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pixelvandal
10-19-2018, 14:03
https://pixii.fr

Saw this on the interwebs this morning.
Looks interesting. Could be a cheap compact Leica MD. Of sorts.... No LCD anyway.
Let's see if it actually gets made or becomes another konost project.

peterm1
10-19-2018, 14:23
The documentation says it will have 5.5m pixels. Which suggests to me it will be just a vanity toy for hipsters. Or according to Google translate "jouet de vanité pour hipsters"

shawn
10-19-2018, 14:33
The documentation says it will have 5.5m pixels. Which suggests to me it will be just a vanity toy for hipsters. Or according to Google translate "jouet de vanité pour hipsters"

Doesn't the documentation say it has 5.5um pixels? Assuming a full frame sensor that should be around 30 megapixels. Why would that make it a vanity toy?

Shawn

Veggies
10-19-2018, 14:38
intriguing

mpaniagua
10-19-2018, 14:47
5.5um pixels is the size of the pixel. So each pixel measures 5.5 micro meters

So no, it is not a 5.5 megapixels camera :)

Seems interesting.

Marcelo

mpaniagua
10-19-2018, 14:49
By the way, each micrometer is the 100th part of a millimeter :)

Marcelo

peterm1
10-19-2018, 14:50
Doesn't the documentation say it has 5.5um pixels? Assuming a full frame sensor that should be around 30 megapixels. Why would that make it a vanity toy?

Shawn

Perhaps I should have put my glasses on :o

splitimageview
10-19-2018, 14:54
now THIS is indeed interesting...

Keith
10-19-2018, 15:09
It is really interesting I agree. I gather the camera functions without a smart phone in its orbit if required?

splitimageview
10-19-2018, 15:16
I'm not assuming it's full-frame, seems if it were, they would have said so in the specs.

Uses a standard Sony battery...

Rick Waldroup
10-19-2018, 15:20
What about media? Will it be able to take some type memory card or is it just directly putting the images on your phone?

splitimageview
10-19-2018, 15:26
Says "8 or 32GB internal storage"

I would assume files could be batch uploaded to smartphone via wifi

Darthfeeble
10-19-2018, 16:04
Seems to me to be a gadget that neither the phone crowd will like nor the camera crowd.

ChrisPlatt
10-19-2018, 16:15
Gr8 4 sk8ers!

Chris

davidnewtonguitars
10-19-2018, 16:25
Where does the film go?

shawn
10-19-2018, 16:32
From the specs this might not need a mechanical shutter as they specify that the sensor uses a global shutter.

Shawn

presspass
10-19-2018, 16:35
Two major points missing - release date and price. Once we know that, we can move on to the more minor points like how we can get the images out and how good they will be. And even then, it's not a Leica so it really won't be worth buying.

jsrockit
10-19-2018, 16:51
It is really interesting I agree. I gather the camera functions without a smart phone in its orbit if required?

It better...

shawn
10-19-2018, 17:00
It better...

Yes, they state that in their press release.

Shawn

B-9
10-19-2018, 17:10
I like the idea of using a smartphone,

At least for me,

I have a Iphone 7+ and it’s larger than any camera lcd.

The added bonus being the cheaper editing apps that are now capable of handling raw strange enough this is definitely the future of cameras. Advanced communication with our personal computers we carry everywhere.

Hope it’s fairly priced and not some pipe dream scam to drum up page views.

DougFord
10-19-2018, 17:24
Son of Konost :eek:

OK Ladies and Germs, place your bets.
I'm thinking this thing is actually going to be built.

nickthetasmaniac
10-19-2018, 17:54
Global shutter!?

Sumarongi
10-19-2018, 17:59
Global shutter!?

Well, they're FRENCH camera makers!

They once even made a «Fap Norca Pin-Up», see:

http://www.collection-appareils.fr/x/html/appareil-10826-Fap_Norca%20Pin-Up.html

Huss
10-19-2018, 18:13
I like it. Looks like a digital Minolta CLE

bmattock
10-19-2018, 19:03
I wish it said what size the sensor is.

nickthetasmaniac
10-19-2018, 19:21
Well, they're FRENCH camera makers!

They once even made a «Fap Norca Pin-Up», see:

http://www.collection-appareils.fr/x/html/appareil-10826-Fap_Norca%20Pin-Up.html

What's being a French camera maker got to do with a global shutter? I don't follow...

Beemermark
10-19-2018, 19:40
I like the blond.

Sort of miss the point of the camera

shawn
10-19-2018, 19:49
Global shutter!?

A global shutter is an electronic shutter where the entire sensor data is read out at the same instant.

Typically, electronic shutters (rolling shutters) scan over the sensor and it takes some amount of time which can lead to motion effects. For example this was shot with a Pentax Q using an adapted lens so it used an electronic rolling shutter which caused the distortion on the props.

https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2918/14072553217_6bc188402e_z.jpg

You can get motion artifacts with mechanical shutters too (they scan over the film/sensor) but the effects are typically less noticeable compared to rolling electronic shutters. A global electronic shutter avoids these distortions.

If it does use a global electronic shutter in place of a mechanical shutter it will be totally silent with no chance of shutter shock as there are no moving parts for the shutter.

Shawn

farlymac
10-19-2018, 20:44
To say the least, it looks to be a well designed and constructed camera. More sophisticated than quite a few Kickstarter projects I've seen.

But just the fact it has the M mount means it could be a bit pricey. If they can keep it within $1,000 it might sell like hotcakes.

PF

nickthetasmaniac
10-19-2018, 20:50
A global shutter is an electronic shutter where the entire sensor data is read out at the same instant.

I probably should have elaborated on that... I know what a global shutter is, I was just surprised to see it listed amongst the specs. I was under the impression global shutters were considered one of the big photographic engineering challenges, even for tech giants like Sony.

Out to Lunch
10-19-2018, 23:36
Seems to me to be a gadget that neither the phone crowd will like nor the camera crowd. My thinking as well.

Erik van Straten
10-19-2018, 23:44
It is not a small camera, I guess the size is almost an M2. The base of the rangefinder is huge.


Erik.

Dguebey
10-20-2018, 00:28
"Well, they're FRENCH camera makers!"

I know. Therein lies the rub, and it might be a big one. I like French cooking for sure, but engineering wise I remember Le Car too.

You never heard of "Imaging Valley" around Grenoble, in the French Alps! Here they build sensors for Leica M240 and some other gear.

See https://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1332112

Contarama
10-20-2018, 01:25
If anyone could pull this off it would be the French....how much bebe? :)

Jamie123
10-20-2018, 01:39
I'm not assuming it's full-frame, seems if it were, they would have said so in the specs.


Also, all the product shots seem to have a very wide lens attached (like 21mm) which would be an odd choice to use in an advert for a camera with a FF sensor.

Paul T.
10-20-2018, 03:03
Seems a really, really good concept to me.

I like the looks, very Braun.

