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Rich Silfver
02-27-2006, 09:25
The more I think about it I am torn about one thing (and I can't believe I am setting up a poll to resolve...a poll...) :)

As anyone who has followed the 'RF Camera Beauty contest' has seen the Leica M- and Barnack cameras are scoring very high.

A number of people are voting for for instance the M3 or the MP making them the highest rated cameras in one group - and the same goes for the M2, M6 and M7 entries.

What I in retrospect could had done would be to have a "Leica M-Series" option and a "Barnack-series" option.

That would had pooled all the Leica votes into fewer buckets and leaving the room for more non-Leica 2nd and third runner ups.

DILEMMA:
As we move into the FINAL round this week I can either;

a) Move all the individual M's and III's to the final (which means that most likely 4 out of the 6 spots in the final will be Leica cameras), OR

b) Pool the M-series votes and III-series votes and enter these two 'series' as two options in the final - leaving room for the four closest non-Leica cameras to go to the finals.

There are issues/challenges with either option.
Some people feel strongly that a vote for an M3 is very different to a vote for an M7 - and some people feel that the difference between some of them are so small that pooling them is better.

So..I'm gonna cop out and let YOU decide.

Brian Sweeney
02-27-2006, 09:32
Rich,
I think the all-out competition is fine. Let people vote for the camera of their choice as per the original rules.

Even if the Nikon SP gets knocked out. So, my daughter knew camera aesthetics better than I do since she was age four. Majority Rules. (And I should be able to snap up the losers on Ebay for reduced prices)

wtl
02-27-2006, 09:39
I don't see any problem with all out. This is rangefinder forum, not Leica M, right? So if most people voted for M, what's the problem? I might just be completely confused.

Rich Silfver
02-27-2006, 09:44
Yeah you two may be right - maybe I am worrying over nothing and should just proceed with as-is.

back alley
02-27-2006, 10:05
stay the course, no worries...

Paulbe
02-27-2006, 10:21
Welll--I just voted and it said 50-50---
why don't you just leave it like it is---you can always run a Leica only poll since everyone's already said they love polls!! :-)
Paul

AGN
02-27-2006, 10:27
Rich,
You have done a great job. You know that you can't please everybody. All is well as it is.
Thanks for the entertainment.
Art

rover
02-27-2006, 11:16
Too late to change. This is just for fun so let's not sweat it.

JohnL
02-27-2006, 11:28
If you go for option (a) -- Leica M, Leica Barnack, 2 other cameras -- AND IF one of the Leica groups wins, you could have a final final shootout between the cameras of that group. Just a thought.

Little Prince
02-27-2006, 11:57
I don't feel like concurring on this one. Honestly, I would have only had one M camera and one Barnack representing their groups in the original poll. Well maybe that's a little extreme considering how many different models are there. So, one of the older Ms (M2/M3) and one of the later Ms (M4/M4-P/M6/M7/MP) and an M5 would be the only 3 M cameras in the parent poll. SImilarly for the Barnacks. Other brands (read series of cameras with similar design themes) do not have as much representation as the Leicas do, so this would have evened out the field.

Anyway, since the parent poll is over, we can still go ahead and club the Ms and Barnacks together for 1 candidate each, and move on the 4th places up wherever applicable.

Brian Sweeney
02-27-2006, 12:48
Well, this is no where near as bad as the last free and open poll that we had for the most beautiful rangefinder camera of all time.

Seems the Canon P took all top four slots.

Brian Sweeney
02-27-2006, 12:56
Now THIS thread is how you run a fair and impartial poll:

http://rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1708

ch1
02-27-2006, 14:24
While in retrospect it might have been better to have "grouped" the cameras differently - what's done is done.

Let the Leicas win this beauty contest - Leica owners need constant reassurance of their gear. :eek:

We Nikonians do not require such hand-holding - we know we have great gear! :p

allthumbs
02-27-2006, 14:38
You can switch it up for next week's poll (just kidding!).

It is too late to change the rules, and in a way the result is just--it's no secret that a great many of the competing cameras are direct copies or attempts to copy, or took their inspiration and fundamentals from, a Barnack or M Leica, or the Contax, or both.

Even in a Leica landslide, I think many of us are at least a little curious how the landslide will play out. It's still interesting. Especially now that I know that my horse the P swept a previous poll. ;)

jan normandale
02-27-2006, 14:38
Polls always have to be refined to obtain the responses that will answer the poll question. One of the problems for the poll on “most beautiful” was there were more multiples of Leica than say Yashica so what has happened is the sheer number of Leica entries have overwhelmed other entries. I also feel that some people are voting for their cameras and not the looks of the listed cameras. Should we just rename this the LRFF not RFF? Then it would make sense to an outsider.

