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-   -   Leica ll 1932 (http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169923)

Hammer 11-08-2019 19:20

Leica ll 1932
 
looking for some thoughts on a purchase im thinking about; Leica D from 1932 black paint with nickel elmar, condition looks to be very good to excellent with a supposed recent(this year) cla. asking price is $1000, ive never used a LTM leica so my main concerns are the price being fair and the tiny viewfinder/rangefinder. Any words of wisdom would be appreciated

maddoc 11-08-2019 19:34

I bought one last year from an Ebay seller in the US for US$549 (+ shipping). No information about any CLA but the camera was one of the rare cases, in which a used camera actual works and the lens looks OK also.



I use it with a wrist-strap (no strap lugs). After the II, I also got a IC Standard and a III. I like both cameras better than the II. The IC is really as minimalist as possible and the III has strap lugs, an adjustable diopter (!!!) and slow speeds. The III also has a modified shutter (shutter breaks?) if I am not mistaken, making it more reliable.



Richard G 11-08-2019 20:04

I bought one from RFF classifieds. New beam splitter made the RF very useable. And it is the whole RF window, not a central patch like with an M. The VF one might adapt to, but the SBOOI finder is the way to go. No strap lugs makes for an extra compact pocketable camera.

Dralowid 11-08-2019 23:27

I would suggest that it is priced way too high unless very, very special indeed.

Erik van Straten 11-08-2019 23:53

I agree with Maddoc here that a Leica III is a much better user camera than the Leica II.

Get a black and nickel one. How nice it is to have a black paint Leica for so little money. The III is usually substantially cheaper than a Leica II but is really a better camera overall.

Leica III, Summar 50mm f/2, 400-2TMY/Adox MCC 110.

Erik.


shawn 11-09-2019 03:07

I have a 1932 II that was converted to a III.



The viewfinder is tiny but is useable if it is clear. A 1:1 SBOOI on top is awesome when you want the bigger viewfinder. The II has the 1x RF window (as opposed to 1.5x of the III and later), no diopter adjustment and no strap lugs.

If that camera is serial # 74670 it looks like it is in nice shape. Call them and see who did the CLA. Some of their cameras and lenses are done by DAG.

Shawn

Ambro51 11-09-2019 04:06

I traded mine off in a deal to get a Bell and Howell Foton. Funny thing, I never Bonded with the black Leica. Don’t miss is at all. BTW a grand is too much (now) but If film revival Really takes off a grand might not be too much. I was told once the reason a Lot of this type Leica has covering no longer Black was because they sat in shop windows for years :-)

Erik van Straten 11-09-2019 04:24

Yes, the guttapercha of the III gets brown when exposed to daylight for a long time, but it gets darker again in the dark. Why the guttapercha of the other Leicas does not change in color I don't know.

I like this brownish tone, looks a bit like leather.

Erik.

Ambro51 11-09-2019 04:58

Black shoe polish will get it a bit darker, really a nice mid look especially polished. Mine was a II convert to III, probably because of this it never grew on me. Funny thing though it was an eBay true auction the seller didn’t realize he put an ending time during the Super Bowl!

oldwino 11-09-2019 06:45

I purchased a 1930 Leica I with a nickel Elmar for around $500. It had been upgraded to a II at some point later, as it has the diopter adjustment. I think I spent around $250 for a CLA on the camera and lens. Both are great shooters.

Hammer 11-09-2019 07:09

i guess my main concern are these able to be good daily use cameras, the price is high but difficult to compare as there are few out there

shawn 11-09-2019 07:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammer (Post 2922862)
i guess my main concern are these able to be good daily use cameras, the price is high but difficult to compare as there are few out there

As far as daily use I think that is really going to depend upon you and what you shoot. They are certainly slower cameras to use but that also means you slow down to use them which can be nice. If you have it closed down for smallest carry you have to extend the Elmar, remove cap, wind the film, set shutter(after winding only and you can't really do it by feel), set aperture (which is a little fiddly on the Elmar), focus in one window and compose in the other and shoot. And depending upon what you are shooting potentially add a lens hood in there too as the uncoated Elmar's will flare. Because it is a II you won't have speeds below around 1/20 of a second.

