.

You could do a lot worse than a Domke.
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Old 04-11-2013   #60
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For what you are using get a think tank smaller model runs about $125. That is what I use for that combo and it can hold more if necessary. If you have the money t spend then get the Billingham but there is too much emphasis on camera bags. For years I used the cheapest that I could find and they lasted longer than I thought they would. Remember cheap ugly bags do not attract attention.
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Old 04-12-2013   #61
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If you want a Billingham Hadley design "satchel" bag, and don't want to spend a lot of money, there's the Lowepro Event Messenger 100 for about $50. It's very nice quality and a good design.

Lowepro Event Messenger 100 - $50 at B&H Photo

They have a larger model as well.

For a bag of this design, I had the Hadley Pro and found it fantastic, but have since sold it and now use a Black Label Bag "Oskar's One Day Mark II" from The Photo Village in New York City. It's a development on the A&A ACAM 7100, a little nice in my opinion, and holds a bit more than the Hadley Pro while being a little more compact and of comparable quality overall. However, it's a $200 bag ... if I was trying to keep costs down, I'd buy the Lowepro in a moment.

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Old 04-12-2013   #62
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Is a Billingham identifiable as a "Leica" bag? I doubt it.
Come on, since 95% of Leica nuts wouldn't carry their Leica gear in something else, a Billingham is now perfectly identifiable as a "Leica bag". Just visit some Leica stores and some Leica forums to check by yourself.

As said above, that wasn't the case thirty years ago, but nowadays, it is.

Just a fact - with no value judgment.

So to end-up here as for my own remarks : Domke, Mekko, ThinkTank (and EastPak which we all forget : they make some excellent satchel messenger canvas bags too) : plenty of choice around for VGQ bags under $100, which is what the "college student with no substantial income" OP asked for.
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Old 04-12-2013   #63
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99% of thieves would not know what a Leica was if you handed it to them. All they see when they see a camera or a stylish bag is a $10-$20 bill. Or maybe a wallet or purse inside it with some cash in it.

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Old 04-12-2013   #64
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Fantastic, awesome!! http://www.onabags.com/store/small-g...-tan#field-tan
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Old 04-12-2013   #65
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99% of thieves would not know what a Leica was if you handed it to them. All they see when they see a camera or a stylish bag is a $10-$20 bill. Or maybe a wallet or purse inside it with some cash in it.
I can't help being surprised with how "rousseauists" you all are.

I'm not arguing but thieves are not all decerebrated crack addicts.
Some know very well what this and that are, what they cost new, and for how much they could re-sell on the black market.
And Leica gear is on the list, especially since the release of the M digital bodies and the recent lenses.

So - my point is that, nowadays, a Billingham bag is the best visible clue which tells "Hey, expensive Leica gear inside". Hence my remarks.
But by no means am I trying to say that carrying a Billy will automatically lead you to being robbered. And I know that some folks carry something else than Leica gear in their Billies.

Let's not see it in black and white, but rather in fifty shades of grey.

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Fantastic, awesome ! (link)
What ? Why the hell don't the ad photos display some Lomos or Holgas inside those things ?

And now for something (click) Joe must not look at.
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Old 04-12-2013   #66
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I can't help being surprised with how "rousseauists" you all are.

I'm not arguing but thieves are not all decerebrated crack addicts.
Some know very well what this and that are, what they cost new, and for how much they could re-sell on the black market.
That's the other 1%.
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Old 04-12-2013   #67
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Looks nice! And a pretty reasonable price too.

G
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Old 04-12-2013   #68
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Haha ! Now Fogg bags.

If there was something even screaming "$$$$ Leica photo gear inside !" louder and wider than the Billinghams, the Fogg bags sure were.


While you're right that Fogg bags can be a bit shrill--and looking at the prices of new ones can definitely cause you to emit an involuntary shriek--my Celia is quite petite...and stealthy. Here she is:



Like I said, I paid £40 for it (about 65 bucks at the time). The camera shop proprietor told me that, brand new, it would have retailed for over £200. I don't find that hard to believe at all, based on their current prices.

