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-   Roger Hicks -- Author of The Rangefinder Book (http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=141)
-   -   Death of a standard? (http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94593)

oftheherd 09-01-2010 04:48

Death of a standard?
 
So sorry Mr. Hicks, both for the news, and that I have to be the messenger. :p

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/38902171/ns/today-books/

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/38627912/ns/today-books

But what's up with chimping not being added? Maybe they couldn't find the etymology?

Rogrund 09-01-2010 05:19

This is the (sad) reality of lexicography. I use both versions of the OED, the online at work and the printed at home. Even if the first one is a joy to use compared to many other online dictionaries, it can't beat the feeling of the 20 thick volumes in my bookcase!

sig 09-01-2010 05:30

Death of a standard? Is the OED a standard?

Rogrund 09-01-2010 05:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by sig (Post 1406667)
Death of a standard? Is the OED a standard?

Well, not a standard to follow, since the OED is a descriptive dictionary. But it is called "the definitive record of the English language".

John Lawrence 09-01-2010 06:09

I'm saddened.

One of the joys of searching for a word in the printed version of the OED was finding other interesting words on the same page, or in the search for that word.

John

1ScrewLoose 09-01-2010 08:00

"Remember the firemen are rarely necessary. The public stopped reading of its own accord." -- Fahrenheit 451

oftheherd 09-01-2010 08:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSU (Post 1406643)
Does this mean that they will become collector items?

Perhaps. Check an ebay listing near you.

greyelm 09-01-2010 08:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSU (Post 1406643)
Does this mean that they will become collector items?

I understand that they are already making copies of this from old Websters in the Ukraine, complete with military insignia :D

dogberryjr 09-01-2010 08:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSU (Post 1406643)
Does this mean that they will become collector items?

Yes, but only if they have all their original packaging, have never been used and have a recent CLA.

paulfish4570 09-01-2010 08:50

't'isn't dead; it is just on a different shelf ...

photogdave 09-01-2010 09:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Lawrence (Post 1406692)
I'm saddened.

One of the joys of searching for a word in the printed version of the OED was finding other interesting words on the same page, or in the search for that word.

John

Kind of like searching for a certain frame in your negatives often leads to seeing an old forgotten shot in a new way!

John Lawrence 09-01-2010 09:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by photogdave (Post 1406844)
Kind of like searching for a certain frame in your negatives often leads to seeing an old forgotten shot in a new way!

Exactly.

Reminds me of a comment I once read about Brewer's Dictionary of Phrase and Fable, which went something like:

"You probably won't find what you're looking for amongst its pages, but you will find several far more interesting things!"

John

chris000 09-01-2010 10:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by sig (Post 1406667)
Death of a standard? Is the OED a standard?

Often copied, never bettered :)

j j 09-01-2010 15:03

Isn't this a bit like film is dead and Leica is dead? The word may features heavily and that word usually translates as non story. In any case, how many people own the full set? One volume or two volumes on paper is enough for most users. The story reads more like a push for webscribers than anything.

Steve M. 09-01-2010 16:09

If you want a definitive record of the English language, just buy the plays of Shakespeare and Tennessee Williams. Any word you might want to use that isn't there isn't worth using.

Al Patterson 09-01-2010 17:44

So a printed copy of a standard is now moving online, and that is death? PLEASE download my brain to the web so I can "die" like the OED...

jmcd 09-01-2010 17:54

I have the compact version with tiny print, a real treat, and read with the magnifying dome. I enjoy a book on the physical printed page.

PKR 09-01-2010 23:11

I thought the "real' OED was (I don't remember the correct number) 11 volumes?

rxmd 09-01-2010 23:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1ScrewLoose (Post 1406774)
"Remember the firemen are rarely necessary. The public stopped reading of its own accord." -- Fahrenheit 451

Note that people nowadays people read more than ever before, it's just that they do much of it online.

And they're not phasing out the OED, they're phasing out the printed edition.

And I wonder if the idea would be all that final anyway, because there is a sizeable target demographic that likes things old, traditional and tangible - possibly not a lot of people, but many of them quite wealthy. Producing printed "snapshot" editions every few years might be well worth it.

Rogrund 09-01-2010 23:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by PKR (Post 1407263)
I thought the "real' OED was (I don't remember the correct number) 11 volumes?