The viewfinder is small but workable, maybe less so if you wear glasses. If CLA'd it should have a clear VF. I have scale focus Kodak Retina's with even smaller viewfinders that I enjoy to shoot too.

Other than that they are Barnacks so you either are going to love it or hate it. If you are looking to shoot with a very classic camera it is a fun choice. If you are looking to shoot with the most functional Barnack the IIIG has a much nicer VF and is only a little bit bigger and has low speed shutter options and you can get it cheaper. Something like a Tower45 adds easier film loading and quick advance too with a nicer finder than the II or III has.

One of these is with the 1932 III and nickel Elmar, one is with a Elmar-M on the M240.





Shawn

Hammer 11-10-2019 19:41

thanks for the info

ZivcoPhoto 11-10-2019 20:29

I have a 1933 Leica III (116XXX) black paint nickel which I had CLA by DAG, also have the nickel Elmar for it. I wouldn’t sell it for less than $1,000. As Erik said they are fun to use.
Of my four screwmount Leicas that’s the one that I use the most and next is a IIIF that also was CLA by Don. The IIIF has 1/1000 shutter speed but really nothing else over the 1933 Leica III. The older model is small and quite easy to pocket (even with strap lugs). I would love to know to whom it belonged over the years......it is an export model so probably been in US most of its time.

CharlesDAMorgan 11-10-2019 22:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammer (Post 2922862)
i guess my main concern are these able to be good daily use cameras, the price is high but difficult to compare as there are few out there

I have a Leica III with all the improvements over the Leica II. It works relatively well, and was serviced 18 months ago. I would not dream of using it as a daily camera and comes out on special occasion.

Ste_S 11-10-2019 23:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammer (Post 2922862)
i guess my main concern are these able to be good daily use cameras, the price is high but difficult to compare as there are few out there

If you want a daily user ltm camera, then a Canon P.
That’s not a Leica though if that’s what you’re specifically after ?

David Hughes 11-11-2019 01:13

You wanted some words of wisdom, so I'll start by saying that I have my doubts about any elderly RF for daily use: few will see that as words of wisdom.

As I see it, daily use means carrying the thing around and, as one or two of us that own and use them have pointed out, they are not really pocketable, but awkward to use and there are far better cameras you can put in a pocket and carry around without worries about dropping them or having them stolen. They are also a difficult shape to slide into or out of pockets because they have bits sticking out and they are heavy.

As I see it the Barnacks and all those derived from it are for fun and other pleasures but not really for day to day photography. And to use or carry them properly you need an elderly ERC or one of the nasty inappropriate plastic ones; they are usually sold as "PU leather" to catch mugs. And you'll need an exposure meter and they don't allow flash.

So a fun and interesting classic but not an everyday camera. If that is the criteria then the II (black or chrome) with a contemporary lens has much going for it. And so have all the others...

Thinking only of film cameras then the ones I have and do carry around the most are the Olympus XA's family, the Olympus µ versions and the Konica C35. That list includes two RF's, some AF's, one zone focusing and a fixed focus and was mentioned to show the choice you have for a carring-around-all-day camera.

Regards, David

Richard G 11-11-2019 02:07

For months I had my Leica II and Nickel Elmar collapsed in the outer shallow pocket of my Crumpler shoulder bag that went everywhere with me. Daily carry for sure.

Malcolm M 11-11-2019 04:11

West Yorkshire Cameras have a II with Elmar for £299. $1000 seems a bit much to pay just because it’s black. As for ease of use, don’t worry about it- that way madness lies. The purpose of using a Barnack is to use a Barnack. If any actual photographs result, that’s an unwonted bonus. If the photos are any good, that’s a demi-miracle.