I gotta say, those ONA bags look classy and well-made. The price seems excellent, too, and they're just right the right size for taking a Leica on the street. Definitely something to consider!
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Old 04-12-2013   #69
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Just a question, how do Americans look when they travel and what is embarrassing about it (slightly OT though) .
Long ago I sat in a pub in Germany and asked this same question of a Dutch cyclist. His perception of America women was that "They are a little bit fat, and they giggle a lot".
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Old 04-12-2013   #70
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Bright white tennis shoes, baseball hats that say I love NY or anything else, goofy shorts to Hawaiian shirts to cover their 150 pounds of over weight belly sticking out. That's just for starters.
All right, those are cartoon American tourists, and they certainly exist. But there are also subtler clues sometimes, and I'm not sure what they are. I'm British; my wife is American; we live in France; and sometimes we'll ask one another why a particular person (or more likely, couple) looks American or British. We have yet to come up with any convincing answers. My suspicion in many cases is that even if you can't hear what they're saying, you can hear the tone of voice.

Frances suggests that with women, make-up styles have national characteristics too, and that quite often with American women, this is combined with a look of wide-eyed innocence or perhaps surprise.

This is not quite the same as the generic international tourist 'stunned herring' look resulting from a cocktail of jet-lag, culture shock and an over-ambitious sightseeing schedule. ANY nationality can fall prey to this one -- and would, I think, be prize targets for that tiny percentage of thieves who do recognize Billingham bags and Leicas.

As the techniques for avoiding thieves are the same whether you're carrying a Billingham or a gas-mask bag and as there are far more opportunist thieves than skilled ones, I really don't see that carrying a Billingham is an invitation to be robbed. If I did, I wouldn't do it.

Cheers,

R.
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Old 04-12-2013   #71
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seriously, guys, ive been mugged this monday downtown sao paulo with a friend from work by 3 guys with knives, probably addicts. one of them noticed me taking my m4 from my hadley small, taking a shot, putting it back. noticed my friend on her iphone. he doesnt have a clue on what is a leica or the brand of the bag. they just see it as something they can trade for drugs, period.

it wouldnt have made ANY difference if i was shooting with a bessa-r or an m9, if i had a billingham or a $10 bag, it would be stolen anyway due to the opportunity. i've used the hadley small for about 2 years before this has happened, prior to it i had a domke f6 (bought one again recently btw, i love how you can pack an absurd amount of things inside it). on monday a crazy lady at the bus terminal told me "piss off, reporter, no pictures of me!". i think the billingham might have helped in that sense, or maybe it was the glasses, the beard, the hairdo, the clothes i was wearing... i dont know. the billingham sure does look fancy. might be something to consider, but i dont think its a decisive factor. i wish someone could make a billingham in all canvas, sort of, and in dull colours to look cheap. i like the build of the billinghams, how they feel robust. the domke doesnt protect my stuff as much, i think, from eventual bumps. but ive used it for a couple years with no problems whatsoever.

i've learned a few things from the ****ty experience of monday:
- have everything insured. it will be relieving, you wont do anything stupid by impulse, you keep safe (hopefully) and everything can be re-bought.
- the way you behave and act are more important than believing taping a camera logo will make it less appealing to being robbed - it wont, it will just maybe put off people from those "wow you have a leica" comments
- have your gear tagged somehow to ease identification in case it shows up somewhere. leicas are not common and the market is not that big, eventually these might pop up somewhere. but there is always the chance they opened the bag, found an "old camera that is worth nothing" and just bashed it agains a wall, pissed off by the unsuccess of the robbery - as a photographer friend of mine told me yesterday he has already seen (two kids hammering an M3 into a wall downtown).

also, i wonder if there is any service/product/device you can leave in your bag in a sort of hidden place to track it down via gps, if i had one i could have followed the guy and found a police officer in the way. it was near a subway entrance so he could have gotten anywhere within minutes of the robbery. im thinking of maybe having a cheap smartphone with a gps on, connected to a tracking service, and with the ringer on the loudest volume possible. might be onto something here. they can always ditch the bag but who knows, could be something useful to track it right afterwards and sound the ringer, they might ditch the bag to get rid of the attention.
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Old 04-12-2013   #72
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All right, those are cartoon American tourists, and they certainly exist. But there are also subtler clues sometimes, and I'm not sure what they are. I'm British; my wife is American; we live in France; and sometimes we'll ask one another why a particular person (or more likely, couple) looks American or British. We have yet to come up with any convincing answers. My suspicion in many cases is that even if you can't hear what they're saying, you can hear the tone of voice.

