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Roger Hicks
06-23-2010, 05:19
Nothing to do with cameras. Or is it?

Most brandies, eaux de vie and whiskies are sold at 40% alcohol or less (as low as 37,5%).

Compare them with the real thing (cask strength) and they taste 'cardboardy'. Of course the weaker stuff is cheaper - it's diluted with (very cheap) water.

But I'd rather pay the extra, because the 'real thing' is simply better.

Quite unlike cameras, then.

Cheers,

R.

Thardy
06-23-2010, 05:31
Yes, nothing like cameras. ;)

hipsterdufus
06-23-2010, 05:46
I am no brandy expert, but I thought Paul Masson Grande Amber was a good brandy for the price. Of course, YMMV.

But generally with liquor, you get what you pay for. I've been getting into the Irish whiskeys lately. I particularly like Tullamore Dew 10 year. Scotch is still too "peaty" for my uneducated palate.

Of course, the next time I'm mixing a vodka/diet coke with (insert crappy vodka brand here) and some vodka snob comes up to me and goes off on the how awesome (insert expensive brand of vodka here) is, I'm going to flip out. When you're mixing liquor and diet coke, are you REALLY going to notice the difference in liquor quality? Especially enough to justify the price difference? In prohibition, mixers became popular to cover the taste of crappy moonshine. So why would I waste decent stuff on a mixed drink? Argh. Sorry about the rant, but it has happened to me way too much.

kevin m
06-23-2010, 05:50
Quite unlike cameras, then.

It is, actually. Liquor is the end product, a camera is just a means to an end. A photograph and your favorite beverage are a good comparison, as is an oak aging barrel and a button-rewind M2.

sig
06-23-2010, 05:59
The end product is me drunk. Unless the expensive alcohol makes me better drunk it is just more expensive. Much more important is the bar you sit in and the people around you. Have to say that it has been some time ago that the alcohol content has been the most important criteria when choosing the vessel that will bring me to Drunk.

There are of course thresholds in alcohol too, but if it is good enough it is good enough.

Keith
06-23-2010, 06:04
Pour a cheap brandy or any cheap alcohol into an expensive hand blown glass and it will taste exactly the same.

Attach a $500.00 Bessa body to the back of your Noctilux, Summilux, Summicron etc and you'll get exactly the same result a $4500.00 MP would have given you!

What does this all mean?

I have absolutely no idea! :p

Sparrow
06-23-2010, 06:04
Ironically, metaphor is often misunderstood on the interweb ... as is irony

PS except in Australia

PPS one can't put cheap gin in the freezer I've noticed

Rob-F
06-23-2010, 06:04
Don't know much about brandy, but when you are ready to talk single-malt scotch, I'll be here. I like The Glenlivet.

dfoo
06-23-2010, 06:05
The end product is me drunk.

You also just eat hot dogs then? If the purpose of drinking is to get drunk, the purpose of eating must be to be satiated.

typeguru
06-23-2010, 06:08
I'll take a nice old aged Lagavulin or a Laphroaig any time. Mmmmmm peaty!
But this is quite good too (see attached):

Now, let's see some Single Malt & RF photos!

rxmd
06-23-2010, 06:08
But generally with liquor, you get what you pay for.

There is a point of diminishing returns, though.

Of course, the next time I'm mixing a vodka/diet coke with (insert crappy vodka brand here) and some vodka snob comes up to me and goes off on the how awesome (insert expensive brand of vodka here) is, I'm going to flip out.

You have a point there, not because of the mixing with diet coke, but because vodka snobism makes no sense at all. In vodka, the quality marker is purity and that's it. I don't think it makes sense to spend more than $10-$15 for a bottle of vodka. (I don't know what it costs around where you live, but in Germany that gets you a decent bottle of Moskovskaya Kristall or Gzhelka. Here in Central Asia the market is completely different of course.)

Of course people will exhibit all sorts of snobbery based on price anyway, but this is really one of these cases where an expensive taste is more about "expensive" than about "taste". (And as a good friend has put it, and I tend to agree, after the first bottle it doesn't really matter what's in the second.)

As far as Roger's original statement is concerned, not all of us like to drink stuff at 60-70% all of the time, and the dilution may actually bring out some tastes that are overpowered by the alcohol at higher strengths. Tastes differ, of course, but I don't appreciate a cognac at 60% all that much.

