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-   -   What if Nikon (and Canon) released new RF FILM cameras (and lenses)? (http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167322)

colker 01-10-2019 13:38

What if Nikon (and Canon) released new RF FILM cameras (and lenses)?
 
Wouldnīt it be fun??

Corran 01-10-2019 13:51

Well Nikon did, in 2000 and 2005.

I mean, it was a limited-run, special remake of their classic S3 and SP rangefinders, but still - who else has ever done such a thing?

I have a Nikon SP 2005 and if things get really dire in film manufacturing I'll buy as much bulk 35mm I can and shoot that camera forever.

ChrisPlatt 01-10-2019 13:56

It sure would be fun; however it's more likely you could build a time machine,
transport yourself back to the 1950's and buy them when they were making new ones.

Don't forget to bring a pocketful of cash...

Chris

Ko.Fe. 01-10-2019 14:07

Not sure why they would do it now. Who needs it? A few.
RF made by Canonikon are still around. It is not about having not enough. I purchased original Canon IId, no problem. It is parts and service. Was it Nikon offering films cameras special over one year not so long time ago?

It is 21st century and if anything is to be done for climate change it should be not producing of new, but supporting something which was made to lasts for decades and works as new, as long as service, parts are availible.
Enough of this planet eating consumerism, it works, but me wanna new, already.

CameraQuest 01-10-2019 14:35

Nikon MIGHT if there are more classic remakes.

Unlikely, but possible.

ColSebastianMoran 01-10-2019 14:39

What would be the best imaginable classic re-issue?

colker 01-10-2019 14:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by CameraQuest (Post 2860535)
Nikon MIGHT if there are more classic remakes.

Unlikely, but possible.

If film users keep making noise and if RF fans keep making noise Nikon may be tempted to join the party.

Suppose they come up w/ something along Bessa and ZI prices.

Now that would be an interesting plot twist.

splitimageview 01-10-2019 14:44

Leica still offers the classic M camera in the form of and M-A, or metered M-P.

colker 01-10-2019 14:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by ColSebastianMoran (Post 2860536)
What would be the best imaginable classic re-issue?

What if itīs a new camera like the Zeiss Ikon??? oooh la la.

What if Canon becomes jealous and wants to party as well? Canon and Nikon have tons of experience w/ rangefinders.

colker 01-10-2019 14:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by splitimageview (Post 2860538)
Leica still offers the classic M camera in the form of and M-A, or metered M-P.

Leica deals in the luxury market.

NIkon sells practical tools. I want Nikon to sell us something in the 1k price range for camera body! And lenses in the $600 range... W/ nikon pro quality. :):):)

Rob-F 01-10-2019 14:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by colker (Post 2860539)
What if itīs a new camera like the Zeiss Ikon??? oooh la la.

Yeah, that would get my interest. Why did Zeiss discontinue the ZM? seems a wrong move.

jawarden 01-10-2019 15:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by colker (Post 2860524)
Wouldnīt it be fun??

It would be fun x 10!

Larry Cloetta 01-10-2019 15:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by colker (Post 2860539)
Canon and Nikon have tons of experience w/ rangefinders.

Corporations don’t have experience; individual humans who worked for those companies had that experience. And they’re mostly dead, and took the requisite knowledge to their graves with them.
When Nikon reissued the S2 and SP, they had to mostly reverse engineer them because many of the original drawings were gone, and the manufacturing methods had changed as well.
NASA engineers have confirmed to me that America could not build another Saturn 5 rocket today if it had to, for the same reason. Designed with slide rules, and much of the necessary paperwork is just gone.

Unfortunate, perhaps, but not gonna happen. That’s pretty much the safest of safe bets.

Although ......I understand that Russian scientists in Siberia are working on bringing back the Wooly Mammoth. Seriously. So, yes, you’ll probably see Wooly Mammoths roaming the tundra before Canon brings back the 7S.

ColSebastianMoran 01-10-2019 15:30

Meanwhile, Voigtlander Bessa.

css9450 01-10-2019 15:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by colker (Post 2860553)
How did they lose money on a camera that sold out like the SP?

Its because they cost a whole lot more to develop and manufacture them than they sold them for. And its been mentioned more than a few times over the years here, that it took a long time for them to eventually sell them all. Meaning, the demand was "OK" but it wasn't overwhelming.

I just don't see a pressing need for another round of S3s or SPs in 2019 or 2020 or whatever, with the 2000-2005 versions still available nearly-new.

Godfrey 01-10-2019 15:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by colker (Post 2860540)
Leica deals in the luxury market.

