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dcsang
10-12-2006, 12:04
Do you record the data when you shoot your film shots? I figure digital users (RD-1, Leica M8 eventually) will have EXIF data that they can refer to but I'm curious if you film shooters ever record the information.

I know I do.. I have my Moleskin ( LOVE THE MOLESKIN !!! ) that I carry with me to record the data ( aperture, shutter, lens, film, subject, date.. ) I find it helpful and handy to look back on the data when I see a shot has come out "good" rather than "poorly".

Cheers
Dave

furcafe
10-12-2006, 12:13
I've used an application called Fotolog on my Palm PDAs for the last 5 years. Even w/the R-D1, I still record aperture, lens, & location data. Similarly, although I have a databack for my G2, I still record aperture, lens, & location data in the Palm when using that camera.

physiognomy
10-12-2006, 12:13
I always plan to and have my moleskin/notebook at the ready, but rarely ever actually do it... Recently I got in a bind where most of my cameras had film in them, but I had no idea what kind! I'm plannning on getting better...

Peter

DMG
10-12-2006, 12:33
what happens when you writing in your book and miss "that" shot?

GeneW
10-12-2006, 13:21
I sometimes slip a little notebook and pen into my back pocket with the intention of writing down this info. When I get home, I'm always surprised to find I was carrying it. Not once have I ever remembered to use it... good idea, though :)

Gene

bmicklea
10-12-2006, 13:31
I've wanted to do more of this but I feel caught: on one hand my best shots seem to come when I get into a groove and can be focused on just shooting (everything else seems to just dissolve); on the other hand as a new and generally unspectacular photographer I'm sure I could benefit from breaking that rhythm and recording the photo data.

I've just started with the moleskin so I'll see how that goes. I gave the Palm thing a try but I guess I'm too much of a luddite to enjoy it ;)

varjag
10-12-2006, 13:42
I tried keeping the log, but it didn't work for me. I found that aperture/shutter speed combo is either dictated by circumstances or selected due to my preference, so the data recorded provided no useful insights.

But if you visit numerous locations or interact with your subjects it still might be a good idea.

furcafe
10-12-2006, 13:47
Doesn't happen. I shoot 1st, take notes later. It's not that big a deal for me because I don't change camera settings that often & when I do, it's usually something minor (e.g., stopped down to f/2 or changed to 1/15th sec.) that I can remember later even if I don't record it immediately. I also only rarely find myself in situations where I'm quickly shooting roll after roll w/no little or no breaks.

Besides, per Brett Weston, nothing worth photographing could ever happen when I'm taking notes, just like when I'm loading film. :p

what happens when you writing in your book and miss "that" shot?

rover
10-12-2006, 14:17
My real answer would be...

I would like to, but I always forget what it was.

rpsawin
10-12-2006, 18:08
A small microcasette recorder works well. The major drawback is that in this day and age the combination of taking a photograph and then speaking into a recorder will get you noticed.

Bob

Kin Lau
10-12-2006, 18:47
I've thought of putting a sticky on the back of my MF folders with the red windows, just so I can write down and remember whether I've actually taken a shot yet, and whether I need to wind on.

kshapero
10-12-2006, 19:30
I sometimes slip a little notebook and pen into my back pocket with the intention of writing down this info. When I get home, I'm always surprised to find I was carrying it. Not once have I ever remembered to use it... good idea, though :)

Gene
I kinda have the same experience.:D

back alley
10-12-2006, 19:36
Do you record the data when you shoot your film shots?

no.
never.
not ever.
nope.
nah.

it's not rocket science, large aperture, fast shutter speed, dof, motion etc.
practice practice practice improve

RayPA
10-12-2006, 21:14
I don't, or rather can never seem to remember or be bothered to do it. It's just not that important to me. I always try to shoot at the same shutter speed for the various situations. I usually shoot 400 film speed, and regardless I write the film type on the canister.

