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View Full Version : If you had $2000 to waste ............


Bertram2
03-17-2006, 09:51
...........would you travel to your favourite Mediterranean island for a week, to welcome the spring in April at 25%C , drive around with a rented car and shoot all photos you missed during your last visit in 2002,
or would you buy that damn Mamiya M645 Pro TL set with two lenses which a friend now offers for a special price ?
I cannot do both NOW, and I am not sure if I ever will get this price again.

bertram

kmack
03-17-2006, 09:58
Heck, I'd trade a 645 for a chance to spend a week on Mallorca again :D

You can always find more gear, you can never find more time.

KoNickon
03-17-2006, 09:59
Bertram, I'll trust your judgment that this price is a bargain for that camera and lenses. It seems a little high to me, or at any rate not a tremendous deal. (Great camera, of course.) But since you obviously want us to validate the way you're leaning, what the heck -- the island will be there! The Mamiya, maybe not.

Bertram2
03-17-2006, 10:03
Heck, I'd trade a 645 for a chance to spend a week on Mallorca again :D

You can always find more gear, you can never find more time.

Actually it's Crete, you know , and Crete is magic, Mallorca is only a very nice place, and that's it ;-))

Bertram

kmack
03-17-2006, 10:06
Actually it's Crete, you know , and Crete is magic, Mallorca is only a very nice place, and that's it ;-))

Bertram
Never had a chance to go to Crete, OK... once I get there I will be able to compare and contrast. :D

ch1
03-17-2006, 10:12
Bertram,

I think you answered your own question. You have plenty of gear. 645's will be around for years - enjoy the warmth and play with your current toys! ;)

bob cole
03-17-2006, 10:12
...........would you travel to your favourite Mediterranean island for a week, to welcome the spring in April at 25%C , drive around with a rented car and shoot all photos you missed during your last visit in 2002,
or would you buy that damn Mamiya M645 Pro TL set with two lenses which a friend now offers for a special price ?
I cannot do both NOW, and I am not sure if I ever will get this price again.

bertram
__________________________________________________ _______________

Bertram, I take issue with your question: If you had $2000 to waste...You're not wasting it if you buy the Mamiya or take a vacation because you want both. Since it's a friend who has the camera, why don't you offer him, say, $1,200 now and use the $800 balance for a short vacation...Or if he's firm at $2,000, try to work out a deal where you'll pay him half now and half when you can, saving enough for the trip...good fortune...bob

Bertram2
03-17-2006, 10:16
Bertram, I'll trust your judgment that this price is a bargain for that camera and lenses. It seems a little high to me, or at any rate not a tremendous deal. (Great camera, of course.) But since you obviously want us to validate the way you're leaning, what the heck -- the island will be there! The Mamiya, maybe not.


The price is o.k., it's the 645 SLR, not the RF ! About $1200 less than it was some month ago. It's not only a body with two lenses, some accessories are included. He wants to get rid of it, he thinks 120 film will die soon , of course I did not say anything to change his mind :D

bertram

Chaser
03-17-2006, 10:19
You can put together a minimal M645 Pro TL kit at KEH.com for under $500. Not as nice as the full deal but that would leave $1500 for the trip.

Brian Sweeney
03-17-2006, 10:29
Nikon S3-2000. Been there, Done that.

dnk512
03-17-2006, 10:41
My wife just bought me $2K photo-trip. I wish I had the $ for gear, but I think she is right. Such trip, though I would never justify to buy for myself, will be a lifetime of joy. GAS is like death and taxes.

iñaki
03-17-2006, 10:48
I would go to Crete without any dude. If you stay at home you don´t need more cameras. just my 2 pesetas (spanish currency before the €)

FrankS
03-17-2006, 10:56
$2000 does not sound like such special price, especially if 120 film will die soon. What kind of a friend would sell you such a camera? Take the trip!

dnk512
03-17-2006, 10:57
Now that I will be going on a trip, perhaps you should buy the gear and let me use it for a week :p

Gid
03-17-2006, 11:12
No contest. Go on the trip. The camera will be half that price next year and my guess is that you don't need the camera (like we all don't) :)

Gid

back alley
03-17-2006, 11:40
i can't decide...

Honus
03-17-2006, 11:49
..... Crete

jpbob100
03-17-2006, 12:50
Yeah, I vote for Crete. :)

a.black
03-17-2006, 12:54
Another vote for the island.

