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-   -   CV 35/2 and 21/3.5 Concept M-mount Lenses at Photokina (http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166367)

retinax 11-28-2018 11:12

I don't understand how the sticks are supposed to work ergonomically. Only way seems to me to take the left hand completely off the camera and handle only the stick unless on is doing only a small focus movement, in only one direction with no chance to correct if one goes too far.

Erik van Straten 11-28-2018 11:14

Such "sticks" also have the tendency to stick to everything, button holes and the like. OK, if you can take off the stick from the lens and still be able to focus comfortably, nothing is wrong.

The modern half-moon handles on the Leica lenses are less of a problem. They are coated with soft plastic and do not cause damage, but these piercing sticks - no, thank you.

Erik.

nzeeman 11-28-2018 11:41

i would love that 35 - if its anywhere like ultron 1.7 it will ve perfect

rfaspen 11-28-2018 11:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. (Post 2851145)
I'm not sure why Cosina has to solve some of us problems.
Why it has to be in the bag like wild mushrooms is not clear to me.
Don't pretend to be old time professional, who has dropload or cameras and lenses in one dusty Domke bag.
It is 2018 and right now two M in my Domke bag separated by divider.
And lens pouch cost next to nothing.

I just can't imagine what someone still puts all of the gear in single space.
It is gross and unmature. Sorry for HO.

As for stick itself. It is Cosina tradition. My Ultron 28 1.9 has it. And so is original Skopar 35.

Kostya, I'm not sure I quite follow you, but you reminded me I need to take Yana out to hunt mushrooms before the deep frosts hit.

Cosina has in fact solved quite a few problems for us RF users :D. A big "thanks!" to Cosina. I really appreciate Cosina and Mr. K for what they've done for us.

I have never pretended to be an oldtime professional. Although I am old and I am a professional. I was once considered a "professional photographer" when I was young and stupid, but I felt more like a starving dog barely scraping together a living. Today I am a much different kind of professional (whew!).

I have never owned a Domke bag either, but I hear good things about them. Now that I think about it, I have never owned a "name brand" bag -- maybe I should try one out. My current no-name bags are starting to fall apart.

I absolutely agree that it makes sense to keep lenses and other kit nicely separated and organized in the bag, in 2018 or any other year. I definitely "baby" my cameras and lenses -- a good sign that I'm definitely not a professional.

I think you think I'm worried about the stick damaging gear in my bag (as Erik noted). That is not my issue at all.

My issue is: I have come to really like the half-moon tab that I have on most of my RF lenses. I have some CV lenses with the stick and I have learned that I hate using the stick. Its ergonomics for me.

In fact, one reason I'm interested in this new 21/3.5 lens is because my old CV 21/4 (LTM) has that dang stick and my huge Leica 21/2.8 is suffering from decentering. So instead of repairing the Leica lens, I may prefer to get the affordable and excellent new CV 21/3.5 lens. But only if it has a tab and not a stick :rolleyes:

And sure, some of my lenses don't have half-moon tabs. Those are usually longer lenses (physical and focal length) and have a wide focus ring. I would prefer a tab on those lenses, but its often impractical. Sometimes I make a tab for them (as I know you do Kostya ;)). I tried out the TAAB on a 90 and it was...OK. I had to give it (the TAAB) back to its owner and I just haven't been motivated to get my own.

Ko.Fe. 11-28-2018 12:37

Some will come with 3D printed half-moon tab...
Back to professionals, I asked here at RFF about Lux 50 with the stick which was used by one known film M photog.
To me this stick is still superior to 35 1.7 VM, which is superb optics in wrong body lens. IMO.

gavinlg 11-28-2018 12:40

You can still see the focusing knob in the press photos from dc.watch.impress


jsrockit 11-28-2018 14:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by retinax (Post 2851152)
I don't understand how the sticks are supposed to work ergonomically. Only way seems to me to take the left hand completely off the camera and handle only the stick unless on is doing only a small focus movement, in only one direction with no chance to correct if one goes too far.

It never even occurred to me that people wouldn't like the stick... I always took my left hand off the camera to focus any MF lens... your still supporting the camera with the stick. These lenses tend to have a short focus throw. One advantage (for example) is knowing that if the stick is at 6 o'clock, you are at 2 meters. Great way to guess for quick focus.

jonmanjiro 11-28-2018 14:46

CV 35/2 and 21/3.5 Concept M-mount Lenses at Photokina
 
Whats with the stick bias?! I like the stick 😛

So... I just bought a 35mm Ultron!

I have a Summicron 35mm Asph, Zeiss Distagon 35/1.4, W-Nikkor 35/1/8, W-Nikkor 35/2.5, and Summaron 35/2.8 I can compare the new Ultron with. Watch this space lol

bayernfan 11-28-2018 14:56

These two images show the interface between "stick" and body. I agree that an option to remove would be very nice.




bayernfan 11-28-2018 15:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonmanjiro (Post 2851192)
Whats with the stick bias?! I like the stick 😛

So... I just bought a 35mm Ultron!

