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-   -   Sigma fp (http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=168958)

Black 07-11-2019 01:45

Sigma fp
 
First! lol

Full frame mirrorless, Bayer sensor shocker!
Worlds smallest FF system offering.
Seems to be very cinema oriented.
Looks like a pre-Quattro dp, but with interchangeable lenses.
Not sure about the full time electronic shutter, but what do I know.

Opinions: GO!

Keith 07-11-2019 02:12

I looked and blinked ... I could have sworn I saw my DP Merrill. :p

I still have both of my DPMs and still love the little jiggers ... what an interesting little camera this appears to be and what an amazing company Sigma is. :)

jbielikowski 07-11-2019 03:59

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5e580-K2z8

looks cool!

nickthetasmaniac 07-11-2019 04:02

I don't know if it's for me (not enough info yet), but I really like that it isn't another 'me too' dSLR-esque body. Reminds me of a RX1 with an interchangeable mount.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbielikowski (Post 2898962)

Hah, they pinched my Cron Collapsible :D

lynnb 07-11-2019 04:13

Reminds me of the BlackMagic. In a good way. Go Sigma!

Archlich 07-11-2019 04:28

Price, price, price. Given the Panasonic S1's rather high price point this won't come cheap as well.

BTW both the EOS RP and the original a7 are just about 2 oz heavier and come with viewfinder, hotshoe and (in the RP's case) fully articulated screen. Stiff competition out there.

shawn 07-11-2019 04:32

Love that they kept the 21:9 mode of the SQ Quattro in it. Full frame and with adapted lenses this could be fun for panoramic shots.

Shawn

lynnb 07-11-2019 04:33

This is really funny - I clicked on the link to Sigma's Global Vision site about the camera... and the page is taking a wet week to load! I hope it writes images a little faster...

OK it's loaded - looks very interesting so far.

Edit: "The SIGMA MOUNT CONVERTER MC-21 allows SIGMA SA mount and SIGMA’s CANON EF mount interchangeable lens owners to use their lens investment on L-Mount camera bodies."
- I wonder if Canon EF lenses can be mounted on the FP (and other L-mount cameras) with this adapter?

Note also the FP appears to only have an electronic shutter (not a mechanical one).

nickthetasmaniac 07-11-2019 05:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archlich (Post 2898967)
Price, price, price. Given the Panasonic S1's rather high price point this won't come cheap as well.

What does the price of the Panasonic have to do with the price of the Sigma? Other than sharing a mount they’re completely different cameras... After all, the S1 is a completely different price to the Leica SL.

shawn 07-11-2019 05:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by lynnb (Post 2898970)

Edit: "The SIGMA MOUNT CONVERTER MC-21 allows SIGMA SA mount and SIGMA’s CANON EF mount interchangeable lens owners to use their lens investment on L-Mount camera bodies."
- I wonder if Canon EF lenses can be mounted on the FP (and other L-mount cameras) with this adapter?

Should be able to. I have the Sigma MC-11 (EF to Sony E mount) and use Sigma and Canon lenses on my Sony.

Shawn

Archlich 07-11-2019 05:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by nickthetasmaniac (Post 2898971)
What does the price of the Panasonic have to do with the price of the Sigma? Other than sharing a mount they’re completely different cameras... After all, the S1 is a completely different price to the Leica SL.

I believe the price of each brand are coordinated to a certain degree to reflect different roles they play in the L-mount alliance. If they compete fiercely with each other there won't be much chance standing against the other big boys right?

It would certainly be nice if Sigma would price the FP at a lower price point like the EOS RP's budget $1300. But lenses aside, Sigma cameras were never cheap, especially so after it re-imaged itself as a semi-premium manufacturer with a series of high quality products under Mr. Kazuto Yamaki, the young successor of the company. So until the dream eventually comes true, I won't hold my breath for it.

retinax 07-11-2019 05:52

A cine camera, doesn't look very practical for still photography. Unergonomic, no thumb and index finger wheels, standard shoe only as an add-on, doesn't look like it has a tilting screen and the eye-level finder is an abomination...

lynnb 07-11-2019 06:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by retinax (Post 2898978)
A cine camera, doesn't look very practical for still photography. Unergonomic, no thumb and index finger wheels, standard shoe only as an add-on, doesn't look like it has a tilting screen and the eye-level finder is an abomination...

Also, despite having an external microphone jack there's no headphone monitoring jack. That seems a strange omission given how they're advertising it as a cine camera as much as a stills camera.