The people that voted for the Mamiya are just waiting for you to sell some other equipment here to finance your next trip. :-)

J. Borger
03-17-2006, 12:56
Get the Camera Bertram!
Hollidays are fantastic but ......... not for photography!
If i go for a trip i always think of the picture opportunties .... and come home dissapointed.
I take my best pictures in my "backyard" ... in familiair surroundings.
In common places where others would say "there is nothing to photograph".

On the other hand Crete is great ... to relax and enjoy .. take a couple of snapshots ...... but i am convinced you will not come with the great pictures you want to take. You have to take these around where you live. The camera can help you to accomplish this the other 50 weeks of the year.

Just my 2 cents!

Memnon
03-17-2006, 13:05
South side of Crete most definately.

sf
03-17-2006, 13:40
go to europe

duh

35mmdelux
03-17-2006, 14:35
i would give your friend $500 (US) and not a penny more. MF film is getting harder to get developed, never mind the much bigger cost factor. With $2K I'd buy a Leica M6 or M4-P and get a 35mm Summicron. Forget the MF, unless its one special picture.

Andrew Touchon
03-17-2006, 14:37
Crete...............

Gabriel M.A.
03-17-2006, 15:19
I have a better idea: buy the Mamiya 645 and celebrate by travelling south and shooting with it! :D

Krasnaya_Zvezda
03-17-2006, 15:28
Experiences and memories are worth far more than any stinking camera (no, I didn't really say that, did I?) 30 years from now, what would you be relating to someone over drinks, the beautiful week you once spent in Crete, or tales of your 645?
You have a camera already, right? Take the freakin' trip! Who knows what adventure awaits?

Gabriel M.A.
03-17-2006, 15:35
go to europe

duhYeah, Bertram. You should go to Europe. It'll be very very cheap for you. How much flying in from Germany? ;)

harmsr
03-17-2006, 15:36
The trip without any reservations. Put GAS on hold and enjoy what you already have. Like others have said, "What will you be smiling over when remembering things in a few years?".

Ray

Bertram2
03-17-2006, 16:09
Well , if that is not a surprising result then I don't know what a surprise is !!
I had expected much more votes for the camera ! In principle I tend to the trip too, I always would prefer a new experience, just THIS offer was making me thoughtful, the more because, after a lot of going back and forth with all kinda designs and formats the 6X4,5 SLR seems to be the best MF compromise for my purpose.

A used system can't be the solution in this case, I never bought any used camera ( the offer is a new system from somebody I know and trust, , maybe two rolls, not more) and I do not intend to do it in future, for several reasons. But Gid's idea that I probably can find an even better offer later is in the year is somehow convincing.

Thanks so far to all for the votings !

Bertram

yossarian
03-17-2006, 16:44
Sorry to rain on the parade, but I'd pay off my f***king medical bills...

Fred

sbug
03-17-2006, 17:15
I'd go on a trip and I wouldn't second guess that decision for a second.

Krasnaya_Zvezda
03-17-2006, 20:56
Sorry to rain on the parade, but I'd pay off my f***king medical bills...

Fred

I think the qualifier here was "to waste".
Sorry to hear that you are underneath a burden.

dexdog
03-17-2006, 21:08
I would go to Sicily if I had $2K to spend.

Doug
03-17-2006, 21:54
I have been to Crete, and would love to go back. Consider, Bertram, that there are many Mamiya 645 kits and more nice ones will be for sale... and prices can only go down. Memories become more valuable, and you can aid memory with the great gear you already have. I would say go to Crete and enjoy!

bobofish
03-17-2006, 22:01
Use the $2k to hire a high priced hooker, take pictures, sell them on the internet, and use the proceeds to buy a house in Crete filled with wine and anisette.

Did I just say that?

Those cameras will be cheap cheap cheap soon enough. I see them all the time for not much money, and there really isn't any compelling reason to buy his for $2k, even though it is barely used and comes with some extras.

On the other hand, if he went down to $1200, then you could take a hell of a drive with your camera and a few days off. Maybe do the Prague Krakow Budejovice route, and buy yourself and your camera a couple of beers.

Gid
03-17-2006, 23:54
Bertram,

If you want new 645 at a good price, then consider the Bronica RF645. Still some available at less than £500 with a 65mm. Fantastic camera for the money, but very limited on the lens front - 65 and 45 which are still easy to find and a very rare 100. However, value for money you'd be hard pushed to beat. See Shutterflower's review for more info.

Regards

Gid

RML
03-18-2006, 00:45
The trip, of course! Cameras will be around forever. The chance to go on holiday not.