And as usual the best liquors are those that skilled people make themselves and give to you in unlabeled bottles, and those aren't paid for in money, they are earned through friendship and good company.

Gazzah
06-23-2010, 06:09
I used to go surfing a lot on the north coast of Ireland at a plce called Bushfoot - basically the mouth of the river Bush., about 1/2 mile down stream from the Bushmills distillery. In the days before they sold out to Segrams they produced some wonderfull small batch distilations.. Maybe 50 bottles in a batch - I still have a few of the better ones stashed away.
The price was lower than the normal stuff in the shops because you were buying it from the gate/store/cleaner ... but I would gladly have paid a lot more.

I cant see the connection with cameras - except the enjoyment in using the product...

Gary H

sig
06-23-2010, 06:20
You also just eat hot dogs then? If the purpose of drinking is to get drunk, the purpose of eating must be to be satiated.

You do not eat hot dogs? If you have not tasted a good hot dog you have not lived......

sig
06-23-2010, 06:23
One of my favorite alcoholic beverages is a local beer called Rogers. And it has a tiny bit less alcohol than the average beer, and a bit more expensive.

kshapero
06-23-2010, 06:28
FYI - Lite beer is regular beer with water added. Now you know.

antiquark
06-23-2010, 06:30
Don't bother with the fancy glasses and swishing it in your mouth and such... just get to the damn point:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everclear_(alcohol) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everclear_%28alcohol%29)
:angel:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/d2/EverclearHiRes.jpg/300px-EverclearHiRes.jpg

amateriat
06-23-2010, 06:47
Alcohol has parallels with a few other fave indulgences here: some dig the journey, others concentrate on the destination. There's Sierra Nevada and there's PBR, a Nathan's hot dog at Coney (hey, someone brought up hot dogs here), and your house-brand pack o' franks at the supermarket, a Panasonic GF-1 and an iPhone...


- Barrett

Gumby
06-23-2010, 07:31
As far as Roger's original statement is concerned, not all of us like to drink stuff at 60-70% all of the time, and the dilution may actually bring out some tastes that are overpowered by the alcohol at higher strengths. Tastes differ, of course, but I don't appreciate a cognac at 60% all that much.

That's exactly right, and it's been done since the dawn of distilled spirits.

Although the liquor makers attempt to make a profit, cutting the "cask-strength" is not a budget stretching technique.

I'm sure that they are surfing the internet, looking for good ideas on how to make better liquor... from a photo forum. :rolleyes:

Gumby
06-23-2010, 07:33
Oh... if anyone wants an experience at "uncut" liquor, they should head to Winnipeg... it looks like 'antiquark' has something to share!

Roger Hicks
06-23-2010, 07:44
@ Thomas: Of course you're right. No-one would buy an inferior camera just to save money.

@ Hipsterdufus. Persist. Maybe you'll like Laphroaig one day. Or (and Laphroaig themselves admit it) maybe you won't. On the mixers, a good friend, for whose opinion I have much time, drinks Glenfiddich and Coke. I do not see a significant difference. She does. Dare I call her a liar?

@ Kevin. Sort of. Clearly to Sig alcohol is a means to an end (he is not alone: I have one or two quite good friends with the same world picture). But equally I'd rather use my MP than my R2. The R2 is a excellent camera. The MP is even better and nicer to use. Slightly the same @ Keith.

@ Stewart. You mean 'irony' is not synonymous with 'ferrous'?

@ Dfoo: Bourgeous plutocrat! What's wrong with sliced white bread and a glass of water?

@ RXMD: point fully taken about too-strong liquor but at least with whisky and brandy ageing has lowered it to 50-55% or so. I water cask-strength whisky but not brandy. As for vodkas, the appeal is almost all in the flavouring. I do an (infused) hot-pepper vodka (40% using cheap commercial vodka and fresh peppers with two sugar cubes/bottle) which is known to my friends has 'holy water', because the normal reaction on trying it is "Good God! What's that?" or "Jesus Christ!" Apologies to Christians for the blasphemy but those are the words I hear. My favourite commercial vodkas are Kubanskaya and Zubrowka.

@ Gazzah. Most of the best stuff I've ever had is home-distilled.

