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dee
05-19-2009, 02:45
I hope that Roger won't mind me responding to his musings in AP on the '' value '' of a camera and it's '' worth '' on the resale market .

I now have my Contax III [ or will have again when the meter glitch is sorted ] yet am having a Contax II shotgun wedded to a Kiev 2a and finished in silver and tan . [ marked inside as a Kontax ! ]

This is done by Mike Haley with CLA by Arsenal Techs in Ukriane - birthplace and factory of The Kiev ]
If I can overcome the hurdle of sending paint to Ukriane , [ I can't send solvent based paint it seems ] I will finish a Kiev 4 and Kiev 3 , without names and fnished in Metallic Blue -

Overall , on average , each camera with cost me 200 including the donors .

I might get somewhere near this for an original CLA Contax III , but the others will be worth roughly the 70 each that I paid for the donors.

I have dreamed of a Classic Camera , created to my specification for several decades - I was thinking of paying 1000 for a grey Leica IIIf painted in UK , but realised that I would use a Contax much more frequently .

My Kiev / Contax Creations - hopefully will NOT be worth selling when my savings run out during this extended enforced retirement .

I could never bring myself to buy a '' toy '' with a view to it's future value .

I hope that this is more lucid , ASD creates wobblies sometimes !

dee

35mmdelux
05-19-2009, 04:06
You lost me here.

kully
05-19-2009, 04:47
I agree with you dee, I am the same with my Leica IIIa, it's probably only 'worth' 100 but I'm still going to send it off for a 140 CLA and get a new covering.

After all of that it would only be 'worth' .. 140(?) to someone else, but much more to me.

dmr
05-19-2009, 04:51
You lost me here.

Lost?

Have you tried Hare Krishna?

Peter_Jones
05-19-2009, 04:55
That's it - buy a camera (or car/motorbike or whatever) without factoring CLA/servicing/running costs and buy to use rather than investing or planning on a quick profit. A lot of the classic cameras cost a lot less than a CLA or repair, but having a camera you know you will use and enjoy using far outweighs viewing with a cash value. All my cameras are worth more to me than their market value (especially the broken ones - I'm one of life's tinkerers) - not worth my while to sell them unless someone else will get more use from them.

Dave Wilkinson
05-19-2009, 05:00
Paint to the Ukriane??......think I'm lost to! :confused:

kully
05-19-2009, 05:04
Lost?

Have you tried Hare Krishna?

You have to love them - they're on a mission to change the public's perception of skinheads one clap at a time.

Sparrow
05-19-2009, 05:10
"The cynic knows the price of everything and the value of nothing."

dmr
05-19-2009, 06:36
You have to love them - they're on a mission to change the public's perception of skinheads one clap at a time.

LOL, I don't think you "get it." :) :) :)

dee
05-19-2009, 10:51
hmm - I have edited the original comment which is about the value of a camera / classic car to an individual , rather than monetary reward .. and have been soundly 'ead 'itted by our garage door tonite .

Roger Hicks
05-19-2009, 11:02
The original article was about what a camera is 'worth' to a user; a collector; a buyer; a seller... Dee has spent far more than his cameras are 'worth' (in the sense of what they would fetch on the open market) but has got excellent value in what they are 'worth' to him. And no, Dee, of course I don't mind; I'm flattered. That column is supposed to make people think, which may be why some hate it and others love it.

Tashi delek,

R.

Brian Sweeney
05-19-2009, 11:41
I'm not lost on this posting- and have often spent more on a camera because it is worth it "to me". I'll never get as much out in monetary terms as what was "sunk into it". But I'll certainly enjoy it much more than what it cost. Sometimes it is just to see a 65 or 70 year old camera actually working again, as it was intended to. People spend a lot of money on a lot of things that have little resell value. Dee will certainly enjoy her camera, and does not need to concern herself with cost.

MartinP
05-19-2009, 12:04
"The cynic knows the price of everything and the value of nothing."

I thought that was accountants ???

