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bayernfan
10-16-2018, 08:48
finally....

note:
1. ISO on top (same as M10), exposure comp. (inner dial on back)
2. ON/OFF/WIFI (dial surrounding exposure comp dial)


https://leicarumors.com/2018/10/16/pictures-of-the-leica-m10-d-camera-leaked-it-has-an-advance-lever.aspx/

https://leicarumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Leica-M10-D-camera2.jpg

https://leicarumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Leica-M10-D-camera1.jpg

ptpdprinter
10-16-2018, 08:54
Either it is a fake image or Leica has gone off the deep end.

capitalK
10-16-2018, 08:56
"The first leaked pictures of the Leica M10-D camera show that the new M model without LCD screen will have an advance lever, but it is not clear what it will be used for:"

I'm hoping it will be to advance/cock the shutter (like the R-D1).

bayernfan
10-16-2018, 09:00
Either it is a fake image or Leica has gone off the deep end.

i like the deep end. :D

B-9
10-16-2018, 09:04
I love it,

Saves on battery life!

Of course I could never afford one!

Takkun
10-16-2018, 09:05
When I started in photography, or even just a couple years ago, I never would have imagined that Leica would be making BW-only and digital cameras without screens, while Fuji was dropping most of their namesake products.

It's a crazy world, indeed.

Doesn't make me want one any less. Only wish they'd tap Seiko for those beautiful R-D1 indicator dials.

Calzone
10-16-2018, 09:12
Either it is a fake image or Leica has gone off the deep end.

PTP,

A basic simple camera: what a concept!

Way back when there were rumors about a Monochrom M-body a poster here on RFF called it "stupid." LOL.

I would be interested in a M10-D in Monochrome.

Cal

lcpr
10-16-2018, 09:14
I wonder if that lever is actually mechanically linked or just a longer way to initiate the motorwind. Either way, it's very cool and a nice update for the M-D series.

martinkirchner
10-16-2018, 09:31
Looks like a fake. Anyway, would buy it :-D.
Thats what my dreamcamera actually should look like. a digital filmcamera.
Sadly cant afford it, have to go with my m9.

Timmyjoe
10-16-2018, 09:45
That is very cool. It would also have one of the items I love most about my M3, M4, M6TTL, quiet shooting with the ability to re-cock the shutter separate from making the image. And hopefully quietly by advancing the lever slowly.

Best,
-Tim

Huss
10-16-2018, 10:07
Wonder what the shutter would sound like?
If this is real, it is so weird and yet so cool.

Also - this is what the Nikon DF should have been, in an SLR version of course.

Archlich
10-16-2018, 10:07
This one is genuinely practical. The first time an exposure compensation dial being available on a digital M - hope it's a tad easier to turn than the one on the M7.

If they made it lighter I'm in. They better not, so that I could have an excuse...

Huss
10-16-2018, 10:13
This one is genuinely practical. The first time an exposure compensation dial being available on a digital M - hope it's a tad easier to turn than the one on the M7.

If they made it lighter I'm in. They better not, so that I could have an excuse...

The one on my M7 is beyond awful. Cheap chintzy peace of junk, that turns whether or not u push in that little release button.

analoged
10-16-2018, 10:15
Finally Leica has caught up with Epson...

Godfrey
10-16-2018, 10:19
Looks fake to me.

Be that as it may, I prefer the M-D ISO setting dial rather than an EV compensation dial/on-off-self timer control in that location. Switched around ... ISO on the back, EV comp on the top-left ... the two controls would make more sense. And then what's the thumbwheel for, since all it does on the M-D is adjust the EV compensation? (That's one way I know it's a faked image... :))

A manual wind lever is without doubt fake and is nearly ridiculous to me. When I had the R-D1, that was by far and away the clumsiest and dumbest feature I tried to put up with. I couldn't ... I returned the camera after a week. I would not buy a digital Leica with that "feature".

Adding the Live View capability to the M10-D would be nice, I would use that if it were there, but it means you need a bunch more complexity in the camera to support it. It kind of breaks the "essential simplicity" which is the point of the M-D in the first place. So I'm ambivalent about that detail.

G

Huss
10-16-2018, 10:27
Looks fake to me.
.. And then what's the thumbwheel for, since all it does on the M-D is adjust the EV compensation? (That's one way I know it's a faked image... :))


Isn't the thumb wheel also used to adjust settings in camera via the VF? eg formatting of the card, battery condition, exposures left etc?

Huss
10-16-2018, 10:29
Where it does seem fake to me is the wireless switch. Why on a camera like this? That is meant to be a 'film' camera? So you can preview ur snaps on a phone?

ptpdprinter
10-16-2018, 10:31
Where it does seem fake to me is the wireless switch. Why on a camera like this? That is meant to be a 'film' camera? So you can preview ur snaps on a phone?
Enabling the FOTOS app on this camera seems beside the point. If you want to preview your photos, just get the regular M10 instead of juggling the camera with your phone.

Fraser
10-16-2018, 10:37
Is they viewfinder not turned the wrong way round looks like it only shoots uprights?

Archlich
10-16-2018, 10:42
Looks fake to me.

Be that as it may, I prefer the M-D ISO setting dial rather than an EV compensation dial/on-off-self timer control in that location. Switched around ... ISO on the back, EV comp on the top-left ... the two controls would make more sense. And then what's the thumbwheel for, since all it does on the M-D is adjust the EV compensation? (That's one way I know it's a faked image... :))

A manual wind lever is without doubt fake and is nearly ridiculous to me. When I had the R-D1, that was by far and away the clumsiest and dumbest feature I tried to put up with. I couldn't ... I returned the camera after a week. I would not buy a digital Leica with that "feature".

Adding the Live View capability to the M10-D would be nice, I would use that if it were there, but it means you need a bunch more complexity in the camera to support it. It kind of breaks the "essential simplicity" which is the point of the M-D in the first place. So I'm ambivalent about that detail.

G

Guess what, you can even adjust the date setting on the M-D 262. With the thumb wheel.

I imagine it will be essential for the implementation of auto ISO setting.

aizan
10-16-2018, 11:33
epson r-d1 lovers rejoice!

not happy about the ev comp, though. it’s like the one on the m7, and that’s not so ergonomically placed. if i were the designer, i would have made it like on the minolta cle/zeiss ikon.

ckuwajima
10-16-2018, 11:47
It will be very nice if EVF is supported as shown. Not for reviewing photos, but to use R lenses without having to guess/scale focus.

bayernfan
10-16-2018, 11:59
Enabling the FOTOS app on this camera seems beside the point. If you want to preview your photos, just get the regular M10 instead of juggling the camera with your phone.

it does seem a bit unnecessary for such a pared down camera. perhaps even against the spirit of such a design.

i'm wondering if it would allow you to make your smartphone screen the "live view" screen when the unusual circumstance calls for it. honestly, that doesn't sound like the worst idea i've ever heard.

Guess what, you can even adjust the date setting on the M-D 262. With the thumb wheel.

I imagine it will be essential for the implementation of auto ISO setting.

it be nice if they would permit total deactivation of either dial (the exp comp on back or the thumb wheel) to avoid accidental settings.

CameraQuest
10-16-2018, 11:59
Its not retro enough.

I'm waiting for the pre-brassed chrome Lenny Kravitz M-10 LK Special Edition
That does not take batteries or cards.

Made in Stalingrad of course.

Veggies
10-16-2018, 13:20
looks good

sepiareverb
10-16-2018, 13:55
Its not retro enough.

I'm waiting for the pre-brassed chrome Lenny Kravitz M-10 LK Special Edition
That does not take batteries or cards.

Made in Stalingrad of course.

Twenty five winds to start the day, then a double stroke before each shot. Another twenty five winds to get the wifi up. Holds 37 files, but sometimes one is only a partial frame.

NY_Dan
10-16-2018, 14:04
The advance lever send the photo to your Instagram -- it uses your cellphone as a Wifi hot spot. You can set it up so you can't take another photo until the first one receives a like. Also doubles as a bottle opener -- but only works on German beers. I have all this on good authority.

Huss
10-16-2018, 14:05
How much will this cost?

I'm saying... $10,000.

Keith
10-16-2018, 14:21
If this isn't a pipe dream that lever would really need to be for actually cocking the shutter otherwise it's a pointless gimmick. I hope this camera is real but you have to wonder at the re-engineering required to create it ... but if they have it's another example of Leica's ability to do the unpredictable. It could be expensive though!

Huss
10-16-2018, 14:47
If this isn't a pipe dream that lever would really need to be for actually cocking the shutter otherwise it's a pointless gimmick. I hope this camera is real but you have to wonder at the re-engineering required to create it ... but if they have it's another example of Leica's ability to do the unpredictable. It could be expensive though!

C'mon Keith, name your price!

Keith
10-16-2018, 15:13
C'mon Keith, name your price!

Lol ... whatever it is if it happens it will be too much for me.

And how long after they release this will they offer a version that doesn't have an electronic sensor in it ... but some other weird type of light sensing material? :angel:

Meanwhile I have an RD1. :)

jonmanjiro
10-16-2018, 16:00
https://www.noki5hita-camera.com/2018/10/m10-d.html
(https://www.noki****a-camera.com/2018/10/m10-d.html)
海外のソースからライカM10-Dの背面と上面の画像を提供して貰いました。 > We got front and rear pictures of the Leica M10-D from an "overseas source".

But the pictures have noki5hita's watermark anyway... the smell of fishy fishy fishy fish is strong with this one��

Fjäll
10-16-2018, 17:05
In a few years we will have a camera that lacks an LCD, has an advance lever, doesn't require batteries and has presets in little canisters. Oh wait..

Godfrey
10-16-2018, 17:11
The rh, top plate button on the M-D tells you how many exposures you have left and the current battery state.

You cannot format the card in the M-D camera at all, or delete photos.

You can use the thumb wheel to set the EV compensation when shooting. And also to set the date and time (the only configuration settings on the M-D).

If you have the ISO knob AND an EV compensation knob AND a button like I see on this fake M10-D image, those could be used to set date and time. There's really little need for yet another control just to set the date and time.

I love the M-D typ 262, it's my favorite of all the M cameras—film or digital—I've had for the past 50 years. I wouldn't want an M10-D with any more features than the M-D has, at all. The only things I'd like to see in the M10-D aside from what the M-D has would be the improved view finder and sensor. Everything else is unnecessary and frivolous, not in keeping with what the M-D is supposed to be.