@ Sig: I must never have lived. The best hot dgs I've had have been... well... pretty good if you like that sort of thing. Personally I'll go for named meat every time.

@ Derek. Good for cleaning lenses too. I don't get to the US much any more so I use Slovenian alc. abs.: Prvovrstni Rafinirani ALKOHOL, Etanol 96%. Sometimes I give a small glass to those of my friends who say, "Oh, I drink anything..."

@ Barrett: Precise analogy.

Cheers,

R.

Jaques H
06-23-2010, 08:53
But I'd rather pay the extra, because the 'real thing' is simply better.


Cheers,

R.

And you simply must have the best.






Please support me. I am a starving artist. https://www.paypal.com/en_US/i/btn/btn_donateCC_LG.gif



...:rolleyes:

HuubL
06-23-2010, 09:59
I see room for several threads here la Coffee and Camera....
Booz and Camera,
Drunks and Camera,
Drunken Cameras,
Cameras in Booz...

hipsterdufus
06-23-2010, 10:21
Cameras in Booz...
That's what happens towards the end of a bad bender, HuubL. :p

Keith
06-23-2010, 14:11
I currently have my M8 immersed in brandy ... I remember my grandmother telling me if you put a lemon in alcohol it preserves it indefinitely!

NickTrop
06-23-2010, 14:30
Delicious Clamato juice (little known fact, "Clamato" is a portmanteau of "clam" and "tomato") is made with reconstituted tomato juice concentrate and clam juice. It carries, some would say, a steep price of $5.99 for a 64 ounce bottle. I personally would never foul a delicious glass of Clamato (Clam + Tomato) by mixing it with Paul Masson Grande Amber! So, I prefer to drink my Clamato straight. Some have taken to developing a DIY Clamato, the recipe can be found here: http://www.recipezaar.com/recipe/Clamato-Juice-Substitute-Homemade-Copycat-Clone-11774 I wouldn't do this! However, some do and enjoy delicious DIY Clamato. The same holds true for cameras.

sig
06-23-2010, 14:41
The price tag on the bottle is clearly important: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13580_3-9849949-39.html

To connect it to cameras. A 10 000 dollars leica mp is better than a 5 000 dollars one.......

jpa66
06-23-2010, 15:04
I agree with Roger. I also would rather pay the extra amount.

There's nothing wrong with being a "snob" as long as you concentrate on the product, and not the hype/marketing prestige. I love wine, and gladly drink wine that is cheap - as long as it's good, I don't care how cheap it is ( the less the better... ). That said, there certainly are a lot of cheap wines that I simply won't drink.

I agree with one of the posters that there is a law of diminishing returns. It also depends what your "poison" is. I can't stomach brandy or scotch - all of it tastes like cardboard to me. So it wouldn't matter how expensive it is - it would all taste "bad". My father, and also one of my best friends, loves scotch, and I can reliably say that my father ( as well as my friend ) NEVER drinks cheap scotch.

Since life is short, and should be enjoyed, why waste your time eating or drinking things that are only mediocre, when for a little bit more, you could have something truly worthwhile?

jpa66
06-23-2010, 15:09
The price tag on the bottle is clearly important: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13580_3-9849949-39.html

To connect it to cameras. A 10 000 dollars leica mp is better than a 5 000 dollars one.......

I've heard about that. I would guess that it's people's expectations that a high-priced wine should be "fantastic". I could care less. I've had expensive ( to me ) wines that I've not liked at all.

In my opinion, that study reinforces my perplexity at the fact that so many people give rave reviews to broadway shows that clearly are horrible. They spend their $100 dollars on a seat, and they are going to like the show no matter if it stinks or not.

Paulbe
06-23-2010, 15:20
Single malt--yum yum!
Generally good stuff-- and Glenlivet is an excellent taste for the money.
Of course, Macallan 25 is super, but it it currently $1000.00 for 750ml here locally.
A tad out of my price range---:-)
Paul

enasniearth
06-23-2010, 15:56
In general ---the next day you still have the camera , however the alcohol
Is gone. (unless the camera is lost while wandering the bars )

Graham Line
06-23-2010, 16:00
What was the question?

Teton Glacier is a nice sipping vodka. They are not all alike.

shimokita
06-23-2010, 16:03
Kubota Suijyu - this is worth the price anyplace anytime. It's a "nama" (unpasteurized) sake so it must be kept in the refer and thus is a limited export.

