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-   -   What's up with Japanese ebay sellers? (http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=168134)

Huss 04-16-2019 13:34

What's up with Japanese ebay sellers?
 
I'm looking for the old style Mamiya 6 and pretty much every Japanese seller has a description that does not match the product. Forget the liberal use of 'Mint", 'Excellent +++++++" etc.
These are descriptions that say things like perfect glass, no scratches etc..

Exhibit A:

Excellent ++++,
< Optics >
Beautiful condition.
There is no fog.
There is few small dust.
There is no fungus.
There is no scratches.
There is no separation.

But the ad shows fungus if you closely.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Excellent-M...cAAOSwOGFctbnW

Exhibit B:

Same description as above, major marks on lens when u actually look at the pic

https://www.ebay.com/itm/OVERHAULED-...8AAOSwckVcCCQ5


Exhibit C:

"Near Mint"

Optics 【Lens and View Finder】
Beautiful condition.
There is no balsam separation.
There is no fungus.
There is no wipe scratches.
There is thin haze in view finder.
There is a few dust in view finder and lens.

But looking at the pic shows the lens looks like it was wiped w sandpaper.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/APP-N-MINT-...MAAOSwt~1ctPwZ

This is just the first three that appeared when I search for New Listings. Going thru the list they ALL are like this.

My past dealings with Japanese sellers have had about a 50/50 hit/miss ratio. Which frankly is not good. Searching for this camera shows not one ad matching the photographic description.

mpaniagua 04-16-2019 13:55

Pitty. My expirience with japanese sellers/buyers have been great. Just bought 2 backs for my Horseman and they came in the described condition and with fast shipping.

Just bough a Bronica ETRS body and I hope it arrives safely.


By the way, just find a little funny that the from the camera body I bought has this description:


■ Optics
No fungus, haze, scratch, little dust, no effect on the photo.

This although it is only the body I'm buying :)

Seems like copy-paste text to me.

So, lesson is see the pictures to ensure what are you buying.


Marcelo

benlees 04-16-2019 14:11

I have had many perfect experiences buying cameras from Japan. It has been a few years, though.


I'm not sure if they now do this with cameras, but with guitars and bicycles ebay sellers in Japan often don't even own the merch. They are actually in a local shop (for much less!). If someone BIN then they hop down to the shop, buy it, and then send it to you. Multiple listings for the same piece is the usual indicator of this...

B-9 04-16-2019 14:40

My Super Fujica was advertised as excellent from Japan.

Almost word for word as your OP Huss... lol

I looked pretty close at the photos, the price was right, and it arrived optically and mechanically fine within like 10 days. I was pretty impressed.

By no means excellent condition tho! Haha

gavinlg 04-16-2019 15:43

Japanese sellers used to be the most sure fire way to get good gear on eBay, but you're right - recently, it's become much harder and cameras described at excellent or mint are often seriously flawed.

peterm1 04-16-2019 15:52

I have never had a problem with any Japanese seller (touch wood). In fact I quite often search for items from Japan as I find the item descriptions to be honest, the dealers to be business like and trustworthy and in fact quite often where problems are mentioned by sellers they are usually over stated, not understated so when I get the item I am pleasantly surprised. (Old adage for good service - under-sell but over-deliver).

The thing also seems to be too, that in Japan, lenses say, which have a touch of fungus etc seem to be in less demand so any BIN price usually is less than in other countries in my experience. Japanese tend to be perfectionists in their buying habits (besides which, Japanese photo equipment naturally is in good supply hence cheaper). Finally the handling and postage fees charged by Japanese sellers almost always are very fair unlike some countries where the opposite applies. I am sad to say I have almost given up on USA as its not unusual with smaller items for shipping charges to far outweigh the purchase price due to crazy USPS fees (not to mention the often ridiculous USPS slooooooooooooooooooooooooooow deliveries). Sad but....

While on that subject I also find that items shipped from Japan arrive extraordinarily quickly (admittedly I am in Adelaide in the state of South Australia so I guess we are reasonably close as international distances go) often within a week. This surprisingly is sometimes quicker than it takes me to get a package bought on eBay from another Australian state capital like Sydney. Since international inbound packages tend to come into Australia through Sydney I have no idea how this can be so - but it is. On reflection maybe it is because as soon as I buy something from a Japanese seller they ship it the same day whereas other sellers like those in Australia may sit around, scratch their backsides, do the crossword puzzle, read the paper, have a beer and in a few days to get around to shipping it.