G

Archiver
10-16-2018, 17:34
Noki5hita is usually pretty reliable with its rumours. It's not what I'm looking for, but it will certainly be an interesting camera. There's any number of shooters who enjoy using a shutter cock/film wind lever, although the subset of those who can afford a Leica of this nature would be quite small.

benlees
10-16-2018, 18:09
Can't wait for the "I would put an M4 lever on it though"

bayernfan
10-16-2018, 18:25
If you have the ISO knob AND an EV compensation knob AND a button like I see on this fake M10-D image, those could be used to set date and time. There's really little need for yet another control just to set the date and time.


announcement is one week away (apparently). would be a strange time for a fake image to surface if the real deal is a week away.

https://leicarumors.com/2018/10/16/the-leica-m10-d-camera-will-be-announced-on-october-23rd.aspx/

i agree with you and others that this just doesn't seem like the next logical evolution of the M-D.

farlymac
10-16-2018, 20:23
Quite a few years ago when the topic of converting a film camera to digital came up (a la today's "I'm Back" project), I tinkered with the thought of using the advance lever by connecting it to a piezoelectric generator and capacitor to power the imaging device for each shot, in replacement of the take-up spool. I have no idea what it's doing on an M10-D.


PF

Mr_Flibble
10-16-2018, 22:44
Fake or not,

It would definitely bring back some of those easy-access ergonomics of my beloved Epson R-D1.
My M-E is nice and all, but I don't like having to go open up the back of the halfcase to access the menu to change the ISO.

The cocking lever is just gravy! :)

DavidKKHansen
10-16-2018, 22:47
But the pictures have noki5hita's watermark anyway... the smell of fishy fishy fishy fish is strong with this one😏

Isn't it common to watermark images with online leak-news? The first website to get the leaked information puts their own watermark on it, to brand themselves as being exclusive with the leaked images?

I've seen other sites do it, for example with regards to Apple products.

maddoc
10-16-2018, 23:06
I like the orientation of the VF baffle, upright. The first time I see that orientation in a Leica VF, even the half-frame M4-P did have a horizontal oriented VF baffle.

aizan
10-16-2018, 23:13
this question might be obvious:

if the thumb grip/rear dial was added to replace the grippiness that was once supplied by the film advance lever, why is it still there now that the lever has been put back on?

Doug
10-17-2018, 02:20
On my M2 the film advance lever moves easily and smoothly and provides no perceptible "grippiness" for holding. It just moves too easily for that, and so I've liked and preferred a front grip for a secure hold. The M-D rear dial bump is reminiscent of a Thumbie but on a very minor scale so I again use a front grip there. If the M10-D is real, I'll assume the wind lever functions to cock the shutter as on the Epson... nice retro touch!

DavidKKHansen
10-17-2018, 10:02
this question might be obvious:

if the thumb grip/rear dial was added to replace the grippiness that was once supplied by the film advance lever, why is it still there now that the lever has been put back on?

The thumb dial had a function on the first M-D, so I reckon it'll have a similar function on the M10-D as well.

Also, I'm guessing from a production tooling point of view, maybe it's just easier to keep the overall shape of the camera identical to the regular M10.

-----

I'm puzzled as to why the on/off switch has been moved from the index finger to the back of the camera. Ergonomically it makes more sense to have the on/off switch by the index finger?

bhop73
10-17-2018, 11:40
On my M2 the film advance lever moves easily and smoothly and provides no perceptible "grippiness" for holding. It just moves too easily for that, and so I've liked and preferred a front grip for a secure hold. The M-D rear dial bump is reminiscent of a Thumbie but on a very minor scale so I again use a front grip there. If the M10-D is real, I'll assume the wind lever functions to cock the shutter as on the Epson... nice retro touch!

Not sure how you're holding it, but all of my film cameras with an advance lever gives an bit of extra grip with the lever pulled out. It's smooth, sure, but the grippiness comes from your thumb being 'hooked' around it.

PRJ
10-17-2018, 11:41
That thumb wind is like buying a ferrari and hitching it to a horse.

coelacanth
10-17-2018, 12:10
In the 2nd pic with EVF, the winding lever is blocked by the EVF. If this image is real, I wonder what the lever is for.

Would be interesting if using lever to re-cock the mechanical shutter resulting in even quieter shutter release.

Timmyjoe
10-17-2018, 12:54
Not sure how you're holding it, but all of my film cameras with an advance lever gives an bit of extra grip with the lever pulled out. It's smooth, sure, but the grippiness comes from your thumb being 'hooked' around it.

Yeah, that's how all my advance lever film cameras work. I like the extra grip of the pulled out lever against my thumb.

Not sure, if the whole point of this camera is to be somewhat "retro", why they'd throw an EVF on it, but I agree, it certainly looks like it would block the tip of the advance lever.

Best,
-Tim

jsrockit
10-17-2018, 12:57
When I started in photography, or even just a couple years ago, I never would have imagined that Leica would be making BW-only and digital cameras without screens, while Fuji was dropping most of their namesake products.


What do you mean in regards to Fuji?

Huss
10-17-2018, 13:17
That thumb wind is like buying a ferrari and hitching it to a horse.

More like buying a Ferrari with a manual transmission.

Those were the days..
At least Porsche still offers that option. And this Leica is German, like Porsche..

a.noctilux
10-17-2018, 13:36
I like the orientation of the VF baffle, upright. The first time I see that orientation in a Leica VF, even the half-frame M4-P did have a horizontal oriented VF baffle.
...

Is they viewfinder not turned the wrong way round looks like it only shoots uprights?

Just had a look at my M10 VF in front of white surface, it looks like that on the picture show.

Odd but real :p.

Emile de Leon
10-17-2018, 14:38
Interesting...!

analoged
10-17-2018, 14:43
When I started in photography, or even just a couple years ago, I never would have imagined that Leica would be making BW-only and digital cameras without screens, while Fuji was dropping most of their namesake products.

What do you mean in regards to Fuji?

I'm assuming he's talking about Fuji discontinuing their film products.

ptpdprinter
10-17-2018, 14:44
I'm assuming he's talking about Fuji discontinuing their film products.
My digital cameras say Fujifilm on them for some reason. Well, before I taped over the logos.

iaeaix
10-17-2018, 18:37
If they want to pick up that idea from Epson R-D1, why not earlier?
Come on, Leica.

peterm1
10-17-2018, 22:45
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9FfI4-oRDo

Archlich
10-18-2018, 02:55
If they want to pick up that idea from Epson R-D1, why not earlier?
Come on, Leica.

Still better than never?

Mr_Flibble
10-18-2018, 03:01
If they want to pick up that idea from Epson R-D1, why not earlier?
Come on, Leica.

Patents Perhaps?

Epson only dropped service for the R-D1 and R-D1s a year or so ago, didn't they?

robert blu
10-18-2018, 03:30
Not sure if this is real or "fake" but it doesn't matter! Soon or later a new version, Monochrome or D of the M10 will arrive on the market.
Maybe I'll like it but...unfortunately no budget allocated for a new expensive camera !

robert
PS: anyway I'm among the ones who say good to have different new versions so long they are not "only cosmetic" :)

FujiLove
10-18-2018, 03:32
FFS. Just shoot some film damnit.

Bobfrance
10-18-2018, 05:51
In other news, the next generation of electric cars are going to be fitted with a decorative cranking handle on the front so nostalgic types can turn it and wistfully imagine they're toad of toad hall...

mcfingon
10-18-2018, 06:05
Not sure if this is real or "fake" but it doesn't matter! Soon or later a new version, Monochrome or D of the M10 will arrive on the market.
Maybe I'll like it but...unfortunately no budget allocated for a new expensive camera !

robert
PS: anyway I'm among the ones who say good to have different new versions so long they are not "only cosmetic" :)

I'm with you robert on thinking it's a good thing that Leica are bringing out variations on the theme. I believe it is for real and I know even more certainly that I really don't have the money for it. You should be able to shoot a lot more shots on a battery charge if there's no LCD and you are providing the energy for the shutter cocking. An environmentalist's M10?
John Mc

Michael Markey
10-18-2018, 06:16
FFS. Just shoot some film damnit.

Well yes ...

Bobfrance
10-18-2018, 06:57
I'm with you robert on thinking it's a good thing that Leica are bringing out variations on the theme. I believe it is for real and I know even more certainly that I really don't have the money for it. You should be able to shoot a lot more shots on a battery charge if there's no LCD and you are providing the energy for the shutter cocking. An environmentalist's M10?
John Mc

Seems unlikely to make much difference. My Nikon F80 (autofocus, film SLR with electronic shutter) will run for months on a couple of AA batteries, so a shutter can't be that much of a drain.

And and LCD doesn't need to be turned on anyway.

willie_901
10-18-2018, 07:23
I'm assuming he's talking about Fuji discontinuing their film products.

Yeah.

Why didn't FUJIFILM behave as KODAK behaved? What were they thinking?

Huss
10-18-2018, 11:22
FFS. Just shoot some film damnit.

This is for people who want the closest thing to a film camera, but with a digital sensor.

But I'm with you, I shoot film.

Dante_Stella
10-18-2018, 14:06
I'm with you robert on thinking it's a good thing that Leica are bringing out variations on the theme. I believe it is for real and I know even more certainly that I really don't have the money for it. You should be able to shoot a lot more shots on a battery charge if there's no LCD and you are providing the energy for the shutter cocking. An environmentalist's M10?
John Mc

Shutter cocking is not eating much if any battery power - old school motorized cameras like the Hexar RF can run 140 rolls on a two tiny CR2s, which is thousands of pictures - and that is cocking a shutter and winding/rewinding film. On a digital, the power draw is the processing.

Dante

ptpdprinter
10-18-2018, 14:11
Shutter cocking is not eating much if any battery power - old school motorized cameras like the Hexar RF can run 140 rolls on a two tiny CR2s, which is thousands of pictures - and that is cocking a shutter and winding/rewinding film. On a digital, the power draw is the processing.
I am really hoping that it is a fake photo.

RichC
10-18-2018, 14:20
In other news, the next generation of electric cars are going to be fitted with a decorative cranking handle on the front so nostalgic types can turn it and wistfully imagine they're toad of toad hall...
Ha! :D
If true, an utterly pointless folly for folk with too much money...

Phil_F_NM
10-18-2018, 14:28
For the modest sum of only $3000 USD, I will happily provide your digital Leica with a lever that you can hook your thumb around. I can even turn it into the on/off switch like a lot of older film bodies for an extra $2000.

I also know where to find the best vegan "cheesesteak" in Philly, seeing as this is the very same analogy.

I'd like to see Leica make a dedicated 35mm film scanner that can beat the pants off of anything out there. They won't and I wouldn't buy it if they did, but it would show some interest in keeping the film market alive.

