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-   Leica M10, 240 family, M-P, M60 (http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=207)
-   -   M-E (typ240) (http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=168831)

richardHaw 06-26-2019 19:57

well, just think of it this way, at least it will drive used camera prices down to more realistic levels :eek::eek::eek:

Gid 06-26-2019 23:22

A new M240 was already available for a similar price - Leica store UK had them on its list recently for £3,500, so I can't see the new ME making a huge difference to prices of used M240s. if you paid £5,500 for one then I can see that you might be annoyed, but that is just the way it goes. I bought a new Canon 6D less than a year ago for £699 compared to a launch price of £1799. If you wait until a product's life cycle end you can get them for a good price. Patience is a virtue but not always exciting.

Gregm61 06-27-2019 01:18

I read "sapphire glass" in a response or two above. Don't you need to buy the much more expensive "P" version to get that? I believe the Gorilla Glass back LCD on this new M-E is the exact same material used in the stock M240 unit as well as the only digital M (M262) I have ever purchased new......and still love shooting.

Far as video goes, these things could have 8K video capability in them and I'd still not shoot a second's worth of video. I can probably count the number of minutes-worth of video I've shot using all digital cameras I've purchased since 2003 on the fingers of one hand, and that was just fooling around with it.

o-Tom-atic 06-27-2019 16:11

So, is it better to wait that the price of a used Leica M goes down or buy a new M-E instead?

richardHaw 06-27-2019 16:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gid (Post 2896547)
A new M240 was already available for a similar price - Leica store UK had them on its list recently for £3,500, so I can't see the new ME making a huge difference to prices of used M240s. if you paid £5,500 for one then I can see that you might be annoyed, but that is just the way it goes. I bought a new Canon 6D less than a year ago for £699 compared to a launch price of £1799. If you wait until a product's life cycle end you can get them for a good price. Patience is a virtue but not always exciting.

damn, theyre so expensive here in japan :eek::eek::eek:

Huss 06-27-2019 19:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by o-Tom-atic (Post 2896699)
So, is it better to wait that the price of a used Leica M goes down or buy a new M-E instead?

Used M is now about $2500. New M-E is $4000.

Used M10 is under $5K now. Soooooo... how about used M10 or new M-E?
:D

Archiver 06-28-2019 02:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffS7444 (Post 2896525)
To keep things in perspective, current discounts on the Fujifilm GFX50R make medium format slightly cheaper than Leica M.


In Australia, there's no way you could get a GFX50R plus a lens for under 10k AUD. That's instant M10 territory. A new digital M body for 6k AUD is in the same range as the Leica Q, or even less than the Q II.

jja 06-28-2019 05:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huss (Post 2896725)
Used M is now about $2500. New M-E is $4000.

Used M10 is under $5K now. Soooooo... how about used M10 or new M-E?
:D

I have not shot an M10, but based on what some users claim, the picture quality is similar to the M240, with only one additional stop of *usable* dynamic range (there are other differences not related to photo quality, such as marginally thinner body, simplified menus, addition of ISO dial, improved viewfinder, reduced battery life). Based on these reports, one might argue that either the M240 or the new ME are the best value. I have an MP240 going on three months now that I bought used, but if I were in the market for an M right now, new or used, I'd look hard at the ME. Two year warranty brings a lot of peace of mind.

o-Tom-atic 06-28-2019 07:15

What about the ISO performance of the M’s sensor vs the new M10 sensor? I read that with the M240, you shouldn’t go beyond ISO 3200. How does it compare to the M10?

Huss 06-28-2019 08:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffS7444 (Post 2896525)
To keep things in perspective, current discounts on the Fujifilm GFX50R make medium format slightly cheaper than Leica M.

And a 47mp Nikon Z7 is a lot cheaper than the Leica. But so what? The experience is not the same.

Gid 06-28-2019 09:00

A well known reviewer estimates that the M10 has a 1.5 stop advantage over the M240 at high ISO levels - above ISO3200. The difference appears to be smaller at lower ISOs.