I usually use different camera bodies and lenses for different situations, so I usually know when I see the negatives which camera I used (and therefore which lenses). If possible I try to take one mirror self-portrait shot (somewhere on the roll) to remind me of the body I used and lens set and/or the "featured" lens. Yes I have lots of these types of shots.

The only issues I have are with unfinished rolls sitting in camera bodies—keeping track whether the film is color or black and white. But since I don't bulk load color, I put the box end tab from the color film in the camera case or in the bag. It's not perfect, but for me the important data is the camera, lens, film and developer—all that gets logged on the negative sleeves. My PS file structure is based on camera/film/dev/dilution/time/temp.

Bryce
10-12-2006, 21:41
I use a meter except when sunny 16 applies. So, what for, outside of film tests and such?

Dougg
10-12-2006, 21:51
I don't usually record data as I take the shots except for "touristy" type reasons to identify the subject. More often I record what I've shot after I return from shooting, but not down to the detail of shutter speeds and lens openings unless they were significant for some reason. I do keep track of which camera and lens(es) were used, filters, etc.

Actually, I begin a computer database record for the roll when I load the camera, and update it as I shoot. After the processing comes in I fill in any subjects I forgot to enter earlier.

Gid
10-12-2006, 23:42
I voted for "why bother". The reality is that the RD-1 exif gives me some of the data and I can usually remember the rest. More often than not the 35 'cron has been glued to the RD-1, but I recently got a tri-elmar, so that makes it a little harder, though I can usually tell from the shot what focal length I used. Film is a bit harder, but again I usually stick with one lens per roll and I have a limited choice of lenses.

VictorM.
10-13-2006, 04:27
Sometimes, mostly when I'm using a camera I've adjusted/repaired and am 'testing'.

markinlondon
10-13-2006, 04:37
I usually shoot each roll with one of my 50's or with a 35/90 combo. I'll usually record which lens I used when I process the roll and assign it a roll no. Other than that, I've never really seen the point of frame by frame data recording. If I'm "testing" a new lens I might make notes. Otherwise, Nah!

nightfly
10-13-2006, 04:51
Never.

Seems like useless info to me. Either I made the shot or I didn't but it's not going to be exactly the same again so who cares.

I do wish I kept track of what developer and time I used to develop rolls of film.

pesphoto
10-13-2006, 07:45
No, I dont dother now. Way back when I was first learning photography my teacher had me write everything down as I shot as a way to learn what different combos of fstops, shutter speeds can do. Now it's just shoot and move on to the next spot.

ed1k
10-13-2006, 08:59
I wish I did :) Sometimes I make notes using cigarette box or some random paper I easily misplace later - but only if I have with me a few lenses with close focal length when I swap them. I do write on paper wrap for negatives: film type, camera body used, date of processing, developer, temperature/time, lenses used and sometimes date of shooting and frame numbers near the lens it was taken with (if it's not obvious due to focal lenght). But I do it at home when processing the film.
Did not find an option for me in poll, so didn't vote.
Cheers,
Eduard.

rncamero
10-13-2006, 09:37
On a trip to the Philippines last year I forced myself to try and keep detailed notes on aperture/shutter speeds, shooting conditions, body, lens, and film speed on each roll. I had 70+ rolls of film with me, and couldn't develop until after the trip. All my gear were non-CLA'd early 1960s or older used equipment, and I wasn't sure if they'd work consistently under tropical conditions.

Luckily the gear held up, and having the shot info made developing a much easier job. Starting with the earliest roll I was able to evaluate my results and make appropriate changes in developing times and methods.

I no longer really need to note down aperture & shutter info, but I still log shooting conditions, body & film speed. Comes in handy because I always manage to maintain a developing backlog of 10 rolls at any given time. My memory sucks, so if I didn't have this info I wouldn't know how to develop my rolls.

-Raymond

jan normandale
10-13-2006, 09:57
yes I do but don't get that much out of it... in my opinion.

