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mtokue
03-11-2005, 02:35
Don't kow if anybody here is interested but Japan Camera (Photo Magazine Publishers) have just published a new book devoted to the RD-1. Yes it is in Japanese the title is "EPSON RD-1 WORLD" Their link is:

http://www.nippon-camera.com/shoseki/2371.html

A4, 128pages and costs 1,995 yen approx 11 GBP

Mike

Ed Schwartzreic
03-11-2005, 03:31
FWIW there has been this book on eBay for months, but only available to Taiwan. Probably not the same book.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=30020&item=3879424973&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

Ed

nf3996
03-11-2005, 03:35
The Japan Camera book does look interesting. I can't read Japanese (but I have a couple of friends who can), but I'd be interested in seeing a copy. I wonder if it's available to the UK . . .

mtokue
03-11-2005, 03:48
FWIW there has been this book on eBay for months, but only available to Taiwan. Probably not the same book.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=30020&item=3879424973&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

Ed

Hi Ed, Just had a look at the link, Unless I'm Very much mistaken the guy in Taiwan is selling the first Japanese Brochure for the RD-1, I have one and the cover is the same, They have since brought out a second brochure which is in a Landscape format and printed on heavier paper and is more reminisient of a gallery pamphlet.

Mike

mtokue
03-11-2005, 03:54
If someone wants to persuade me to ship a few out I might consider putting a few up on e-bay, But remember it is in Japanese.
Or even the Japanese Brochures for the Camer itself.
The postage shouldn't amount to much via air mail.

Mike.

Ed Schwartzreic
03-11-2005, 04:07
Mike,
I'd be interested
Ed

mtokue
03-11-2005, 04:41
Any Ideas as to how to go about this, e-bay or privately ???
I could include the brochure when posting and I'll just include the cost of a beer for my troubles, Is that reasonable??

Mike.

driggett
03-11-2005, 06:48
I can not seem to translate the web page using babel fish. It also comes up in my brower as gibberish although other Japanese and chinese web pages come up fine. Anybody now what gives?
Thanks,
Chris

nf3996
03-11-2005, 06:49
Mike,

I'd certainly be interested in both the Japan Camera book and the Japanese brochure.

Regards,

Alan

mtokue
03-11-2005, 08:34
Hi Chris, I think you get gibberish because some of the page is made up of grafical images rather than plain text try the discription on this page.
http://www.nippon-camera.com/shoseki/sinkan.html#2371
This is the page where you can place an order if you are in Japan.
I just went out to my local "Tsutaya" ( a 24hour Video/Sales _Rental CD and Bookshop)
and found two copies apparently they got them in on Thursday.
Quite nice lots of pictures. Short Discription as follows:

Starts with some nice fullpage Pics
History of the Development Nice pics of prototypes, Cutaways etc
I'll do some low res scans ( would that be illegalI wonder?)
Basics on the opperation of the RD-1
Then a really quite good section on lenses and some tests including Zeiss lenses
A quite detailed table of Compatable lenses lenses inc Russian and chinese lenses
Some more Pictures with some prime lenses
A section on using the software
A section on using other 3rd party software
More Photos & printing guide
couple of pages on using other accesories like Visoflex and self timers etc
Then the typical Japanese unexplainable 4-5 pages at the end
Here they have put together a Photoessay? - Comic like storyboard in B/W
What they have done is put a minidesktop tripod on the RD-1 and some hands
and made a character out of te Camera that tells the reader about allof his"Merrits"
Weird for an otherwise quite decently put together Publication.
Some quite good shots of the Camera in Pieces and the rangefinder etc.

Mike

Ed Schwartzreic
03-11-2005, 08:48
Mike,

if you take PayPal then payment in whatevere currency is easily arranged. I have got several books from a friend in Japan this way.