But the crunch will be whether the screen-free camera costs more than a camera with screen. We've had it noted before that an RF mechanism, being mechanical, is one of the most expensive components of a camera and quite likely will cost more than a swanky screen made in China/

Mcary
10-20-2018, 04:03
"Framelines for standard prime lenses: 40/50mm, 28/35mm" So ideal for some but rather limiting for others.

[email protected] if anyone wants to email them to ask what size sensor it has.

shawn
10-20-2018, 04:35
I probably should have elaborated on that... I know what a global shutter is, I was just surprised to see it listed amongst the specs. I was under the impression global shutters were considered one of the big photographic engineering challenges, even for tech giants like Sony.

I think they are difficult for sensor manufacturers, but once it is built into the sensor it is just a feature to use by the camera manufacturer. If it is using a global shutter that is an interesting way of reducing the mechanical complexity of the camera.

Shawn

willie_901
10-20-2018, 05:43
The Leica M10, M240, M9 pixel pitches are 6.0, 6.0 and 6.9 um respectively. The Nikon D-850 has a 4.35 um pixel pitch. The sensor area had better be 24 X 36 mm. Otherwise there's not much sense in using the M/LTM mount. Since, 24 X 36 mm sensors are common, so I'm optimistic.

Using the contemporary smart-phone user interface is obvious to everyone but the mainstream manufacturers.

For one thing menu set up and changes could be significantly improved. It would be trivial to save and switch between different sets of complete menu parameters. Second, the images would be integrated into all the way smartphone images are currently used. Third, manufacturing costs would be significantly lower. Building and supporting iOS and Android apps is much less resource intensive compared to in-camera firmware.

If the electronic shutter is truly a practical global shutter, then that is also a significant breakthrough.

I hope frame line support is easily expanded. I'm not very interested in medium-telephoto focal lengths with an optical RF.

Besides wondering if the camera will ever make it to market, I have two concerns. Will the rangefinder mechanism be useful, accurate and robust? Signal-to-noise ratio determines dynamic range and low-light performance. Assuming the sensor is 24 X 36 mm, will the SNR be at least as good as current APS-C sensors?

c.poulton
10-20-2018, 06:23
This concept does sound very appealing to me - it’s great not to have a screen on the camera and using an app which could be customised or perhaps even allow for 3rd party developers to build upon is quite exciting.

Although I’m a 100% film shooter, I am tempted by this concept. A simple no frills camera that takes my M glass and doesn’t have the distractions of so many digital cameras on the market today. This could be one of the most exciting camera releases in a long time.

Let’s see if it actually gets to market and ultimately what the cost will be - so far so good but the developers have a long way to go yet. I personally wish them luck.

squirrel$$$bandit
10-20-2018, 08:06
This is really cool—I would love a screenless camera that instantly zaps photos to my phone. And the design is appealing—different but not ugly. Hope it comes to fruition.

jsrockit
10-20-2018, 09:50
I think it looks pretty nice actually. I wouldn`t even bother with the cell phone. Of course, the key to this camera is price vs. quality as always.

CameraQuest
10-20-2018, 14:31
Folks,

this thread is about an important new French camera,
not French cars.

Please stay on topic.

Thanks

eckhardf
10-20-2018, 15:59
Coincidence? - Hippolyte Pixii (1808-1835): "An instrument maker from Paris, France. In 1832 he built an early form of alternating current electrical generator." Wikipedia.

nukecoke
10-20-2018, 16:28
To say the least, it looks to be a well designed and constructed camera. More sophisticated than quite a few Kickstarter projects I've seen.

But just the fact it has the M mount means it could be a bit pricey. If they can keep it within $1,000 it might sell like hotcakes.

PF

I think equipping the optical rangefinder alone would make it go over the $1000 price tag.

Darthfeeble
10-20-2018, 16:40
I went through all of the site and couldn't find the two most important specs for a prospective buyer, sensor size and megapixel count. Makes me a little suspicious.

farlymac
10-20-2018, 20:28
I went through all of the site and couldn't find the two most important specs for a prospective buyer, sensor size and megapixel count. Makes me a little suspicious.

The commentators on PetaPixel have been doing some detective work, and came up with a couple of candidates, one being M4/3, the other APS-C. Take into consideration you are putting the images directly on your phone over WiFi or Bluetooth, the pixel size/pitch is 5.5um, and the internal memory is a minimum of 8gb (32gb optional), I don't believe it's going to be a very large sensor. RAW output is quite doubtful too.

PF

Jamie Pillers
10-20-2018, 22:44
Just curious... does the link between lens helicoid and rangefinder have to be mechanical? Could the lens helicoid push on some sort of electrical contact that operates some sort of computer circuit? And if so, could this save money?

Paul T.
10-21-2018, 00:45
Just curious... does the link between lens helicoid and rangefinder have to be mechanical? Could the lens helicoid push on some sort of electrical contact that operates some sort of computer circuit? And if so, could this save money?

That's possible but you'd have to factor that against the design time, of essentially reinventing the wheel.

In any case, no way will this come in at under $1000. You simply can't expect a ground-up, new camera design, for a niche market, at that price point. What was the Epson launch price? $2k? We'll be lucky to get that.

Similarly, the inventors must surely know a m4/3 sensor machine will be dead in the market.

teddy
10-21-2018, 00:48
If the sensor is excellent from 100-800 then I would buy it, because I don't shoot anything on film in the Leica world beyond 400 ISO.
This is SO interesting - I hope they have success!

aizan
10-21-2018, 01:26
$10 says this is just another konost.

santino
10-21-2018, 01:43
M4/3 is unlikely the sensor size in combination with an m mount... imagine the lack of wide angle lenses then... a 15 would become a 30 and so on.

eckhardf
10-21-2018, 02:15
Hmmm...it has frame lines for 28/35 and 40/50mm; this suggests full-frame to me - apsc crop factor is 1.5x and m3/4 is 2x - not many M-mount lenses around to fit the frame lines with these ratios....

Lss
10-21-2018, 03:07
I hope this happens.

No need to read into the vaporware specs before the product materializes, though.

Sumarongi
10-21-2018, 03:16
this thread is about an important new French camera,
not French cars.

Just a reminder: the French were -- and they certainly are -- absolutely prepared to build very capable cameras, e.g. here a pristine example of a Foca Universel RC:

https://mfbernard79.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/universelrc.jpg

willie_901
10-21-2018, 07:01
The commentators on PetaPixel have been doing some detective work, and came up with a couple of candidates, one being M4/3, the other APS-C. Take into consideration you are putting the images directly on your phone over WiFi or Bluetooth, the pixel size/pitch is 5.5um, and the internal memory is a minimum of 8gb (32gb optional), I don't believe it's going to be a very large sensor. RAW output is quite doubtful too.

PF

I don't think sensor surface area is limited by internal storage capacity or data transfer rates.

The M10 raw file size is 25-30 MB. 30 MB is only 0.03 GB. 8 GB of internal memory is not a limitation for still photography. The 20 megapixel M4/3 Panasonic DC-G9 Lumix raw file size is about 24 MB.

