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View Full Version : Help! I have killed my ccd!


driggett
02-17-2005, 07:10
Yesterday night I opened the shutter and saw a couple of dust specs on the ccd. I took my squeeze blower and removed most of them except one. I then took my "sensor swap" and tried to wipe it off when the sensor swap caused streak and hopefully not scratch marks. I thought I did not have to apply the fluid but I guess I was wrong. I took a couple of shots to see how bad it is and I coulod not see the streaks or scratches.
So my question is should I go and get the sensor swap solution and try to clean it again or bite the bullet and send it off to Epson?
One Homer Simpson feeling person here.
Thanks,
Chris
:bang:

driggett
02-17-2005, 07:17
Just got off the phone with Epson and they said try the solution. If that does not work then give them a call back and if need be I can send it to them and they will fix it free because it is still under warranty. Now that is mighty nice of them.
Thanks,
Chris

Natalia
02-17-2005, 07:18
never dealt with Epson products. I am sure folks here will try to help. You could also read through some posts here:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/forum.asp?forum=1013&page=2

Kin Lau
02-17-2005, 09:30
I know I have dust on my 300D sensor, but the only time it shows up, is at apertures greater than F16. I can't see it on any other shots.

I've heard that Canon Canada will clean it for free, 5 min's if you walk into their main depot.

krimple
02-17-2005, 19:52
I've owned digital SLRs for three years now and also have and mostly now shoot the R-D1.

I have a box of sensor swabs and the Eclipse fluid. I use it maybe two times a year on my DSLRs, and I've used it one time so far on the R-D1.

Follow the instructions exactly. Basically you put two drops of fluid or so on the swab, wipe in one direction with moderate pressure on the CCD, and then turn the swab around and wipe back the way you came again.

That will usually do it, and especially with the R-D1 there isn't a ton of f/16 shooting with that beast. I save macros for my SLR, so consequently I don't see much dust unless I'm at f/11 or so.

Knock wood, but four cameras later I haven't had a scratch. Of course I usually use the blower a few times before resorting to cleaning the sensor. Usually they have an anti-alias filter in front, which keeps the actual CCD from scratching, so you probably didn't do a ton of harm. The trick is NEVER to swab it dry as you can just rub a hard dirt particle along the surface with nothing to lube it and avoid scratching.

I wish you good luck and hope it's just a streak and not a scratch. BTW, if anything, the R-D1 is cake to clean the sensor on, due to the lack of a mirror box.

Ken

Natalia
02-17-2005, 20:00
found the Copperhil method. I use it with great success on my 20D.

http://www.pbase.com/copperhill/ccd_cleaning

Tom Conte
02-17-2005, 20:35
Just curious, but the R-D1 doesn't have a sensor cleaning mode that locks the shutter open.

What did you do, put it in B and hope your finger didn't slip?

I'm really close to buying a Visible Dust sensor brush. $100, but who cares if it works reliably and easily.

Tom

JonasYip
02-17-2005, 21:36
The Visible Dust sensor brush works quite well indeed. I haven't used it on the R-D1 yet, but it cleaned up my D1X sensor that had I had never cleaned* (3 years!) with no problem.

* Dust has never really been a problem for me, probably because I tend to shoot wide open a lot...

j

krimple
02-18-2005, 04:19
Tom,

lol!

Since the camera is so small, I set it in 'B', lock my thumb around the shutter button and use my right hand to clean the sensor. No, the Epson does not have a cleaning mode. Go figure!

Ken

Just curious, but the R-D1 doesn't have a sensor cleaning mode that locks the shutter open.

What did you do, put it in B and hope your finger didn't slip?

I'm really close to buying a Visible Dust sensor brush. $100, but who cares if it works reliably and easily.

Tom

gns
02-18-2005, 05:30
How can the aperture setting affect the appearence of dust on the sensor?
Isn't this the same as having dust on your film when it is exposed (a common issue with sheet film)?

JonasYip
02-18-2005, 09:26
> How can the aperture setting affect the appearence of dust on the sensor?
> Isn't this the same as having dust on your film when it is exposed (a common
> issue with sheet film)?

I guess because of the angle of light hitting the CCD, and the shadows that get cast by the dust speck. A small aperture is like pointing a pinpoint light source at your subject, and you end up with distinct edges. A wide open aperture is like a giant softbox (relative to the f16 hole) and the shadows are filled, and edges feathered.

So light hitting the CCD from many angles in the wide open case allow some light to get "around" the dust into a partially blocked sensor, minimizing the resultant spot.

Also, the dust on a CCD is sitting on a filter or protective layer in front of the CCD, and so there is space between it and the sensor array, and the light coming from enough different directions really can get in there. With the sheet film, the dust really is sitting on the film surface.