Phil Forrest

Rayt
10-18-2018, 17:56
Well I don’t care why other people buy what they buy. The market will decide whether this was ill conceived or not. I personally like features that are helpful for picture taking. I’ll admit nothing is absolutely essential including the RF and the meter but they are nice to have around.

Rob-F
10-18-2018, 18:55
"The first leaked pictures of the Leica M10-D camera show that the new M model without LCD screen will have an advance lever, but it is not clear what it will be used for:"

I'm hoping it will be to advance/cock the shutter (like the R-D1).

It could be to operate a dynamo that generates electricity to charge a rechargeable battery, like the crank on my Midland emergency weather radio. (Probably not.) :)

I like the lever advance. I'd rather have it than the loud "Glock-ZZZTT" of my M9. But I expect an LCD screen on a digital. Well, if they ever make a digital Minox in the shape of the film ones (what was the model number--Minox B, I think) there would be no place for a screen, and that would be OK. But a Leica should have a screen. It's nice to see what you are doing.

Rob-F
10-18-2018, 19:02
I like the orientation of the VF baffle, upright. The first time I see that orientation in a Leica VF, even the half-frame M4-P did have a horizontal oriented VF baffle.

Half-frame M4-P? I wasn't aware there was one. I recall there was a half-frame Barnack.

Fjäll
10-18-2018, 19:49
Half-frame M4-P? I wasn't aware there was one. I recall there was a half-frame Barnack.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-NqW8IOfBBa0/ToTcZ0I9tFI/AAAAAAAAABo/-diorIHMEg8/s1600/IMG_8354.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Bv_9ElSSQz8/ToTcaBdT6YI/AAAAAAAAABw/tqOxKT186rg/s1600/IMG_8359.jpg

Rob-F
10-18-2018, 20:00
Wow, thanks for that. I've never even heard it mentioned before!

aizan
10-18-2018, 21:00
I also know where to find the best vegan "cheesesteak" in Philly, seeing as this is the very same analogy.

would that be blackbird pizzeria or wiz kid? :D

Huss
10-18-2018, 21:17
I am really hoping that it is a fake photo.

Why? They are still making the other cameras.

Don't like, don't buy. If they have found a market - and if this thing is real I guarantee they will - good for them. They are a business.

I still wish that they would care to put money into their service dept which is a complete joke. That is what is preventing me from buying another new Leica.

Oscuro
10-18-2018, 21:37
Enabling the FOTOS app on this camera seems beside the point. If you want to preview your photos, just get the regular M10 instead of juggling the camera with your phone.

Darlings,
I am a working journo-woman and I using my phone as the light table. I shoot Fuji X100F and Nikon D3. I before took laptop computer, then iPad, and now just Fuji, Nikon, and iPhone plus with 256gb memory.

So liberating! Shoot, transfer, edit, caption, and email to editorial, right from the front of the bearded fool's press conference!

Ciao from Roma!

stompyq
10-19-2018, 07:34
Darlings,
I am a working journo-woman and I using my phone as the light table. I shoot Fuji X100F and Nikon D3. I before took laptop computer, then iPad, and now just Fuji, Nikon, and iPhone plus with 256gb memory.

So liberating! Shoot, transfer, edit, caption, and email to editorial, right from the front of the bearded fool's press conference!

Ciao from Roma!

How do you transfer D3 files to the iphone. Only the X100F has wifi (and its not great)

Phil_F_NM
10-19-2018, 07:43
would that be blackbird pizzeria or wiz kid? :D

Govinda's Vegetarian, on the SW corner of South and Broad. I used to eat food from there all the time when I worked down the street at Via Bicycle. After that is the Royal Tavern.
Granted, I'm not vegan, nor vegetarian. We don't cook much meat at home though so we call ourselves defacto vegetarians.

Anyway, the analogy still stands. If you want to eat something that tastes like meat and is called some meat dish name (the stuff in a cheesteak was possibly meat at one time,) then eat meat. If you want to shoot a camera that looks like a film camera and acts like a film camera, down to the winder lever and controls and gives you images that look like film, then shoot film. It's a lot cheaper than chasing the film look with digital, especially when talking about Leica.

Phil Forrest

Phil_F_NM
10-19-2018, 07:48
How do you transfer D3 files to the iphone. Only the X100F has wifi (and its not great)

You have to have one of those add-on Nikon wireless kludge adapters that send out images via smoke signals. I swear, if you were shooting in Brooklyn and had to get 20 images to an editor in Manhattan, it's quicker to take the Q or F train back to the office than to use the wifi adapters. Then again, maybe they got faster but are they backwards compatible with full speed using a D3?

Phil Forrest

Symeon
10-19-2018, 10:05
Not a fake. The absence of an LCD and the advance lever (which turns on/off the camera) are Leica's attempt to recreate an old film Leica for the purist photographer who chooses digital. As usual let's wait for the shocking price.

Godfrey
10-19-2018, 11:56
All I can say is “Look how accurate all these rumors were when they were calling the new CM the bees’ knees.”

G

splitimageview
10-19-2018, 12:48
I still wish that they would care to put money into their service dept which is a complete joke. That is what is preventing me from buying another new Leica.

Yes. I have bought two new digital Leicas, but never again...after the last experience.

Michael Markey
10-19-2018, 12:54
I still wish that they would care to put money into their service dept which is a complete joke. That is what is preventing me from buying another new Leica.


Yes … short sighted of them not to do so.
I`ve followed the saga over the years sufficiently to convince me never to buy one .

bayernfan
10-19-2018, 19:51
https://leicarumors.com/2018/10/19/more-pictures-of-the-leica-m10-d-camera.aspx/

looks to be the real deal.

Oscuro
10-19-2018, 22:54
You have to have one of those add-on Nikon wireless kludge adapters that send out images via smoke signals. I swear, if you were shooting in Brooklyn and had to get 20 images to an editor in Manhattan, it's quicker to take the Q or F train back to the office than to use the wifi adapters. Then again, maybe they got faster but are they backwards compatible with full speed using a D3?

Phil Forrest

Darling Phil,
No no no, Caro. The Nikon dongle is useless. Simply useless. Use the Apple dongle and transfer using the USB cable! Very fast!!
Ciao bello
Mme. O

Oscuro
10-19-2018, 23:00
How do you transfer D3 files to the iphone. Only the X100F has wifi (and its not great)

Darling,
I used WiFi CF cards for a while but too slow. So now I and my husband we use Apple camera connect dongle and USB cable to D3. Yes it is wire but very fast!
Ciao,
Mme. O

Oscuro
10-19-2018, 23:02
Also for the Fuji use the Apple SD card dongle. Very fast.
Kisses to all,
Mme. O

Keith
10-19-2018, 23:09
On the assumption that this is reality:

If that advance lever doesn't serve a useful purpose (ie re-cocking the shutter as per Epson RD1) and is just there for well heeled hipsters wanting to take a film trip down memory lane (fantasy lane) they need ****ing.

Michael Markey
10-20-2018, 04:23
On the assumption that this is reality:

If that advance lever doesn't serve a useful purpose (ie re-cocking the shutter as per Epson RD1) and is just there for well heeled hipsters wanting to take a film trip down memory lane (fantasy lane) they need ****ing.

You `aint on your own in that opinion Keith.
It`s been treated with derision elsewhere especially given the fact that their after service would be more deserving of some investment.

It only goes to reinforce the view that Leica aren`t a serious player.
Which is a great shame.

Emile de Leon
10-20-2018, 07:58
Hey..so what Leica service sucks...
You just have to buy 2 to 3...maybe 4..MD bodies...
Then you will always have 1 or 2 working at a time..
LOL..!

Livesteamer
10-20-2018, 08:10
Owning three to keep one running. Wasn't that the case with the old Jaguar V 12? But when it ran! Joe

Huss
10-20-2018, 09:38
Owning three to keep one running. Wasn't that the case with the old Jaguar V 12? But when it ran! Joe

Yeah but peeps put Chevy V8s in them and made Jagrolets.

Maybe that's what we should do with Leicas? Keep the body shell but gut the inside and put Nikon electronics in there. It would be a Likon.
That way:
a/ it won't break (!) and
ii/ if it does, it would be repaired in a week. Not 9 months.

jsrockit
10-20-2018, 09:53
On the assumption that this is reality:

If that advance lever doesn't serve a useful purpose (ie re-cocking the shutter as per Epson RD1) and is just there for well heeled hipsters wanting to take a film trip down memory lane (fantasy lane) they need ****ing.

Well, I might be more interested in the lever as a grip than a silly thumbs up attachment that just keeps sticking me in the chest because it cannot be folded away.

Huss
10-20-2018, 10:53
Well, I might be more interested in the lever as a grip than a silly thumbs up attachment that just keeps sticking me in the chest because it cannot be folded away.

Dood, that continuous poking really starts to hurt! It's why I use a wrist strap with my M240 with Thumbie, instead of neck strap.

jsrockit
10-20-2018, 11:26
Dood, that continuous poking really starts to hurt! It's why I use a wrist strap with my M240 with Thumbie, instead of neck strap.

Exactly...and I`ve had it ruin a shirt! I now just don`t use a thumbs up since Fujis are lighter than Leicas. I can only use wrist straps on smaller / lighter cameras...like the X100F or smaller.

MikeL
10-20-2018, 11:31
The wind lever does not cock the shutter?
Like mammary glands on a male Bos taurus.

jsrockit
10-21-2018, 05:25
The wind lever does not cock the shutter?


Nobody knows yet...but even if it does, it isn`t much better... ;)

Out to Lunch
10-21-2018, 05:30
As others have said: Leica goes Epson.

Phil_F_NM
10-21-2018, 07:23
The wind lever does not cock the shutter?
Like mammary glands on a male Bos taurus.

It should go through the full travel of the lever as a switch that cocks the shutter just to make people feel better. I don't put this past Leica at all. It's just novelty for the sake of novelty. A solution to a problem that didn't exist.

Phil Forrest

RichC
10-21-2018, 09:49
t's just novelty for the sake of novelty. A solution to a problem that didn't exist.
Exactly.

Wouldn't surprise me, though. Leica digital Ms have that ridiculous removable base that makes the camera a joke for professionals: it's impossible to use the camera in the studio with a tripod because you can't remove the battery or SD card! And the base reduces the stability when on a tripod.

This from someone who was foolish enough to buy an M8...

(Yes, I know studio work is not the forte of a Leica M. But why deliberately design a camera to make it less efficient and useful!?)

a.noctilux
10-21-2018, 10:10
Rich,
Since M(type 240) Leica M has tripod socket attached to the main body.
Unlike the M8/M9 base plate, their base plates have a hole.
You are right for the antique way of taking off base to change SD or battery.