Ed

mtokue
03-11-2005, 09:07
That works for me, I can accept Paypal in the UK in STG/GBP.
so If any other members would like me to send out to them via AirMail

1x Japanese EPSON RD-1 World (BOOK)
1x Japanese EPSON RD-1 Brochure

It will cost 11GBP + Cost of 1 Beer 2.50 GBP + Air mail (Depends where you are)
I have left a message for backalley photo to get his Blessing so all will be dependant on that .

Please post a reply with your name and your location.
I figure that Ill wait untill Monday then place an order for the whole lot
then ship them out all together.

Mike

Jim Watts
03-11-2005, 09:44
Mike,
Drink in Wetherspoons pubs next time your back in the U.K. Your get nearly 2 beers for 2.50. :D

driggett
03-11-2005, 09:51
Mike,
Count me in for both. I live in Northern California so please send me the price in US dollars and I can send you the payment via paypal.
Thanks,
Chris

jlw
03-11-2005, 09:59
I wonder if there's a prayer that there will ever be an English translation of this book...? I'd love to read the development history and lens info.

mtokue
03-11-2005, 10:13
Jim, I know the prices in the UK but do you know the price in Japan?
1 can of beer (non import) is 1.50GBP.
A Pint (almost) of beer at Happy hour in a Japanese joint is 2.50GBP
1 can of imported beer is 2.50-4 GBP
A Beer in an "Western Pub" 5-10GBP
its very expensive over here,
Cigaretts on the otherhand are only just under 2quid for a pack of 20
Its almost as if they want you to smoke yourself to deth over here!!
Mike :D

mtokue
03-11-2005, 10:20
Anyway here are a couple of low res scans
1 is the cutaway model of the RD-1
2 is Parts of the RD-1
3 is the RD-1 with the Visoflex.

Mike

Jim Watts
03-11-2005, 10:27
So if you buy an R-D1 at about 1,250 in Japan you can have 3 :) Happy Hours with it as well for the same price as in the U.K. where you get no :( Happy Hours with it.
Mmmm

You edited the 250 to 2.50. I could now have 300 Happy Hours with an R-D1. It gets more tempting by the minute, or is that the Hour. :confused:

mtokue
03-11-2005, 10:37
Jim, Thanks for pointing out the typo.

Ed Schwartzreic
03-11-2005, 13:12
Does 20 GBP to the US sound right?

Ed

jlw
03-11-2005, 14:04
Anyway here are a couple of low res scans
1 is the cutaway model of the RD-1
2 is Parts of the RD-1
3 is the RD-1 with the Visoflex.

Mike

Thank you very much for posting these.

Is there any chance you could resave them in something other than BMP, such as maybe JPEG? They look very grainy, and I suspect this is because of the indexed color of the BMP format.

mtokue
03-12-2005, 05:44
Some better scans!
Mike

David Kieltyka
03-12-2005, 09:03
I've gotta say the idea of using a Visoflex on the R-D1 appeals to the Rube Goldberg in me. :D

-Dave-

nf3996
03-14-2005, 03:16
Mike,

I'm in the UK and can pay you by PayPal - I'd like a book and a brochure.

Regards,

Alan

mtokue
03-17-2005, 09:47
OK People Last call for the book.
Costs are GBP 18.50 to the UK, Canada and US
I can accept payment via Paypal.
The Book and RD-1 Brochure will be sent Via Air Mail and should reach you
in 5-7 days depending on where you are located.
Thus far I have requests from the following:
Ed, nf3996(Alan) and drigget(Chris)
If there is anybody else please send me a message with your details.
Thanks
Mike.

jlw
03-17-2005, 10:16
Mike, I see you're online, so check your PMs. I just sent you the info. Thanks!

Sean Reid
03-17-2005, 11:21
Mike,

Thanks for those diagram pictures. Is there any chance you speak Japanese and can translate the names they're using for the parts in front of the sensor? I'm very curious to know. If not, can anyone else translate?