Casey

rbiemer
06-23-2010, 17:48
My family gathers together for Thanksgving dinner every fall and we have long enjoyed Green Chartreuse as our after meal tipple.
This past year we noticed that the proof had changed; we finished the bottle from the previous year and started another. The enjoyment was the same but the new bottle was marked as 110 proof (55%) and the prior years' bottle was marked as 180 proof (90%).
I've no idea why the Monks changed the product but I was just as pleased with it as ever.

On a sort of similar note, I had a customer at the last restaurant I worked for who never ate soup(mine or any one's) and he told me the reason why: "I'm not paying for flavored water."
He did not appreciate my pointing out to him that, by his "logic", he should eat bread instead of drink beer.:D
Rob

ferider
06-23-2010, 17:58
If you prefer it, pay the extra, drink the good stuff and enjoy it.

But why talk about it ? :)

And price and personal taste are often un-related. One of my favorite "Cognacs" is Armenian, which, if you can get it, is more affordable than the equivalent from France :)

Anyways, the best things in life are free.

Morca007
06-23-2010, 18:04
Excepting beer, alcohol all tastes the same to me, it tastes like drunk. Now the difference between a good sativa and a good indica, night and day...

wgerrard
06-24-2010, 12:51
Sometimes, differences exist. Blended scotch is made one way, single malts are made another way. If you can recognize the difference, and like it, I don't think it is snobbery to prefer a $60 single malt over a $15 blended scotch. (Whether that single malt merits a $60 price tag is a different matter.)

But, if you can't tell the difference, or if you just buy the most expensive scotch in order to be seen buying it, or if you really prefer the taste of that $15 scotch, then, well, you're a snob.

Same with cameras. If you understand why a new Leica is better than an iPhone and know how to exploit that difference, then buying one is not snobbery. But, if you don't know the difference and use the Leica as you used your iPhone, then that's both snobbery and silliness.

sojournerphoto
06-24-2010, 13:22
I drink cask strength malt, with a little water. There is a difference between adding the water and drinking immediately and adding it, chill filtering and bottling.

Having said that, one of the best malts I ever tried (to my taste) was a snifter of 28 year old sherry aged Highland Park just before it was bottled from 6 months in a port pipe. A very generous distiller bestowed the honour upon me:)

MIke

Steve_F
07-06-2010, 04:46
Islay malts for me - after much fun experimentation I have in 'stock'

Caol Ila, Laphroaig, Lagavulin, Talisker, Ardbeg (gorgeous) and a 15 yr old Bowmore.

All at various levels. Depends on the mood.

Always a nice way to round off the night and if the weather is right, sit out and enjoy with a Partagas cuban cigar....

Steve.

Ben Z
07-09-2010, 07:14
Nothing to do with cameras. Or is it?

Most brandies, eaux de vie and whiskies are sold at 40% alcohol or less (as low as 37,5%).

Compare them with the real thing (cask strength) and they taste 'cardboardy'. Of course the weaker stuff is cheaper - it's diluted with (very cheap) water.

But I'd rather pay the extra, because the 'real thing' is simply better.

Quite unlike cameras, then.

Cheers,

R.

Other than the fact people can turn anything into a way to laud the self-imagined superiority of their taste and discernment over other peoples', I don't quite see a close parallel between the inherent value of premium liquor and premium cameras. Even in the digital age where cameras depreciate sickeningly fast, it still doesn't compare with the speed a drink travels from mouth to bladder:D

kshapero
07-09-2010, 07:27
I grew up in Kentucky and the bourbon I drank behind the barn was a far cry from what you buy on the shelves today, and I have the missing teeth to prove it.

Renzsu
07-09-2010, 08:06
I'm into the Islay whiskies myself, although I have to say I enjoy some Irish single malts when I fancy something sweeter, but I have to say the 'cask strength' label doesn't mean much to me. I often find those too stingy and sharp and I end up putting some drops of water in them anyway. I prefer the regular bottles :)

oftheherd
07-09-2010, 08:47
Well, I don't drink any more. But I used to really enjoy Makuly. A Korean rice wine. Certainly not to everyone's taste. That or Soju really went well with cooked sea snails.