As this M10-D, we'll know more in few days what the lever is for.

Phil_F_NM
10-21-2018, 10:20
Exactly.
...
But why deliberately design a camera to make it less efficient and useful!?

It's like one of those metal model cars you see at the end cap of a shopping aisle. The doors open, the hood opens, the trunk opens, the wheels turn, some even have articulating suspension. It is a new symbol for the imagination of the would-be player that hearkens back to the halcyon days of youth.
You can't get service for the toy car either...

I bought an M8 and M9. When they worked, they made great images. Never again though.

Phil Forrest

Godfrey
10-21-2018, 12:15
I've owned Leica M9, M-P 240, and M-D 262 digital M cameras. I've made 48,000 exposures with them. They have always worked just fine. The M9 came up with the sensor corrosion issue but it never stopped working; the M-P replaced it three-four weeks after I sent it to Leica for evaluation.

The Leica M was never intended to be a studio camera, btw. It's been used for that purpose, as well as tripod mounted for landscape and other field use, but that wasn't what it was designed for.

All of which does not say that the silly shutter wind lever on this alleged M10-D makes any sense at all, regardless of what it does or doesn't do.

G

David Hughes
10-21-2018, 12:31
We have radios that don't need batteries because you wind them up and they work until the spring runs down and the generator stops. Then you wind it up again.

And there's torches that you wind up and they charge a battery and that lights the bulb until it runs down and then you wind it up again.

So I'm wondering if this is another wind up...

Regards, David

BillBingham2
10-21-2018, 12:46
......So i'm wondering if this is another wind up...

Regards, David

Perhaps a trigger winder might be an option.....

B2 (;->

DougFord
10-21-2018, 13:06
It will be interesting if one needs to use the advance lever before each shot, like'a Leica film camera.
Perhaps rather than cocking the shutter is takes the device out of some sort of low power standby mode. Advance the lever, take a shot. Perhaps a timer is set before it goes back into standby mode. Take another shot quickly or you'll have to advance the lever again. Could be a PITA, like manual film camera PITA. :D

Godfrey
10-21-2018, 13:50
The measure of how much I love shutter cocking levers is that I just paid for a winder for the R6.2 I bought recently so that I could leave it folded and ignore it.

A film advance/shutter cocking lever is an unnecessary, dumb thing to put on a digital camera.

RichC
10-21-2018, 14:31
A film advance/shutter cocking lever is an unnecessary, dumb thing to put on a digital camera.
The Epson R-D1 being an honourable exception... based on a Bessa chassis including its manual shutter, it needed the cocking lever. Unlike this Leica abomination.

Phil_F_NM
10-21-2018, 15:59
I'm heavily left eye dominant so you can figure out what I think of winder levers. That thumbs up thing on the M9 was awful for my forehead.
If there was a lighter and more compact version of the MD4 for the Nikon F3, I wouldn't ever touch another 35mm camera for serious shooting, and the regular MD4 is already really damned good.
This is why I loved cameras like both of the Hexars and especially the Nikon F4.

Phil Forrest

GarageBoy
10-22-2018, 07:12
Isn't this what people have been wanting? A stripped down digital version of their film camera? Or has everyone who wanted one moved on/are retired?

Phil_F_NM
10-22-2018, 07:43
Yes, to some extent, but largely useless winder levers are just silly.

Phil ForrestIsn't this what people have been wanting? A stripped down digital version of their film camera? Or has everyone who wanted one moved on/are retired?

squirrel$$$bandit
10-22-2018, 08:06
A film advance/shutter cocking lever is an unnecessary, dumb thing to put on a digital camera.

I like it. It feels good to do, which is pretty much the only reason I use an actual camera instead of my phone. It was my favorite thing about the R-D1. Honestly, by this logic, the entire camera is dumb and unnecessary. You only use a Leica because you enjoy how it looks and what it feels like to use. If you shoot a Leica, you've already bought in to the aesthetics of obsolescence.

It would be disappointing if this lever were just decorative, though. Can't say I'm fond of vestigial/nostalgic design elements unless they have a practical purpose.

retinax
10-22-2018, 08:16
Perhaps a trigger winder might be an option.....

B2 (;->


If they also offer a motor drive to go with it, it might be a huge success with those who need to take a lot of pics quickly.

Emile de Leon
10-22-2018, 09:09
Like it or not..these cams are intended for the hobbiest market.. a fun toy to play with..for the people that can afford it..
Like Rolex watches and any 2 seater sports car..not meant to be logical or practical..
There are loads of other options for that..

Godfrey
10-22-2018, 09:37
Like it or not..these cams are intended for the hobbiest market.. a fun toy to play with..for the people that can afford it..
Like Rolex watches and any 2 seater sports car..not meant to be logical or practical..
There are loads of other options for that..

We should indeed celebrate the hobbiest, the amateur. Because no matter how many professionals there may be and how much equipment they use and buy, there are and will always be several orders of magnitude more amateurs who love photography and are willing to put a lot of money into its development than there are professionals.

Professionals do photography because they might like it but more because they make a living from it. Amateurs do photography because they love it. The quality of what they produce is only different insomuch as as it reflects the amount of thinking and effort ... and money and time ... they each individually put into the pursuit.

The fact that Leica's largest audience is a lot of relatively well-heeled amateurs should surprise or disparage no one. The fact that many of them are amongst the finest photographers around speaks to their commitment and willingness to work at their craft.

G

Emile de Leon
10-22-2018, 10:10
The fact that Leica's largest audience is a lot of relatively well-heeled amateurs should surprise or disparage no one. The fact that many of them are amongst the finest photographers around speaks to their commitment and willingness to work at their craft.
I didn't say other wise..!
But that said..Leica at this time is a luxury item..

airfrogusmc
10-22-2018, 11:13
I didn't say other wise..!
But that said..Leica at this time is a luxury item..

No more luxury than top o the line nikanons.

I happen to be a full time pro and have been for over 3 decades and my personal work is my hobby. So not that much different than a CPA that has photography as a hobby. I just happen to make my living at it and that is very different from what I do for me as the hobby part.

I find a camera that matches the way I see and work very practical. Leica M digital is that way for me. So there's the practical side.

CameraQuest
10-22-2018, 11:43
I bet DAG could install an advance lever on any digital M body

M10-DAG

Phil_F_NM
10-22-2018, 12:11
I bet DAG could install an advance lever on any digital M body

M10-DAGHey, I offered that service at the beginning of the thread! ;)

Phil Forrest

jbrianfoto
10-23-2018, 05:15
I'd like to see a Leicavit-DC offered :)

Steve M.
10-23-2018, 08:23
I have also heard that Leica is developing memory cards that hold only 36 photos.

Emile de Leon
10-23-2018, 10:39
I find a camera that matches the way I see and work very practical. Leica M digital is that way for me. So there's the practical side.
Here's the impractical side..
When your sensor goes Kaput-ski..and you are out of a 7K cam for 6 to 9 mos..

ptpdprinter
10-23-2018, 12:04
It's October 23rd. I thought they were supposed to announce the M10-D today.

Huss
10-23-2018, 12:33
Here's the impractical side..
When your sensor goes Kaput-ski..and you are out of a 7K cam for 6 to 9 mos..

You think it's going to be that cheap?
Cute.
;)

YouAreHere
10-23-2018, 13:33
It's October 23rd. I thought they were supposed to announce the M10-D today.

Whoopsie, they meant 2019. Deepest apologies for the tiny typo.

airfrogusmc
10-23-2018, 15:47
Here's the impractical side..
When your sensor goes Kaput-ski..and you are out of a 7K cam for 6 to 9 mos..

I have had a lot less problems with my Leica's (in fact no issues but the MM and M-E on recall and that took some time but it was all taken care of) My M 262 and M 10 no issues with 10s of thousands of frames through both. In fact at this point in time I had more issues with my Canon's than I have had with my Leica's including the recall. Leica service is an issue but if you are a pro you should have back up no matter what you shoot with. I am picking up another M 10 before the end of the year I like the M 10 so much.

Oscuro
10-23-2018, 21:24
I didn't say other wise..!
But that said..Leica at this time is a luxury item..

Yes! Both my husband and I abandoned Leica because of reliability issues in the digital issue. But price? No, top line Nikon or Canon is the same price. Nearly. Leica is highest but really this is like "we are cruising at 15,000 metres or we are cruising at 18,000 metres..." It is bleeding nose territory.

Part of a photographer's training should be working with both eyes. Don't worry about dominant eyeing. See what happens when you spend a month of shooting with the "other" eye. It can be like the French woman's "cinq a sept" ;-)!!

Mme. Oh!

mcfingon
10-23-2018, 21:32
But that wind lever will poke you in the other eye :)
John Mc

Oscuro
10-23-2018, 22:39
But that wind lever will poke you in the other eye :)
John Mc

That's alright, John! I've had worse! At least if my eyes are open, I know who's doing the poking.

Mme. Oh-oh!

Godfrey
10-23-2018, 23:08
October 23 came and went, and not an announcement from Leica in sight.

G

Archiver
10-24-2018, 00:17
Yeah, that ended with not a bang, but a whimper, didn't it.

a.noctilux
10-24-2018, 03:30
https://leicarumors.com/


https://leicarumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Leica-M10-vs.-Leica-M10-P-vs.-Leica-M10-D-cameras-comparison-560x418.jpg


Nothing to explain the "lever" function.
Don't know where this table comes from...Leica or not.

jsrockit
10-24-2018, 06:29
https://m.dpreview.com/news/2888145442/the-leica-m10-d-is-a-wi-fi-powered-rangefinder-with-no-lcd

Have fun....

Larry Cloetta
10-24-2018, 06:33
Ahhhh, it’s just a thumb rest. This all makes sense now to somebody.

Vince Lupo
10-24-2018, 06:40
The advance lever doesn't do anything? Kinda goofy. Plus that exposure compensation wheel on the back sure takes up a lot of real estate.

I like my M-D 262 -- adheres more closely to the philosophy of 'das Wesentliche'.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7358/27010973843_a31e752c87_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/H9Sitz)
M-D and Coffee (https://flic.kr/p/H9Sitz) by Vince Lupo (https://www.flickr.com/photos/direction-one-inc/), on Flickr

Godfrey
10-24-2018, 06:50
My note to each of the ten Leica dealers who sent me email announcements and to Leica USA, Leica GmBH:

You can tell your contacts at Leica that the only time I'm ever going to be interested in an M10-D is when they offer a model without that stupid faux film wind lever on it. All those stupid things do is get in my way. I put up with them on film cameras as a necessity, I DON'T WANT ONE ON MY DIGITAL CAMERA. At all. EVER.

