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View Full Version : Coding vs. No Coding


Ponsoldt
02-16-2008, 09:25
Has anyone done a test to see if the coding is worth it? By test i mean take a picture with it and then without it and see if there is any difference?

Also, what level of success has everyone had with the sharpie coding? I tried it but I guess I got the spots in the wrong place.

Bill

PS Anyone who wants to see how bad the magenta cast is should take a shot of their black billingham bag, assuming they have one. Apparently, the M8 does not like he polyester material because its magenta. The leather sections remain black.

cmogi10
02-16-2008, 11:05
Not sure about the coding but this is my favorite Magenta picture...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/Cmogi10/L1031403.jpg

Mike Ip
02-16-2008, 11:16
None of my lens are coded, nor do I plan on getting them coded. I haven't had any issues with non-coded lens.

sleeek
02-16-2008, 11:23
Not sure about the coding but this is my favorite Magenta picture...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/Cmogi10/L1031403.jpg
Looks like a party. Liquor, bong, bag of weed, beer, camera and a bowl of cereal.

Ben Z
02-16-2008, 12:17
I have IR filters on all my lenses, IMHO they are mandatory unless you want to tear your hair out in post processing, which I don't. All my lenses from 35mm and shorter are coded, which IMHO is mandatory for correcting the cyan corners unless you want to have to run every shot made with those focals through Cornerfix or PT Tools, which I don't. That all presumes you shoot in color. Maybe if all you shoot is in black and white you might not be upset by the IR thing.

However my total cost for coding seven lenses is.....zero, because I did it myself. Not with a magic marker either, I milled the slots for the black codes and filled them with auto touchup paint I happened to have. I didn't code any lenses 50mm or longer and don't plan on it. I don't care whether they are identified in EXIF. However because I leave "UV/IR" permanently "ON", one of my 50mm lenses had a screw which the code reader mistook for a code and it was a 90mm lens, so I put some white paint over the screw.

kbg32
02-16-2008, 12:24
I use IR filters, but not all my lenses are coded.

bourgogneboy
02-16-2008, 12:27
I find that the framing on my uncoded lenses is inaccurate. Would having them coded help?

abumac
02-16-2008, 14:45
I only have coded lenses wider than 35.

kbg32
02-16-2008, 15:03
I find that the framing on my uncoded lenses is inaccurate. Would having them coded help?

The coding of the lenses has nothing to do with framing.

bottley1
02-16-2008, 15:38
my snaps are boring and insipid, not to mention out-of-focus, over-exposed, and badly composed. Imagine how much worse they would be if the lenses were NOT coded? I shudder to think........

cmogi10
02-16-2008, 16:19
Looks like a party. Liquor, bong, bag of weed, beer, camera and a bowl of cereal.

Not my place! :angel:

POINT OF VIEW
02-16-2008, 17:56
Shoot in Raw, coding is not necessary. I have one factory coded lens ( tri Elmar ). I cant see any difference with detection turned on in JPEG, Bill

02-16-2008, 18:22
Coding? We don't need no stinking coding.

Doug
02-16-2008, 22:12
I suspect the importance of IR filters and lens coding depends on the use... Wedding & fashion photography obviously require this, but for landscapes or other uses in which black fabrics aren't an important element, then maybe it isn't necessary. Learn to love the occasional bit of magenta? :)

Hacker
02-16-2008, 23:04
I have no choice but to use them on all my lenses. Because I take people shots, even grey synthetics and shots with people and foilage will appear off with the strong magenta cast. Imagine a $450 lens with a Leica $150 filter. Crazy.

rbrooks
02-17-2008, 00:23
Coding costs have gone up at Leica. I sent mine in and they want something like 169 EUR just for the 6-bit. If you want it to focus on the M8 then there's more work they need to do so the cost goes up to 433 EUR for focus adj + 6-bit mount. Oh and add in the UV/IR filter to get the correct colors.

Ponsoldt
02-17-2008, 03:48
Does any uv filter do the trick or do you have to buy a special Leica one?

bottley1
02-17-2008, 03:54
I have Leica and B+W. Both the same in my opinion. I suspect B+W make the Leica ones???

bottley1
02-17-2008, 03:55
.....but I have been wrong before!

baycrest
02-17-2008, 05:05
I like coding my 35mm and wider lenses.

It provides the exif on the focal length of the lens used and "automatically" reduces vignetting. The first is kinda nice if you are accustomed to having that data on the DSLRs, the second you can compensate in post, with a few more key strokes.

"B+W 486 ir cut filters" are about half the price of the Leica counterparts:eek: . If you are using Zeiss, CV or Rollei lenses, then you might not have a choice as Leica only produces filters in sizes that fit their lenses.

I used the 2 "free" Leica filters but have bought the more reasonably priced B+W otherwise. For my needs, I don't see any difference between the two. These filters are useful to get rid of the Magenta colours and seems to make other colours more accurate as well.

You can buy B+W online at places like Adorama, etc at reasonable prices.

Cheers,
Rob

maggieo
02-17-2008, 15:25
I've found that below 40mm or so, coding is a very good thing, especially if you want to avoid having to use CornerFix. Here's a CV 28mm, uncoded and then coded:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2125/2091839568_45a169cb61.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2087/2091231333_64ce1a43d7.jpg

GrahamWelland
02-17-2008, 18:42
Snow, fog or cloud really show up the color vignette ... CornerFix works well if you don't mind the post-processing. Arguably it's better than Leica's implementation because you can tune it and the profiles are based on the characteristics of YOUR lenses and not a generic for the lens type.

willie_901
02-17-2008, 20:07
I suspect the importance of IR filters and lens coding depends on the use... Wedding & fashion photography obviously require this, but for landscapes or other uses in which black fabrics aren't an important element, then maybe it isn't necessary. Learn to love the occasional bit of magenta? :)

Doug

When I view photographers' portfolios of IR film photos, I notice vegetation often gives a strong IR response. Why wouldn't the greens in vegetation be in error in landscape color photos from a M8 without IR filters on its lenses?

