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-   -   HP5 striation (http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=170276)

davidnewtonguitars 12-21-2019 13:12

HP5 striation
 
I always love the "what happened to my roll?" threads.
These from one roll, from a bulk roll of HP5, in ID-11. A few good exposures, many with striations, this is the worst. They aren't scratches, the emulsion isn't scratched. Even the clear leader has striations, the end doesn't. There are random "blobs" on the film also.





Ko.Fe. 12-21-2019 17:39

Did you tried to wipe it off by fingers?

farlymac 12-21-2019 19:45

I recently had that same issue on some Tri-X. It's a shutter issue, namely all cracked and leaking light as it travels across the film.
Here is the thread about it. https://www.rangefinderforum.com/for...d.php?t=170030


PF

davidnewtonguitars 12-22-2019 10:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. (Post 2930826)
Did you tried to wipe it off by fingers?

I use Kodak photo-flo and 2 well wetted and squeezed out sponges to wipe the film before hanging to dry. I've done this since I have developed film with no effects.

I think this is a "bad spot" on the emulsion, as I can not detect any actual scratches on the film. If it were a bad curtain, I think it would be on every frame, and worse on a well lit scene, and it is the opposite, worse on a poorly lit interior.

Ko.Fe. 12-22-2019 11:49

Is it only at one frame? Exactly within one frame? If so, then PF might be right.

randy stewart 12-22-2019 12:27

film/image damage
 
There are no physical scratches, and the odd marks running along the length of the film, but only periodically, with other images good, negates the film being scratched in the bulk loader or the camera. It probably does not relate to problems in the developing chemistry itself. We do not know what kind of processing tank was used.

My ideas in no order suggesting relative probability:

1. An intermittent light leak during the bulk film loading process, light filtering through the light trap. Some loaders do not have a positive lock on the door covering the cartridge.

2. If developed with a rotary processor, like a Jobo unit, some mechanical failure of the processor & drum causing inadequate delivery of fresh developer to film.

3. Manufacturing flaw in the bulk film roll.

It's a real puzzle.

farlymac 12-22-2019 13:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidnewtonguitars (Post 2930914)
I use Kodak photo-flo and 2 well wetted and squeezed out sponges to wipe the film before hanging to dry. I've done this since I have developed film with no effects.

I think this is a "bad spot" on the emulsion, as I can not detect any actual scratches on the film. If it were a bad curtain, I think it would be on every frame, and worse on a well lit scene, and it is the opposite, worse on a poorly lit interior.

Italics mine: PF

I thought so too along those lines, as I got some frames at the first part of the roll that seemed to be okay. It got worse as the roll went on, which might suggest the curtain was getting worse with use.

On my camera, I inspected the curtains, and it appears one of them has been recently replaced with the other one being all cracked up. I've been told the striation will appear mostly when using the faster shutter speeds, so maybe you were changing shutter speed, instead of aperture like I do. The same issue happened with some BW400CN I next ran in the camera (and used a different lab for the developing), only it was worse which kind of backs up my theory of the curtains getting worse with use.

It also had a front side light leak which meant whomever changed the one curtain didn't do a very good job of it.

PF

davidnewtonguitars 12-22-2019 15:58

My camera, an M2 with perfect looking shutters, which were replaced around 2000 by Leica in London, if I can believe the former owner.
I don't use a bulk loader, I load cassettes in a dark bag. I load Nikkor reels in a dark bag also. The striations are about half of the roll starting at one end, and fading out somewhere in the middle. That is the 2 images I show in the OP the worst frame and the best frame. See the lines in the worst frame go from frame to frame even through the dark area between frames. Would not that rule out curtains as a fault?

We will see on the next roll which is just about depleted, 5222. I will also use a different developer. If it shows up on that one, it may well be shutters, or mechanical.
I'm betting it is the film emulsion, or some handling defect that I inflicted on that roll.

Ko.Fe. 12-22-2019 16:54

Quote:

which were replaced around 2000 by Leica in London, if I can believe the former owner.
Do you realize it could be 20 years old lie?

:D

farlymac 12-22-2019 19:33

If the shutter curtains are leaking light, then it's not just the action of the curtains moving across the film, but also the film moving past the curtains when being advanced that causes the striation. So if the deterioration is bad enough, you're likely getting the leak while rewinding the film too, adding to the streaking, and thus the in-between frame exposure. And nearly twenty years on shutter curtains of a camera that may not have been stored under the best environmental controls could easily have worn them out, depending on the quality of material used. I've read that a Leica overhaul is only good for about ten years, no matter who does it.


PF

Daryl J. 12-22-2019 20:33

I had very similar happen with a roll of HP5 in 120.
FYI


We never came up with a solution really.

sepiareverb 12-23-2019 03:02

Have you contacted Ilford? They have been very helpful in the past tracking down odd stuff like that.

Carlos Cruz 12-23-2019 03:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by sepiareverb (Post 2931004)
Have you contacted Ilford? They have been very helpful in the past tracking down odd stuff like that.

add keykode - numbers found on the box or along perforation. If it shows up on in unexposed areas it's probably faulty batch of negative.

Malcolm M 12-23-2019 04:26

You didn't load the film back to front, or anything silly like that? The Canon logo on the strap is reversed.

davidnewtonguitars 12-23-2019 05:34

I scanned 2 strips of negative upside down. The good exposures were on 1 of those, so I dismissed that could cause the problem.
Here are 2 more frames, the garden doesn't have striations, exposure good, but a blob on the left upper corner, the other is an exposure with the lens cap left on, yes I still do that from time to time.







Quote:

Originally Posted by Malcolm M (Post 2931011)
You didn't load the film back to front, or anything silly like that? The Canon logo on the strap is reversed.


Malcolm M 12-23-2019 06:28

Curiouser and curiouser. You seem to have 3 completely separate faults going on simultaneously. The lines on the original photo are dead straight, consistent with the film being pulled over a rough surface. Those in the (intentional test) photo above have some vertical displacement. The Scream masks I can't begin to explain.

retinax 12-23-2019 07:20

This film is clearly cursed or haunted. I'm sure Steve Huff can help. :p

davidnewtonguitars 01-11-2020 12:14

So just reporting back on the next roll thru this M2, this time 5222 in HC110, the roll is normal, good on all frames.



I'm pretty convinced it is a film emulsion issue, defective in this spot of the 100' roll. I might contact Ilford if the next roll I spool off has some of the same results.

farlymac 01-11-2020 13:30

Could be the canister you used for the first load is defective.


PF

davidnewtonguitars 01-11-2020 20:04

Could be, it was its first time of use.


Quote:

Originally Posted by farlymac (Post 2934876)
Could be the canister you used for the first load is defective.


PF


craygc 01-11-2020 21:12

1 Attachment(s)
I had a very similar issue with HP5 a number of years ago - see attached scan. This was 35mm film that had been frozen in its container but out of the box. I ended up in discussion with Ilford, even sending them my negatives, and the best we arrived at was that it was possibly static exposure. This is the same result you get if you rapidly pull sticky tape from the reel (it flashes; you can see it in the dark). Now, whenever I thaw out a brick of this frozen film, I waste a roll by quickly pulling out the film. If I can feel the "stickyness" I might repeat a couple of more rolls but typically trash the entire brick so as not to repeat the same problem again.


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