Many people will only use JPEGs because that's what they use with their smart phone cameras. In this case Bluetooth transfer is practical. The Leica M10 offers 24MP, 12MP, or 6MP JPEGs. A 6MP JPEG would suffice for image review or web-based image sharing. Large JPEGs (or raw) could be saved simultaneously in-camera and eventually downloaded to a computer.

WiFi and, or Bluetooth transfer speeds between devices depends on many variables. There are several different Bluetooth specifications as well. A slow BT transfer rate would be ~ 1/4 MB per second. BT V3 can be ~ 10 times faster. Often the camera-to-phone distance will be short. The transfer can begin immediately after the shutter closes. I think lossless compressed DNG raw file transfer is practical. However BT transfer may only be practical if both devices support BT V3 or V4.

The Panasonic DC-G9 Lumix offers up BT V 4.2 and 5 GHz WiFi.

A seperate issue is the file-transfer power drain for camera and phone could be an issue. Also WiFi network management is a complication. When the phone-to-camera transfer is done as part of a home network, the transfer is indirect. In some cases a slow home network would be a problem. Direct transfer means the phone would no longer be part of the home WiFi network.

All these issues would be moot if the camera had a USB 4 (or better yet a USB-C) port. Then raw files transfer to a computer would be fast.

People could just use JPEG transfer for image review or even selection and transfer the raw files via USB at a later time.

CameraQuest
10-21-2018, 09:46
I know someone involved with the Pixii project.

It might turn out better than most are expecting.

Stephen

Sumarongi
10-21-2018, 10:01
I know someone involved with the Pixii project.

It might turn out better than most are expecting.

Stephen

It might? It certainly will, dear Stephen!

shawn
10-21-2018, 10:24
People could just use JPEG transfer for image review or even selection and transfer the raw files via USB at a later time.

Agree with what you are saying but if you look into the website more it does not appear as if the camera will do JPEGs at all. It sounds like they saving RAW only and are offloading all additional processing to their app or a computer.

Shawn

xayraa33
10-21-2018, 10:31
So if you don't own a cell phone or so called "smartphone".. can you still use this camera?

CameraQuest
10-21-2018, 16:36
Follow PixiiCamera on Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/pixiicamera/

why? Pixii's interaction with the public

DougFord
10-21-2018, 17:43
Just curious... does the link between lens helicoid and rangefinder have to be mechanical? Could the lens helicoid push on some sort of electrical contact that operates some sort of computer circuit? And if so, could this save money?

Yeah, did they reinvent the mechanical RF assembly?
It seems prone to misalignment and presumably, labor intensive to build. At some point a fly by wire RF could make sense. Rather helicoid on cam think helicoid on digital potentiometer. A small DC motor would have to drive the thing. Maybe even some sort of self calibration feature.
Or perhaps a new mechanical design. I don't think it will be like the one in a leica, in any case.

jsrockit
10-21-2018, 17:45
I notice the camera photos that you can see the lens in is the CV 21mm F4. They say the widest frame line is 28mm. Maybe this is an APSC camera? Just a guess.

retinax
10-21-2018, 18:26
I notice the camera photos that you can see the lens in is the CV 21mm F4. They say the widest frame line is 28mm. Maybe this is an APSC camera? Just a guess.

Ah so that would be a 28 equivalent frame line?
Too bad if it's APS-C. I don't mind the smaller sensor per se, but if there are no lenses made for it, wider M-mount lenses are unnecessarily big, slow and expensive.

shawn
10-21-2018, 18:29
So if you don't own a cell phone or so called "smartphone".. can you still use this camera?

The press release says it can be used stand alone.

Shawn

xayraa33
10-21-2018, 18:34
The press release says it can be used stand alone.

Shawn

That is good to hear.

shawn
10-21-2018, 18:35
Yeah, did they reinvent the mechanical RF assembly?
It seems prone to misalignment and presumably, labor intensive to build. At some point a fly by wire RF could make sense. Rather helicoid on cam think helicoid on digital potentiometer. A small DC motor would have to drive the thing. Maybe even some sort of self calibration feature.
Or perhaps a new mechanical design. I don't think it will be like the one in a leica, in any case.

I might be reading too much into it but the 'A New Original Rangefinder' there is an image showing what looks to be a digital focus scale that ranges from 0.7 to infinity. A position sensor on the rangefinder mechanism would allow that to be incorporated into the camera. Or just a position sensor and then a stepper motor could handle moving the optics for the second image position.

Shawn

retinax
10-21-2018, 18:57
I might be reading too much into it but the 'A New Original Rangefinder' there is an image showing what looks to be a digital focus scale that ranges from 0.7 to infinity. A position sensor on the rangefinder mechanism would allow that to be incorporated into the camera. Or just a position sensor and then a stepper motor could handle moving the optics for the second image position.

Shawn

That would be neat, if it works without noticeable lag, and probably cheaper to build than a mechanical RF.

shawn
10-21-2018, 19:20
That would be neat, if it works without noticeable lag, and probably cheaper to build than a mechanical RF.

The no noticeable lag would be important. If they did have something like this it would only take software to allow a user to tweak the RF for different lenses. That could be very slick.

Leica has some form of a movement sensor in their rangefinder assembly. It is how the live view cameras can do automatic MF assist (zoom) when the user adjusts focus.

Shawn

Dante_Stella
10-21-2018, 21:21
Anybody catch that it uses a Sony battery (NP-FW50) or that the OVF looks like it was photochopped from a CV finder (the same kind that Sony sells)? Would not be completely surprising if this had some Sony A7 DNA.

Dante

Lughmatic
10-22-2018, 02:49
Anybody catch that it uses a Sony battery (NP-FW50) or that the OVF looks like it was photochopped from a CV finder (the same kind that Sony sells)? Would not be completely surprising if this had some Sony A7 DNA.

Dante

I hope you're right! getting it down to MFT or APS-C will make the camera difficult/impossible to work with "wide&fast" (assiming the 35mm minimum f length) lenses.

Talking about price... if it remains around a second hand M8 price, they'll sell it....if this cross the M9 second hand tag, it'll turn out a disaster.

Also, for god's sake, sell it directly. A kickstarter or similar for this price levels is a lottery ticket.

jsrockit
10-22-2018, 03:22
More info...

https://photorumors.com/2018/10/22/additional-information-on-the-upcoming-pixii-camera-with-leica-m-mount/

Half the price of an M... but most likely not FF.

shawn
10-22-2018, 03:36
Looks like the design is still a little fluid. Backpanel is different between the various pictures on that site.

Shawn

Lughmatic
10-22-2018, 04:03
More info...

https://photorumors.com/2018/10/22/additional-information-on-the-upcoming-pixii-camera-with-leica-m-mount/

Half the price of an M... but most likely not FF.