My experience with the M240 is that ISO3200 is perfectly usable but I tend to set ISO1600 as my limit. Bear in mind that my previous digital leicas were the M8/M8.2 where good ISO1600 would have been a luxury and prior to that I was happy with ISO400 film in any of my film Ms. It is all relative, of course, and what you consider good, bad or adequate performance depends to some extent whether you're looking back at how bad it used to be or forward to how good it could be:D

Huss 06-28-2019 09:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emile de Leon (Post 2896510)
I'm seriously thinking about getting this M-E though..
But think..in a couple of years time..this will be a pretty ancient camera design..

Not ancient. Timeless. Seriously the whole point of the M is the traditional simplicity of the process. Digital photography stripped down. There is a purpose and intention to that. If you want the bells and whistles then it is stuff like the Q2 or SL.
What matters is the result, and Ms are very capable of making stunning images.

Gid 06-28-2019 09:04

What Huss said.

Having obtained recently the correct dioptre lens for my M240 I'm now keeping it. :)

ptpdprinter 06-28-2019 09:04

Surely the new m-e 240 is using the same 24MP sensor that is in the M10 and not leftovers from 2012.

Gid 06-28-2019 09:31

The ME 240 is an M240 with the 2GB buffer from the MP240.

Emile de Leon 06-28-2019 12:29

Quote:

Not ancient. Timeless.
Huss..I worded that wrong..
Its the chip and the electronics I was talking about..those aint timeless..
I have an M3 & M6 and other formats up to 16x20 ULF..
So if I want timeless..I got that covered..
Thing is..its an old azz interior electronically..
But a reliable one..esp in Leica digital terms..
And..I have no doubt..that the current partnership w/Panasonic..will reveal possible stunning improvements in the next itineration of the M240 series..and may well be worth the extra few K...esp in terms of speed and color..
But waiting for that is a fools journey..
And remember the M-E you bought..the last of the M9 series..priced el cheepo..to move em out..paint it grey..

Just the name...M-E..should send shivers of fear..up your spine...

PRJ 06-28-2019 12:36

The ME is the perfect camera for the selfie generation. I'd bet if they called it the ME-ME-ME they'd sell ten times as many. It is just missing a mirror on the front.

Still, glad that Leica are making a camera that some more people can afford new.

Huss 06-28-2019 12:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emile de Leon (Post 2896875)
Huss..I worded that wrong..
Its the chip and the electronics I was talking about..those aint timeless..
I have an M3 & M6 and other formats up to 16x20 ULF..
So if I want timeless..I got that covered..
Thing is..its an old azz interior electronically..
But a reliable one..esp in Leica digital terms..
And..I have no doubt..that the current partnership w/Panasonic..will reveal possible stunning improvements in the next itineration of the M240 series..and may well be worth the extra few K...esp in terms of speed and color..
But waiting for that is a fools journey..
And remember the M-E you bought..the last of the M9 series..priced el cheepo..to move em out..paint it grey..

Just the name...M-E..should send shivers of fear..up your spine...

The M-E I bought was $5500 way back when! The one now is $4000 which shows what deal it is. Also the M240 series has been bullet proof. Leica knew they were selling defective kameras with the M9 series.

Does it matter if the interior of the new M-E is old? Doesnt what matter is that it works and the quality of the pics that come out of it are excellent? Cuz they are.
This is a case of having passed a level of sufficiency a long time ago.
Telling a story does not require IBIS/ISO80,000/Super duper metering etc etc. Look back at all those incredible pics throughout the history of photography.
The Leica M-E has got u covered. Or the M240. Don't waste ur money on an M10, no-one outside a high ISO pixel peeper (1 stop difference!) is going to notice any diffrence. But they may notice the difference in battery life and their wallet.

Emile de Leon 06-28-2019 12:59

Quote:

The M-E I bought was $5500 way back when!
Dude..! Dats a lot of do re mi..
Could buy a lot..of Tuna melts for that..lol..

But get the current M-E..
And 2 years down the road out of warrantee....its going for under 2K..
Thats 1 hell..of a deal..
Thing is..I would luv to have a rangefinder digital to use my Leica lenses with..
I would hate to buy this camera..and find out my Noct needs to be re calibrated..and my 35mm 1.4's..are out of rangefinder sync..
And the 135mm..is out..
May get it anyway though..
You only live once..unless you believe in reincarnation..
Who knows where Leica will be then..lol..