I have a Summicron 35mm Asph, Zeiss Distagon 35/1.4, W-Nikkor 35/1/8, W-Nikkor 35/2.5, and Summaron 35/2.8 I can compare the new Ultron with. Watch this space lol

Nice! The excitement is building. :D

I'll probably snag one and put it up against:

Summicron 35/2 ASPH, Summaron 35/3.5 M-Mount, and MS-Optic 35/3.5 Perar :p

derekuu2 11-28-2018 15:39

It's nice that it has two focusing options: the knob for quick focusing and a ribbed ring for more precise focusing.

Erik van Straten 11-28-2018 16:01

bayernfan:
"I agree that an option to remove the stick would be very nice."

That would satisfy both worlds.

The stick on this lens reminds me of an dentists tool, a grinder.

My Ultron LTM 35mm f/1.7 has a big flat screw on the place were the Ultron LTM 28mm f/1.9 has a stick. I guess that on that spot a stick was planned too, but that on the last moment the wise decision was made to remove it.

It seems that someone at Cosina/Voigtländer is obsessed with sticks.

Erik.

aizan 11-28-2018 17:59

Go Team Infinity Lock!

davidnewtonguitars 11-28-2018 18:13

Ok, just to get your attention off the stick, I wish it was numerated in feet!

michaelwj 11-28-2018 18:22

If the stick is removable it provides a great place to mount a 3D printed brass focus tab, the angle of the barrel would make sure the tab doesn't rotate. Hmmmmm...

jonmanjiro 11-28-2018 19:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by aizan (Post 2851215)
Go Team Infinity Lock!


Mehhhh

Team Stick FTW !!!

The stick looks just like the sticks used on most of the LTM Voigtlanders. The LTM Voigtlander sticks can be screwed off, so I think the chances of being able to remove the stick from the new Ultron and stick on a tab in place of the stick is pretty high. Well, thats my stick story and Im sticking to it!!!

bayernfan 11-28-2018 19:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by aizan (Post 2851215)
Go Team Infinity Lock!

represent!

honestly, they all work just fine. i'm sure we all have our preferences when it comes to ergonomics. give it a week or two and you'll be workin that stick like a pro.

rfaspen 11-30-2018 11:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by bayernfan (Post 2851232)
represent!

honestly, they all work just fine. i'm sure we all have our preferences when it comes to ergonomics. give it a week or two and you'll be workin that stick like a pro.

I got some of them lenses with a stick (LTM 35/2.5 and LTM 21/4). I tried to work the stick (oh, that sounds bad :eek:), but I just learned to dislike them more with each use. I even had my "tiger claw" summicron converted to a half-moon tab (thanks Don G.) and that's less stick-like than the CV lenses.

If I see confirmation that I can convert those sticks into tabs (half-moon), I will amost certainly own both of these new lenses at some point in the near future.

BTW, I'm not trying to start a stick war here. Just saying I prefer tabs because I'm old and set in my ways...

eckhardf 11-30-2018 11:49

Tabs are fab...give the stick the flick!

Archlich 11-30-2018 11:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by rfaspen (Post 2851638)
I got some of them lenses with a stick (LTM 35/2.5 and LTM 21/4). I tried to work the stick (oh, that sounds bad :eek:), but I just learned to dislike them more with each use. I even had my "tiger claw" summicron converted to a half-moon tab (thanks Don G.) and that's less stick-like than the CV lenses.

If I see confirmation that I can convert those sticks into tabs (half-moon), I will amost certainly own both of these new lenses at some point in the near future.

BTW, I'm not trying to start a stick war here. Just saying I prefer tabs because I'm old and set in my ways...

I remember Kanto Camera Service of Japan introduced a service not long ago: custom building brass half moon tabs for 18,000 yen each plus service & handling.

Daryl J. 12-02-2018 14:24

I run a 25/4 Snapshot Skopar with a stick on a Leica 1F.
The stick is the handiest thing and makes for near-instant focus capability. The stick has caused no damage to anything, nor is the stick itself damaged.

Here is to Cosina sticking to the design as-is!

bucs 12-13-2018 11:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonmanjiro (Post 2851192)
Whats with the stick bias?! I like the stick 😛

So... I just bought a 35mm Ultron!