So we're in the 3000€ land, for an APS-C..... :bang:
And we'll need, for example a 28/35mm 1.4-2.8 to have a decent 40/50mm. Explained : We'll have to spend >3k€ to save 3k€ in the camera, and end with a "non-Leica" camera. Probably I'm missing the point but... :confused:

Paul T.
10-22-2018, 04:10
So we're in the 3000€ land, for an APS-C..... :bang:
And we'll need, for example a 28/35mm 1.4-2.8 to have a decent 40/50mm. Explained : We'll have to spend >3k€ to save 3k€ in the camera, and end with a "non-Leica" camera. Probably I'm missing the point but... :confused:

If it's APS-H, like the M8, that's not terrible. APS-C would be a disappointment

willie_901
10-22-2018, 05:53
Agree with what you are saying but if you look into the website more it does not appear as if the camera will do JPEGs at all. It sounds like they saving RAW only and are offloading all additional processing to their app or a computer.

Shawn

That makes sense. Why spend time and money building in-camera demoasaicking? iOS 12 already supports raw import from SDHC cards (with a dongle). I was wondering if PIXII would use DNG. There are iOS apps (other than Adobe's) that process DNG files. Most won't care as long as they can share rendered JPEGs as easily as they now share in-phone camera photos.

No doubt Adobe and non-Adobe Android apps handle DNG as well.

jsrockit
10-22-2018, 06:45
If it's APS-H, like the M8, that's not terrible. APS-C would be a disappointment

Who makes a cheap apsc h sensor these days? I would imagine a last generation FF sensor would be cheaper than some one off apsc h.

Paul T.
10-22-2018, 07:01
Who makes a cheap apsc h sensor these days? I would imagine a last generation FF sensor would be cheaper than some one off apsc h.

I'm sure I read Canon versions are available, but am wishlisting rather than predicting.

[edit]: Here, (https://www.phase1vision.com/sensors/canon-sensors/area-scan-sensors/120-megapixel-cmos) for instance.

Emile de Leon
10-22-2018, 07:25
$795 and A7S sensor...I'm in..lol..
1/2 the Leica price..well...

TEZillman
10-22-2018, 07:33
After reading the information about this camera, it seems like the primary benefit is to have your photos automatically transferred to your phone or other devise. I currently have a Fuji x camera that can have M mount lenses adapted to it and can transfer photos via Bluetooth to my iPhone and iPad. I'm sure a lot of other cameras have a similar features. It works OK, but it's often a pain to get the two to communicate via Bluetooth. A faster and more reliable process is to use a sd to lighting adapter for transferring photos.

If this camera transfers images seamlessly, it might be kind of interesting, but I'd expect that it will use Bluetooth connectivity that will not stay connected all the time. I certainly wouldn't pay several thousand dollars for what I would consider a fairly minor convenience when I could, say, buy a Fuji x-t3 for half as much and just transfer images, probably more reliably, via a $30 adapter.

nightfly
10-22-2018, 07:35
If it's full frame, I could be interested.

I like the concept. The camera is just for shooting and everything else happens external. More film like in some ways.

However, I bet it uses some sort of sub fullframe sensor due to cost.

Love to see it come to fruition but not holding my breath.

benlees
10-22-2018, 07:36
If it is APS-anything and the price is similar to a used M240 then...

Scapevision
10-22-2018, 08:59
Definitely won't be full frame, or any more of a computer generation gimmick again. Internal 8Gb or 32 Gb memory, without expansion slot means either very low megapickle count or small sensor size. If it costs more than Rd-1, what's the pointe?

chambrenoire
10-22-2018, 09:14
About time someone challenges Leica in the mirrorless digital RF field. Hope it's full frame and cheap/affordable :)

jsrockit
10-22-2018, 12:18
Definitely won't be full frame, or any more of a computer generation gimmick again. Internal 8Gb or 32 Gb memory, without expansion slot means either very low megapickle count or small sensor size. If it costs more than Rd-1, what's the pointe?

Well, if it is modern APSC and over 6mp, there is a point...

splitimageview
10-22-2018, 12:19
Points will be evident once the price (point) and the sensor are known.

:)

xayraa33
10-22-2018, 12:23
About time someone challenges Leica in the mirrorless digital RF field. Hope it's full frame and cheap/affordable :)

I am amazed that Cosina Voigtländer has not picked up the mantel and ran with it and made an affordable line of FF digital RF with M mount, something like a Canon P meets the Epson R-d1 ( which BTW was based from their heritage of film RF cameras) to augment their line of fine M mount lenses.

rogazilla
10-22-2018, 13:02
I am very interested in this. However, full frame would be more ideal given the frameline indicated in the spec. 28/35/40/50 are the lenses that I have. If this is APSC then we are looking at view angle equivalent of 42/52/60/75 give or take a little which is still very usable. I use 35/50 the most and either format works in this sense.

My take on why they only published the pixel size but no sensor size is probably because the sensor is still being developed and the challenge of global shutter is read out speed. I wouldn't be surprised to see a full frame but low pixel count? if you want this to be an extension of the phone, the sensor has to outperform the phone to be worth while on top of form factor.

I look forward to the spec and price and reviews.

Huss
10-22-2018, 13:17
I am amazed that Cosina Voigtländer has not picked up the mantel and ran with it and made an affordable line of FF digital RF with M mount, something like a Canon P meets the Epson R-d1 ( which BTW was based from their heritage of film RF cameras) to augment their line of fine M mount lenses.

Y not a digital Zeiss Ikon ZM?

jsrockit
10-22-2018, 13:24
Zeiss or CV would have already done it if they were interested... I would think. The time to do so would have been 2008-2013.

xayraa33
10-22-2018, 13:27
Y not a digital Zeiss Ikon ZM?

Because Zeiss as a firm does things slow and sure and is as manoeuvrable as a super tanker making a three point turn in choppy seas. CV can pull this off much easier.

BillBingham2
10-22-2018, 14:08
Perhaps a CV range finder, APSC sensor (CMOS!!), M-Mount, no image viewing on the camera, or an expensive EVF, sounds like a very nice option.

B2 (;->

rfaspen
10-27-2018, 16:45
Truth be told, if I have to carry two pieces of equipment with me (camera and phone) I am not terribly interested. I don't always have my phone with me, and I don't need yet more reasons to be tied to that thing. If this camera can play as a stand alone tool, it could be of interest to me. It would have to be full frame though.

I don't see any indications (either way) this new camera can play on its own.

splitimageview
10-27-2018, 17:09
I would be surprised if it could not work independently of the phone.

First things first, let's see if this thing actually emerges from promise to reality. At that point, it can be critiqued for how well/poorly the concept is executed...

shawn
10-27-2018, 18:05
Truth be told, if I have to carry two pieces of equipment with me (camera and phone) I am not terribly interested. I don't always have my phone with me, and I don't need yet more reasons to be tied to that thing. If this camera can play as a stand alone tool, it could be of interest to me. It would have to be full frame though.

I don't see any indications (either way) this new camera can play on its own.

Again, the site does in fact say the camera can be used stand alone. Click on the press link and read the news release.

"Pixii is a geniune stand alone camera."
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1LmD6UKazx62kO_dXBQHt32-dGcLXIklf

Shawn

David Hughes
11-09-2018, 02:00
Has anyone ever seen a camera that was not stand alone?