Bertram2
03-18-2006, 04:02
I have been to Crete, and would love to go back. Consider, Bertram, that there are many Mamiya 645 kits and more nice ones will be for sale... and prices can only go down. Memories become more valuable, and you can aid memory with the great gear you already have. I would say go to Crete and enjoy!

Watching these pic Id say you are right, a small choice of samples only:

Crete in April 2001 (http://www.pgallery.net/bertram/folder-7142.html)

Regards,
Bertram

berci
03-18-2006, 04:08
If I had 2000 to waste, I would waste it immediately.

I wouldn't go to the south I would go north.

Bertram2
03-18-2006, 04:14
Use the $2k to hire a high priced hooker, take pictures, sell them on the internet, and use the proceeds to buy a house in Crete filled with wine and anisette.
Did I just say that?
.

Well, this idea isn't too bad , sounds like big fun, but I doubt that I could make my wife believe that the hooker is a model only . :D And to buy a house in Crete filled with wine and Raki you would need some really sensational photos nowadays, something like sex with a crocodile or so. Do i really want this ? Not sure ! ;)

bertram

anglophone1
03-18-2006, 04:22
Take the trip.............................buy a Holga!
Clive

unohuu
03-18-2006, 05:32
Never had a chance to go to Crete, OK... once I get there I will be able to compare and contrast. :D


Never used the this particular Mamiya 645, but I have been to Crete. It sits atop my lists of places I have been but yearn to return. Take the road trip. We (most of us) have all the gear we need. Lifetime experiences are rare in comparison to opportunities to gain new vision; new contacts; new perspectives.

Bertram, you want a 645 and two lenses to take on the trip? I will lend them to you for the small price of one beautiful print. M645 and M645J w/80mm f/2.8 and 150mm f/4. Prism finder and WLF. We can have an easy deal.

Luke

existrandom
03-18-2006, 21:30
for me even if i get rid of all my photo gears, i cannot not buy the chance/time for a trip

kvanderlaag
03-19-2006, 21:51
Never used the this particular Mamiya 645, but I have been to Crete. It sits atop my lists of places I have been but yearn to return. Take the road trip. We (most of us) have all the gear we need. Lifetime experiences are rare in comparison to opportunities to gain new vision; new contacts; new perspectives.

Bertram, you want a 645 and two lenses to take on the trip? I will lend them to you for the small price of one beautiful print. M645 and M645J w/80mm f/2.8 and 150mm f/4. Prism finder and WLF. We can have an easy deal.

Luke

I don't think you can beat an offer like that!

The chance to own the camera yourself will come again, probably at a lower price in the future. The chance to go to Crete? Maybe not, and here you're being offered a chance to have the trip in its entireity, and the camera for the duration!

pvdhaar
03-19-2006, 22:06
...........would you travel to your favourite Mediterranean island for a week, to welcome the spring in April at 25%C , drive around with a rented car and shoot all photos you missed during your last visit in 2002,
or would you buy that damn Mamiya M645 Pro TL set with two lenses which a friend now offers for a special price ?
I cannot do both NOW, and I am not sure if I ever will get this price again.

bertram
About a month ago, I saw a decent looking 645 Pro-TL second hand in a shop for 350 Euro including the 80mm lens. Of course it didn't sit there really long, but it goes to show that $2000 isn't really a bargain for a two lens setup.

Bertram2
03-20-2006, 02:12
Bertram, you want a 645 and two lenses to take on the trip? I will lend them to you for the small price of one beautiful print. M645 and M645J w/80mm f/2.8 and 150mm f/4. Prism finder and WLF. We can have an easy deal.

Luke

Luke,
this is really a generous offer! Thanks a lot ! I cannot accept it anyway, imagine the risk of damnage und all the idiotic hassle with the nerds at the customs we would have with sending a M 645 to Germany and back to Canada again !

I got a phone call this morning, concerning a new business project and now there is a huge fat question mark behind all travel ideas, at least for the next 3 months.
April and May are the only months good to go toCrete with a camera ( spring, all green, blossom) and so I am afraid that's IT with Crete in 2006. :bang:

If you will ever see new Crete photos in my gallery next year, ask me for a print in any case, I'll send you one or a good jpeg file to print, no prob. :)

Regards
Bertram

Andy K
03-20-2006, 02:23
Not sure I'd go south, I would be more likely to go north on a trip I've been promising myself for a while now, Scandinavia and across the ocean to Iceland.