Sean

mtokue
03-17-2005, 12:11
Hi Sean,
You are in Luck! Yup I am Half Japanese-Half Scottish! Phew Got that out the way.
I have attached the Cut away Diagram with appropriate Translations.
As per-usual there are times where Japanese Just can not be Literally Translated.
Otherwise it ends up sounding like Hot air. (ie the little paragraph at the bottom!
Cheers
Mike.

Sean Reid
03-17-2005, 12:59
Mike,

Fascinating!...thank you. I'll wait to hear Epson confirm this but it looks like the camera isn't using any unusual kind of lens arrays, etc. in front of the sensor to address the acute angle of light delivery (towards the outside of the image circle) created by many RF lenses. *That* would explain why the vignetting (with certain lenses) is not more moderate on the Epson. Unofficial, of course, but it confirms a hunch I've had for months. It seems to me, at the moment, that there was no engineering breakthrough (per se) in the optical path components between the rear lens element and the CCD. It looks to be a standard DSLR set up. That has fascinating implications, in my mind. If it's true it means that any number of manufacturers could build a digital rangefinder that performs at least as well as the R-D1 (in terms of light fall-off) using ordinary and existing CCD related components. If I confirm this info. with Epson, I want make it into a special section of the next lens review. Fascinating.... Of course another manufacturer could be experimenting with more complex designs to address the light fall-off challenge.

Sean

RML
03-17-2005, 21:51
Of course another manufacturer could be experimenting with more complex designs to address the light fall-off challenge.

You mean Leica, or Zeiss, or even perhaps Nikon...? :)

Sean Reid
03-18-2005, 10:47
I mean Leica.

Cheers,

Sean

mtokue
03-18-2005, 11:14
Hi Sean, Regarding your coments about " it looks like the camera isn't using any unusual kind of lens arrays, etc. in front of the sensor " I'm not sure but on the next page in the book they talk about a"Micro lens array" in front of the CCD to compensate for the difference in Flange back and Backfocus between Rangefinders and SLR's.I will scan and upload the page ASAP.
The "Micro Lens array" looks like it is a very thin sheet placed directly infront of the CCD. Perhaps it is even the same as the Optical Low Pass Filter mentioned in the Camera Cut away.
Anyway I will upload the page in a few moments.
Mike.

mtokue
03-18-2005, 11:25
Here is the afforementioned Scan of the page. There is a photograph of the "Lens Array"Third from the top on the right.
Hope this helps.
Mike

mtokue
03-18-2005, 11:29
Sorry heres a slightly larger scan

mtokue
03-18-2005, 11:42
The Text basically goes through the principals of light traveling through the lens and explains how thers is a difference in the image circle due to the flangeback and backfocus gap between RF & SLRs and the size of the sensor. and the "Macro Lens array also helps the RD-1 to have a greater dynamic range compaired to other digitals using the same sized sensor.
The following page has Kodak Grey Charts showing differences in noise and sensitivity to white tone/ overexposure latitude ??. Let me know if you want me to up that page aswell.
Mike.

driggett
03-18-2005, 11:51
Mike,
Would you please translate the diagram showing the light rays going thorugh the micro lens. I want to know what is on the r-d1 and what is not.
Thanks,
Chris

mtokue
03-18-2005, 11:51
Should have read it through first the "Macro Lens Array" is discribed as being " On Chip" and there is apparently a color filter between it and the sensor.

mtokue
03-18-2005, 12:27
OK Here is the Translation of the diagram showing the light path to the CCD in the RD-1's "Special" Macro lens array and to the CCD of other Sensors.
Mike

Oh and sorry for the spelling and typos!! :p

Ed Schwartzreic
03-18-2005, 12:53
Mike, this is really helpful. Further translation of anything that you think might not be obvious to non-Japanese speakers who are also photographically, digitally, and optically literate will facilitate our understanding and enjoyment of this book.