NIkon sells practical tools. I want Nikon to sell us something in the 1k price range for camera body! And lenses in the $600 range... W/ nikon pro quality. :):):)

Seems to me that when Nikon did this in the early '00s, the prices were about 2.5x to 3x what you are looking for above. They would be more expensive today.

That's not quite as expensive as a new Leica M-A or MP, but it's not that much cheaper either. And they were certainly sold as "luxury" products for enthusiasts and such.

I wouldn't be interested in a new Nikon or Canon film RF camera because I already have all the Leica M-mount lenses I need (never mind both Leica M film and digital bodies). If I needed a new film body, I'd buy a body that took my existing lenses—that is, another Leica M. It's the economical thing to do: my kit of Leica lenses is worth about three to four times what a new Leica M body costs. But my 40 year old Leica M film camera is just fine and I don't need (or want) a new body. :D

G

BillBlackwell 01-10-2019 16:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by colker (Post 2860524)
What if Nikon (and Canon) released new RF FILM cameras (and lenses)?

They would only hasten their demise (especially Nikon)! :bang:

Quote:

Originally Posted by splitimageview (Post 2860538)
Leica still offers the classic M camera in the form of and M-A, or metered M-P.

Leica gets away with it (in limited numbers) because they're a privately held company.

IMHO it's foolish to pay $4k+ for an MP or M-A when you could get a freshly CLA'd M6 or M2/3/4 for a fraction of the price.

Huss 01-10-2019 16:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillBlackwell (Post 2860561)

IMHO it's foolish to pay $4k+ for an MP or M-A when you could get a freshly CLA'd M6 or M2/3/4 for a fraction of the price.

If no-one bought new Leicas they would no longer exist as a company.

BillBlackwell 01-10-2019 16:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huss (Post 2860562)
If no-one bought new Leicas they would no longer exist as a company.

Yes, of course. If your ultimate goal is to keep Leica in business, then knock yourself out.

colker 01-10-2019 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillBlackwell (Post 2860561)

IMHO it's foolish to pay $4k+ for an MP or M-A when you could get a freshly CLA'd M6 or M2/3/4 for a fraction of the price.

Leica M6 prices are closing on 2k. Those cameras are 20 yrs old. 4k for a new camera does not sound that foolish anymore. Not to mention all the VF flare problems and cheaper construction on M6. IMO itīs wiser to pay 4k and get an MP.

In the end itīs a niche and fickle market which counts as a blimp in Nikonīs horizon.

aizan 01-10-2019 17:02

What if...

...Nikon made a reissue of the F? :D

colker 01-10-2019 17:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by aizan (Post 2860571)
What if...

...they made a reissue of the Nikon F? :D

If you want a Nikon SLR get the F6!

Anyone wanting a film slr should buy the F6.

BillBlackwell 01-10-2019 18:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by colker (Post 2860567)
Leica M6 prices are closing on 2k. Those cameras are 20 yrs old. 4k for a new camera does not sound that foolish anymore. Not to mention all the VF flare problems ... on M6. IMO itīs wiser to pay 4k and get an MP. ...

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but actually a new MP is $4,795 in the US (closer to $5k).

Quote:

Originally Posted by colker (Post 2860567)
... cheaper construction on M6. ...

Really? Based on what?

Godfrey 01-10-2019 18:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillBlackwell (Post 2860564)
Yes, of course. If your ultimate goal is to keep Leica in business, then knock yourself out.

What is your ultimate goal?

I buy cameras to do photography, that is ultimately my goal. Leica makes cameras and sells them to people who buy cameras, and profits from the business. Is there something wrong with that?

If no one made any new cameras, eventually there would be no more camera companies and no more parts for the old cameras once they've worn out or become broken.

Your comment sounds like that something out of the 1800s wherein the notion was raised whether to close the US Patent Office because "everything that could be patented had already been invented." Happily, we've gotten beyond that idea... :)

G

maddoc 01-10-2019 19:07

What if there would be affordable film and processing in Japan?

farlymac 01-10-2019 19:10

I knew the dream was over when Nikon subverted the rangefinder terminology for use on the Z line. But they could always call a digital rangefinder version the DS.

PF

splitimageview 01-10-2019 19:28

How much were the 2000 and 2005 reissues when new? My memory isn’t working and I don’t feel like googling. :)

richardHaw 01-10-2019 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by splitimageview (Post 2860591)
How much were the 2000 and 2005 reissues when new? My memory isn’t working and I don’t feel like googling. :)

not cheap. around $6000 but they came with reissues of 2 magnificent Nikkors :eek::eek::eek:

splitimageview 01-10-2019 19:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by richardHaw (Post 2860592)
not cheap. around $6000 but they came with reissues of 2 magnificent Nikkors :eek::eek::eek:

In today’s money that’s $10k-ish...