I'm just guessing, thinking out loud, as they say...

j

gns
02-18-2005, 10:29
Thank you, J.

Sean Reid
02-18-2005, 12:40
I haven't bought them yet but I'm going to get the Visible Dust brushes. The dust is actually sitting on the glass protective filter, not the CCD itself. It becomes more visible at smaller lens openings because of DOF. One way around holding the shutter down is to use a simple cable release with a locking screw (widely available). Just be sure the battery is fully charged before you begin.

Cheers,

Sean

jlw
02-19-2005, 11:00
No, the Epson does not have a cleaning mode. Go figure!

No, go buy a locking cable release!

driggett
02-20-2005, 00:21
Well I cleaned my ccd and got rid of the streaks but the scratches still seem to be there. I took some test shots of a wall and I can not see any problems wide open or closed down. I think I will send it to Epson for a look anyway.
Thanks,
Chris

driggett
02-20-2005, 00:23
I have a question if the filter is made of glass how can I scratch it with a clean dry sensor swap? The sensor swap was taken from the package and used right away.
Thanks,
Chris

P.S. I used the Sensor swap made by photographic solutions and eclipse fluid.

Sean Reid
02-20-2005, 01:10
I can't say without seeing the glass but sometimes what look like scratches are just lines of slight residue from the cleaning fluid after its been wiped with the swab. One often sees lines like that after cleaning a lens or rangefinder window until they're carefully buffed out with a Pec Pad or the like.

It's up to you but I wouldn't bother sending it to Epson unless you notice some kind of deterioration in the picture quality from this. I think its more likely to be residue than a scratch.

Cheers,

Sean

Sean Reid
02-20-2005, 04:16
I wouldn't even know where to begin to respond to such a ridiculous post. What's Jorge's position on Trolls?

Natalia
02-20-2005, 04:43
those ****ty cameras...
...

we don't use that kind of language here. If you'd like to make a point, try doing it in a civil manner, please.

SolaresLarrave
02-20-2005, 07:15
Ah I forgot, I hate digital cameras, They reminds me the Polaroid move some years ago... Will all that last in time, I'm not sure...

Like we didn't notice you do!

Now, chum, if you can't address a problem, don't gloat either. It's extremely vulgar and we're civilized people here.

driggett
02-20-2005, 08:07
Sean,
So with a PECO pad and a little rubbing those treaks should come out? I will try this.
The reason to send it to Epson I believe is to get it fixed if there is a problem while it is still in warranty and for them to fix anything else that has come to their attenion since my camera was manufactured.
Thanks,
Chris

I can't say without seeing the glass but sometimes what look like scratches are just lines of slight residue from the cleaning fluid after its been wiped with the swab. One often sees lines like that after cleaning a lens or rangefinder window until they're carefully buffed out with a Pec Pad or the like.

It's up to you but I wouldn't bother sending it to Epson unless you notice some kind of deterioration in the picture quality from this. I think its more likely to be residue than a scratch.

Cheers,

Sean

Sean Reid
02-20-2005, 08:22
Hi Chris,

If you're not seeing any degradation in your file quality I wouldn't do a thing about it. Again, I haven't seen it but I'll bet they aren't actual scratches. But...if you try too hard to clean it then it could get scratched if some little particle gets between the pec pad and the glass.

So...if it were mine I'd leave it be for now and then clean it with "sensor brush" (or whatever that new thing is called) only when needed. If everything works fine, I wouldn't send the camera anywhere. Remember that the real experts on this camera are in Japan.

Cheers,

Sean

driggett
02-21-2005, 21:49
Sean,
I did a little experiment tonight. I shoot at iso400 at f/2 and f/16 on a 28mm lens. At F/2 no spots. At F/16 spots. I cleaned the camera again and the spots are still there. I guess it is off to Epson.

Sean Reid
02-22-2005, 05:46
Dust spots or the streaks? If it's the spots, buy that special sensor brush. Michael Reichman said it works and that's all I need to know.

Sean

krimple
02-25-2005, 09:10
No, go buy a locking cable release!

LOL! Actually, I have one. My point was that there is no mode like the Canon EOS 20D that you can switch on and essentially leave almost nothing to chance (like the cable lock getting loose and closing the shutter).

I'd rather have my thumb on it so I know it's firmly gripped. But as long as you know your cable release is 100% tightened and reliable, it's probably much better than the human hand.

Now, if I could just splurge on a nice clamp-mounted ballhead that I could place on my desk so I could keep both hands free and not have to worry about holding my cameras, I'd probably do a better job cleaning 'em.

