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-   -   Fuji film price hike in the offing (http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167752)

Larry Cloetta 02-25-2019 05:04

Fuji film price hike in the offing
 
https://petapixel.com/2019/02/25/fuj...ls-day-really/

Am only posting this to enable those who like Fuji film to stock up now at what are now effectively sale prices.
All the moaning about Fuji film prices and business model has been done to death already. We get it.
But if you just want to quietly buy some Fuji film, because you like it, and get on with your life while others are braying like wounded donkeys, now is a good time.

John Lawrence 02-25-2019 06:31

Thanks for the heads-up - I hadn't seen this.

John

Ted Striker 02-25-2019 08:14

Nice head's up post. I've ordered a bunch of 400H. That's the only color film I shoot so I might as well get a bunch.

"Fujifilm’s popular Instax instant films won’t be affected by this price increase."

Not at all surprising.

brbo 02-25-2019 08:19

I wonder what that super special raw material(s) is. It forced Fuji to triple the price of films in recent years while Instax has remained unaffected.

B-9 02-25-2019 08:23

Damn! That’s steep!

X-Tra will see about 1$ price hike.
Velvia 50 will see over 5$ price hike. So 23$ a roll?!

Ted Striker 02-25-2019 08:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by brbo (Post 2871639)
I wonder what that super special raw material(s) is. It forced Fuji to triple the price of films in recent years while Instax has remained unaffected.

I'm sure it is the steep decline in film usage that is the cause of the price hike. Losing economy of scale, thus prices of raw materials go up.

Ted Striker 02-25-2019 08:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by B-9 (Post 2871641)
Damn! That’s steep!

X-Tra will see about 1$ price hike.
Velvia 50 will see over 5$ price hike. So 23$ a roll?!

I don't see how E6 survives this type of price hike. The film hardly sells as it is today. B&H always has short dated and expired E6 film for sale. Less film sold at the new prices means more price hikes and then discontinuation.

Fujifilm is singing from the same choir book. It's not a good song.

HHPhoto 02-25-2019 08:40

Some thoughts about that:
1. In the past manufacturers had to raise prices because of increased raw material costs and decreasing demand. The latter was always also mentioned by Fujifilm in their statements. But it is not said in this current statement anymore. That is a good sign!
2. Kodak and Ilford have increased prices in the last three years, Fujifilm had not. Now they have to.
3. Despite the crash in demand in the time from 2004 to 2016, lots of film prices are still cheaper than in 1999/2000, when film was at record sales if you consider inflation. That such a situation cannot be sustainable for film manufacturers in the long term is obvious.
4. The CEO of Adox has often explained that the film price level in the whole industry is much too low and not sustainable. He said film prices must be 20-30% higher to get enough revenue to invest in new machinery, maintenance and products.
5. Because of 4. and the fact that raw material price increases in the midterm affect all manufacturers generally (maybe some more, some less), it is quite likely that the other film manufacturers will follow in the future.
6. Higher prices are the much much better alternative to discontinued products.

Cheers, Jan

Archlich 02-25-2019 09:55

Curiously I seldom see Kodak announcement about film price hikes. Yet their prices do rise...

ptpdprinter 02-25-2019 09:59

I wonder at what price point film aficionados will lose their enthusiasm. I am only shooting black and white film and the prices still seem reasonable.

jawarden 02-25-2019 10:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by ptpdprinter (Post 2871659)
I wonder at what price point film aficionados will lose their enthusiasm. I am only shooting black and white film and the prices still seem reasonable.

Good question, and I imagine we're approaching that threshold for many with this announcement. But for those that love and rely on Velvia 50 for instance there just isn't anything else that delivers what it does so you have to pay to use your preferred tool.

I'm glad this announcement gives those interested some time to react and stock up.

Pioneer 02-25-2019 10:18

I still shoot a bunch of color film but usually I shoot Kodak Portra films. I just placed an order for some more Kodak Portra 800, which is pricey but certainly still affordable.

I still have a small stockpile of slide films but I have pretty much quit buying it from Fuji since they discontinued Provia 400X. I will pick up a few more rolls of Ektachrome to play with some more but my go to ISO 100 color film has become Ektar 100. Since I don't project any longer Ektar 100 satisfies my need for high color saturation. :)

EDIT - I do agree with Jan, prices are going to keep rising and almost certainly need to to keep film production sustainable. However, knowing it needs to rise doesn't make it any more pleasurable when it happens.

dourbalistar 02-25-2019 10:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by brbo (Post 2871639)
I wonder what that super special raw material(s) is. It forced Fuji to triple the price of films in recent years while Instax has remained unaffected.