Nope as far as I am concerned Japanese sellers tend to be still amongst the best.

fad gadget 04-16-2019 16:03

You're absolutely right Huss, I've come to the exact same conclusion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huss (Post 2882214)
I'm looking for the old style Mamiya 6 and pretty much every Japanese seller has a description that does not match the product. Forget the liberal use of 'Mint", 'Excellent +++++++" etc.
These are descriptions that say things like perfect glass, no scratches etc..


splitimageview 04-16-2019 16:53

“There is no tiny dusts”

Deardorff38 04-16-2019 17:12

Several sales in Tokyo & mail order..... they have the goods.... fast delivery....no disappointments.

B-9 04-16-2019 17:15

I think somewhere “excellent” is being lost in translation these days.

Unless it’s Wayne’s World! Wayne’s World!

richardHaw 04-16-2019 17:22

be careful. there are some mainland chinese sellers posing as japanese vendors. they have a physical presence here and they ship from here which makes it hard to detect. :eek::eek::eek:

Emile de Leon 04-16-2019 17:39

Even my brand new Ebony 8x10 came with mucho cosmetic issues that should have never left the factory..
As always..buyer beware..
That said..most of the Japanese camera gear I've bought used from Japan..a Rittrick 5x7 comes to mind here..has been of excellent quality..and the descriptions very accurate..

wwfloyd 04-16-2019 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by benlees (Post 2882221)
I have had many perfect experiences buying cameras from Japan. It has been a few years, though.


I'm not sure if they now do this with cameras, but with guitars and bicycles ebay sellers in Japan often don't even own the merch. They are actually in a local shop (for much less!). If someone BIN then they hop down to the shop, buy it, and then send it to you. Multiple listings for the same piece is the usual indicator of this...


Wow! That's an eye opener.


WRT to the OP, I have given up on trying to divine legitimate meaning from those Japanese listings. I just skip them. All.

Ko.Fe. 04-16-2019 18:08

Well, I can't tell if it is every seller now. But I have noticed the trend mentioned in OP some time ago. "Mint" Leica lenses with very bad glass.

farlymac 04-16-2019 19:37

I've noticed those type of adds before, and sometimes they have more accurate descriptions/disclaimers lower on the page. But then as Richard says, the market has been infiltrated, so one does have to watch out. You have to see if they are also using the same photos from another auction/BIN. I once saw three listings for the same lens (the serial number was plain as day) in one search, but eBay did nothing about it after I reported them.


PF

aizan 04-16-2019 19:40

it all went to hell several years ago. the only seller in japan i bother with now is irohas.

shueido in taiwan is also good.

one seller i gripe about these days is kevin cameras. they don’t haggle in my experience, and everything is 3-4x more expensive than it should be. ugh!

tunalegs 04-16-2019 19:56

I haven't had an issue with Japanese sellers, but maybe it's because I don't pay much attention to the usually very sparse description, and instead look at the photos and the price. If the price is too good to be true, it is. If the price is low, you have to wonder why. To be sure, I have received items that did not live up to the descriptions (and so study pictures very carefully now) but have never received something where the price did not match the actual condition.



My experience indicates that what Japanese are willing to sell on ebay to foreign buyers is usually second rate - it's stuff they won't put on the shelf in their shop.

Sarcophilus Harrisii 04-16-2019 19:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by aizan (Post 2882267)
it all went to hell several years ago. the only seller in japan i bother with now is irohas.

shueido in taiwan is also good.

one seller i gripe about these days is kevin cameras. they donít haggle in my experience, and everything is 3-4x more expensive than it should be. ugh!



True, but at least it all smells fresh!

splitimageview 04-16-2019 20:27

I’ve negotiated with kevincameras, he is premium priced but his gear is premium.

fad gadget 04-16-2019 20:43

Agreed.

I've alway got a good price from Kevin, been dealing with him for years.
Nice chap, and you do get what you paid for.



Quote:

Originally Posted by splitimageview (Post 2882272)
Iíve negotiated with kevincameras, he is premium priced but his gear is premium.


TenEleven 04-16-2019 21:06

A couple of observations, in no particular order:

-Those sellers are most likely not Chinese but Japanese I see a lot of them in Yahoo Auctions too and their Japanese language listings and ratings are "creative" as well. A favorite of mine was an M3 that looked like it had been scooped up from the ocean floor with an enlarger lens stuck on it. It sold for over 600 dollars. (72k yen)

-There was, a couple of years back, an "academy" in Japan for wannabe sellers how to sell on Yahoo and also internationally. It mainly focused on taking good pictures, using some templates and hyping up the description of the item.