Bertram2
03-20-2006, 02:59
Take the trip.............................buy a Holga!
Clive

You surprise me , Clive ! Somebody living in Antibes wants to travel elsewhere ??
Why ?? Your ARE in the middle of the paradise yet, aren't you ? :D
La Cote is another travel hot spot in my life, I love it as much as I love Crete, even a bit more I think ! :D Var and Bouches du Rhone are magic too. For me at least.
Have been there VERY often within the last 30 years.

Regards,
bertram

dostacos
03-26-2006, 10:32
camera now and trip later OR trip now and camera later.

PLAN: My father worked hard, enjoyed the game of oh ****...er golf. He built his company up from nothing to a 15 Million dollar business. His goal was to build it up, sell it and retire, then to play all the great golf courses of the world.

REALITY: 4 Years before retirement he had a total hip replacement...ok, he could still golf.....
year after retirement and 1 BEFORE medicare total knee, no mas golfing for him! few years later and a second total knee stopped all traveling.

I learned my lesson, go for the trips when you can, because when you have the TIME later in life you may not have the health!

Dan [staring down the barrel of a total hip just as soon as the daily pain overcomes the thought of surgery and rehab time]

sf
03-26-2006, 10:48
If I had $2000 to waste, I wouldn't waste it. I'd buy a camera or a short vacation back to France in the Spring time.

unohuu
03-26-2006, 14:31
Luke,
this is really a generous offer! Thanks a lot ! I cannot accept it anyway, imagine the risk of damnage und all the idiotic hassle with the nerds at the customs we would have with sending a M 645 to Germany and back to Canada again !

I got a phone call this morning, concerning a new business project and now there is a huge fat question mark behind all travel ideas, at least for the next 3 months.
April and May are the only months good to go toCrete with a camera ( spring, all green, blossom) and so I am afraid that's IT with Crete in 2006. :bang:

If you will ever see new Crete photos in my gallery next year, ask me for a print in any case, I'll send you one or a good jpeg file to print, no prob. :)

Regards
Bertram


i have seen your work, Bertram. it is i who would benefit most from any deal. i understand the trouble of sending the camera back and forth (BTW, i am only a border relly of the Canadians), but the offer stands when and if you decide to do this next year as well.

Luke

Bertram2
03-26-2006, 15:48
, go for the trips when you can, because when you have the TIME later in life you may not have the health!

Dan [staring down the barrel of a total hip just as soon as the daily pain overcomes the thought of surgery and rehab time]

You are damn right, as an old fartbag of 55 I should include this in my calculation, the more because the first health probs appeal now.
Hope that hip surgery will run well when you decide to let them make it !

Regards,
Bertram

Bertram2
03-26-2006, 16:04
i have seen your work, Bertram. it is i who would benefit most from any deal. i understand the trouble of sending the camera back and forth (BTW, i am only a border relly of the Canadians), but the offer stands when and if you decide to do this next year as well.

Luke

Thanks for the compliments and for the offer again . The prob is I could have to pay toll if the customs do not believe what you will write on the customs sticker: "Moldy used old camera stuff, worth $80" , or similar. If they open the packing and see the camera they will know that we try to take the piss out of them ;)
Worst is you would have to pay toll fee too for your own camera when it comes back.
I have no clue if there is a way to avoid such hassle with a fictive rep order and I shiver while thinking about the hassle I could have with Germany customs officials :rolleyes:
I'll keep your offer in my mind tho, thanks again, and I will try to get infos how one could handle the toll prob.
Best regards,

Bertram :)

Ergo
03-26-2006, 16:47
I would drive to SF with M3 and 40mm,tale a million photos,eat at sam wo's then return home,5 hours total.

amateriat
03-26-2006, 18:18
Don't know about "traveling south"...but I do know I would pack a small duffel with clothes, grab my bag of Hexars and glass and film, hop the A train and Airtrain to JFK, hop the next flight to Orly, slip onto the RER and Metro to Hotel Esmeralda (alone, this time), get the room with balcony overlooking the Seine and Notre Dame (and right around the corner from a certain famous bookshop), and spend a glorious week walking, meditating, photographing, and being seduced by this city all over again...

Skip all this to get yet another camera? Not on your life.

- Barrett

tedwhite
03-26-2006, 18:24
For five or six hundred bucks you can buy a very nice Rolleiflex. 120 film and a very good lens and still take the trip. Plus life gets simple, none of this Oh my, what lens shall I use?