They are/were gorgeous, I had a chrome and a black S3 and the SP. Need to get another!

Contarama 01-10-2019 19:49

If they did the marketers would probably require the engineers to include so much extra bs it would kill all the fun

Nikon's slr killed the RF btw...but I bet there are some engineers at Canikon who would love to do it if the bean counters weren't in the way

Freakscene 01-10-2019 21:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by colker (Post 2860567)
Leica M6 prices are closing on 2k. Those cameras are 20 yrs old. 4k for a new camera does not sound that foolish anymore. Not to mention all the VF flare problems and cheaper construction on M6. IMO itīs wiser to pay 4k and get an MP.

Have you got an MP? Taken one apart? I ask seriously.

Marty

Rayt 01-10-2019 21:53

I owned one of the 2000 models but ultimately sold it because the lack of lenses. Yes I know there are vintage as well as S mount CVs but the ones I want I either have or can get in LTM. If Nikon had followed up with the limited editions with a few lenses you can buy separately then it would have meant something other than warm fuzzy aw shucks nostalgic feelings.

KEVIN-XU 愛 forever 01-10-2019 22:02

Last year I finally got the reissue 2005 Nikon SP set. I will probably keep this camera for my entire life. I think there is no doubt that the black paint Nikon SP is the best rangefinder camera that Japan has ever made.

Rayt 01-10-2019 22:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by KEVIN-XU 愛 forever (Post 2860608)
Last year I finally got the reissue 2005 Nikon SP set. I will probably keep this camera for my entire life. I think there is no doubt that the black paint Nikon SP is the best rangefinder camera that Japan has ever made.

If I had that 35/1.8 I would probably keep it for a long time. Too bad it wasn’t issued separately.

mod2001 01-10-2019 22:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillBlackwell (Post 2860561)
IMHO it's foolish to pay $4k+ for an MP or M-A when you could get a freshly CLA'd M6 or M2/3/4 for a fraction of the price.

You forget that without this 'foolishness' you couldn't buy a used M2/3/4/6 nowadays because at some point in the past people were 'foolish' enough to pay a lot of money when they were new. Besides, without this 'foolish' behaviour a lot of companies (and jobs btw.) would'nt exist any more. So you should better think twice before you call this people foolish even when I get your intial thought especially whn comparing the M2 with the M-A.

Coming back to the topic, I doubt hat Nikon or Canon will ever produce film cameras again, but I wouldn't be surprised if Nikon comes sooner or later with a RF styled Z6/7. probably inheriting some design elements from the Nikon S.


Juergen

Pherdinand 01-11-2019 00:31

they would go bankrupt.

colker 01-11-2019 03:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillBlackwell (Post 2860582)
You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but actually a new MP is $4,795 in the US (closer to $5k).


Really? Based on what?






Based on the word of guys who CLA Leicas. Based on ugly chrome, silly logos, zinc instead of brass and crappy VFs which flare, unnacceptable in my standards.

colker 01-11-2019 03:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godfrey (Post 2860556)
Seems to me that when Nikon did this in the early '00s, the prices were about 2.5x to 3x what you are looking for above. They would be more expensive today.

That's not quite as expensive as a new Leica M-A or MP, but it's not that much cheaper either. And they were certainly sold as "luxury" products for enthusiasts and such.

I wouldn't be interested in a new Nikon or Canon film RF camera because I already have all the Leica M-mount lenses I need (never mind both Leica M film and digital bodies). If I needed a new film body, I'd buy a body that took my existing lenses—that is, another Leica M. It's the economical thing to do: my kit of Leica lenses is worth about three to four times what a new Leica M body costs. But my 40 year old Leica M film camera is just fine and I don't need (or want) a new body. :D

G


I am talking about something a bit different from what they did. It would not be a de luxe reenactment but a new camera like a Zeiss Ikon ZM. Something that fits like an FM 3 in the hierarchy. An FM3 w/ a rangefinder. That could cost 900 dollars.
AE, manual focus, lightweight, rangefinder.. and manual lenses. BAM!!
Nikon would be the coolest kid on the block. It would sell their other cameras as well. It would pump the brand.

jsrockit 01-11-2019 03:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by aizan (Post 2860571)
What if...

...Nikon made a reissue of the F? :D

In digital! :eek:

colker 01-11-2019 03:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freakscene (Post 2860605)
Have you got an MP? Taken one apart? I ask seriously.

Marty


No but the MP vf is offered as an upgrade to the poor working vf of the M6.


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