-Recent hype of film cameras and film photography has let to a lot of people emptying out their drawers to unearth some true dogs which then get added to the circulation.

-Buying on a massive scale from both European/American and Chinese tourists in the Tokyo camera shops means that both the prices went up and the quality of the stuff has gone down.

-Furthermore, this is just a supposition, but none the less I believe that various re-sellers are buying items (rare, expensive) by the boatload and then selling the dogs back into the market in Japan which feels a bit inflated compared to the US/EU pricing

aizan 04-16-2019 21:30

what percent "discount" would you say kevin cameras averages? i was looking at something on their ebay account a couple months ago, and the same item was in their online shop for a little less, but they didn't even take an offer for that price! :rolleyes: :confused:

TenEleven 04-16-2019 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by aizan (Post 2882279)
what percent "discount" would you say kevin cameras averages? i was looking at something on their ebay account a couple months ago, and the same item was in their online shop for a little less, but they didn't even take an offer for that price! :rolleyes: :confused:

They probably can't because after PayPal and eBay fees it would be even less than that. I assume that the shop-listed price is for when you buy from him direct. And he probably gets less than the shop-listed priced after eBay fees.

I dealt with him and he is very conscientious and also very thorough if you have questions. I'd rather pay a little more than have to deal with the extra cost and the heartache of having yet another lens that doesn't focus right, isn't as described, doesn't work right, etc. etc... (dealing with that right now in fact ... :bang:)

mightbenow 04-16-2019 21:57

Whenever I've bought anything off ebay it's been from a US seller. If I were to buy say a Leica lens from one of these japanese ebayers, how does import and all that work? Do I have to pay customs fees or anything? e.g. Lens I buy is around $3,000 USD shipping from Japan to Washington DC.

tunalegs 04-16-2019 23:38

Gokevincameras is basically a disease of ebay. Lists things for four or five (or six, or seven) times the going rate - inspiring ignorant ebayers getting rid of dead grandma's old exkata lens to do the same. So a bunch of crap sits on ebay for months (or years) doing nobody any favors. They may be alright to deal with, but their effect on other sellers....


In the old car hobby we call these "crackpipe" prices.

WoodallP 04-16-2019 23:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by aizan (Post 2882267)
it all went to hell several years ago. the only seller in japan i bother with now is irohas.

shueido in taiwan is also good.


shueido in Taiwan is under discussion in another thread for the sales of brightly painted Canon Ps but has anyone ever bought a lens off him. He seems to have a lot of Japanese stuff at reasonable prices (compared to Europe) but everything is described as having small cleaning marks on the back or front element. Is this just done to protect himself in case of complaint or does he actually understate the problem? I have only bought lens hoods so far. He certain avoids phrases like "Mint+++++" which is reassuring (and I'm a person who loves mint sauce).



In spite of having purchased many excellent items from Japan, my problem is that if you buy something that comes just into the tax threshold then you are charged the tax (fair enough) then the shipping company add a (proportionately) large tax handling fee which boosts the price even more. Sometimes a bargain ends up more expensive than back home (I suppose I am just too used to buying within Europe with no extra taxes).


Of course some other countries tend to be more "creative" when stating value :-)

CharlesDAMorgan 04-16-2019 23:56

I've only ever used Japanese Ebay to get hold of things difficult to find here (such as Fujinon or Nikkor large format lenses). Even with shipping and taxes they have been decently priced and while I take all the mint+++++++++++ with a pinch of salt, they have been in good condition.

The reality is though that most stuff is egregiously overpriced and I get fair better deals from dealers in the UK. But the same applies to most of the stuff on Ebay generally. Let's not even start on the madnesses that are private sellers on Facebook Marketplace...

Solinar 04-17-2019 03:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by aizan (Post 2882267)
it all went to hell several years ago. the only seller in japan i bother with now is irohas.

Irohas rocks. I've purchased this seller a couple of times. The items were immaculate and arrived in less than a week.

jonmanjiro 04-17-2019 03:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by richardHaw (Post 2882251)
be careful. there are some mainland chinese sellers posing as japanese vendors. they have a physical presence here and they ship from here which makes it hard to detect. :eek::eek::eek:

Yeah that was my first thought as well.