I usually keep a roll of masking tape in my bag, I will write the film/exposure/frames and details on the masking tape which I put on the bottom of the camera plate. When I'm done I remove the cassette and peel the tape from the camera and put it on the cannister.

This works because I use a limited number of lenses, usually 28, 35, or 40/50 and the time aperture combo is usually only two variables ie f4.0 or f 5.6 at 1/4 or 1/60th : or daylight f11.0 or f16 at 125th or 250th.

Graham Line
10-13-2006, 10:24
It made a lot more sense to record settings when shooting sheet film, when I could do individual development or something, or was using sawings and tilts. Most of the time now, it's one lens, one body, at pretty much the same speeds and apertures. The recorder is handy for locations on train-shooting chases or some specific projects, but more for location and lighting data.

leica M2 fan
10-13-2006, 10:43
I actually use a voice activated small recorder and dictate aperture and speed and any little nuances about the scene. I also have at the ready a little pad that I write on if needed. Overkill, maybe, but I can learn an awful lot this way.:D

Ash
10-13-2006, 10:57
Moleskine's are awesome.

I refused to write down a single piece of photo data when I was doing AS Photography, and the teacher hated it. Fact is, good photo's are often candid. you dont have time between 3 or 4 shots to write it all down.

I usually stick with a similar shutter speed/aperture selection most of the time, so I can guestimate what they were when I upload on here.

akptc
10-13-2006, 11:04
I actually use a voice activated small recorder and dictate aperture and speed and any little nuances about the scene. ....D This also works for me. I have a small "pen" digital recorder that hangs on my shirt collar, and when I feel the need to record info, I just talk - easy, and painless.

uhligfd
10-13-2006, 11:16
If/when I see the pics, I usually note under- or overexposure: This teaches me to rethink my exposures in certain situations. Specific exposure data would not help at all with this, I think.

I also note shake unsharpness: I make mental notes not to go under ... sec with that lens.

Then I may notice weird focus or short DOF: again just a mental note to be more conscious works for me.

What good do the recorded numbers do? Especially if one does not record the exact focus distance also? And the filter used, and the exposure compensation such as + 1 or -1/2 from the lightmeter reading, etc etc ?

I think the data is all in the picture anyway, for the experienced eye, that is.

rbiemer
10-23-2006, 22:57
I write on the film canister which camera I used. Beyond that, not a lot of other notes. With the exception of first roll with a "new" lens or film. I've tried to minimize variables by using(predominantly) one camera and one lens for each roll.
I don't "chase the meter" too much so any changes I might make for fstop or shutter speed are generally minor.
The other exception to this is if I'm shooting pinhole. Then I usually have time after I've opened the shutter to note what "speed" I'm using--though at a minute (or longer, some times much longer) exposure, "speed" seems like an oxymoronic way to phrase it--filter or not, any special effects I might be trying,length of the "lens" or any thing I think I'll want to be sure to recall later.
Rob

mjflory
10-24-2006, 01:03
Lately I've thought about trying my tiny voice recorder again, but I'm afraid I've fallen into the habit of scribbling on the back of the last receipt I stuffed in my shirt pocket. (The recorder was handy but transcribing was a nuisance.) I try to record speed & aperture for every shot and compare notes with prints and negs later, but for me much of the enjoyment of RF photography is in testing and fiddling with equipment anyway.
By the way (and I know it's a little off-topic), it took me several posts and a Google search to figure out what a "moleskin" is; I had no idea what a legendary status the Moleskine-brand notebook has! There's really no brand of notebook that prominent in the US. Ironically, I read and enjoyed Bruce Chatwin's writing years ago, but I missed all of his praise of the Moleskine notebooks.

jorisbens
10-24-2006, 11:27
I don't do that, and I don't see a reason why you should do it, unless you are learning how to correctly expose or are testing a lens at different apertures. But if you shoot like me (and I'm not a genial photographer) all my exposures give at least printable negatives, and after development, no changes to composition and point of view can be made.

rpsawin
12-13-2006, 07:27
I'm inconsistant with recording info. When I'm shooting with a rf I generally carry a micro-recorder. I find it a bit less cumbersome than a notepad and pen.