JeffS7444 06-28-2019 17:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huss (Post 2896842)
And a 47mp Nikon Z7 is a lot cheaper than the Leica. But so what? The experience is not the same.


So are you saying that if someone took away your M-cameras and gave you a GFX50R in it's place, that you couldn't make it work for you? This isn't an apples-to-oranges situation, it's more like comparing two different varieties of apple.

Huss 06-28-2019 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffS7444 (Post 2896932)
So are you saying that if someone took away your M-cameras and gave you a GFX50R in it's place, that you couldn't make it work for you? This isn't an apples-to-oranges situation, it's more like comparing two different varieties of apple.


No, because I would never take that massive lump anywhere with me.

You're right, it's not apples to orange situation, more like an apple to a watermelon.

Size comparison:

http://j.mp/2Yo7uQo

The Fujis are freakin massive in comparison, with much slower lenses.

o-Tom-atic 06-28-2019 20:10

What about the seize of the M240 (M-E) vs the M10? Isn’t the M10 more like the size old classic cameras? Is the chubbier M240 awkward to hold? Just asking because I never had the chance to hold any of them.

BillBlackwell 06-28-2019 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by o-Tom-atic (Post 2896949)
What about the seize of the M240 (M-E) vs the M10? Isnít the M10 more like the size old classic cameras? Is the chubbier M240 awkward to hold? Just asking because I never had the chance to hold any of them.

If you're used to an M film body the chunkier digital M will get some minor getting used to. I adjusted quickly and now use my M2 and M-P 240 interchangeably without thinking about it. All digital Leica M cameras, excepting the M10 variants, are approximately 4mm thicker with height roughly equivalent to an M6TTL or M7.
https://mirrorlesscomparison.com/pre...s-leica-m-240/

Emile de Leon 06-29-2019 08:01

Does anybody have experience shooting video with this model?
What is the video time limit in HD..?
Can it shoot 30 min straight..or less..?

BillBlackwell 06-29-2019 08:46

Video is very sharp and clear, but the sound quality sucks! Even with the optional microphone attached to the hot shoe, sound is terrible.

Emile de Leon 06-29-2019 11:51

Quote:

Video is very sharp and clear, but the sound quality sucks! Even with the optional microphone attached to the hot shoe, sound is terrible.
Sound quality doesnt matter to me fortunately..as I use an external recorder if I want better sound. But if you run the M240 sound thru a music program..you can probably dress it up a bit..
No one knows video length?

BillBlackwell 06-29-2019 12:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emile de Leon (Post 2897040)
... No one knows video length?

Limiting factors are 30 minutes or a maximum file size of 4GB. When I played with the video feature on my M-P 240 I used the maximum image quality setting and always hit the size limit first (~20 minutes).

Emile de Leon 06-29-2019 12:17

Quote:

When I played with the video feature on my M-P 240 I used the maximum image quality setting and always hit the size limit first (~20 minutes).
Thx Bill! I needed that info to make my decision.

Out to Lunch 06-29-2019 15:43

Leica M-E (typ 240)
 
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...e_typ_240.html


Available early July at $ 3,995. Any comments?


Cheers, Peter

Bingley 06-29-2019 15:48

I’m interested...

Out to Lunch 06-29-2019 16:04

I just scrolled through the BH page and it appears the camera works with the Leica Visoflex EVF2.

airfrogusmc 06-30-2019 05:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by jja (Post 2896808)
I have not shot an M10, but based on what some users claim, the picture quality is similar to the M240, with only one additional stop of *usable* dynamic range (there are other differences not related to photo quality, such as marginally thinner body, simplified menus, addition of ISO dial, improved viewfinder, reduced battery life). Based on these reports, one might argue that either the M240 or the new ME are the best value. I have an MP240 going on three months now that I bought used, but if I were in the market for an M right now, new or used, I'd look hard at the ME. Two year warranty brings a lot of peace of mind.

I have both an M 262 and a couple of M 10s and the M 10 is more than a stop better in low light.
20,000 ISO




The low light capabilities and the lack of any shutter lag in the M 10 are two reason I bought the M 10.