David Hughes 11-11-2019 08:10

The real problem with pre-war Leica outfits is finding one of these in its case and getting it restored.




My one has been restored since the photo was taken but modern cells mean it reads for a 400ASA film at f/16.

Regards, David

Erik van Straten 11-11-2019 09:10

I never use a lightmeter. Lightmeters only keep you away from looking at the subject and they make you to forget to shoot at the right moment.

Leica III, Elmar 50mm f/3.5, 400-2TMY/Adox MCC 110.

Erik.


jcb4718 11-11-2019 11:14

How do you judge exposure, Erik?

Erik van Straten 11-11-2019 11:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcb4718 (Post 2923232)
How do you judge exposure, Erik?


Outside, I always use 1/100th of a second. I only change the f-stop. If it is dark, I open it a bit and if there is enough light I close it a bit.


Erik.

Pál_K 11-11-2019 11:57

1 Attachment(s)
Here's my 1934 Leica III with nickel Elmar 50/3.5 which I used daily this year for two months (carried in a small pouch). I bought it with the lens a few years ago from a friend - about $500. All speeds work.

My choice of film was Rollei RPX 25, so I used slower shutter speeds and wider apertures than I'd have liked at times. That Elmar seems best around f/8 or f/11.

HuubL 11-12-2019 07:58

The classic set (open in new window):

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BcS...bXFpGg4wd/view

Dralowid 11-12-2019 09:38

Ha! The elusive black nosed (or black rim) Summar!

Richard G 11-12-2019 09:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erik van Straten (Post 2923205)
I never use a lightmeter. Lightmeters only keep you away from looking at the subject and they make you to forget to shoot at the right moment.

I wish I had read this when I was 17. For some months after I got my first camera I had no light meter. I used my mother’s camera’s light meter but soon just relied on the Kodak film box end guide. Nine years later during a month in Italy this worked well even with slides (transparencies/colour reversal.) So many good shots I did indeed miss for the slow CdS Gossen meter where every light situation seemed always to be in the border between the low light and outdoor bright range. Maddening. Back to less reliance on the meter only in recent years.

Pál_K 11-12-2019 11:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erik van Straten (Post 2923205)
I never use a lightmeter. Lightmeters only keep you away from looking at the subject and they make you to forget to shoot at the right moment.
...

That makes sense for a lot of photographic situations.

Only when photographing landscapes, buildings, or some plants and trees (none of which move quickly) might I choose to use a meter. I've learned exposure from decades of meterless photography.

Your nice photo illustrates your point well.

Erik van Straten 11-12-2019 11:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pál_K (Post 2923416)
Your nice photo illustrates your point well.

Thank you!

Leica II, Hektor 50mm f/2.5, Tmax400/Adox MCC 110.

Erik.


p.giannakis 11-12-2019 11:51

Lovely picture Erik.

Erik van Straten 11-12-2019 12:38

Merci Pan!


Erik.

Rob-F 11-12-2019 16:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammer (Post 2922800)
looking for some thoughts on a purchase im thinking about; Leica D from 1932 black paint with nickel elmar, condition looks to be very good to excellent with a supposed recent(this year) cla. asking price is $1000, ive never used a LTM leica so my main concerns are the price being fair and the tiny viewfinder/rangefinder. Any words of wisdom would be appreciated

I have a II of exactly the same description, with nickel Elmar, except it's from 1934, and no CLA. I paid less than $400 for it. I think you can do much better, with a little patience.

shawn 11-12-2019 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Hughes (Post 2923121)
And you'll need an exposure meter and they don't allow flash.

Shooting meterless outdoors is pretty easy once you get the hang of it. I use a lightmeter on my iPhone if needed.

Not that I'd ever use it but some old Barnacks allow flash.