The first edition of the OED, called A New English Dictionary on Historical Principles, was published in 1928 in ten volumes. In 1933, there was a one-volume supplement, and at this time the original dictionary was reprinted in twelve volumes and re-named the Oxford English Dictionary. A four-volume supplement was published between 1972 and 1986, and in 1989 there was an integrated Oxford English Dictionary, Second Edition in twenty volumes. This is the current printed version of the OED.

Sparrow 09-02-2010 01:09

Was it Plato who complained that books were ruining peoples memories?

rxmd 09-02-2010 01:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparrow (Post 1407293)
Was it Plato who complained that books were ruining peoples memories?

"And in this instance, you who are the father of letters, from a paternal love of your own children have been led to attribute to them a quality which they cannot have; for this discovery of yours will create forgetfulness in the learners' souls, because they will not use their memories; they will trust to the external written characters and not remember of themselves. The specific which you have discovered is an aid not to memory, but to reminiscence, and you give your disciples not truth, but only the semblance of truth; they will be hearers of many things and will have learned nothing; they will appear to be omniscient and will generally know nothing; they will be tiresome company, having the show of wisdom without the reality." - Plato, Phaidros, 275.

On a related note, cultural pessimism isn't what it used to be, either.

photogdave 09-02-2010 08:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by rxmd (Post 1407295)
"And in this instance, you who are the father of letters, from a paternal love of your own children have been led to attribute to them a quality which they cannot have; for this discovery of yours will create forgetfulness in the learners' souls, because they will not use their memories; they will trust to the external written characters and not remember of themselves. The specific which you have discovered is an aid not to memory, but to reminiscence, and you give your disciples not truth, but only the semblance of truth; they will be hearers of many things and will have learned nothing; they will appear to be omniscient and will generally know nothing; they will be tiresome company, having the show of wisdom without the reality." - Plato, Phaidros, 275.

On a related note, cultural pessimism isn't what it used to be, either.

Great quote - Plato was surely prescient. What he is describing is how people read DPReview and buy their camera gear accordingly!

Sparrow 09-02-2010 08:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by rxmd (Post 1407295)
"And in this instance, you who are the father of letters, from a paternal love of your own children have been led to attribute to them a quality which they cannot have; for this discovery of yours will create forgetfulness in the learners' souls, because they will not use their memories; they will trust to the external written characters and not remember of themselves. The specific which you have discovered is an aid not to memory, but to reminiscence, and you give your disciples not truth, but only the semblance of truth; they will be hearers of many things and will have learned nothing; they will appear to be omniscient and will generally know nothing; they will be tiresome company, having the show of wisdom without the reality." - Plato, Phaidros, 275.

On a related note, cultural pessimism isn't what it used to be, either.

Yep, that's the bit, it must have made an impression it's 30 years since I read it last.

There's some graffiti in Pompeii or Herculaneum that bemoans the "state of todays youths" ... well a bit more profane than that actually

oftheherd 09-02-2010 09:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparrow (Post 1407558)
Yep, that's the bit, it must have made an impression it's 30 years since I read it last.

There's some graffiti in Pompeii or Herculaneum that bemoans the "state of todays youths" ... well a bit more profane than that actually

Didn't Socrates talk about that as well?

Gumby 09-02-2010 09:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by oftheherd (Post 1407593)
Didn't Socrates talk about that as well?

Didn't he say, "... those young wippersnappers just aren't as submissive as we were when I was a lad..."?

Sparrow 09-02-2010 09:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by oftheherd (Post 1407593)
Didn't Socrates talk about that as well?

Probably, they went to the same school :D

bigeye 09-02-2010 15:48

Although a bit suburban, the writing in the older editions of Encyclopaedia Britannica's is fantastic. I'm not sure of the year the wheels fell off (mine is a 1953 set), but if you can find an old set they are wonderful. They sell for pennies and are priceless... like old negatives.

We call my farmer friend's battered dictionary, "Cooper's Google".

-Charlie

Rogrund 09-16-2010 23:48

Besides, a few volumes of the printed OED is perfect for flattening negatives. Couldn't do that with the online version! :)

oftheherd 09-17-2010 04:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogrund (Post 1420006)
Besides, a few volumes of the printed OED is perfect for flattening negatives. Couldn't do that with the online version! :)

Why didn't I think of that with my old Webster?

JohnTF 10-01-2010 08:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by oftheherd (Post 1407593)
Didn't Socrates talk about that as well?

Not sure, he did not write it down. ;-)

Regards, John


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