Bob

kmack
12-13-2006, 08:39
Yes I do, but:

35mm I will only record at what ISO I shot the roll. If I have more than one camera going I will place a piece of masking tape on the bottom of the camera with the film type and the ISO I am shooting. When the roll comes out of the camera the tape goes on the roll.

Sheet film I record everything as it is shot.

I keep records of every roll and sheet I develop, (time, temp, developer, EI, dilution, agitation, ambient temp).

pvdhaar
12-13-2006, 22:28
I used to painstakingly log the info when I started doing photography.. But after a while, I felt I didn't learn anything from it. The circumstances are never really twice the same, so every photo is a venture on it's own. That's when I gave up..

sjw617
12-15-2006, 03:37
I record f stop, shutter speed, ISO, film, filters, lens, camera, location and date. But I have the time since I do landscapes and night shots.

hth
01-01-2007, 11:12
I used to, but I felt it took too much time and I did not learn much about it, so I quit. Nowadays I do not always know which lens I used...

/Håkan

c.poulton
01-01-2007, 11:20
what happens when you writing in your book and miss "that" shot?

Yes, that is what I would worry about - too much time spent writing details in a notebook when "the shot of a lifetime" is in-front of you!

Although saying that, I often look back on my negs when I eventually find time to scan them in and wonder what exposure I used. (Sometimes it's even hard to remember what camera I used!) :)

Pepe
01-01-2007, 12:58
almost every pic I take is wide open at the slowest I dare, so I don't bother.

When I do take a photo during the day, I see no reason to log ... I always trust my aperture priority AE with a bit of +/- compensation when I deem it necessary. (metered manual would be great, alas my poor baby doesnt have it)

dostacos
01-01-2007, 13:27
I need to start writing down what LENS I am using, too many posts of "X lens pics only please" I can guess, but it would be nice......

chris000
08-30-2008, 13:36
I keep a photo diary, where I have been and what I have seen and what I took photos of - but I never record technical details. I've never seen any reason why I might ever go back and look at the details.

sepiareverb
08-30-2008, 17:22
I do make notes, but only when doing an initial test of a new lens. From then on each roll gets given a number as it comes out of the camera, with ISO, body, lens, filter (if any), development intended and where it was shot.

maddoc
08-30-2008, 18:59
I make notes of year, month, film-roll, body and lens(es) used, on the tip of the film leader. Later when scanning, these notes are going to be part of the filename. On every film sleeve, I also write the developer, dev time and temperature. I found this the easiest way to keep track of things and it is quite helpful when searching for possible technical defects (RF out of alignment, shutter problems, light meter etc.)

jmkelly
08-30-2008, 19:30
Gabor - thanks for the tip on making notations on the film leader - useful idea. As it is, just now I keep data on body, lens, film and dates in my Moleskine.

Roger Hicks
08-31-2008, 00:43
A question for those who do log their information:

How often do you consult that information afterwards?

And what do you learn from it?

I've always wondered...

Darkroom notebooks are another matter: dev, time, temperature, agitation, paper grade, exposure...

Cheers,

R.

mnmleung
08-31-2008, 00:54
When I am shooting with meterless FSU RFs as well as our Nikon D50 with non-CPU lenses I try to keep notes in a text file of when, where, aperture, speed. I mostly shoot colour negatives, so it is quite forgiving.

maddoc
08-31-2008, 01:14
A question for those who do log their information:

How often do you consult that information afterwards?

And what do you learn from it?

I've always wondered...

Darkroom notebooks are another matter: dev, time, temperature, agitation, paper grade, exposure...

Cheers,

R.