Thank you,


Beyond that it sounds like a nice enough camera, albeit that I think it breaks the notion of what a simple M should be.

I'm delighted that I have my M-D typ 262.

G

YouAreHere
10-24-2018, 07:00
Using the FOTOS app for immediate download did PIXII just get pwned?

splitimageview
10-24-2018, 07:02
haha I think they just got validated :D

Out to Lunch
10-24-2018, 07:09
USD 8,000 for that. Unbelievable.

splitimageview
10-24-2018, 07:12
Yeah. How about a medium format 50R Fuji instead? Saves $3500.

JuJu
10-24-2018, 07:26
It looks a little similar to my design back in 2011 ;)
(except the EVF/OVF switch and battery level display)
original thread here (https://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108551).
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-V4IQGBaE5UA/W9B-17QBKrI/AAAAAAAAJwI/r9NIxzVVAcQ-t4nAfBbngqoM0j-dcpQTQCLcBGAs/s1600/m10P-06.jpg

Ste_S
10-24-2018, 07:27
USD 8,000 for that. Unbelievable.

Have Leica done that thing where they remove features from an existing camera, but then charge more for it ? They know their customer base I guess

Archlich
10-24-2018, 07:32
Even a tin foil can could burn better.

ptpdprinter
10-24-2018, 07:33
Have Leica done that thing where they remove features from an existing camera, but then charge more for it ? They know their customer base I guess
Yes. Leica removes all the menu options because they don't don't want to confuse their user base. And then they add on a nonsensical wind lever so that users can pretend they are shooting film. The M11 will have a real rewind lever. Turn it 36 times and the SD card pops out. For the true film experience.

Emile de Leon
10-24-2018, 07:38
I heard it's the video lever...you pump it up a few hundred times..video starts working for a few sec....then when you run out of power..you just pump it up again...

TennesseJones
10-24-2018, 07:41
It's not a parody?

Timmyjoe
10-24-2018, 07:43
So that really cool looking "could have re-cocked the shutter" advance lever on the M10-D is just for show (and ergonomics). That's disappointing.

Got an email from PopFlash this morning.

Best,
-Tim

Huss
10-24-2018, 07:44
"is set up almost entirely using the company's FOTOS app."

So you need to have another device with you in order to adjust settings etc?
Excellent way of simplifying things.

Glad they spent money on this instead of their service centers. What a joke.

p.s. the sample photos they used? It's like they needed something 'now' and so just had that guy lean out of the hotel window and take a few snaps.

MikeL
10-24-2018, 07:50
I'm SO disappointed they are using the M2/M3 lever. The M4/M6 lever is SO much more comfortable on my thumb when I'm out out-Bressoning Bresson and capturing that special moment. The M2/M3 lever gouging my thumb will totally distract me from that heroic moment when I capture the neighborhood cat balanced precariously on the fence, countre-jour style.

35photo
10-24-2018, 08:04
https://mailchi.mp/leicastoremiami/leica-at-photokina-stay-tuned-for-live-updates-2901301?e=a916a2ab0f"]https://mailchi.mp/leicastoremiami/leica-at-photokina-stay-tuned-for-live-updates-2901301?e=a916a2ab0f

tightsqueez
10-24-2018, 08:04
This is seriously embarrassing; made for poseurs burying what is left of the Leica legacy.

ptpdprinter
10-24-2018, 08:09
From the Leica announcement: "Integrated fold-out thumb rest". It's even worse than I thought. Should sell like hotcakes.

bayernfan
10-24-2018, 08:16
no lever function? wi-fi setup? no thanks.

Emile de Leon
10-24-2018, 08:23
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWVonIhTYsQ
I have to admit...I likey it..
Phone app makes sense..it should have a video option though...oh well...
Slow seller to be sure..but for those that want..probably nothing better...

bhop73
10-24-2018, 08:33
I actually like the lever. (seems i'm the only one) I always hook my thumb around the advance lever on all of my film cameras. It's more comfortable that way for me and i've never liked the clip in ones.

That said.. I don't like that it relies on a phone app for settings.. will that still work years down the road? I doubt it.. but who knows for sure at this point. So.. even if I had the money for it I wouldn't get one.

I still like shooting real film anyway..

MikeL
10-24-2018, 08:35
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvGopsM1G9g&frags=pl%2Cwn

35photo
10-24-2018, 09:22
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWVonIhTYsQ

C'mon man!! I've been following him for years now... Literally the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard being said about Leica digital cameras within the first 6 secs of that video... "When you nail the shot with the MD its gives that WOW, I did that" I'm speechless... Some of the worst marketing speak I've ever heard in my life... But people will buy into it no question... The good news is for those who are using for a used M10 prices are going to be looking much better soon..

yossarian123
10-24-2018, 09:33
even if it doesn't "do" anything it's still a potential failure point, it can either break or possibly(?) let in moisture. I'd hate to have that thing break and then spend a bunch of money to have it fixed.
it's an oddball feature and doesn't really line up with their whole minimalist strategy with the MD line.

Ko.Fe.
10-24-2018, 09:35
M-D 262 makes sense for film shooter. ISO is where it should be.
This 8k piece of rangefinder is just moronic and overpriced camera.

santino
10-24-2018, 09:38
Its as useful as Yashica digi film... not!
Leica, are you serious? C'mon...

Epson 1 - Leica 0

splitimageview
10-24-2018, 09:38
Have never heard of an M wind lever breaking. Is the camera weather resistant? If not, there are plenty of places for moisture.

santino
10-24-2018, 09:43
I wonder when will Leica drop the support for their new fotos app? There will be new versions of ios and android...

airfrogusmc
10-24-2018, 10:00
The M 10 D is not in my future but Leica is one of the few companies not making cameras like all the others out there. I think that choice is a good thing. I will be buying a new M 10 before the end of the year. So if sales from things like this keeps them making cameras like the M 10 then in my opinion that is a good thing. Also I would imagine there is a M 10 MM in the future and i think that could be very interesting. Anytime a new camera comes out not everyone is happy. All you have to do is go to a ________ forum when the new model that most on that forum have and there is a ton of hate. Anytime there is a decision made there will alway be at least 10% that wont like that decision. Don't like the M 10 D? There are certainly plenty of other choices out there. You can always by one of those.

maitani
10-24-2018, 10:13
had high hopes on this one, imo the M10 and M10p are great with no weakness, besides price.

the M10D did 2 things wrong. dummy film advance is a no-go, iso dial should be on the back.

i would be interested to know if:

1 when using visoflex, is a full menu as on M10 with settings and all is there?
2 can the connectivity thing be completely deactivated?

they came close with this one, battery less manual shutter cocking would hv been nice.but seem to have failed on the last meters. they should have released a M-D just thinner iso on the back M10 sensor and visoflex port

Archlich
10-24-2018, 10:28
had high hopes on this one, imo the M10 and M10p are great with no weakness, besides price.

the M10D did 2 things wrong. dummy film advance is a no-go, iso dial should be on the back.

i would be interested to know if:

1 when using visoflex, would a full menu a on M10 with settings is available
2 if connectivity thing can be completely deactivated

they came close with this one, battery less manual shutter cocking would hv been nice.but seem to have failed on the last meters. they should have released a M-D just thinner iso on the back M10 sensor and visoflex port

Think about the R-D1, which was built around a real Bessa with complete cocking mechanism. In a stock M10 there would be no space for such thing.

Doesn't feel like they failed at the "last meter" since they will likely have to completely redesign the camera - to the extent that it might be called M7-D or something like that. I used to disregard any rumor of a R-D1 like digital M since it would not be cost-effective for Leica to commit the effort, but this time the photos did give me high hopes as well...

What makes me sad is Leica didn't fail to meet my expectation after all.

YouAreHere
10-24-2018, 10:44
A camera so simple it requires connection to a smartphone app just to change the date setting. Not very M-like.

Emile de Leon
10-24-2018, 11:25
C'mon man!! I've been following him for years now... Literally the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard being said about Leica digital cameras within the first 6 secs of that video... "When you nail the shot with the MD its gives that WOW, I did that" I'm speechless... Some of the worst marketing speak I've ever heard in my life... But people will buy into it no question... The good news is for those who are using for a used M10 prices are going to be looking much better soon..
LOL..
Leica has been marketing their M's for years like this..since the film days..nothing new..
This is a funner toy..for the rich class..and for folks with $$ to burn..
What else are they gonna spend their loot on..
I want one...but would never use it..as I need a video option..esp for that kind of bread..
So add in the high price..the unreliability...and the special thumb grip..and its definitely a no no..
But..then you add in the sexiness..the rangefinder mystique...good resale value..and all the other great M attributes..
And it might just be worth it..
Esp for the older person..after a lifetime of work..and money in the bank..why the hell not...lol..

airfrogusmc
10-24-2018, 11:41
Again I will not be buying the new D but Leica M digital fits the way I see and work. That is the reason I own them. Not because some marketing gimmick or any other reason than the one I stated. I never liked working with DSLRs and I owned them for over a decade. Dumped them 3 years ago and went all Leica digital M with absolutely no regrets.

I'm not rich, I am a working photographer but I always have put money into the tools I need.

If a camera like this or any other camera they make helps their bottom line then rock on Leica so you can continue to make real gems like the M 10 and the MM.

ptpdprinter
10-24-2018, 11:41
lol...LOL indeed.

kshapero
10-24-2018, 11:41
Love it but waiting on the Pixii.

Huss
10-24-2018, 11:51
If the camera did not have the fake film winder, I'd understand it.
But I hate fake stuff. And the lever is fake. It's like buying a toy camera that has knobs that dont move or do anything. It's pretending to be something.

d_c
10-24-2018, 11:56
I'm guessing it will only be a matter of time before we see the first collar mod to remove the 'thumb rest'. It has no switching function and so I imagine wouldn't be too onerous for somebody competent to remove.

35photo
10-24-2018, 12:00
Again I will not be buying the new D but Leica M digital fits the way I see and work. That is the reason I own them. Not because some marketing gimmick or any other reason than the one I stated. I never liked working with DSLRs and I owned them for over a decade. Dumped them 3 years ago and went all Leica digital M with absolutely no regrets.

I'm not rich, I am a woking photographer but I always have put money into the tools I need.

If a camera like this or any other camera they make helps their bottom line then rock on Leica so you can continue to make real gems like the M 10 and the MM.