Maybe whale bone or whale oil for gelatin?
https://www.photrio.com/forum/thread...rocity.153198/

This (anti-whaling organization) article notes that Fujifilm "hold current patents related to image recording using whale oil..."

Ted Striker 02-25-2019 11:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pioneer (Post 2871662)
EDIT - I do agree with Jan, prices are going to keep rising and almost certainly need to to keep film production sustainable. However, knowing it needs to rise doesn't make it any more pleasurable when it happens.

A 30% rise in prices is well beyond inflation. We are living in an era of ultra low inflation. The Fed constantly misses it's 2% inflation target.

Fujifilm is selling less and less film so they need to make up for the loss of their scale. Notice that INSTAX film is unaffected. They sell enough of that film.

Ted Striker 02-25-2019 11:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by dourbalistar (Post 2871669)
Maybe whale bone or whale oil for gelatin?
https://www.photrio.com/forum/thread...rocity.153198/

This (anti-whaling organization) article notes that Fujifilm "hold current patents related to image recording using whale oil..."

Let's be real here. Gelatin comes from cows, not whale. There aren't enough whales harvested worldwide to base an industry off their use.

Ted Striker 02-25-2019 11:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by HHPhoto (Post 2871646)
2. Kodak and Ilford have increased prices in the last three years, Fujifilm had not. Now they have to.

Fujifilm had a blanket price increase across their film line in 2016. Again it was a double digit increase.

maigo 02-25-2019 11:13

Japan appears prepare to resume commercial whaling in 2019 though who knows if whale gelatin is still a component in current emulsions.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/25/asia/japan-withdrawal-international-whaling-commission-intl/index.html

dourbalistar 02-25-2019 11:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ted Striker (Post 2871671)
Let's be real here. Gelatin comes from cows, not whale. There arent enough whales harvested worldwide to base an industry off their use.

Be real? I think Japan is one of the few, if not only, countries still conducting commercial whaling. They recently withdrew from the International Whaling Commission:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/26/w...ithdrawal.html
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-46682976
https://www.npr.org/2018/12/26/68014...t-banned-pract

Also, female whales are cows. So Fujifilm must only use female whales to make photographic film.

Ted Striker 02-25-2019 11:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by dourbalistar (Post 2871674)
Be real? I think Japan is one of the few, if not only, countries still conducting commercial whaling. They recently withdrew from the International Whaling Commission:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/26/w...ithdrawal.html
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-46682976
https://www.npr.org/2018/12/26/68014...t-banned-pract

Also, female whales are cows. So Fujifilm must only use female whales to make photographic film.

Japan has not been commercial whaling for decades. Only very recently did they announce that they would start that that up again. Fujifilm is certainly not using whale in their films.

dourbalistar 02-25-2019 11:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ted Striker (Post 2871676)
Japan has not been commercial whaling for decades. Only very recently did they announce that they would start that that up again. Fujifilm is certainly not using whale in their films.

Well, maybe now that they are restarting, they can kill some male whales for film. That way, we can all have a load of bull...

css9450 02-25-2019 11:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by maigo (Post 2871673)
Japan appears prepare to resume commercial whaling in 2019 ...

Its probably due to the ongoing film resurgence....

jsrockit 02-25-2019 11:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by brbo (Post 2871639)
I wonder what that super special raw material(s) is. It forced Fuji to triple the price of films in recent years while Instax has remained unaffected.

Demand is the special raw material... :o (sorry, could not resist).

dourbalistar 02-25-2019 11:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsrockit (Post 2871684)
Demand is the special raw material... :o (sorry, could not resist).

The special raw material is the bones of dead, curmudgeonly film photographers... :D

bhop73 02-25-2019 13:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by ptpdprinter (Post 2871659)
I wonder at what price point film aficionados will lose their enthusiasm. I am only shooting black and white film and the prices still seem reasonable.