Frances suggests that with women, make-up styles have national characteristics too, and that quite often with American women, this is combined with a look of wide-eyed innocence or perhaps surprise.

This is not quite the same as the generic international tourist 'stunned herring' look resulting from a cocktail of jet-lag, culture shock and an over-ambitious sightseeing schedule. ANY nationality can fall prey to this one -- and would, I think, be prize targets for that tiny percentage of thieves who do recognize Billingham bags and Leicas.

As the techniques for avoiding thieves are the same whether you're carrying a Billingham or a gas-mask bag and as there are far more opportunist thieves than skilled ones, I really don't see that carrying a Billingham is an invitation to be robbed. If I did, I wouldn't do it.

Cheers,

R.
In the summer Greeks address me in English if my wife is with me and Greek if I'm by myself, in the winter it's all Greek ... context makes a difference I would suggest, well, that and co-ordinating the Billingham with a fanny-pack ...

... whatever that is
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Old 04-12-2013   #73
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Bright white tennis shoes, baseball hats that say I love NY or anything else, goofy shorts to Hawaiian shirts to cover their 150 pounds of over weight belly sticking out. That's just for starters.
And there is nothing wrong with dressing that way. I don't want to dress that way, but it is their choice. Weight issues? Well, America's not alone in that regard anymore. When dealing in stereotypes, sometimes you have to ask yourself if the one slinging the stereotype and being embarrassed by the way other people live is more of the problem than the person getting insulted. I'm not singling you out, because I deal with this type of judgemental behaviour too... but I'm starting to think that I may be just a snob sometimes. I have people in my family that fit your description and they are good people.... so I try to remember that. I'm speaking of appearance only, not attitude or ignorance.
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Old 04-12-2013   #74
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Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
And there is nothing wrong with dressing that way. I don't want to dress that way, but it is their choice. Weight issues? Well, America's not alone in that regard anymore. When dealing in stereotypes, sometimes you have to ask yourself if the one slinging the stereotype and being embarrassed by the way other people live is more of the problem than the person getting insulted. I'm not singling you out, because I deal with this type of judgemental behaviour too... but I'm starting to think that I may be just a snob sometimes. I have people in my family that fit your description and they are good people.... so I try to remember that. I'm speaking of appearance only, not attitude or ignorance.
I didn't mean there is something wrong with dressing that way but it a different dress attire than others that are native to the places I travel in Europe. So by dressing this way you're going to stand out in the crowd. I too have family that prefer to dress this way and carry some additional pounds and are very nice people.

But since I veered into my self dug hole all I was trying to point out was that if one did not want to get noticed was to try their best to fit in whether you have the Billingham bag or whatever other fancy camera bag may be hanging by your side.
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Old 04-12-2013   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duane Pandorf View Post
I didn't mean there is something wrong with dressing that way but it a different dress attire than others that are native to the places I travel in Europe. So by dressing this way you're going to stand out in the crowd. I too have family that prefer to dress this way and carry some additional pounds and are very nice people.

But since I veered into my self dug hole all I was trying to point out was that if one did not want to get noticed was to try their best to fit in whether you have the Billingham bag or whatever other fancy camera bag may be hanging by your side.
Fair enough... sorry for the preaching. True though... that style of dress does stand out even in NYC.
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Old 04-12-2013   #76
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The Ona Bowery bag looks like it is the bag that I have been hunting...what the Domke 5xb could have been without that darn zipper.
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Old 04-12-2013   #77
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Duane, I understand where you are coming from...it has been awhile since I was in Wales, London or whatever but I found that the worst thing about some American travellers is their mouth and their attitudes.

How many 20-40 year old loud-mouth, arrogant arseholes there were I don't know, but it made the flight back unbearable for us. We were happy enough to get a few extra bottles of vodka and sleep through it.

Now, the big question, as I agree with your general conspicuous clothing discussion...what would one wear to "fit-in" when in Paris in the summer?

I don't dress like you described but, God willing, we may be able to save up for a trip in a year or so and I was just wondering how to fit in with my Billingham Hadley Pro across my chest.
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Old 04-12-2013   #78
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Originally Posted by dc5 View Post
The Ona Bowery bag looks like it is the bag that I have been hunting...what the Domke 5xb could have been without that darn zipper.
+1 on that! I love the rugged wear 5XB but the zipper drives me crazy so I wrap the camera in a small cloth or cloth bag before putting them in the bag. Still hate that stupid logo on the front. But the bag is really wonderful! Works well with the X1 and an FE2/M3.