Dear Roger,

I only consult that information either when I am asked by somebody else about it (usually the question: which lens / film did you use ?) or when I think that something is wrong with my camera. The shutter problem with my MP was easy to detect this way, since it was only visible on the negs at speeds of 1/1000s and 1/500s (shutter speeds I only had to use at daytime and with 400 ISO film in summer). After I had sent my camera to Leica they asked me to provide a photo with technical details to figure out out what exactly was wrong and since I had the technical data together with a photo it was easy to provide them the data.

Cheers,

Gabor

Roger Hicks
08-31-2008, 01:39
Dear Roger,

I only consult that information either when I am asked by somebody else about it (usually the question: which lens / film did you use ?) or when I think that something is wrong with my camera. The shutter problem with my MP was easy to detect this way, since it was only visible on the negs at speeds of 1/1000s and 1/500s (shutter speeds I only had to use at daytime and with 400 ISO film in summer). After I had sent my camera to Leica they asked me to provide a photo with technical details to figure out out what exactly was wrong and since I had the technical data together with a photo it was easy to provide them the data.

Cheers,

Gabor

Dear Gabor,

For the latter, it seems like quite a lot of work to go to for the occasional fault, and for the former, well, I just tell 'em I don't know, though I can usually say "It was probably..."

This is not to denigrate your approach for a minute, because it works for you, but equally, I don't think you've persuaded me to change my ways.

Thanks very much for a useful insight, though. I hope others will post their reasons too.

Cheers,

Roger

__hh
08-31-2008, 02:03
I only keep note of the camera, lens, and film used. I "try" to stick to one lens per roll. I also keep track of the date (either date exposed if all done in one day, or date developed if I can't remember).

Ray Nalley
08-31-2008, 04:56
That's my approach as well. I'll note camera, lens, film and date. That's it. I'm not going to consistently keep more detailed records, so keep it simple.

MartinP
09-15-2008, 10:03
I will make careful notes if testing something new, else just the film-speed and date/roll-number on the leader. Later on I'd write the camera, film, rating and development-details on the neg sleeve.

An exception would be for something special about the subject, so that I can find that thing more easily after a trip etc.

Chris101
09-15-2008, 23:38
I have tried. Really. But when I do, invariably I get something wrong,then I cannot decipher what I thought I was recording. It has always left me with more questions than answers (did I miss one; record one twice; hallucinate that aperture?) so I have just given up on trying to record anything useful external to the film itself. Digital records an EXIF which keeps all that information. So does my F5, if I can figure out how to get at it - but then, I'd associate it with the wrong roll, I'm sure!

I find the best solution to the problem, when I relly need to record data, is to put it right in the image:

http://homepage.mac.com/cheilman1/jop/images/18.jpg

----
ps, why does this show up as a link, instead of an embedded image?

projectbluebird
09-16-2008, 00:42
I've tried, several times. Sometimes I skip frames, or list them twice. Or I forget to bring the notebook... It happens! So the only time I bother is when I'm testing a new film, and then only ISO.

For testing lenses, I don't bother. I use one of my favorite films, and work from wide open to stopped down. I also tend to do my testing outside and handheld, the way I shoot normaly, I don't even own a tripod.

The best way I found to learn, and quickly, is: one lens, one camera, and lots of one film. I did this when I got my first M lens for my M3. I shot several rolls a week for 4 months... At the end of that I didn't even need a meter anymore.

Nowadays I don't have as much time, or film, and I need a meter for the several different films I use. It was fun while it lasted, but I still have a good understanding of what DoF I can expect for a given aperture.

Bob Michaels
09-18-2008, 17:18
I always carry a little notebook and pen. 98% of the time I record the subjects name / location / date and very frequently some information about them. This is all important to me and becomes info for photo captions if I use the photo in an exhibit.

I have never written down any information about aperture, shutter speed, lens used or any of that. Basically I have never cared.

italy74
09-19-2008, 12:42
not me... I don't record photo data... my F6 does that ! :rolleyes:
However I use them when I stick worthy pictures on my private album, so I ask my trustworthy secretary (F6 memory) about that shot.