Ed

jlw
03-18-2005, 12:53
Mike,
It seems to me, at the moment, that there was no engineering breakthrough (per se) in the optical path components between the rear lens element and the CCD. It looks to be a standard DSLR set up. That has fascinating implications, in my mind. If it's true it means that any number of manufacturers could build a digital rangefinder that performs at least as well as the R-D1 (in terms of light fall-off) using ordinary and existing CCD related components.

I'd think that the shorter flange-to-film distance of a DRF camera would require a more refractive microlens array than needed on a DSLR to achieve the same effect.

(In other words, light rays hit the edges of a DRF imager at a steeper angle than they do in a DSLR sensor, so the microlens needs to apply more "leverage" to straighten them out.)

That causes me to suspect that while any DSLR manufacturer could do it, they could not do it using their existing microlens design.

I also suspect that the challenge of designing this microlens may be one of the things that's adding challenges to the development of the putative Leica "digital M." The more you have to bend the light, the greater the risk that it won't go where you want it to (aberrations), so doing a better job of imaging than Epson and doing so over a full 24x36mm sensor area are likely to be a tall order for the designers!

Sean Reid
03-18-2005, 13:16
Hi jlw,

Well, as you know, I wrote in some detail about that very subject in my last lens review. I'm intrigued by those diagrams but will hold off on any conclusions until after I speak with Epson next week. This aspect of the camera is our main topic. Leica is indeed working on this issue for the digital M and I have some involvement in that project that I can't discuss. But Leica is certainly taking the issue very seriously.

Cheers,

Sean

driggett
03-18-2005, 14:37
Mike,
Thank you very much for your hard work. If you are ever in the S.F. bay area I will treat you to a good beer or wine.
Thanks,
Chris

mtokue
03-18-2005, 15:14
Chris, thank you, It was/is a pleasure.
And vice a versa, Do look me up if you are ever in Japan!
Although the Software Engineers I work with usually consider me a right pain in the rear!!

Cheers
Mike.

driggett
03-18-2005, 15:21
Mike,
The you must be from the dark side (Marketing) or QA. I love QA people they may give me ass pains all day long, but marketing that's another story.....;-)
Cheers,
Chris

mtokue
03-18-2005, 15:59
Chris, I am from the dark side, The Very Dark Side,
Security and Compliance Consulting. mainly
in the financial sector. (Read Devils Spawn!!)
But I think I'm a nice Guy........... :angel:

Cheers
Mike.

driggett
03-18-2005, 16:05
Mike,
Interesting, I will only say one word on the type of product I build. IPS!
I wear a black hat.
Cheers,
Chris

mtokue
03-18-2005, 16:22
Hmm.... Very interesting.......What a small world we live in.....
I probably spend half my working life educating/pursuading my
Clients on the absolute neccesity of what you build!!...CrEePy....

Mike

Sean Reid
03-18-2005, 16:46
Hi Sean, Regarding your coments about " it looks like the camera isn't using any unusual kind of lens arrays, etc. in front of the sensor " I'm not sure but on the next page in the book they talk about a"Micro lens array" in front of the CCD to compensate for the difference in Flange back and Backfocus between Rangefinders and SLR's.I will scan and upload the page ASAP.
The "Micro Lens array" looks like it is a very thin sheet placed directly infront of the CCD. Perhaps it is even the same as the Optical Low Pass Filter mentioned in the Camera Cut away.
Anyway I will upload the page in a few moments.
Mike.

Hi Mike,

Thanks for all the great info. The micro lens array and the low pass (AA) filter are generally two different animals. Having some kind of micro lens grid is normal for digital cameras. The interesting question would be what, if anything, they did to make the micro lens array work with RF lenses. I'm just thinking aloud with all of this, so please don't anyone quote me. Once I talk with Epson and look at some diagrams they're supposed to be getting me I'll have a better idea of what's really going on in there. Interesting stuff....

Sean

driggett
03-24-2005, 14:49
Mike,
Just got mine this minute. Thanks for sending it so fast. It looks great. Now if I could only read japanese.
Thanks,
Chris