The Ono...just might be my next bag just for the M3 and whatever lens I wind up with.
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Old 04-12-2013   #79
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Since Billinghams are basically just glorified hunting/fishing bags, you might want look at military surplus (army bags have the same pedigree) or outdoor supply joints. I think Mr. Hicks has mentioned gas mask bags on occasion.

Similarly, I have friends who swear by Filson bags, but they're almost as expensive as Billinghams, though (mostly) made in the USA.

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Hi, I have been eyeing for a Billingham bag for a while now but still couldn't convince myself to spend so much on a bag, especially since I am still a college student with no substantial income. I have been looking around for similarly styled bags. Most of them, albeit great looking, are made in China. I have heard bad things about quality of these Chinese bags.

I have an M4 and two lenses. With the hood the camera gets pretty long. Any suggestions on what I could get under $100?
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Five a Second. Chicago's Bell & Howell Co. (cameras) announced that it would put on sale this fall the world's most expensive still camera. Its "Foton" will take five 35-mm. pictures a second, sell for $700. Bell & Howell, which has found that "families of both low and high incomes now spend over $550" for movie equipment, hopes to sell 20,000 Fotons a year.
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Old 04-12-2013   #80
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Yes, a reality check. Sorry to hear of your loss, but glad you're OK.

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Originally Posted by umcelinho View Post
seriously, guys, ive been mugged this monday downtown sao paulo with a friend from work by 3 guys with knives, probably addicts. one of them noticed me taking my m4 from my hadley small, taking a shot, putting it back. noticed my friend on her iphone. he doesnt have a clue on what is a leica or the brand of the bag. they just see it as something they can trade for drugs, period.

it wouldnt have made ANY difference if i was shooting with a bessa-r or an m9, if i had a billingham or a $10 bag, it would be stolen anyway due to the opportunity. i've used the hadley small for about 2 years before this has happened, prior to it i had a domke f6 (bought one again recently btw, i love how you can pack an absurd amount of things inside it). on monday a crazy lady at the bus terminal told me "piss off, reporter, no pictures of me!". i think the billingham might have helped in that sense, or maybe it was the glasses, the beard, the hairdo, the clothes i was wearing... i dont know. the billingham sure does look fancy. might be something to consider, but i dont think its a decisive factor. i wish someone could make a billingham in all canvas, sort of, and in dull colours to look cheap. i like the build of the billinghams, how they feel robust. the domke doesnt protect my stuff as much, i think, from eventual bumps. but ive used it for a couple years with no problems whatsoever.

i've learned a few things from the ****ty experience of monday:
- have everything insured. it will be relieving, you wont do anything stupid by impulse, you keep safe (hopefully) and everything can be re-bought.
- the way you behave and act are more important than believing taping a camera logo will make it less appealing to being robbed - it wont, it will just maybe put off people from those "wow you have a leica" comments
- have your gear tagged somehow to ease identification in case it shows up somewhere. leicas are not common and the market is not that big, eventually these might pop up somewhere. but there is always the chance they opened the bag, found an "old camera that is worth nothing" and just bashed it agains a wall, pissed off by the unsuccess of the robbery - as a photographer friend of mine told me yesterday he has already seen (two kids hammering an M3 into a wall downtown).

also, i wonder if there is any service/product/device you can leave in your bag in a sort of hidden place to track it down via gps, if i had one i could have followed the guy and found a police officer in the way. it was near a subway entrance so he could have gotten anywhere within minutes of the robbery. im thinking of maybe having a cheap smartphone with a gps on, connected to a tracking service, and with the ringer on the loudest volume possible. might be onto something here. they can always ditch the bag but who knows, could be something useful to track it right afterwards and sound the ringer, they might ditch the bag to get rid of the attention.
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Five a Second. Chicago's Bell & Howell Co. (cameras) announced that it would put on sale this fall the world's most expensive still camera. Its "Foton" will take five 35-mm. pictures a second, sell for $700. Bell & Howell, which has found that "families of both low and high incomes now spend over $550" for movie equipment, hopes to sell 20,000 Fotons a year.
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