Regards, David

jsrockit
11-09-2018, 03:36
The Sony Lens cameras ...or the DXO One.

bayernfan
11-09-2018, 07:11
I don't like being pessimistic, but I suspect this will be an overpriced crop-sensor camera.

Huss
11-09-2018, 07:13
Has anyone ever seen a camera that was not stand alone?


Regards, David

Sony QX100

shawn
11-09-2018, 13:45
The Sony Lens cameras ...or the DXO One.

DXO One can be used stand alone. It is a fantastically tiny little *good* camera when used that way.

https://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166245

Shawn

nukecoke
11-12-2018, 09:36
It's APSC, priced €3500:

https://leicarumors.com/2018/11/12/pixii-camera-will-have-12-mp-aps-c-43-sensor-with-global-shutter-priced-around-e3500.aspx/

splitimageview
11-12-2018, 09:40
hope the pricing rumor isn't accurate. :)

chambrenoire
11-12-2018, 09:47
12 MP? I mean yeah sure, megapixels isn't everything but come on...
I'll keep shooting with my lovely M8 :)

ptpdprinter
11-12-2018, 09:50
Pretty much spec'ed as an M8 which was introduced in 2004, only without a rear screen or the Leica name. I am sure it will find some buyers as a fashion accessory, but I can't see any photographers buying it.

predicolous
11-12-2018, 09:58
why bother to buy a new APS-C if you can buy an M8 (APS-H) or even a fullframe M9 for less?!
Really can't see their sales argument

is the sensor on the Pixii also CMOS?

xayraa33
11-12-2018, 10:03
With those antiquated specs and hefty price one wonders of what is the whole point of this endeavour ?

I mean a new FF Sony A7 II with kit lens was selling at below a grand USD in the USA recently.

Larry Cloetta
11-12-2018, 10:08
It's APSC, priced €3500:

https://leicarumors.com/2018/11/12/pixii-camera-will-have-12-mp-aps-c-43-sensor-with-global-shutter-priced-around-e3500.aspx/

LOL. At 350 Euro I'd pass.

aizan
11-12-2018, 10:31
The sensor is APS-C...but with a 4:3 aspect ratio? Weird...could be interesting. I would not mind shooting this with Fuji telephotos for portraits, and adapting an 18mm full frame lens to shoot architecture on vacations (depending on what shift adapters there are).

And hey, global shutter!

Edit: uh...no LCD screen? Without an EVF, I can't do either of the things I was thinking of. UGH!!!

Archlich
11-12-2018, 10:33
Although not competitive, it sounds like a real thing...which is better than all those scams.

Huss
11-12-2018, 10:42
So this 12mp apsc camera is more expensive than the 46mp full frame Nikon Z7?

jsrockit
11-12-2018, 11:03
Who would buy this over a used M240? I mean it is a nice design and I do think it is cool to see someone attempt something new, but you can't charge the Leica tax on an under-spec'd camera when you are not Leica... :)

jsrockit
11-12-2018, 11:04
So this 12mp apsc camera is more expensive than the 46mp full frame Nikon Z7?

Well, in all fairness, they aren't a volume player right?

jsrockit
11-12-2018, 11:07
I mean a new FF Sony A7 II with kit lens was selling at below a grand USD in the USA recently.

Yeah, and some people hate Sony. I'd rather shoot with almost any other camera than Sony. That said, I too would choose the Sony over this just because it is better suited to my photography (but I really do not like using a Sony camera).

xayraa33
11-12-2018, 11:25
Yeah, and some people hate Sony. I'd rather shoot with almost any other camera than Sony. That said, I too would choose the Sony over this just because it is better suited to my photography (but I really do not like using a Sony camera).

The thing is that love or hate Sony, one can make a decision to buy or not to buy a particular brand on price alone.

Both Canon and Nikon's new FF mirrorless cameras are priced to over 2.5x to to 3x of what a comparable and relatively modern Sony model that is on sale.

For most, bargain sale pricing alone can make deciding which brand to buy all that much easier.

ptpdprinter
11-12-2018, 11:27
Although not competitive, it sounds like a real thing...which is better than all those scams.
You don't think $3500 for this camera with these specs isn't a scam of sorts?

Jamie123
11-12-2018, 12:12
You don't think $3500 for this camera with these specs isn't a scam of sorts?

They could sell a 1mp camera for $100'000 and it still wouldn't be a scam so long as they deliver what they promise for the price they advertise.

Archlich
11-12-2018, 12:17
You don't think $3500 for this camera with these specs isn't a scam of sorts?

I chose my word because I'm not implying it is real. It simply sounds realistic as the cost of a low-volume player entering a niche-of-the-niche market could manage to offer.

There is a reason that Zeiss/Cosina/Voigtlander/Fuji/Whoever still hasn't churn out the full frame digital rangefinder with a price tag under $2,000 that everyone's so gonna buy.

jsrockit
11-12-2018, 12:24
Pretty much spec'ed as an M8 which was introduced in 2004...

Well, probably better high ISO and dynamic range...

xayraa33
11-12-2018, 12:25
They could sell a 1mp camera for $100'000 and it still wouldn't be a scam so long as they deliver what they promise for the price they advertise.

It does not even have to be as high as 1mp and could be super cheesily built as ever and as long as it is delivered it will not be a scam, but a slight rip-off ala Yashica Y35 :D

jarski
11-12-2018, 12:29
Epson RD1 users finally have viable upgrade path? :rolleyes:

nukecoke
11-12-2018, 13:21
Although not competitive, it sounds like a real thing...which is better than all those scams.

You don't think $3500 for this camera with these specs isn't a scam of sorts?

If I had to buy something scam-y, I'd buy the Yashica Y35 and save the 3000+ $ for hem, another digital camera.

santino
11-12-2018, 13:50
At least it looks good...
I hope they are going to lower the price by 1500 or so.

bayernfan
11-12-2018, 15:12
I don't like being pessimistic, but I suspect this will be an overpriced crop-sensor camera.

sometimes i hate it when i'm right. :bang:

Corran
11-12-2018, 16:09
Should've stayed vaporware.

Huss
11-12-2018, 16:18
I'm surprised that they can source 12mp aps-c sensors. What do those cost now, a nickel?

DougFord
11-12-2018, 17:50
Perhaps a monochrome sensor. Keep it simple. Presumably the designers would rather write the code for a monochrome source. Or did they specify otherwise?

Keith
11-12-2018, 20:48
Who would buy this over a used M240? I mean it is a nice design and I do think it is cool to see someone attempt something new, but you can't charge the Leica tax on an under-spec'd camera when you are not Leica... :)

Good point!

YouAreHere
11-12-2018, 22:33
Maybe this one is proof of concept and their next model will be what the M9 was to the M8.

jsrockit
11-13-2018, 03:00
I'm surprised that they can source 12mp aps-c sensors. What do those cost now, a nickel?

Now? I've never seen any other 12mp 4/3 sensor used in a camera...