Willie

Doug
02-17-2008, 21:14
Why wouldn't the greens in vegetation be in error in landscape color photos from a M8 without IR filters on its lenses?I don't know, Willie... are vegitation colors off?

GrahamWelland
02-18-2008, 03:21
I don't know, Willie... are vegitation colors off?

I'm not Willie but the answer is yes, vegetation does take on a hue without the IR filter and it's a great reason for filters on all lenses.

02-18-2008, 06:54
When I view photographers' portfolios of IR film photos, I notice vegetation often gives a strong IR response. Why wouldn't the greens in vegetation be in error in landscape color photos from a M8 without IR filters on its lenses?

Willie

Although the M8 has no IR blocking filter it is not sensitive to the IR range the human eye cannot see 700-1700 nanometers (approx.) without an IR filter on the front of the lens. These filters are what renders the white you see from chlorophyl in the plants. Don't confuse an IR filter with an IR cut filter, one allows the sensor to see IR spectrum the other blocks it. Attached is an example of a B&W IR shot with the M8 and a Hoya IR72 filter on the front of a Canon 55 mm F1.2 FE lens converted to M.

Ben Z
02-18-2008, 06:56
I'm not Willie but the answer is yes, vegetation does take on a hue without the IR filter and it's a great reason for filters on all lenses.

I concur. Most of my shooting is outdoors, in fact I rarely shoot "black synthetic fabrics". The effects of the M8's IR sensitivity is much more rampant and widespread than "occasionally with black synthetic fabrics" and maybe it's time Leica stopped trying to downplay it.

sleeek
02-18-2008, 13:45
I concur. Most of my shooting is outdoors, in fact I rarely shoot "black synthetic fabrics". The effects of the M8's IR sensitivity is much more rampant and widespread than "occasionally with black synthetic fabrics" and maybe it's time Leica stopped trying to downplay it.

I still haven't bought an IR filter and I shoot with the M8 every day. The magenta cast only happens every once in a while when there is synthetics in the shot. I want to get a filter, but don't want it to change the look of the image if I decide to go black and white. http://www.p45plus.typepad.com

Ben Z
02-19-2008, 08:34
The magenta cast only happens every once in a while when there is synthetics in the shot.

I agree that magenta only happens to black fabrics. I have travel pictures of cars with magenta convertible tops. But I also have pictures, made when I was hoping not to have to use IR filters all the time, of bright green palm fronds which the M8 rendered a sickly pinkish-purple. Also dark green foliage which the M8 rendered a light greenish-yellow. The magenta convertible tops, and clothing, are relatively easy to correct (magnetic lasso in CS2 and then desaturate) compared to the foliage. Those shots were trashed. It may have something to do with the quality of sunlight, as well as the IR reflection characteristics of the subject, which would account for why some people shoot outdoors without filters and claim they've never seen a color perverted.

jaapv
02-19-2008, 09:38
I have Leica and B+W. Both the same in my opinion. I suspect B+W make the Leica ones???
No they don't, and the are a bit p***** **f with it.

willie_901
02-19-2008, 22:18
Doug,

Like many rangefinder camera users, I was excited about the M8. About 12-14 months ago, before most M8 owners were using IR filters, I viewed numerous M8 images from a variety of sources. To my eye, the color in general looked off in many of those photos. This subjective impression is consistent with published empirical data (see below). When IR filter usage became more common, I noticed the M8 color images I viewed seemed more normal to my eye.

So, yes, I thought there was a problem with IR contamination in general that went beyond the black/magenta issue.

Ever since, I've been puzzled that no one mentioned/discussed that green color fidelity could be a problem as well (especially in landscapes where IR reflectance from direct sunlight should be high).

Luminous Landscape's early M8 review (http://luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/leica-m8.shtml)
published color gamut comparisons (figs. 1 &2) where the greens (and of course the reds) had an unusually spiky response. This type of response is consistent with IR contamination. Some early reviews seemed to simply miss this fact. Others intentionally ignored it because the reviewer(s) earnestly believed Leica would address the problem before the production cameras were released.

I have to conclude from the anecdotal responses in this thread and from the data published by LL, that a M8 without IR filters can also produce erroneous greens when a significant amount IR light is present.

For color work filters and coded lenses (for wide angle lenses only) seem mandatory.

But then I believe RAW is mandatory for digital photography with any camera, and millions of people are very pleased with their jpeg images.

willie

ChipNovaMac
02-20-2008, 01:02
I will add that in my limited tests, I will support (at least with my lenses) what Sean Reid mentions in his reviews - that wider than 35mm coding is needed. So far in my limited shooting with the CV lenses using the LTM8 adapter the results have been better coded than uncoded (15, 21, and 28). I have given up on my 35mm for use on my M6TTL. Otherwise my 50 and 90 do well uncoded so far.

Doug
02-20-2008, 01:04
To my eye, the color in general looked off in many of those photos. This subjective impression is consistent with published empirical data (see below). When IR filter usage became more common, I noticed the M8 color images I viewed seemed more normal to my eye.

So, yes, I thought there was a problem with IR contamination in general that went beyond the black/magenta issue.
...
For color work filters and coded lenses (for wide angle lenses only) seem mandatory.Interesting, and a bit discouraging... thanks!