Rich, perhaps it might have been better to ask every one to send in their top ten and no more than three from on maker. Personally I found that people’s comments in the threads were often about criteria that were off the poll. The poll was about the “asthetic appearance” of the cameras listed. Several comments show selections not based on this criteria.

Some beautiful cameras have been given marginal recognition, two to my mind are the the Kodak Bantam Special and the Hassy XPan clean and elegant cameras that truly are ‘beautiful’.

Aesthetically Leica cameras are functional not beautiful. In black they look like stealth bombers, unlike a Concorde which has flowing lines and grace unafraid to shine. No hiding in the black recesses of the wings for them. I know I’ll hear the engineers come out and say functionality is “beautiful” we also know they are just engineers with no heart or soul. Art is lost on them and they shouldn’t be allowed to vote. Record the names of the engineers and block them from the next poll.. (joke!)

BTW none of my selections are in the finals. For what it’s worth I do have a Leica but even out of a box it was functional but wasn’t beautiful. I don’t confuse the two. The Bantam is not what I’d take to shoot, but it is what I considered to fit your criteria of “beautiful”. It would have helped if there had been more ‘beautiful’ cameras to choose from.

That could be the next topic, a “post the most beautiful camera” thread.

Gabriel M.A.
02-27-2006, 15:14
Hmm, the Leicas are too pretty to give others a chance...is this what I'm reading?

I guess either you grade based on merit, or grade on a curve. Which is fairest, and to whom?

Gabriel M.A.
02-27-2006, 15:17
Personally I found that people’s comments in the threads were often about criteria that were off the poll.

Yep. Ever watched the US version of "The Weakest Link"? Voting off the "weakest" link? Yeah, right...

John
02-27-2006, 15:23
Stay the course. Leicas look good, they get more votes. If anything looks better than the Leica that wins, it will win or come close to winning. :)

allthumbs
02-27-2006, 15:26
You know what they say: "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder." And when it comes to cameras, in the eye of the holder as well. Personally, I don't see how anyone can think the M's are anything to look at, but if I'd ever had one in my hands I'd probably see them differently.

Kim Coxon
02-27-2006, 16:20
I doubt it will make much difference which way you do it. If you pool the results, all the Barnack users will vote for whichever 3 it is, the M users for the M and the Canon users for the P.

So I say put all the Leicas in and it will split the Leica vote and give the P a chance! :D

Rich Silfver
02-27-2006, 19:36
Ok, we'll proceed with the initial plans. The finalists will be posted tonight for you all to vote on.

dadsm3
02-27-2006, 20:03
I always said this will be vote on quanties sold. So let it be written, so let it be done.
But as a previous member said, beat an M3 with a 50mm Summilux or get over it.
Astonished at the looks at the 'competition', beautiful stuff. But a '55 Porsche is a Porsche.....sorry FrankG.
Mike

jan normandale
03-07-2006, 12:25
while surfing for RF's I landed on Steve Gandy's website. Lo and behold! My choice of "most beautiful camera"was validated.. yay Bantam! Take that Leica.

http://cameraquest.com/superban.htm

Polls always have to be refined to obtain the responses that will answer the poll question. One of the problems for the poll on “most beautiful” was there were more multiples of Leica than say Yashica so what has happened is the sheer number of Leica entries have overwhelmed other entries. I also feel that some people are voting for their cameras and not the looks of the listed cameras. Should we just rename this the LRFF not RFF? Then it would make sense to an outsider.

Rich, perhaps it might have been better to ask every one to send in their top ten and no more than three from on maker. Personally I found that people’s comments in the threads were often about criteria that were off the poll. The poll was about the “asthetic appearance” of the cameras listed. Several comments show selections not based on this criteria.

Some beautiful cameras have been given marginal recognition, two to my mind are the the Kodak Bantam Special and the Hassy XPan clean and elegant cameras that truly are ‘beautiful’.

Aesthetically Leica cameras are functional not beautiful. In black they look like stealth bombers, unlike a Concorde which has flowing lines and grace unafraid to shine. No hiding in the black recesses of the wings for them. I know I’ll hear the engineers come out and say functionality is “beautiful” we also know they are just engineers with no heart or soul. Art is lost on them and they shouldn’t be allowed to vote. Record the names of the engineers and block them from the next poll.. (joke!)

BTW none of my selections are in the finals. For what it’s worth I do have a Leica but even out of a box it was functional but wasn’t beautiful. I don’t confuse the two. The Bantam is not what I’d take to shoot, but it is what I considered to fit your criteria of “beautiful”. It would have helped if there had been more ‘beautiful’ cameras to choose from.

That could be the next topic, a “post the most beautiful camera” thread.