For me, the price point is maybe $10-12 per roll... but that'd be if that's the cheapest.. like if Superia and Kodak Gold were that price, then i'd probably give up on film, or at least shoot a lot less. I don't really see the cheap stuff getting that expensive though. I currently stick with Portra 400 and Tri-X and it's been pretty reasonable.

dourbalistar 02-25-2019 13:50

Maybe Fujifilm is just.... baleen the film market. ;)

dourbalistar 02-25-2019 13:57

Or maybe the are fishing to come Acros a Superia raw material...

dourbalistar 02-25-2019 14:08

Makes no Sensia to me, but I'm just trying to keep it Reala...

dourbalistar 02-25-2019 14:11

It's a shame, but that's just the Natura order of things...

dourbalistar 02-25-2019 14:19

Hopefully it's not Eterna for the worse...

Faintandfuzzy 02-25-2019 14:19

Kodak and Ilford have been seeing constant film growth for over half a decade....who knows if Fuji has been in on that. I see no reason why not. That said, maybe Fuji feel that 5%-6% year over year volume growth in film still isnt worth it.

Ko.Fe. 02-25-2019 14:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by ptpdprinter (Post 2871659)
I wonder at what price point film aficionados will lose their enthusiasm. I am only shooting black and white film and the prices still seem reasonable.

It only depends on the average income.

Five bucks per 24 of c-41. Is my income limit.
I need ten rolls maximum per year, for kids practice.

Bw, once it is over 70$ per bulk, I will quit.
Well, one bulk per year, if kids are still interested.

I already struggle to buy paper. Once old stock which was given to me is over, I'll switch to liquid light emulsion. I like how trashy it looks:)

bhop73 02-25-2019 15:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faintandfuzzy (Post 2871716)
Kodak and Ilford have been seeing constant film growth for over half a decade....who knows if Fuji has been in on that. I see no reason why not. That said, maybe Fuji feel that 5%-6% year over year volume growth in film still isnt worth it.

I think Fuji just sees more profitability with their digital camera business, which Kodak and Ilford don't have.

Faintandfuzzy 02-25-2019 18:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhop73 (Post 2871726)
I think Fuji just sees more profitability with their digital camera business, which Kodak and Ilford don't have.

Their Instax profits dwarf their digital business.

Huss 02-25-2019 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faintandfuzzy (Post 2871750)
Their Instax profits dwarf their digital business.

Yep in their Imaging Solutions division, Instax film profits absolutely dwarfs everything else.
So why is Fuji only raising prices on regular film? Because they know that Instax is used by people to have fun, goof around. They will lose interest in a hurry if prices of Instax are raised. But 'real' film is used by die-hards, artists, the faithful. Who will stick with it no matter what because it is film. So Fuji gouges them, cuz what are they (we) going to do? Go to digital?...

bhop73 02-25-2019 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faintandfuzzy (Post 2871750)
Their Instax profits dwarf their digital business.

Interesting, I wasn't aware, but I guess that would make some sense. People love that it's the instant photos like digital, but in a film form, for the nostalgia/novelty feels.

Archiver 02-25-2019 20:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by dourbalistar (Post 2871715)
Hopefully it's not Eterna for the worse...


Stop trying to Provia yourself, you just end up sounding full of Kodak. If I have to pay XTRA for film, so be it. I'd post some more personal film photos, but I don't want to aDox myself.

dourbalistar 02-25-2019 23:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archiver (Post 2871763)
Stop trying to Provia yourself, you just end up sounding full of Kodak. If I have to pay XTRA for film, so be it. I'd post some more personal film photos, but I don't want to aDox myself.

Archiver, I agree, this is no laughing matter. We can Ilford to lose any more emulsions. We have already been Delta blow with all the Fujifilm discontinuations.

Rob-F 02-26-2019 00:11

Maybe they will announce that the March sales were so good, they don't need to raise the price.

CharlesDAMorgan 02-26-2019 00:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by dourbalistar (Post 2871776)
Archiver, I agree, this is no laughing matter. We can Ilford to lose any more emulsions. We have already been Delta blow with all the Fujifilm discontinuations.

Aargh.......

Ted Striker 02-26-2019 00:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob-F (Post 2871781)
Maybe they will announce that the March sales were so good, they don't need to raise the price.

Dream on. We are witnessing, in slow motion, Fujifilm's exiting from traditional non instant film. They are stuck in a loop. Raise prices due to low demand, then demand drops off more because prices are so high. Then discontinue films because demand is low, raise prices again, and on and on and on....


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