Sorry, cheap shot I know...
;)

dee
05-19-2009, 13:32
There's no accounting for everyone ... [ pun ]
Thanks Roger and Brian - it's difficult for me to go against the rules of Common Sense , due to the Autistic glitch - let alone the Miss Alignment / boy / girl stuff ... so it took a little stubborness to go with what is good for me -

The odd thing which Brian brought up is the age of some of these cameras - my Kievs are considered poorer copies of a Contax , made around 20 years later than the originals ... Yet how many complex cameras from the early 50s even 60s are still repairable and , given a little TLC , a delight to use ? Given the conditions under which a Kiev was Konceived , they are remarkably loyal if looked after ... even my Kiev 4m from the last few deserate years takes superb photos .

Ok , so would a 70s SLR , but not half as much fun !

JohnTF
05-19-2009, 13:44
LOL, I don't think you "get it." :) :) :)


Thought that was EST? ;-)


Actually, the OP sounds like an interesting experiment, as do many forays into the custom realm.

I have a lot of project cameras sitting about, many will not meet up with the proper restorative treatment during my tenure with them, but perhaps some will, am waiting for a meter / cla for an early CL, which is more expensive because the fellow evidently does not like to work on them.

I applaud the efforts to get the custom work out of Kiev, I know of people who have tried with varying success.

Regards, John

dee
05-20-2009, 00:39
...it's the '' varied sucess '' bit which Koncerns me ! LOL

BillP
05-20-2009, 01:51
Interesting, isn't it? I turn first to the back page of AP every time I pick it up. If it is the excerable "Ogden Chesnutt" or the repetitive and completely pointless Gabriel Fuchs I turn the page immediately...

Dee's point is an interesting one, and set me to thinking. Most of my possessions, or at least those more complex than a propelling pencil, are tailored or bespoked in some way - and why not? Personalisation is not about the engraving of "up to three initials of your choice", it is about making something personal to you because it makes it nicer, easier or just more fun to use. Every camera I own, thinking about it, has something added or adjusted, from grips to straps to coverings, or whatever. This may enhance the value, more likely it reduces it, but I buy to use, not to "invest".

Regards,

Bill

Brian Sweeney
05-20-2009, 04:01
Okay, for me it is converting the pre-war CZJ Sonnars into LTM.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3257/3086916553_eb39b17bbd.jpg

I could have bought a modern M-Mount Zeiss Sonnar for what I have into these lenses. But how many Uncoated Sonnars are in LTM...

JohnTF
05-20-2009, 08:14
...it's the '' varied sucess '' bit which Koncerns me ! LOL

Probably beats the odds in Vegas, but perhaps not by much. ;-)

Ukrainian group set up shop in Prague, specialized in reworked Kiev's, and the results were truly variable, and their stock was low. Big web site, small apartment. Red Snake skin Kievs, etc.

They did send my wonky Kiev 88 to their guys in the Ukraine, I specified I wanted a test roll, which came back with the properly adjusted and newly cloth shuttered camera, -- 12 shots of a map of Ukraine. Kiev USA had failed three times to fix the camera, it had frequent flier miles enough for an award trip.

I could then sell the camera with good conscience, and no poison pen letters or flames have come my way. ;-)

I got the idea that they were buying from the factory, and immediately tearing the cameras down and rebuilding them in interesting configurations, story was they worked there, or used to, and the major problems with 90's product was the rush to get them together and lack of quality control.

I know they can do good work, and really look forward to a successful outcome of your interesting endeavor.

Regards, John

JohnTF
05-20-2009, 08:19
Okay, for me it is converting the pre-war CZJ Sonnars into LTM.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3257/3086916553_eb39b17bbd.jpg

I could have bought a modern M-Mount Zeiss Sonnar for what I have into these lenses. But how many Uncoated Sonnars are in LTM...

Now this is cruel an unusual punishment, I demand you take this down immediately. ;-)

dmr
05-20-2009, 09:38
Thought that was EST? ;-)

Actually, it was a [email protected]$$ off-topic reference to the Muppet Movie. :)

dee
05-20-2009, 11:37
I bought a tarted up Zorki S from Arax - it went back too stiff to use and came back the same , then I noticed that the lens aperture ring is off ... now I am stuck with it 'cos he did not want to know ... I needs Oleging - but Kievs Kome 1st .

JohnTF
05-20-2009, 13:54
Actually, it was a [email protected]$$ off-topic reference to the Muppet Movie. :)


Sorry, dated someone who went EST and went to some parties with "Estholes" who were trying to convert everyone.

Shows the age difference I am afraid. ;-)

J