Another interesting thing for still photography is:
"Flash Tuning Speed Max. 1/30sec. * 1/15 sec. or less at 14bit".
Do they mean flash synchronisation speed?

benlees 07-11-2019 07:12

Ummm... it has a Bayer sensor. Is it really a Sigma?:angel:

jsrockit 07-11-2019 07:13

This camera will be cheap-ish. I kind of like it.

nightfly 07-11-2019 08:46

Don't really see what the point of making such a small body when the lenses are so large. It looks neat but those L mounts are pretty big.

drewbarb 07-11-2019 09:15

Ok, Sigma; you've got my attention.

I look forward to seeing a lot more information about this thing before I form an opinion; but I will say this kind of size and flexibility is exactly what I've always thought COULD be some of what digital camera technology could offer, if we could just get away from being hamstrung by film-era camera designs and lens mounts. It'll be interesting to see what Sigma has here - and what they do next.

jsrockit 07-11-2019 09:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by nightfly (Post 2899001)
Don't really see what the point of making such a small body when the lenses are so large. It looks neat but those L mounts are pretty big.

They have the new 45mm 2.8 that is small. It was released at the same time.

B-9 07-11-2019 10:07

Love it.

I like the boxy design and the modular accessories.

Definitely beyond my budget either way.

benlees 07-11-2019 10:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by nightfly (Post 2899001)
Don't really see what the point of making such a small body when the lenses are so large. It looks neat but those L mounts are pretty big.




Agreed. Such a small body (with, what, 9 buttons on the back) with those big Sigma lenses is an ergonomic back fire. And no viewfinder...


So small but destined for a tripod. Odd.

jsrockit 07-11-2019 12:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by benlees (Post 2899020)
Agreed. Such a small body (with, what, 9 buttons on the back) with those big Sigma lenses is an ergonomic back fire.

Again, the new 45mm is small.


emraphoto 07-11-2019 13:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsrockit (Post 2899032)
Again, the new 45mm is small.

Looks VERY interesting to this fella

jsrockit 07-11-2019 13:16

1 Attachment(s)
Now...with a grip...

and some other basic accessories: https://www.sigma-global.com/en/came...s/accessories/

benlees 07-11-2019 14:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsrockit (Post 2899032)
Again, the new 45mm is small.


For a 45mm 2.8 it's a behemoth lol; I'm sure [hope] there are other 'small' lenses in pipeline, but if you don't want 45mm then...

Keith 07-11-2019 14:18

As much as this fascinates me it's not the Sigma I would want but according to rumour the full frame foveon is still in the wings if you can believe that. Aside from the diminutive size I don't see what the excitement is about. There is no damned viewfinder and no mechanical shutter so no real surprise it's so tiny because all we have is a sensor surrounded by a box of electronics backed up with an LCD screen and a lens mount on the front. I like to be able to put a camera up to my eye when I take a photograph and preferably not with that accessory viewfinder they offer ... with a longish lens you have the photographic equivalent of a bazooka with that thing on!

Hopefully they will bring out something that looks like the Quattro that does actually have a full frame foveon sensor that will handle like an actual camera. That said I wish them success with this because they are a clever company and definitely think outside the box.

jsrockit 07-11-2019 14:31

I guess this is something that interests me for a few reasons. I've been thinking that 45mm is a perfect focal length for me. I've been wanting something small, but FF to go with my Fujis. The RX1R II was the only option and I don't like 35mm FOV. Also, I have some skin damage due to the bright sun here in Chile and on bright sunny days when I have to wear a hat... I keep hitting the brim of my hat with my camera when doing vertical shots (80% of my photos). A really nice LCD camera could do the trick. We will see. Rolling shutter?

Ko.Fe. 07-11-2019 15:24

It just another rare camera, which most will ignore, due to incapable battery and sluggish AF.
It is 400 + 200 weight to have AF. Nowhere near Sony RX1 weight. So, they not smallest FF camera.
With pinhole only.

ptpdprinter 07-11-2019 15:45

I'm old fashioned. I like viewfinders unless I'm under a dark cloth. This new camera is of no interest to me. Small camera, big lenses. What's the point?

Samouraï 07-11-2019 17:19

Pretty cool looking, but wake me when the Foveon version is released.

benlees 07-11-2019 17:32

Sigma has an underdog quality that somehow is accentuated because they never quite get it right but don't give up. When you put Sigma into google search they don't come up first. For love or money...

drewbarb 07-11-2019 17:33

I see all the complaints about this just being a tiny box with a sensor and a lens mount and little else, and you're right; but I think this is the POINT. It seems pretty clear that Sigma is thinking of this as a modular camera, with only the most essential parts built in so that the end users can set it up with the parts they need; so you're not paying for components you won't use (like a viewfinder or hotshoe if you're buying it to use as a video camera, or a big grip if you're going to put it on a tripod or into a steady cam rig, or microphones and sound ports if you're buying it to use as a stills camera, etc.)