Paul T.
11-13-2018, 03:06
it's a niche camera. Priced at far less than was the M-8 on launch. It's meaningless to compare the price with a second-hand camera in terms of whether it's a rip off. In fact it's silly to call it a rip-off; plainly no one will make a fortune from this. 20 per cent of that price in Europe will be purchase tax anyway. So stop being grumpy old men.

Far more important than the price, which professional photographers will offset against tax anyway, is corner smearing and how well that rangefinder actually works. When folks are getting all nostalgic about the Epson RD they ought also to remember how we had to keep sending the damn things off for RF recalibraiton etc.

presspass
11-13-2018, 04:08
I really enjoy threads like this. It's amazing how many people have opinions about a product that has no firm price, no firm specifications, and no firm release date. Talk about vaporware.

mod2001
11-13-2018, 04:36
I really enjoy threads like this. It's amazing how many people have opinions about a product that has no firm price, no firm specifications, and no firm release date. Talk about vaporware.

Then you should visit the German DSLR-Forum, they have a part there which is solely dedicated to speculations, 50 pages and more about a yet unknown camera or lens ore whatever are not unusual. And if the product gets announced (like the PiXII), there is then another part which is only dedicated to announcements, adding another 50 pages or more. For example in case of the Canon R, 522 posts in the speculation part and 1787 posts when the R was announced but still no clear specs or price available.

Juergen

Ko.Fe.
11-13-2018, 04:56
I cap my JPEG1 and if camera is capable, RAW files to 10-12 MP.
And I convert my edited JEPG1 files to 2MB, 2800 pixels on long side.

12MP might be the fw cap for fast transfer. This camera meant to be external camera for mobile phone and for those who are using mobile devices to edit images and to look at them on Insta.

It is a niche product indeed. Who needs MPs and large sensor if pictures are edited and viewed on mobile phone?

I think these guys knew and understand more than Zeiss :).

Fjäll
11-13-2018, 05:42
How about making an affordable and simple digital Leica M mount camera?

Larry Cloetta
11-13-2018, 06:01
How about making an affordable and simple digital Leica M mount camera?

For whatever reason, manufacturers and dreamers have decided they will try any and everything but that.

Rayt
11-13-2018, 17:47
How about making an affordable and simple digital Leica M mount camera?

My film Leicas are 20 to 50 years old and built like a tank. Same with my Rollei TLRs. They will last forever even with regular use. What I don’t understand is why make a solid metal digital M when it’s practical life span is less than 10 years and most people upgrade within 3 or 5? Can digital M Leicas be more affordable if made from a polymer exterior or would the fans not buy it at all? Seems like an obvious place to cut costs? Or maybe offer an alternative model with a more disposable shell?

Godfrey
11-13-2018, 18:11
My film Leicas are 20 to 50 years old and built like a tank. Same with my Rollei TLRs. They will last forever even with regular use. What I don’t understand is why make a solid metal digital M when it’s practical life span is less than 10 years and most people upgrade within 3 or 5? Can digital M Leicas be more affordable if made from a polymer exterior or would the fans not buy it at all? Seems like an obvious place to cut costs? Or maybe offer an alternative model with a more disposable shell?

Why do you think the "practical life span is less than 10 years"? I see no reason why any current Leica M digital camera can't last 15 to 25 years. My 2003 Olympus E-1 DSLR is still going strong, and makes lovely photographs. Heck, even my M-D typ 262 is already almost three years old ... it's a long, long, long way from being worn out or unusable.

The fact is that most any quality digital camera made in the last decade and a half was likely discarded long before it was used up due to the forces of marketing and rising user expectations, not through lack of reliability and durability.

G

Rayt
11-13-2018, 18:45
Why do you think the "practical life span is less than 10 years"? I see no reason why any current Leica M digital camera can't last 15 to 25 years. My 2003 Olympus E-1 DSLR is still going strong, and makes lovely photographs. Heck, even my M-D typ 262 is already almost three years old ... it's a long, long, long way from being worn out or unusable.

The fact is that most any quality digital camera made in the last decade and a half was likely discarded long before it was used up due to the forces of marketing and rising user expectations, not through lack of reliability and durability.

G

In this disposable society I tip my hat to you sir. I am also using an M8.2. However not everyone feel the way you. But then again I am sure companies would prefer their consumer base to keep buying and buying and not having the used market as their biggest competitor.

Bille
11-18-2018, 08:48
APS-C sensor
prices from 3.540 € (body only)

https://pixii.fr/specifications

https://media.giphy.com/media/CoDp6NnSmItoY/giphy.gif

c.poulton
01-01-2019, 04:44
I really liked the concept of the Pixii - unobtrusive and as close to a film camera as you can get, however the cost is unbelievable and completely out of my range. It's a crop sensor as well! I've just checked and I can buy a new Fujifilm X-Pro2 for £1,119 or €1,240 - under half the price!

I'm sorry, I really wanted to like the Pixii but they've killed it with their pricing.

peterm1
01-01-2019, 05:12
Sacre Bleu! It looks like a Hermes hand bag had a love child with a pair of Christian Louboutin shoes, and costs more than a Tiffany necklace. Let's hope it does not smell like cheese.

c.poulton
01-01-2019, 06:22
To really appreciate how Pixii are pricing themselves out of the market, you can get a Leica CL for £2,250 (inc. vat) - now if I had the money, which one would I choose? :rolleyes:

https://www.leicastore-uk.co.uk/products/leica-cl-silver

mod2001
01-01-2019, 06:52
To really appreciate how Pixii are pricing themselves out of the market, you can get a Leica CL for £2,250 (inc. vat) - now if I had the money, which one would I choose? :rolleyes:

https://www.leicastore-uk.co.uk/products/leica-cl-silver

You're comparing apples with oranges, neither the XPro nor the CL are Rangefinders, thats what you mainly pay for because there's no competition on the market, see Leica M or Epson RD1 before. But agree, can't see a market at this price anyway. On the other hand, was my thought too when I heard the price of the CL when you can get a Fuji X-E3 for half the price with nearly identical specs. You never know.


My concern would be to invest so much money with the uncertainty if the company still exists in a few month (guarantee, repairs, software updates and so on). Like the concept though.

Juergen

ptpdprinter
01-01-2019, 07:01
€3,540 for a camera with a 12MP APS-C sensor? Did they buy these sensors as an NOS lot on eBay? Surely no one currently fabricates them.

shawn
01-01-2019, 08:28
€3,540 for a camera with a 12MP APS-C sensor? Did they buy these sensors as an NOS lot on eBay? Surely no one currently fabricates them.

I've seen some speculate that they are using the CMV12000 v2 sensor. It is a current product.

https://ams.com/cmv12000

Single unit price is $2,030.81.

Shawn

splitimageview
01-01-2019, 08:32
It's very very difficult to get component prices down to the levels that the major (Sonylumpuscanikons) manufacturers pay. They simply have huge volumes compared to a startup.

This unfortunately will doom this product.

Huss
01-01-2019, 10:33
How about making an affordable and simple digital Leica M mount camera?