Shawn

Hari 11-12-2019 17:41

I carry my Leica II black w/collap. Summicron always,
but sometimes take the 15/4.5 Voitl. or the Canon 25mm/3.5
Simple.

bayernfan 11-12-2019 19:51

Cagney approves.

Film: Picture Snatcher (1933)

David Hughes 11-13-2019 01:09

And you'll need an exposure meter...
 
Well, I still think people need meters; especially if you are new to film and elderly cameras.

I managed without for years but I was using B&W film then and FP3 had a fairly wide latitude and I was doing the corrections to my poor guesses in the darkroom later on, after school.

It was a great leap forwards when I got a meter and an even bigger one when I got it built into the camera. For me the peak was TTL and CW, which is why I love the Leica CL, M6 and M9...

It takes a long time to sort out and learn all the variations that are involved in judging or (at first) guessing the correct exposure and you waste a lot of film doing it, unless you restrict yourself to commonplace everyday photography. Far better in my experience to start with a meter (and a notebook) and RTFM.

Once experience has been gained you can start going without but that's not where you should start. And a few poor/bad experiences might put you off old Leicas and film for ever; to say nothing about the shots you'll be missing while you are learning.

And if people tell you about "sunny 16", you should bear in mind that it should be "sunny 8" in mid-winter and "sunny 11" in autumn and spring*. These factors have been measured carefully since the 1930's and are well established by now although no one seems to know/agree what an "average" subject is...

This is an unpopular view but I'm sticking to it.

Regards, David


* To add to the confusion the early Leica cameras did not have f/16, 11 or 8 as they used the "German" scale and - but unlike modern cameras - they do let you use 200 ASA or ISO film. An old Weston Euro Master meter would cover it all without all the maths.

Erik van Straten 11-13-2019 04:18

Of course David is right that technically it is better to use a meter. However, with these old cameras the question is how precise the shutters are. That is why I suggest to use only 1/100 of a second. At 1/500 and 1/200 the slit beween the curtains is very small, so there will be almost always tapering. At 1/100 the chance of getting an even exposure is better.

The choice of the f/stop is smaller then too. Modern B+W film has an enormous exposure latitude. You can't go wrong. At 1/100 it makes no difference if you choose f/4 or f/11. You'll always get a printable negative. The effect of the f/stop is much bigger on the dept of field than it is on the printability of the negative.

Leica III, Elmar 50mm f/3.5 nickel, TMY2-400/Adox MCC 110.


Erik.



HuubL 11-13-2019 06:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by shawn (Post 2923466)
Not that I'd ever use it but some old Barnacks allow flash.
Shawn

These were converted in the 1950s from pre war IIIa originals. Everything on the outside is 1950's. I have one in chrome and one in black, and they are wonderful cameras.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/huubl/...7594225941403/

David Hughes 11-13-2019 06:34

Well, um, I use all the speeds going and don't have problems but I'll cross my fingers next time.


As for printing, you need a lot of experience to print and that's the problem for newcomers. Add in that there are few good labs about that people can afford for individual wet D&P-ing and I'm sticking to what I said.


But if you are not a newcomer then I'll add that I agree with Erik.


Regards, David

jcb4718 11-13-2019 08:06

It's amazing what you can get away with in terms of exposure settings. I have 4 Barnaks and even after a service the shutter speeds are not particularly accurate. Anything from 0-0.5 stops over is typical PLUS 0-0.5 stops taper. Sometimes, particularly at 1/500th, the overexposure on one side of the negative nudges 1 stop! Even so, I have never noticed any effect on a print. If you have an average overexposure you just get a dense negative and the print exposure has to be longer. Underexposure is a different matter if its so great that you lose shadow detail ('expose for the shadows, print for the highlights' is the well known mantra). You can still get a print, you just lose contrast. I use a hand held light meter but usually just to get an idea of the exposure and usually when I am not about to take a photo. If conditions change e.g. cloud cover arrives, I check again. After a while you get an idea of what the day is doing.


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