I have a Summicron 35mm Asph, Zeiss Distagon 35/1.4, W-Nikkor 35/1/8, W-Nikkor 35/2.5, and Summaron 35/2.8 I can compare the new Ultron with. Watch this space lol

Sample images please :D

jonmanjiro 12-14-2018 02:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by bucs (Post 2854990)
Sample images please :D

Shipments start sometime in January. I'll certainly post some images as soon as I get my Ultron!

jonmanjiro 12-15-2018 00:26

Now in English on Cosina's website!
http://www.cosina.co.jp/seihin/voigt...t/vm35mm2.html
http://www.cosina.co.jp/seihin/voigt...vm21mm3_5.html

lynnb 12-15-2018 01:30

I wish manufacturers would include the lens hood in the price.. can't imagine many users not wanting one. Anyway that's a minor quibble - the lenses look like catnip.

WJJ3 12-15-2018 03:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonmanjiro (Post 2855295)


Nice work Jon, these are exciting lenses. Looking forward to hearing about the Ultron!

Ko.Fe. 12-15-2018 04:45

Thanks for the English versions for these lenses. The problem is... They looks like ideal couple. :) I want both.

horosu 12-24-2018 01:10

They look like perfect rangefinder lenses: very small and portable.

If I'm not mistaken, they should be the smallest ASPH lenses for the M-mount.

Very much looking forward to them

sanmich 12-24-2018 01:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by k__43 (Post 2837941)
I had the ultron 35/1.7 II and hated the handling.. this one looks much nicer.
the question I'd have regarding focus coupling: does the 0.7/0.58m figures come from the cam actually "ending" at 0.7m? I hated that feature on the f/1.7 lens which went even further.
It always gave me a feeling of uncertainty when focusing close.
why don't they add a removable screw for all those digital shooters?

+1!
and 10 char

oldwino 12-24-2018 07:50

Too bad they are not LTM. Maybe we’ll see a special edition in LTM one day...

Erik van Straten 12-24-2018 08:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. (Post 2855318)
Thanks for the English versions for these lenses. The problem is... They looks like ideal couple. :) I want both.

The ideal couple for me would be a 35mm and a 50mm. I hope there will be a 50mm too.

Erik.

colker 12-24-2018 09:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erik van Straten (Post 2857165)
The ideal couple for me would be a 35mm and a 50mm. I hope there will be a 50mm too.

Erik.

Yes. They need a 50/ 2.0 asph. I need it. Light. Small. w/ 39mm filter thread. Sell it at 600$ and become the new king.

colker 12-24-2018 11:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erik van Straten (Post 2851153)
Such "sticks" also have the tendency to stick to everything, button holes and the like. OK, if you can take off the stick from the lens and still be able to focus comfortably, nothing is wrong.

The modern half-moon handles on the Leica lenses are less of a problem. They are coated with soft plastic and do not cause damage, but these piercing sticks - no, thank you.

Erik.

The half-moons are perfect. I still like a stick better than nothing. I need it.

aizan 12-24-2018 13:43

There already was a 50/2 Heliar in M-mount, but they haven't done the 50/2.5 Color-Skopar yet!

sleepyhead 01-08-2019 01:55

Has anyone seen any photos from these lenses yet? Particularly regarding the 35/2, I'm wondering if its "character" is "modern" or "vintage".

On one hand these are ASPH lenses (if I understood correctly), but on the other hand Voigtlander seems to have styled them in retro-looking barrels.

jonmanjiro 01-08-2019 02:06

For the 35/2, only the photos posted on the Cosina website (link below). For the 21/3.5, its the same as the Sony E-mount 21/3.5 and there's plenty of samples from that lens on the net. The "character" is definitely "modern" for both lenses. I'll stick my neck out and say that I expect the Ultron 35/2 to perform almost on par (or on par!) with the Summicron 35/2 ASPH.

http://www.cosina.co.jp/seihin/voigt...ple/index.html

nzeeman 01-08-2019 04:00

on the flowers photo from cosina site-do i see barrel distortion on window frame in background :( i hoped that it will be super corrected lens considering its not super fast...

jonmanjiro 01-08-2019 04:49

Hmmm not exactly the easiest shot to judge, but possibly. I prefer minor barrel distortion over the minor pincushion distortion of the Summicron 35/2 ASPH, but Nokton 35/1.4 level barrel distortion would be a major disappointment. We'll know soon enough!



The vertical frame along the right edge of this image looks straight. Fingers crossed!

nzeeman 01-08-2019 05:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonmanjiro (Post 2859989)
Hmmm not exactly the easiest shot to judge, but possibly. I prefer minor barrel distortion over the minor pincushion distortion of the Summicron 35/2 ASPH, but Nokton 35/1.4 level barrel distortion would be a major disappointment. We'll know soon enough!

The vertical frame along the right edge of this image looks straight. Fingers crossed!

yes i saw that-i really hope that it was just optical illusion on a first one... i think that no distortion plus not crazy high price would keep Cosina in a game as a real strong competitor in RF world.... keeping my fingers crossed!

kram 01-08-2019 13:39

If you want near to Zero distortion, get the Zeiss zm 35mm f2. Great lens. Horses for courses.


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