Affordable is relative. Simple is not.

umcelinho
01-03-2019, 13:04
if it cost 10% of what they're going for, it'd feel appealing. but an apsc electronic shutter camera for 3.5k euro, seriously... nope.

umcelinho
01-03-2019, 13:05
APS-C sensor
prices from 3.540 € (body only)

https://pixii.fr/specifications

https://media.giphy.com/media/CoDp6NnSmItoY/giphy.gif

sums it up beautifully

umcelinho
01-03-2019, 13:07
How about making an affordable and simple digital Leica M mount camera?

I just want an R-D1 with a fullframe sensor that has decent high iso performance. just that. it'd be my dream camera.

siracusa
01-04-2019, 08:07
I think it's cool that there's something out there that's a little different, and I wish them every success with it. I don't know anything about the company, but it's nice to see a new company emerge with a camera that is different and niche.

I would certainly like to try one - why not? I'm curious. Would I buy one? Well, I'm covered for cameras so that question doesn't even arise - and if it did the PIXII is out of my price bracket. Introducing a new rangefinder is a nice concept, though.

You know what else? I love the slightly eccentric old Foca rangefinders, and I'm as happy as anything that there's a new camera by a French company out there. Good luck to them for having a go.

markjwyatt
01-04-2019, 08:15
11 Megapixel (4080x2732)? Seems a little low by today's standards (i7 level, but larger sensor). Hard to compete with Fujifilm cameras with that price. I am not sure having software on the phone is an advantage.

agentlossing
01-09-2020, 10:23
Last post was almost exactly a year ago, since then the press/rumor mill dried up entirely and we all forgot about this thing! It frustrated me at the time and I still think about it now and then. How badly must they have screwed up not to have some kind of functional product by now?

Leica mount digital rangefinder: we have how many models of this in existence? And all of them made by Leica? I find it hard to believe there wouldn't be an enthusiastic niche market.

Simple design with no in-camera LCD, but a fast connection to a reliable smartphone app - this is smart! It's worth doing. It's not worth the rumored price, and not with a lousy APS-C sensor, but it's a concept that's worth pursuing.

Still disappointed that no one could make this happen.

johannielscom
01-09-2020, 10:42
Agentlossing, who cares. Loads of bodies out there that take your kenses

Larry Cloetta
01-09-2020, 10:51
It's not worth the rumored price, and not with a lousy APS-C sensor, but it's a concept that's worth pursuing.

Still disappointed that no one could make this happen.

Economics has laws. Ignore them at your own risk.

The money quotes here are “It's not worth the rumored price” and “no one could make this happen”, both true.

Economies of scale. Leica’s existing paid for physical and experience infrastructure vs. those who lack a manufacturing facility, experience, and equipped only with an idea. Anybody can have an idea. Talk is cheap, as has been noted elsewhere.
The rumored price, which might have been enough for a shoestring company to produce them for and remain in the black, was more than people would be willing to pay in numbers sufficient for the company to remain in the black.
They floated the idea, and woke up after evaluating the response. Thus, dead. 💀

And speaking of sketchy ideas for expensive things that not enough people are clamoring for, where’s that Zeiss ZX1?

DC1030
01-09-2020, 10:56
Their website says 12 MP APS-C, look at Technical Specifications...

ranger9
01-09-2020, 11:55
Leica mount digital rangefinder: we have how many models of this in existence? And all of them made by Leica? I find it hard to believe there wouldn't be an enthusiastic niche market...
Still disappointed that no one could make this happen.

You could call this the “Epson R-D1 Effect.” The R-D1 was a very good camera for its day (I still use mine occasionally) and its specs were competitive for the period. It had the backing of a major, well-known manufacturer and actually beat Leica to the marketplace. Its downfall: high price relative to DSLRs (although lower than Leica), minor but very heavily publicized rangefinder calibration problems with the first few hundred cameras, but most of all... “It's not a Leica!”

In other words, the affluent rangefinder fans who made up its natural target market preferred to wait a little longer and could afford to pay a few thousand dollars more for a Leica-branded solution. Every sensible manufacturer learned that lesson, so nobody has put a foot in that bear trap again.

aizan
01-09-2020, 13:19
The Leica market has gotten noticeably younger since the days of the Epson R-D1. If Fuji made a full frame M-mount rangefinder for $3000, it would sell like crazy.

agentlossing
01-09-2020, 14:23
Economics has laws. Ignore them at your own risk.

The money quotes here are “It's not worth the rumored price” and “no one could make this happen”, both true.

Economies of scale. Leica’s existing paid for physical and experience infrastructure vs. those who lack a manufacturing facility, experience, and equipped only with an idea. Anybody can have an idea. Talk is cheap, as has been noted elsewhere.
The rumored price, which might have been enough for a shoestring company to produce them for and remain in the black, was more than people would be willing to pay in numbers sufficient for the company to remain in the black.
They floated the idea, and woke up after evaluating the response. Thus, dead. 💀

And speaking of sketchy ideas for expensive things that not enough people are clamoring for, where’s that Zeiss ZX1?
Up until a few years ago, Cosina was able to sell Voigtlander bodies with rangefinders for $1000, and to be quite honest, you could get literally everything else needed to make a good digital rangefinder from off the shelf. Yeah, full frame sensors are a bit more expensive than the example I'm about to make, but look at how cheaply the Yi (Young Innovators) M1 micro four thirds camera was made and sold out of China, with actually a very good Sony sensor that is only put in the higher-tier cameras by Olympus and Panasonic. I know the kit was under $500 out of the gate, and frequently sold for far less.

agentlossing
01-09-2020, 14:32
I suspect a lot of the cost and delay leading to the no-show was due to the global shutter, but who was asking for that on a rangefinder, anyway???

Ko.Fe.
01-09-2020, 14:40
The Leica market has gotten noticeably younger since the days of the Epson R-D1. If Fuji made a full frame M-mount rangefinder for $3000, it would sell like crazy.

Young ones have three thousands to waste? Where?
Young one at my work purchased used Canon 6D yesterday as travel camera.
Another young one is just like me ten years ago, 5d mk something and bunch of L.

aizan
01-09-2020, 14:48
At public events in Los Angeles (marches/protests, art and photography events and openings, waiting for a table at a popular restaurant), I almost always see someone under thirty with a full frame digital Leica.

Ko.Fe.
01-09-2020, 15:21
We are at different social levels. :) I'm not in favorites restaurants and cozy protests.
I just talk, see people at work, on streets and at popular camera store. With cameras.
Few film Leicas and plenty of film cameras of low price and DSLRs.
But it is Torono. They say in Tokio every fashion teenage girl has M6....
Yet, been in Manhattan, Boston, Philadelifia, Chicago in previos couple years, I haven't seen young ones with 3k$ cameras. But never been in cozy protests and super super restaurants.
Just in Cheese Factories. I was only one with Leicas.
I guess this is where tough crowd is with expensive gear. Cozy protests for social justice and then dining out....