This is what I was getting at with my comment above about this little box possibly representing the real flexibility that should be unlocked with modern digital camera design. If this thing offers truly excellent imaging from a top notch sensor and access to one fo the best and most versatile lens mounts out there, and everything else can be customized by the user for the exact purpose they intend, that could help keep waste, redundancy, and cost down. The argument that the box is too small to bother with if the lenses are huge is ignoring the modular intent. If you use this little box as the only part it is (sensor and lens mount) and put on the other parts you need for your purpose (as the promotional video clearly shows is their idea for this) then it's only as big as it needs to be; all the other parts get added to do what you need. Thinking about this primarily from the point of view of stills shooters, maybe this seems silly; but nobody building cameras these days (besides Leica...) thinks of these tools as only for stills. Video is, if not the primary purpose, at least needs to be a serious consideration. Have you folks looked at how video shooters set up their cameras these days? Especially pros are always using separate monitors, focusing rigs, microphones and other sound gear. From that context this design makes a lot of sense. That Sigma has also thought of using this is a stills camera, and provides add-ons for that is just icing to make this more appealing to those who might want to use a body like this for both stills and video.

Just my 2 cents. Anyway, as I said above, I look forward to more info. Once we see reviews, sample images, pricing and availability, battery life, etc. etc. etc. we can re-evaluate the purpose and the relative success of a this camera. But if they get it right, this could be a real winner for Sigma. Maybe it won't be for everyone, but if they implement this right, it could be an incredibly useful and versatile basis of a truly complete and wildly flexible shooting platform for lots of users.

nlubis 07-11-2019 17:53

I like it. Looking forward for more details.

jsrockit 07-11-2019 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. (Post 2899065)
It just another rare camera, which most will ignore, due to incapable battery and sluggish AF.
It is 400 + 200 weight to have AF. Nowhere near Sony RX1 weight. So, they not smallest FF camera.
With pinhole only.

Huh? You’ve tried it already to know how it performs? and I'm sure they mean lightest and smallest interchangeable lens mirrorless FF... which it surely is. But I don't expect anything but negativity from you anyway.

To me, lack of EVF, perhaps short battery life, rolling shutter, only one small lens, etc are fair points... but in a world of me too mirrorless cameras, I always commend Sigma for trying different ideas.

shawn 07-11-2019 18:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by ptpdprinter (Post 2899069)
I'm old fashioned. I like viewfinders unless I'm under a dark cloth. This new camera is of no interest to me. Small camera, big lenses. What's the point?

Small camera and a lens mount that will allow almost any lens made to mount to it.

Shawn

jarski 07-11-2019 19:28

Sigma: shut up and take my money! :p

edit: uh oh... I want my money back. thought this was Foveon camera :(

farlymac 07-11-2019 19:52

One thing that struck me as I was watching that video with all the accessories presented was the size of the flash unit. It's almost three times the size of the camera body!


If it does come in at a decent price, I'd be sticking a 35mm Cron on the front, and let 'er rip!


PF


ps: I also like that fp is the reverse of my inititals, PF

Archiver 07-11-2019 20:45

I sincerely hope that Sigma get this right. There are hints that they will, but some hints that it might be more cumbersome than useful.


- there's no EVF as yet, and the huge OVF clip on for the back is clunky as heck
- raw output for video is fantastic, but Cinema DNG is ludicrously large and will fill up your storage like nobody's business. Blackmagic have compressed raw as well as various flavours of ProRes, which is an industry standard for capture and editing, so hopefully Sigma will move in that direction.
- being able to adjust tone curves and Sigma's Fill Light in-camera is going to be amazing
- the modular design means that we'll see Smallrig et al make cages and everything for this very soon. Hopefully, third parties will make bolt-on grips and battery plates, maybe even a compact EVF


This is really, really appealing to me. My only concern is that it's a first generation Sigma product, which doesn't inspire a lot of confidence given their track record for first gen iterations.

jsrockit 07-12-2019 06:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archiver (Post 2899112)
I sincerely hope that Sigma get this right. There are hints that they will, but some hints that it might be more cumbersome than useful.

Yep, I feel the same way...

Keith 07-12-2019 14:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archiver (Post 2899112)
I sincerely hope that Sigma get this right. There are hints that they will, but some hints that it might be more cumbersome than useful.



Cumbersome as in DP Merrill cumbersome? :p

Those little DPMs are a serious photographic tool but they certainly challenge your patience! :eek:

Archlich 07-12-2019 14:21

Not very portable, at the moment at the moment, with native lenses other than the 45/2.8.



The updated spec shows the camera to have a familiar 49-point contrast detect autofocus system. So it's Panasonic again.


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