And for video I wouldn't shoot video with a rangefinder or a DSLR. They make REALLY good video cameras for video. I am glad they left it off the M 262 and M 10.

jsrockit 06-30-2019 07:13

A very old camera for $4000 and people are excited like it’s some kind of excellent deal? I get it... it’s the cheapest new digital m ever, but it’s cheaper for a reason. Once you start thinking of paying $4,000, it may be better to go all in and get the body you truly want.

Emile de Leon 06-30-2019 08:14

Quote:

A very old camera for $4000 and people are excited like it’s some kind of excellent deal? I get it... it’s the cheapest new digital m ever, but it’s cheaper for a reason. Once you start thinking of paying $4,000, it may be better to go all in and get the body you truly want.
Problem is..they dont make the exact body I really want..and when they finally get around to it..I'm gonna be so old..I wont be able to sqeeze the trigger...lol..
As well..as it will be 10K by then..maybe more..

Keith 07-03-2019 13:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by benlees (Post 2895976)
The local camera shop here has it listed at $4695 CDN. The 262 is "on sale" for $6195 CDN. The M-E is almost a bargain...


Can't remember the last time I saw any Leica offering and the word 'Bargain' used in the same sentence! :p

Ko.Fe. 07-03-2019 16:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsrockit (Post 2897166)
A very old camera for $4000 and people are excited like it’s some kind of excellent deal? I get it... it’s the cheapest new digital m ever, but it’s cheaper for a reason. Once you start thinking of paying $4,000, it may be better to go all in and get the body you truly want.

:rolleyes: OK.


If I want new, in the fancy Leica box and with fancy new camera registration digital M body for as low as possible price?
Which body I'll get?

"Very old camera for..." is not the argument with Leica. It is never been an argument.

M8 used costs more than "very old" new back then A7 and "very old" A7 mark something. Used "very old" M8 still close to the "who still needs it?" new Xpro2 and "already forgotten" new RF.

In 2016 I had choice which body to get for $3000, I was able to find original new M-E (due to exchange rate). It is 2019 and I'm happy every time I hold it in my hands. I had many cameras in my hands and I didn't have motion to own and use them. All of those X, Z, R and Whatelse are only new then they are reviewed by first time in DPR. But once they are in the stores, they are nothing but "yesterday". Just like any "new" hondyota.

Ko.Fe. 07-03-2019 16:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by airfrogusmc (Post 2897147)
...

And for video I wouldn't shoot video with a rangefinder or a DSLR. They make REALLY good video cameras for video. I am glad they left it off the M 262 and M 10.

Sure, then I'm on event with mobile truck it is big and huge cameras. Huge once don't even record the video, they are sending it via fiber to recording device at 180 fps.
But it is not always like this with video.

I have seen local media taking interviews with mobile phone and microphones rig. I have seen interviews taken by big names and good connections companies with EOS FF DLSRs. For tens of millions audience.

benlees 07-03-2019 16:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith (Post 2897689)
Can't remember the last time I saw any Leica offering and the word 'Bargain' used in the same sentence! :p




If there is any truth to this (in Leica-speak) it lies somewhere between "discriminating taste" and "everything is relative"

jja 07-04-2019 06:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by airfrogusmc (Post 2897147)

The low light capabilities and the lack of any shutter lag in the M 10 are two reason I bought the M 10.

I have not noticed shutter lag on my MP240, and I've used it to shoot sports (it's my only digital camera). I don't feel like I've missed a shot due to shutter lag (many misses due to "shooter lag"). I'd be interested to hear more about this.

Regarding high ISO performance, I'm glad there is a noticeable improvement in the M10. There have been only a few instances where I've really wished for anything above 3200. Can ISO 6400 on the M240 be manipulated to provide satisfactory results?

ptpdprinter 07-04-2019 07:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by jja (Post 2897780)
Regarding high ISO performance, I'm glad there is a noticeable improvement in the M10. There have been only a few instances where I've really wished for anything above 3200. Can ISO 6400 on the M240 be manipulated to provide satisfactory results?

There is no indication that this is a new sensor. Since the run is limited to 750 units, it is probably just left over 2012 sensors. It's like buying NOS.


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