I'm not sure why you or anyone else needs to state this... I find it odd... but that's just me. Who really cares if some chooses to drop 8k on a camera... big deal.... People buy expensive stuff all the time... cameras, cars, boats houses, TVs, clothes, stereos... whatever... Sorry didn't mean to pick on you here..

ptpdprinter
10-24-2018, 12:03
I'm not sure why you or anyone else needs to state this... I find it odd... but that's just me. Who really cares if some chooses to drop 8k on a camera... big deal.... People buy expensive stuff all the time... cameras, cars, boats houses, TVs, clothes, stereos... whatever... Sorry didn't mean to pick on you here..
Doesn't mean you don't shake your head, particularly when it is something like an $8,000 camera with a wind lever that doesn't do anything. Some things deserve ridicule because they are ridiculous.

jsrockit
10-24-2018, 12:04
If the camera did not have the fake film winder, I'd understand it.
But I hate fake stuff. And the lever is fake. It's like buying a toy camera that has knobs that dont move or do anything. It's pretending to be something.

Yet, people put thumbs up on cameras all of the time to replace the wind lever they got used to holding. I`m conflicted. Like you, I do not like fake things... but I like that you can fold this away unlike the thumbs up we discussed the other day. In this case, if someone gave me this camera, I would get over this fake item pretty quickly.

jsrockit
10-24-2018, 12:05
A camera so simple it requires connection to a smartphone app just to change the date setting. Not very M-like.

You only set the date once no?

35photo
10-24-2018, 12:13
Doesn't mean you don't shake your head, particularly when it is something like an $8,000 camera with a wind lever that doesn't do anything. Some things deserve ridicule because they are ridiculous.

Ridicule away... I mean Leica has a history for doing stuff like this... this latest is nothing new at all.. gold plated cameras, limited editions....etc I view more as funny than anything else... but people buy it all the time... Although I do like how it integrates with the app... I know its been done before, but for Leica to do it on a M series pretty slick...

Fraser
10-24-2018, 12:14
Just another overpriced pretentious piece of jewellery from Leica. Funny how much abuse the Df got when it was released because it went for the 'retro' look but at least everything on it actually does something.
Leica is so far from what the company used to be, you paid a premium for the quality and the compactness of the M. But now you pay for the 'look' and the out of date technology.
After saying all that I'm sure it will sell well.........

ptpdprinter
10-24-2018, 12:15
Yet, people put thumbs up on cameras all of the time to replace the rewind lever they got used to holding. I`m conflicted. Like you, I do not like fake things... but I like that you can fold this away unlike the thumbs up we discussed the other day.
A thumbs up is primarily used by people to pimp out their camera, but at least it is not something pretending to be something else.
In this case, if someone gave me this camera, I would get over this fake item pretty quickly.
I'm pretty sure DAG could remove it for a nominal charge. It might even become one of his signature mods.

Emile de Leon
10-24-2018, 12:25
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HUHRjFuB-E

Emile de Leon
10-24-2018, 12:26
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-u3AoSV5e4

jsrockit
10-24-2018, 12:30
A thumbs up is primarily used by people to pimp out their camera, but at least it is not something pretending to be something else.

Of course a thumbs up is completely inspired by people who used the wind lever on a M as a grip. This is simply a grip... even if in the past it had a primary function in the past.

jsrockit
10-24-2018, 12:34
Just another overpriced pretentious piece of jewellery from Leica. Funny how much abuse the Df got when it was released because it went for the 'retro' look but at least everything on it actually does something.

It is a bit different... the Df got abuse because it was big and it didn`t have a screen conducive to manual focusing. I loved it, but people were expecting something different. The wind lever is a grip in this case, so it does something. It just doesn`t do the primary function it used to do.

Fraser
10-24-2018, 12:37
It is a bit different... the Df got abuse because it was big and it didn`t have a screen conducive to manual focusing. I loved it, but people were expecting something different. The wind lever is a grip in this case, so it does something. It just doesn`t do the primary function it used to do.

Leica may be marketing it as a grip but its main purpose is for posers to pretend they are shooting film like the good old days of photography.

YouAreHere
10-24-2018, 12:39
You only set the date once no?

There is the Time setting as well. Travel across timezones and/or across the International Date Line. Does the camera Automatically reset itself?

tightsqueez
10-24-2018, 12:39
This camera will sell well, in line with penile implants. The M-D line offers one thing an M10 doesn’t; self-discipline. For many that may seem priceless. However this is but worthless for people who can walk out the door and not look at their screen for days.

jsrockit
10-24-2018, 12:47
Leica may be marketing it as a grip but its main purpose is for posers to pretend they are shooting film like the good old days of photography.

Maybe... like I said, I`m not that comfortable with it... but many who have used a film m are used to resting their thumb on the wind lever to grip the camera. Of course there was a reason... but I`m sure Leica saw the thumbs up and said... ok, let`s do it. I`m not comfortable with Leica in general these days, but I would use a Leica CL if it was half the price.

jsrockit
10-24-2018, 12:48
There is the Time setting as well. Travel across timezones and/or across the International Date Line. Does the camera Automatically reset itself?

Ok, so you might have to set it a few times a year in that case...

Larry Cloetta
10-24-2018, 12:51
Before the internet, if a company introduced a camera which did not fit everyone’s needs, no one knew it even existed until they went into a camera shop and saw a new one sitting on the counter. After talking to the sales person, you’d either consider buying it if you liked it and could afford it, or just say “hunh” and walk out with some film, if you didn’t. And forget about it.

These days the world’s total anger level rises perceptibly every time Leica introduces a new camera. People who have never bought a new Leica in their lives rush to their keyboards to tell perfect strangers, with obvious indignation, that they won’t be buying this one either. People seem incapable of just softly saying “hunh” to themselves and going on with the rest of their day.
“I am displeased with the feature set on this camera I will never experience!! World must know NOW!!!)

And it’s not “overpriced” just because you don’t have the funds available, or have them but would rather use them elsewhere. It is only “overpriced” if Leica can’t sell them, which is yet to be seen. Leicas have been expensive from day one, more than most people could afford. If they are actually “overpriced” that by definition means they will go out of business, and yet they seem relatively healthy, for a camera company. “Not worth the asking price to me because ‘x’” seems more accurate and fair. “I can get this other thing which seems just as good or better to me (reviews, specs!) for much less money.” Okay, just get that, but why do others need to know this?

I’m not buying one because, well, on the one hand “Hunh”, and/or I’d rather either buy something else wih the money, or hoard the money so the government can waste it after I die.

Not sure if we are going to reach “It’s just like Hitler”, but we are only on page 5.

Calzone
10-24-2018, 12:58
You only set the date once no?

John,

To set the time and date on my SL I had to turn on the GPS.

Kinda funny I owned a rare 1980 Checker Limo that featured a vinyl top. Also had an opera window. Only about 200 limos ever made so a very rare car. Kinda ugly, but also cool.

Not unusual for cameras to have features we never use or don't need. LOL.

What about reframing the lever as a conversation piece.

Cal

Fraser
10-24-2018, 12:59
Before the internet, if a company introduced a camera which did not fit everyone’s needs, no one knew it even existed until they went into a camera shop and saw a new one sitting on the counter. After talking to the sales person, you’d either consider buying it if you liked it and could afford it, or just say “hunh” and walk out with some film, if you didn’t. And forget about it.

These days the world’s total anger level rises perceptibly every time Leica introduces a new camera. People who have never bought a new Leica in their lives rush to their keyboards to tell perfect strangers, with obvious indignation, that they won’t be buying this one either. People seem incapable of just softly saying “hunh” to themselves and going on with the rest of their day.
“I am displeased with the feature set on this camera I will never experience!! World must know NOW!!!)

And it’s not “overpriced” just because you don’t have the funds available, or have them but would rather use them elsewhere. It is only “overpriced” if Leica can’t sell them, which is yet to be seen. Leicas have been expensive from day one, more than most people could afford. If they are actually “overpriced” that by definition means they will go out of business, and yet they seem relatively healthy, for a camera company. “Not worth the asking price to me because ‘x’” seems more accurate and fair. “I can get this other thing which seems just as good or better to me (reviews, specs!) for much less money.” Okay, just get that, but why do others need to know this?

I’m not buying one because, well, on the one hand “Hunh”, and/or I’d rather either buy something else wih the money, or hoard the money so the government can waste it after I die.

I'm angry because I think Leica cameras are great and I still think my film Ms are the best cameras I've ever used, but when a company that years ago could make something so functional and nice to use release something so stupid.
Maybe they are not overpriced but they are certainly not very good value for money.

Roger Hicks
10-24-2018, 12:59
Before the internet, if a company introduced a camera which did not fit everyone’s needs, no one knew it even existed until they went into a camera shop and saw a new one sitting on the counter. After talking to the sales person, you’d either consider buying it if you liked it and could afford it, or just say “hunh” and walk out with some film, if you didn’t. And forget about it.

These days the world’s total anger level rises perceptibly every time Leica introduces a new camera. People who have never bought a new Leica in their lives rush to their keyboards to tell perfect strangers, with obvious indignation, that they won’t be buying this one either. People seem incapable of just softly saying “hunh” to themselves and going on with the rest of their day.
“I am displeased with the feature set on this camera I will never experience!! World must know NOW!!!)

And it’s not “overpriced” just because you don’t have the funds available, or have them but would rather use them elsewhere. It is only “overpriced” if Leica can’t sell them, which is yet to be seen. Leicas have been expensive from day one, more than most people could afford. If they are actually “overpriced” that by definition means they will go out of business, and yet they seem relatively healthy, for a camera company. “Not worth the asking price to me because ‘x’” seems more accurate and fair. “I can get this other thing which seems just as good or better to me (reviews, specs!) for much less money.” Okay, just get that, but why do others need to know this?

I’m not buying one because, well, on the one hand “Hunh”, and/or I’d rather either buy something else wih the money, or hoard the money so the government can waste it after I die.

Not sure if we are going to reach “It’s just like Hitler”, but we are only on page 5.
Dear Larry,

Well, yes.

Imagine if more people knew about Alpas, old or new.

"This commercially successful camera doesn't suit me

and/or

I can't afford one

Therefore

There is no reason why they should exist, and nobody should be allowed to buy one."

Cheers,

R.

tightsqueez
10-24-2018, 13:04
Before the internet, if a company introduced a camera which did not fit everyone’s needs, no one knew it even existed until they went into a camera shop and saw a new one sitting on the counter. After talking to the sales person, you’d either consider buying it if you liked it and could afford it, or just say “hunh” and walk out with some film, if you didn’t. And forget about it.