They photograph well too (had to add that of course).

oftheherd
07-09-2010, 08:48
I currently have my M8 immersed in brandy ... I remember my grandmother telling me if you put a lemon in alcohol it preserves it indefinitely!

The lemon or the brandy? :D

FrankS
07-09-2010, 09:22
I simply buy the best that I can afford, though I can never affort THE best. There are no ASPH lenses or premium liquors/cigars in my house. I'm fine with that because I know that the last 10% in quality will cost more than 100% more (diminishing return) and I am happy being financially responsible. I could never buy a $100 bottle of wine for example. Even if it did taste better, I wouldn't be able to enjoy it, knowing how much it had cost. Hope that makes sense.

FrankS
07-09-2010, 09:30
I can add to my thoughts above by saying that one of the reasons I enjoy vintage camera gear is that it allows me to afford THE BEST gear of that time period. Nikon F, F3, Rolleiflex, Hasselblad, OM4, M2, Summaron, collapsible Summicron, etc.

SteveM_NJ
07-09-2010, 09:50
kind of stating the obvious - but -
I also enjoy being able to purchase the past - "the best of their time",

i'm not so inclined to splerge on a hobbie, for "the best of current time".

(new Phase One P65+ digital back) far outside of my "hobby" comfort zone. Yikes.

but a film back for my 500cm - easy. (maybe first Generation digital back, not too bad)

Spleenrippa
07-09-2010, 10:03
Delicious Clamato juice (little known fact, "Clamato" is a portmanteau of "clam" and "tomato") is made with reconstituted tomato juice concentrate and clam juice. It carries, some would say, a steep price of $5.99 for a 64 ounce bottle. I personally would never foul a delicious glass of Clamato (Clam + Tomato) by mixing it with Paul Masson Grande Amber! So, I prefer to drink my Clamato straight. Some have taken to developing a DIY Clamato, the recipe can be found here: http://www.recipezaar.com/recipe/Clamato-Juice-Substitute-Homemade-Copycat-Clone-11774 I wouldn't do this! However, some do and enjoy delicious DIY Clamato. The same holds true for cameras.


Little known? Perhaps Clamato is not as pervasive in the 'States? I'm assuming you're in the US, of course.
Come to think of it, I do recall several occasions of not being able to get a Caesar whilst visiting Big Brother.
Poor, deprived Yanks! :cool:

mabelsound
07-09-2010, 12:38
I'll drink any old plonk, as long as I've got a nice camera.

JohnTF
07-10-2010, 10:32
Islay malts for me - after much fun experimentation I have in 'stock'

Caol Ila, Laphroaig, Lagavulin, Talisker, Ardbeg (gorgeous) and a 15 yr old Bowmore.

All at various levels. Depends on the mood.

Always a nice way to round off the night and if the weather is right, sit out and enjoy with a Partagas cuban cigar....

Steve.

Serendipity, I once picked up a few bottles of Laphroaig at the duty free in Vallarta, (they did not have Lagavulin), and when I got home, I noticed they had sold a Vintage Laphroaig, cask strength, for about $30, -- being honest to a human limit, I wished I had filled the carry on-- but it was a nice surprise. Have not seen one since, I believe the date was from the 70's.

My former boss wanted Cognac, because it was expensive, and mixed it with Coke to make it drinkable-- not uncommon I hear, but I refused to pay for such an abomination.

There are some fine estate produced Calvados, Huet as I recall, that can only be purchased by the bottle at the estate-- had the pleasure of an afternoon tasting the 40 year old aged in chestnut, and some 30 year old aged in oak.

The pruneau from an estate owned by the Earl of Brie, and formerly by Henry II (he died there), was quite nice, it is a B&B now, or should I say a Chambre d'Hote? Which is how we ended up there.

The good stuff should leave good memories.

I no longer drink to get drunk, but sometimes sleep rather well and quickly -- however, I am not going to let an open bottle of d'Yquem spoil.

Regards, John

Andy Kibber
07-11-2010, 16:14
I can add to my thoughts above by saying that one of the reasons I enjoy vintage camera gear is that it allows me to afford THE BEST gear of that time period. Nikon F, F3, Rolleiflex, Hasselblad, OM4, M2, Summaron, collapsible Summicron, etc.

I think you're on to something ...