Larry Cloetta
01-09-2020, 15:35
Up until a few years ago, Cosina was able to sell Voigtlander bodies with rangefinders for $1000, and to be quite honest, you could get literally everything else needed to make a good digital rangefinder from off the shelf. Yeah, full frame sensors are a bit more expensive than the example I'm about to make, but look at how cheaply the Yi (Young Innovators) M1 micro four thirds camera was made and sold out of China, with actually a very good Sony sensor that is only put in the higher-tier cameras by Olympus and Panasonic. I know the kit was under $500 out of the gate, and frequently sold for far less.

My point was that if there was money just sitting there waiting to be made by making this camera, or something like it, someone would make it. Over the long haul, nobody leaves available money on the ground. It’s not one of those ideas that that no one has had. That’s not the reason it doesn’t happen. It doesn’t happen because once all the market and manufacturing variables are analyzed and understood, those with the idea, no matter how appealing the idea might be to outsiders, realize it’s not viable.

aizan
01-09-2020, 17:12
We are at different social levels. :) I'm not in favorites restaurants and cozy protests.
I just talk, see people at work, on streets and at popular camera store. With cameras.
Few film Leicas and plenty of film cameras of low price and DSLRs.
But it is Torono. They say in Tokio every fashion teenage girl has M6....
Yet, been in Manhattan, Boston, Philadelifia, Chicago in previos couple years, I haven't seen young ones with 3k$ cameras. But never been in cozy protests and super super restaurants.
Just in Cheese Factories. I was only one with Leicas.
I guess this is where tough crowd is with expensive gear. Cozy protests for social justice and then dining out....

And this is why I always get annoyed when people say things like "Leicas were always expensive" (when they demonstrably were not AS expensive as they are now). Leica is now a gentrified brand. Millenials who buy a digital Leica either 1) can't "comfortably" afford it but got one anyway because it's a status symbol and an investment in your creativity (and it's the only "real" option available), or 2) can easily afford one...probably along with higher education, their loft, and new luxury car because of their parents.

I've only gone to NYC on your list, and I actually did see a young guy with a digital Leica at Dia:Beacon.

Huss
01-09-2020, 19:06
If it is APS-anything and the price is similar to a used M240 then...

It is about $3800 (EUR to $ conversion from their website) and offers 12-14mb sensor.
Used M240 with FF 24mb sensor is about $2500. And it is a Leica which sounds much more impressive than Pixii.

Huss
01-09-2020, 19:08
Young ones have three thousands to waste? Where?


Los Angeles
San Francisco
San Diego
Sacramento
Santa Barbara
New York City
Chicago
Boston
Miami
Austin
Dallas
etc etc

p.s why is it "to waste"? Don't you have a digital M? Was that a waste?

Ko.Fe.
01-10-2020, 04:00
And this is why I always get annoyed when people say things like "Leicas were always expensive" (when they demonstrably were not AS expensive as they are now). Leica is now a gentrified brand. Millenials who buy a digital Leica either 1) can't "comfortably" afford it but got one anyway because it's a status symbol and an investment in your creativity (and it's the only "real" option available), or 2) can easily afford one...probably along with higher education, their loft, and new luxury car because of their parents.

I've only gone to NYC on your list, and I actually did see a young guy with a digital Leica at Dia:Beacon.

The only young, millennials I have seen with Leica in thee years were two.
One with M6 walking in Central Park, Manhattan in 2017 and one by st.Laurence market in Toronto, 2019. This one was pulling it out from statement camera bag like his kidney he is about to sell on black market.
The rest of Leica users I have seen on the streets in major American cities in three years are like me. I live now in mortgage free home and probably could afford 3k$ camera on CC purchase, well, I just have enough gear to sell :)

Huss, I have M-E as gift in 2016. Maybe all of your Leica crowds you and only have seen are like me and m-e. :)

jsrockit
01-10-2020, 05:30
I lived in NYC for many years and there are certainly young people with expensive Leicas. If they can afford to live in NYC, they have a good job. If they don’t have a good job, they have rich parents. People come from all over to live in NYC and it takes $ to do it. Some of these young people even came to our RFF meetups. Think about it this way.... you don’t need a car in nyc so you can buy a camera instead. These young people also don’t have kids or a spouse... it is the perfect time to splurge.

benlees
01-10-2020, 07:45
It is about $3800 (EUR to $ conversion from their website) and offers 12-14mb sensor.
Used M240 with FF 24mb sensor is about $2500. And it is a Leica which sounds much more impressive than Pixii.

For sure. That the Leica was the obvious choice was my point. I'm all for companies offering alternatives... but they have to be good. And they should understand their market.

Archiver
04-01-2020, 20:19
Either I've not seen this thread before, or I have, and somehow blotted it from my mind. The Konost is the only other DRF that I've read about in the planning stages. The Pixii looks like a good idea, being able to charge via USB and transfer its images to a USB stick, not to mention using a commonly available battery.

So this is an aps-c sensor, but the megapixel count is not stated. This suggests that it might be either a 20mp or 24mp sensor, based on a guess by availability and cost.

With only 8GB internal memory, you'd be filling it up pretty fast, and using USB drives rather frequently if you're on the go. I don't mind the idea, but I'm not sold on how this is more desirable or usable than a camera with screen. I feel the same way about the screenless Leicas, too. Sure, film cameras don't have screens, but just as we've largely moved beyond film, we've moved beyond not having an integrated screen.

I really like the idea of this, as an aps-c M mount rangefinder that is as small and thin as a film camera, but I'm leery of spending 3500+ euros for a first generation camera with limited functionality.

CameraQuest
06-10-2020, 12:19
this is an older Pixii thread

loranger
11-18-2020, 02:30
The first coverage of the pixii on a french photo magazine https://www.reponsesphoto.fr/actualites/science-vie-photo-n-10-special-guide-d-achat-36543
There is a long article about the company and the adventure of building a new camera and a hands on review.

loranger
11-18-2020, 03:15
Since most of the people here won't be able to get the magazine and to read french, here are some of the key facts related in the article:


The technical adventure started in 2014 with the help of two engineers students working on a prototype, they were really starting from scratch.



First the company has been in contact with Cosina / Voigtlander for the rangefinder and with Rollei for the viewfinder, unfortunatly Rollei was ceasing activity and Cosina was not able anymore to provide ranfinder parts. Therefore they decided to build their own rangefinder, the Minolta CLE was their reference.



The shutter has been a big issue as well, the project of making one by themself from scratch was too difficult so they decided to use the solution of a global shutter instead.



At the end of 2018 the camera is officialy released and ready to be sold but a financing issue stops them. David Barth admits that the camera at that time was ready but "not very good" !



In 2019, a former VP of GoPRO, Fabrice Barbier joined the team and helped solving all the remaing technical issues, at the same time the company has been able to get a new 700 000 euros financement and to restart the production.



The design of the camera was inspired by Apple products, the Leica CL and a super8 movie camera Braun Nizo S800.



The team is now working on a upgrade based on a best performing APS-C sensor, they will be able to propose this upgrade to the buyers of the first version.