Ken

driggett
03-03-2005, 13:40
Well I received my R-D1 back from Indiana today and they replaced the camera. They indeed said that the ccd was scratched and they gave me a whole new unit sealed in box. I am going to check it out this evening. At least I get a backup battery. The serial number on it is 00193X and the one I had previously is 00175X. Does anybody have serial numbers higher?
Thanks,
Chris

krimple
03-03-2005, 14:35
Glad to hear they did that so quickly... Nice that they gave you a new one rather than making you deal with the repair process.

Ken

Well I received my R-D1 back from Indiana today and they replaced the camera. They indeed said that the ccd was scratched and they gave me a whole new unit sealed in box. I am going to check it out this evening. At least I get a backup battery. The serial number on it is 00193X and the one I had previously is 00175X. Does anybody have serial numbers higher?
Thanks,
Chris

DaShiv
03-03-2005, 14:48
That's been Epson's solution to everything so far for any problems with the R-D1, replacement. I don't think they even have the resources to fix anything for this camera outside of Japan.

driggett
03-03-2005, 15:50
Well I tried out the camera and no spots. So far the camera is looking good.
Thanks,
Chris

Sean Reid
03-03-2005, 19:13
Epson took responsibility for the scratches on the glass cover? They're very generous in defining a warranty replacement aren't they? <G> I still suspect that the cover isn't scratched but its impossible to say without seeing the camera. They certainly took good care of you (all things considered).

Enjoy the new camera.

Sean

driggett
03-03-2005, 19:30
Sean,
I hope that it was scratches otherwise this means that they do not know how to clean a ccd which will be disatrous in the future!
Thanks,
Chris

Sean Reid
03-03-2005, 19:31
They're really taking care of us if they replace a camera under these circumstances. If the glass cover really did get scratched, it got scratched during cleaning (and I still doubt that it was scratched).

A) I suspect that what they saw were residue marks from the pec pad, not scratches.

B) If they told you the CCD was scratched, they're not too clear on the construction of their own camera. The CCD is not accessible from that chamber. One would need to take the camera apart to reach it.

C) If the glass really did get scratched, it wasn't Epson's fault.

You came out great.

Cheers,

Sean

Sean Reid
03-03-2005, 19:32
Odds are quite good that they had no idea what they were looking at or doing. That, in itself, isn't disatrous. Cleaning a sensor cover isn't that complicated especially if one fights the temptation to use fluids. In the five years that I've been using DSLRs, I've never had a sensor cleaned by a manufacturer nor would I want them mucking around with my camera.

Cheers,

Sean

driggett
03-03-2005, 19:43
Sean,
I have been cleaning out my own sensors for 5 years also since I purchased the Nikon D1 in all that time all I had to do was blow out the dust. I never really had to use a swab. Now with the R-D1 I had first tried the bulb blower and that did not get it so that is why I used the swap. Ther was no fluids initially. Could there be a thin film on the ccd cover initially and AI just swabed it off revealing the imperfections in the ccd?
Thanks,
Chris

Sean Reid
03-03-2005, 21:02
Without seeing the camera I couldn't say but I believe its just traces of residue from the cleaning fluid (left by the texture of the pads). You didn't really rub it hard enough to scratch it did you? I'll bet you were pretty gentle and didn't hurt it at all. There would have needed to be grit between the pad and the glass.

Epson USA seems to be replacing cameras at the drop of a hat. I wish they'd just work with Stephen Gandy for proper camera support but I've told them that already. As I said though, it worked out well for you so that's a good thing.

As far as revealing imperfections in the CCD, keep in mind that we don't clean the CCD. It's buried behind an AA filter and often another protective glass cover as well. We clean the outermost piece of glass that covers the CCD, AA filter, etc.. But no....I doubt that this was a case of revealing imperfections. Lens elements and filters with residue can look scratched as well.

For future cleaning, I strongly recommend that sensor brush.

Cheers,

Sean

driggett
03-03-2005, 21:16
Sean,
When I say ccd I mean the whole unit including the cover and various filters.

I bought the sensor brush upon your recomendation and the chamber clean. Let's hope that the first time I have to use it will be in a long time.

I was pretty careful but what I did was swept accross the ccd with a new out of the wrapper sensor swap by Photographic solutions and voila. The scratches appeared. I freaked! I then later used the solution on the sensor swabs and the solution seem to gunk around the scratches.

Again thanks for all your help.

Cheers,
Chris

Sean Reid
03-04-2005, 17:12
You're very welcome. The nice thing with using the sensor brush is that its a dry system so there's not the same problem with residue etc.. Hope it works well for you.

Best,

Sean