These days the world’s total anger level rises perceptibly every time Leica introduces a new camera. People who have never bought a new Leica in their lives rush to their keyboards to tell perfect strangers, with obvious indignation, that they won’t be buying this one either. People seem incapable of just softly saying “hunh” to themselves and going on with the rest of their day.
“I am displeased with the feature set on this camera I will never experience!! World must know NOW!!!)

And it’s not “overpriced” just because you don’t have the funds available, or have them but would rather use them elsewhere. It is only “overpriced” if Leica can’t sell them, which is yet to be seen. Leicas have been expensive from day one, more than most people could afford. If they are actually “overpriced” that by definition means they will go out of business, and yet they seem relatively healthy, for a camera company. “Not worth the asking price to me because ‘x’” seems more accurate and fair. “I can get this other thing which seems just as good or better to me (reviews, specs!) for much less money.” Okay, just get that, but why do others need to know this?

I’m not buying one because, well, on the one hand “Hunh”, and/or I’d rather either buy something else wih the money, or hoard the money so the government can waste it after I die.

Internet for some is like the honesty a few drinks will yield, yet it fails to provide credibility.

ptpdprinter
10-24-2018, 13:08
What about reframing the lever as a conversation piece.
No reframing required. The conversation is already underway. Leica must have nothing but contempt for their customers to introduce something like this. If someone actually tries to wind it, thinks it's jammed, and breaks off the lever, will it take nine months to repair? It's a Leica.

jsrockit
10-24-2018, 13:37
Leica must have nothing but contempt for their customers to introduce something like this.

Yeah, that`s exactly how you stay in business and create luxury stores.

ptpdprinter
10-24-2018, 13:45
Yeah, that`s exactly how you stay in business and create luxury stores.
Sadly, they know their market. Mostly bling seekers and a half a dozen photographers. Is anyone here actually doing to buy the M10-D? I know, you are too embarrassed to admit it.

jsrockit
10-24-2018, 14:02
Sadly, they know their market. Mostly bling seekers and a half a dozen photographers. Is anyone here actually doing to buy the M10-D?

Someone will... but it won`t be me or you I guess. I`ve moved on to cameras that work better for me.

aizan
10-24-2018, 14:25
it’s just a thumb rest...

leicas are SO practical! hahahaaa...

d_c
10-24-2018, 14:26
Steve Huff review and video

http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2018/10/24/the-leica-m10-d-review-less-is-more-again/

https://youtu.be/pWVonIhTYsQ

ptpdprinter
10-24-2018, 14:53
Steve Huff review and video

http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2018/10/24/the-leica-m10-d-review-less-is-more-again/

https://youtu.be/pWVonIhTYsQ
No need to read the review or watch the video. This is all you need to know:

"It’s also light and small, and has an amazing thumb grip in the very retro and vintage film cocking lever. Once you use this grip you will not want to be without it. Leica, please put this in all future versions of the M ; )"

The next shot is a canned photo of someone setting up a CL with a phone using FOTOS.

Dante_Stella
10-24-2018, 16:33
No reframing required. The conversation is already underway. Leica must have nothing but contempt for their customers to introduce something like this. If someone actually tries to wind it, thinks it's jammed, and breaks off the lever, will it take nine months to repair? It's a Leica.

I don't know if contempt is the right word, but Graham Greene's Dr. Fischer of Geneva comes to mind. But I'm some kind of M240/246 user, so take it for what it's worth (or not worth).

Dante

Godfrey
10-24-2018, 18:04
Sadly, they know their market. Mostly bling seekers and a half a dozen photographers. Is anyone here actually doing to buy the M10-D? I know, you are too embarrassed to admit it.

I'd buy one if it didn't have the stupid faux film wind lever. It has the one thing that I would enjoy good use out of: the ability to use the Visoflex 020, which would enable my ability to use the Leica R lenses, bellows, etc for macro and tabletop work.

I'm not in the market just at the moment. Perhaps Leica will listen to all of the noise and produce a model without the idiocy for people who don't want it.

G

PRJ
10-24-2018, 18:07
I generally like the idea of the camera with the lack of lcd. The wind comes out too far though. It should have been limited to what a regular film M is like when you use the lever to rest your thumb, just free of the body. Or they could have just put a nubbin there instead. Kinda weird to use the shape of a wind lever...

I think it fails on price though for what it is. I can just imagine the insufferable Leica Wonkers who will buy this camera and proclaim how pure they are. No one that buys this camera will say it stinks because they will look like a fool having paid what amounts to a premium for it.

The shilling for the camera from the youboobers is pretty bad too....

jawarden
10-24-2018, 18:14
That is one strange camera. I have no problem with a thumb grip/rest/whatever, but making it look like a film advance lever is a poor choice. Winding on film on an M3 for instance is a real pleasure because it feels and sounds good as the parts work together, and you have tactile feedback that the film is moving properly, and that the shutter is ready, and when you've exposed your last image the resistance in the lever tells you so. It's an authentic, high quality experience. I can't imagine this thumb rest feeling anything but vacant in comparison.

Maybe for next year's model the base plate could come off like on an M3 and people could pretend to struggle loading faux film while actually inserting a memory card. ;-)

Emile de Leon
10-24-2018, 18:34
This is a real Leica camera...for the real Leica man..hahaha....
But all kidding aside..no lcd..but you can still use the visoflex..and tilty it too..as well as your cell phone..
If I needed this m10d....which I don't..I would definitely buy it..as it comes real close to perfect..
The "film" wind..they should have used the one on the m4..as the m3 type if you have ever had it stick in your eye by accident..that really bites..
I've got a lot of Leica glass..would work well on this cam to be sure..

bhop73
10-24-2018, 18:34
Maybe for next year's model the base plate could come off like on an M3 and people could pretend to struggle loading faux film while actually inserting a memory card. ;-)

Don't all digital Ms already do that?

Phil_F_NM
10-24-2018, 18:35
Maybe for next year's model the base plate could come off like on an M3 and people could pretend to struggle loading faux film while actually inserting a memory card. ;-)

How about they put on a semi-functional "rewind" lever, where the original one is? Or for the early M2 crowd, perhaps a button; this will have to be flipped/depressed BEFORE removing the baseplate in order to protect the SD card. Even better, the rewind knob then has to be rotated at least 17 times before pulling the baseplate. If this step isn't taken, the camera will "fog" most of the images in the card and irreparably damage the data of all but a few.
I mean, if we're going to get a completely real, fake experience, don't hold back; we might as well go whole-hog.

Phil Forrest

aizan
10-24-2018, 18:57
https://leicarumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Leica-Store-and-Gallery-Los-Angeles-Grand-Opening-3.jpg
“fake leica” by liao yibai

i think he may have been on to something.

Fjäll
10-24-2018, 19:06
I'd buy one if it didn't have the stupid faux film wind lever. It has the one thing that I would enjoy good use out of: the ability to use the Visoflex 020, which would enable my ability to use the Leica R lenses, bellows, etc for macro and tabletop work.

I'm not in the market just at the moment. Perhaps Leica will listen to all of the noise and produce a model without the idiocy for people who don't want it.

G

I'm sure it would be easy to just remove it.

splitimageview
10-24-2018, 19:28
Should be no more difficult to remove than it is to remove the wind lever on a film M.

And then everyone can add a Thumbs Up, right?:D

jawarden
10-24-2018, 19:39
Don't all digital Ms already do that?

Wow, right you are, and I had no idea. I use an M3 and haven't tried the digital ones. Seems like another odd design choice, but okay it's unique. :-)

Huss
10-24-2018, 19:42
Any truth to the rumour that the film winder actually doubles as a bottle opener?

Now that would be cool. The first full frame digital camera with bottle opener. As we all know that capturing that decisive moment can be thirsty work.

Phil_F_NM
10-24-2018, 20:09
Any truth to the rumour that the film winder actually doubles as a bottle opener?

Now that would be cool. The first full frame digital camera with bottle opener. As we all know that capturing that decisive moment can be thirsty work.

I doubt that the camera would have a bottle opener but seeing as I was a good sailor, I took a lesson from my USMC brethren and adapted and overcame the adversity of not having a bottle opener when needed; by using one of the lips of the lens flange. Works fine to pry open a bottle cap. Then again, pretty much anything does.
I would expect Leica to maybe have a corkscrew double as the trigger winder lever for a Leicavit.

Phil Forrest

Guth
10-24-2018, 21:18
For me, one word best describes the faux film advance lever on this camera: cheesy. I’ve said exactly the same thing about the fake “carburetors” (used to disguise the fuel injection throttle bodies) that Triumph now uses on their classic Bonneville series of street bikes. More recently Triumph also added water cooling to these motorcycles by attempting to hide the radiator between the twin downtubes of the frame. They also kept some pseudo air fins on the engine cylinders passing it off as functional cooling when it’s not really needed. They’ve been selling like crazy — just as much “lifestyle products” as they are motorcycles I suppose.

I guess that is just what a lot of people are looking for these days. Likewise I won’t be surprised if Leica ends up selling plenty of these. Yes, some might manage to remove the fake film advance lever and end up creating some stellar images with it. Regardless, I’ll still think of this as the cheesiest Leica of all. Unless heaven forbid Leica should come up with some way to top it. I sure hope not.

Jamie123
10-24-2018, 23:06
Maybe it's a bit OCD but doesn't it seem that it would be very frustrating to have your finger on a "lever" and never be able to pull it through?

Michael Markey
10-25-2018, 01:12
I’ll still think of this as the cheesiest Leica of all. Unless heaven forbid Leica should come up with some way to top it. I sure hope not.

I`m sure somebody is working on that at this very moment ...

Keith
10-25-2018, 01:43
I just discovered it's a thumb rest. The camera was never in my sights but I have to say I'm very disappointed! :(

robert blu
10-25-2018, 01:54
I'm not in the market for a new camera, budget sone't allow it and I'm satisfied with the M10 as it is.

I do not like the falso film wind lever. Apart of this I like the concept of this camera, without LCD but with the possibility to connect an EVF just in case of need.

robert

PS: about the false wind lever: I think Leica before deciding for this solution made appropriate marketing research...

DavidKKHansen
10-25-2018, 03:22
People seem incapable of just softly saying “hunh” to themselves and going on with the rest of their day.


To this camera I say: hunh.

(softly spoken, of course ;) )

Moto Mark
10-25-2018, 04:37
I don’t see what the big deal is about not having a screen in the back of the camera. I have the LCD screen turned off on my M240 so I can shoot and not think about the images until later.

Fake wind lever notwithstanding it’s a nice camera but I’ll stick with what I have for the immediate future.

mod2001
10-25-2018, 05:02
I don’t see what the big deal is about not having a screen in the back of the camera.