Sounds like Yahoo Japan auctions... its gone to the dogs too and most (but not all) of the dodgy sellers seem to be Chinese.

Just ignoring any ebay auction with mint+++++++++++ in the description and any Yahoo Japan auction with musical symbols in the description filters out most of the dodgy auctions.

ASA 32 04-17-2019 04:16

Ditto irohas

splitimageview 04-17-2019 04:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by mightbenow (Post 2882281)
Whenever I've bought anything off ebay it's been from a US seller. If I were to buy say a Leica lens from one of these japanese ebayers, how does import and all that work? Do I have to pay customs fees or anything? e.g. Lens I buy is around $3,000 USD shipping from Japan to Washington DC.

Generally no, film cameras have no duties when shipped to the US, and most items shipped via post won’t have duties even if they are supposed to according to the harmonized tariff codes

Never had any duties for used camera gear and I’ve bought a wide variety from many countries over the years, much from japan

richardHaw 04-17-2019 05:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonmanjiro (Post 2882319)
Yeah that was my first thought as well.

Sounds like Yahoo Japan auctions... its gone to the dogs too and most (but not all) of the dodgy sellers seem to be Chinese.

Just ignoring any ebay auction with mint+++++++++++ in the description and any Yahoo Japan auction with musical symbols in the description filters out most of the dodgy auctions.

they have ruined the toy collectors market :eek::eek::eek:

i remember we having a discussion of some of these sellers.

these rats are the reason why I got into camera and lens repair :rolleyes:

wjlapier 04-17-2019 05:27

I don't know if it's a Chinese or Japanese seller. I take my time and and look over the photos carefully. Any seller with photos that can't be seen at a higher resolution I quickly move on. Interestingly, I have come across some Japanese sellers who describe their items as good condition and the item looks better than some EXC++++ items. Time invested pays. I also go back to the seller that sent me something that was as described or better. You can also ask them to look out for something too I found.

I have bought lots of stuff from Japan and only twice I had problems. Sent back a Leica M6 with a bent rewind shaft and got a full refund. Very apologetic seller. Lens with fungus and the seller refunded me my money and didn't require the lens be sent back ( it was a lens for Mamiya Universal ). The rest were all great.

twopointeight 04-17-2019 06:55

I haven't read every word of every post in this thread but making general statements about 'Japanese sellers' makes me uncomfortable. Obviously, there are many good ones and bad ones, everywhere.

splitimageview 04-17-2019 06:56

Whyso? The vast majority of Japanese sellers seem to follow a standard template with their listings, including layout, descriptions, wording, the use of '+++++++', among many other commonalities, even the orientation of the items in the photos.

WoodallP 04-17-2019 07:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by splitimageview (Post 2882330)
Generally no, film cameras have no duties, and most items shipped via post wonít have duties even if they are supposed to according to the harmonized tariff codes

Never had any duties for used camera gear and Iíve bought a wide variety from many countries over the years, much from japan


Hi, this is the opposite of what I have experienced but it may be down to the receiving country. I live in France and have made about five largish second hand purchases from Japan (lets say in the range $100-500) and each time I have been charged local purchase tax (about 20%) and on top of this the shipping company has added a transaction fee for collecting the tax, and then they have added tax on that too! One camera got stuck in customs and was returned to Japan and when it finally arrived back with me I had two transaction fees.



Typically Japanese sellers are very honest with marking valuations and state this in the advert,whereas some other sellers often advertise that they will send as "gift" or "sample". Japanese sellers will also tend to use top notch delivery companies that will insist on correct paperwork and deliver quickly whereas some other sellers will use cheap sea routes. In the end you get what you pay for I suppose.


In Europe Japanese RF equipment is not that easy to find so I often sit longingly looking at the Mint++++++ examples wondering what they would really cost me if I took the chance.


Phil W

PhotoMat 04-17-2019 07:23

Occasionally, I'll see an ad for an item described as "Mint" or "Like New", yet when I look at the product photos, they have the item placed on their patio masonry or concrete. For some reason, I remain doubtful. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

splitimageview 04-17-2019 07:23

No duties to the US, other countries vary. :)

Huss 04-17-2019 08:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by twopointeight (Post 2882354)
I haven't read every word of every post in this thread but making general statements about 'Japanese sellers' makes me uncomfortable. Obviously, there are many good ones and bad ones, everywhere.

So you feel uncomfortable but have not read the content?

Gotcha.

Moto-Uno 04-17-2019 09:53

^ :) , Peter


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