Helpful sometimes if you're in street photography, had it several times that people were a little bit p.... off but relaxed when they saw I shoot film :angel:

Anyhow, the no screen solution is probably better suited to build smaller compact cameras like the GRIII for example, EFV & Flash in, display off. Would be nice. I never used the display (except initial settings) on my digicams.

Juergen

Keith
10-25-2018, 05:11
To me this is similar to whacking a Starsky and Hutch style racing stripe on a Merc or BMW. lol :D

c.poulton
10-25-2018, 05:53
Leica has since the 'Ur-Leica' followed the form-follows-function philosophy of the Bauhaus. Sadly, with this incarnation of it's M10-D, they have gone away from this philosophy with this 'fake' wind-on lever, whatever they say about it being thumb rest.

Sorry, Leica, I don't buy this...

tifat
10-25-2018, 05:59
I guess I should be embarrassed to admit that I like it. I use an M4 and and X100T. On the Fuji, I use an accessory thumb rest. If the wind lever had never existed and Leica introduced this as a retractable thumb rest, it would be brilliant.

Bobfrance
10-25-2018, 06:04
To me this is similar to whacking a Starsky and Hutch style racing stripe on a Merc or BMW. lol :D


😂
..........

ptpdprinter
10-25-2018, 06:19
I`m sure somebody is working on that at this very moment ...
We already have the removable bottom. How about adding a flip-up back so you can put the SD card where the shutter curtains used to be? Truth be told, I'm still holding out for moving the ISO dial to the back, and adding a rewind crank. It would work like in the film camera models; it just wouldn't do anything. But you could pretend it did for the real film experience. And everyone around you could marvel that you were still using film. Then you could go to a cafe, and take a few photos of your camera and cafe au lait. Beret optional. Magnifique!

willie_901
10-25-2018, 07:05
Using the FOTOS app for immediate download did PIXII just get pwned?

No. Many brands offer immediate image transfer. But those brands don't have mechanical rangefinders.

splitimageview
10-25-2018, 07:08
Sorry, Leica, I don't buy this...

They aren't worried, there are more than enough who *will* buy it

:D

ptpdprinter
10-25-2018, 07:09
No. Many brands offer immediate image transfer. But those brands don't have mechanical rangefinders.
Or fake film advance levers.

ptpdprinter
10-25-2018, 07:14
Perhaps Leica will listen to all of the noise and produce a model without the idiocy for people who don't want it.
The could realize their error in judgment and cease production of the ones with the wind lever, which would then skyrocket in value. It would be a win-win.

Godfrey
10-25-2018, 08:11
I don’t see what the big deal is about not having a screen in the back of the camera. I have the LCD screen turned off on my M240 so I can shoot and not think about the images until later.

Fake wind lever notwithstanding it’s a nice camera but I’ll stick with what I have for the immediate future.

On the small Leica M body, removing the LCD and all the attendant buttons leaves a lot more room for my fingers to grip the camera without hitting a control inadvertently. On my CL, I've become very enamored of the "turn off all controls" toggle that was introduced in the firmware 2.0 release because I'm forever hitting something otherwise and having to reset my configuration.

brbo
10-25-2018, 08:37
If the wind lever had never existed and Leica introduced this as a retractable thumb rest, it would be brilliant.

Agree.

Anyway, Leica can/will most certainly offer a service to remove the lever. It will cost $1000+, but since "less is more" that is a small cost for "real photographers"...

Guth
10-25-2018, 08:47
To me this is similar to whacking a Starsky and Hutch style racing stripe on a Merc or BMW. lol :D

That's pretty funny. I'd actually equate it more to Merc or BMW taking one of their cars with an automatic transmission, installing a fake manual gearshift and featuring it as a handrest.

jawarden
10-25-2018, 08:59
That's pretty funny. I'd actually equate it more to Merc or BMW taking one of their cars with an automatic transmission, installing a fake manual gearshift and featuring it as a handrest.

Oh that's good. :-)

Godfrey
10-25-2018, 11:52
That's pretty funny. I'd actually equate it more to Merc or BMW taking one of their cars with an automatic transmission, installing a fake manual gearshift and featuring it as a handrest.

right on the mark.

Huss
10-25-2018, 12:00
That's pretty funny. I'd actually equate it more to Merc or BMW taking one of their cars with an automatic transmission, installing a fake manual gearshift and featuring it as a handrest.

and then putting out a press release saying it brings u back to the roots of driving.

Fraser
10-25-2018, 12:15
and then putting out a press release saying it brings u back to the roots of driving.

Now that is funny:D:D:D

santino
10-25-2018, 12:28
Ironically the title of the thread got wrong... it's not a cocking lever :-)

bayernfan
10-25-2018, 12:44
if you had shown that leaked image to a group of 10 leica film/digital shooters with no explanation, id bet hard money that at least 8 of them would have expected it to be functional.

hindsight is 20/20, as they say.

aizan
10-25-2018, 13:01
the other 2 being the cynics?

FrozenInTime
10-25-2018, 13:23
Still think there are too many user aids:
Monochrome sensor with no light meter or auto exposure and WORM SD cards is the way to go ;-)

RichC
10-25-2018, 17:08
This is a toy, not a camera.

Leica began as a truly innovative company that led through technology and design. They were the epitome of modernity, with a simplicity of form that followed function. There was nothing excessive about a Leica camera; nothing unneeded, no frills, no frippery.

Today, Leica sells nostalgia and imitation. It's no longer interested in function or photography, only in parting rich people from their money with fakery. Pretending to not have a screen (but still needing one - thus the Heath Robinson phone app). Pretending to have a film-cocking lever. Pretending this is what using film is like.

I'd call it a joke. But it's not funny. Just sad.

Leica isn't the only company doing this - it seems to be a growing trend. Someone mentioned motorcycles earlier - the modern Triumph Bonneville is a pathetic pastiche with its fake carbs. And there was that awful Yashica with "digital film" (https://petapixel.com/2018/10/22/a-review-and-teardown-of-the-st-yashica-y35-camera/).

The ghost of Bauhaus is spinning in its grave...!

splitimageview
10-25-2018, 17:15
I guess I don't get it. People have been paying up to $200 for various Thumbs Up models for over 10 years, which is nothing more than a fake advance lever.

Think of it this way, getting an M10-D saves that expense!

:D

aizan
10-25-2018, 17:21
if i were in charge of leica, i would have redesigned the body so that it wouldn't need a fake film advance lever for a rear grip. authenticity is part of the leica brand, after all. they should be reinforcing it, not spoiling it!

Godfrey
10-25-2018, 17:46
I guess I don't get it. People have been paying up to $200 for various Thumbs Up models for over 10 years, which is nothing more than a fake advance lever.
....


Not everyone buys ... or wants ... those things, ya know?

G

Godfrey
10-25-2018, 17:49
This is a toy, not a camera.

Leica began as a truly innovative company that led through technology and design. They were the epitome of modernity, with a simplicity of form that followed function. There was nothing excessive about a Leica camera; nothing unneeded, no frills, no frippery.

Today, Leica sells nostalgia and imitation. Its no longer interested in function or photography, only in parting rich people from their money with fakery. Pretending to not have a screen (but still needing one - thus the Heath Robinson phone app). Pretending to have a film-cocking lever. Pretending this is what using film is like.

I'd call it a joke. But it's not funny. Just sad.

Leica isn't the only company doing this - it seems to be a growing trend. Someone mentioned motorcycles earlier - the modern Triumph Bonneville is a pathetic pastiche with its fake carbs. And there was that awful Yashica with "digital film" (https://petapixel.com/2018/10/22/a-review-and-teardown-of-the-st-yashica-y35-camera/).

The ghost of Bauhaus is spinning in its grave...!

The Leica M is only one product line in Leica Photo's portfolio of cameras, lenses, and accessories. And likely the least relevant to the "innovation edge" of the company.

G

tightsqueez
10-25-2018, 17:52
This is a toy, not a camera.

Leica began as a truly innovative company that led through technology and design. They were the epitome of modernity, with a simplicity of form that followed function. There was nothing excessive about a Leica camera; nothing unneeded, no frills, no frippery.

Today, Leica sells nostalgia and imitation. Its no longer interested in function or photography, only in parting rich people from their money with fakery. Pretending to not have a screen (but still needing one - thus the Heath Robinson phone app). Pretending to have a film-cocking lever. Pretending this is what using film is like.

I'd call it a joke. But it's not funny. Just sad.

Leica isn't the only company doing this - it seems to be a growing trend. Someone mentioned motorcycles earlier - the modern Triumph Bonneville is a pathetic pastiche with its fake carbs. And there was that awful Yashica with "digital film" (https://petapixel.com/2018/10/22/a-review-and-teardown-of-the-st-yashica-y35-camera/).

The ghost of Bauhaus is spinning in its grave...!

Couldn’t have said it better!

airfrogusmc
10-25-2018, 18:02
This is a toy, not a camera.

Leica began as a truly innovative company that led through technology and design. They were the epitome of modernity, with a simplicity of form that followed function. There was nothing excessive about a Leica camera; nothing unneeded, no frills, no frippery.

Today, Leica sells nostalgia and imitation. It's no longer interested in function or photography, only in parting rich people from their money with fakery. Pretending to not have a screen (but still needing one - thus the Heath Robinson phone app). Pretending to have a film-cocking lever. Pretending this is what using film is like.

I'd call it a joke. But it's not funny. Just sad.

Leica isn't the only company doing this - it seems to be a growing trend. Someone mentioned motorcycles earlier - the modern Triumph Bonneville is a pathetic pastiche with its fake carbs. And there was that awful Yashica with "digital film" (https://petapixel.com/2018/10/22/a-review-and-teardown-of-the-st-yashica-y35-camera/).

The ghost of Bauhaus is spinning in its grave...!

I think Leica, once past the very early days, was never leading with technology especially when compared to Nikanon. How long did Nikanon have meters in their cameras. Leica is still not auto focus THANK GOD. Leica as they are now are making cameras that no one else makes, that are for photographers not gadget hounds. I have no desire to have one of these cameras but I do have an M 10 and it is the finest 135 digital camera I have shot with and I have shot with and owned a fair amount of digital cameras. Plus how much of all the technology gets in the way. For me most of it. That's why I prefer Leica M.

I am not rich. I am a full time professional photographer and have been for over 3 decades. I shoot with Leica M digital because it matches the way I see and work period. I never liked the gadget heavy cameras from the big two. As I said if this camera like many collectors items Leica makes helps keep them financially sound so they can make cameras like the M 262 MD, M Monochrom and M 10 then I say rock on. At least these are cameras that no one else is making and gives me a choice other than all the one size fits all cameras that are everywhere already.