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bayernfan
05-29-2018, 17:48
https://leicarumors.com/2018/05/28/new-leica-mirrorless-camera-to-be-announced-in-june-leica-c-m.aspx/

thoughts? speculations?

Ko.Fe.
05-29-2018, 18:37
Crappy-Mirrorless.

Ronald M
05-29-2018, 21:32
Crappy-Mirrorless.

vote with your wallet like me

Huss
05-30-2018, 00:27
Crappy-Mirrorless.


"The new full frame camera will be based on a new sensor with outstanding low light high dynamic range capabilities"

If the EVF is better than the one in the CL, and the price is less (much less) than the M10, then Leica will have a winner.

lynnb
05-30-2018, 00:29
The new full frame camera will be based on a new sensor with outstanding low light high dynamic range capabilities
Technology obsolescence. The sooner they get to "good enough" the better. Maybe this will be it.

Michael Markey
05-30-2018, 00:38
If the EVF is better than the one in the CL, and the price is less (much less) than the M10, then Leica will have a winner.

Yes …. they finally seem to be heading in the right direction for the market.

bayernfan
05-30-2018, 07:33
i find the use of M lenses through an EVF to be a sluggish procedure and uninspiring overall. through the traditional optical viewfinder, the rangefinder patch is unobtrusive and immediately available. seeing things outside the framelines is also a huge perk. these are quintessential M traits.

if leica can create an incredibly novel hybrid viewfinder that retains these features, i'll be interested.

otherwise, why not just create an interchangeable lens Q with an L mount? autofocus lenses that also have true manual-focus, a detailed focus scale, and hard-stops for those of us that like to zone focus.

bayernfan
05-30-2018, 07:39
Technology obsolescence. The sooner they get to "good enough" the better. Maybe this will be it.

i think several brands have been at "good enough" for quite some time. for example, the Canon 5D2 from 9 years ago is capable of producing fantastic images by 2018 standards.

i also consider the M240 to be a "good enough" camera. the functionality and image quality are excellent. it's a bit too chunky in the hand, so the M10 finally got that right.

brennanphotoguy
05-30-2018, 07:49
i think several brands have been at "good enough" for quite some time. for example, the Canon 5D2 from 9 years ago is capable of producing fantastic images by 2018 standards.

i also consider the M240 to be a "good enough" camera. the functionality and image quality are excellent. it's a bit too chunky in the hand, so the M10 finally got that right.

Agree 100%. I think if they created a Q with L mount and smaller lenses it would be a big hit.

FrozenInTime
05-30-2018, 08:18
I would be interested.
At the weekend I lost many images as I did not notice the polarizing filter I put on the 75mm summicron , to help cut through the haze, had somehow obtained a grease film all over the inner facing surface. The contrast was so low the results look like they are from a plastic holga lens.
With close up wide angle framing, longer lenses and polarizing filters - the rangefinder is not best : but those tiny lenses are all I would want to carrry.

ptpdprinter
05-30-2018, 09:15
i find the use of M lenses through an EVF to be a sluggish procedure and uninspiring overall.
I am not very impressed with adapted lenses on mirrorless cameras in general. Focusing for me is too iffy to feel confident. And focus peaking is sort of dodgy. I tend to think it only works because DOF covers focus errors. Maybe with the SL with its best in class viewfinder it is different. Or maybe the next round of Sonys with its new UXGA EVF will be the ones to use. If Leica wants this new mirrorless camera to be successful, it needs to do something different with AF lenses. The SL lenses are gargantuan and hideously expensive.

DougFord
05-30-2018, 12:52
This should be a very interesting effort from Leica.
The attempted bifurcation of the M product line. What the heck is this thing going to look like?? Presumably there will be 'rangefinder' design cues, more than just the placement of the EVF. Egad, an M type thang with an integrated grip?? There'll be riots! lol
Large autofocus (SL) lenses on an M sized body doesn't make sense.
...spitballing... Didn't Nikon place the autofocus motor inside of one of their cameras? It could also be used, via an adapter, to autofocus m lenses.
Anyway, should be interesting to see what Leica/Panasonic has come up with this time, given the design parameters.

aizan
05-30-2018, 13:05
i’d prefer an m10 where they replaced the reverse galilean viewfinder with an evf, articulated the lcd, and added ibis. basically an improved fuji x-e3.

jsrockit
05-30-2018, 13:05
Crappy-Mirrorless.

I would think it'll be closer to a an over-priced, but brilliant mirrorless camera than crappy. BUT I'm not biased against mirrorless.

bayernfan
05-30-2018, 13:25
i’d prefer an m10 where they replaced the reverse galilean viewfinder with an evf, articulated the lcd, and added ibis. basically an improved fuji x-e3.

no, no, and no. :D

Axel
05-30-2018, 13:36
i’d prefer an m10 where they replaced the reverse galilean viewfinder with an evf, articulated the lcd, and added ibis. basically an improved fuji x-e3.

You can buy that from Sony since several years and use any (M) lens you want.

I think a new Leica has to be more than a metoo-mirrorless. Although it sems to be a fullframe. Let´s see what is coming here ;)

jsrockit
05-30-2018, 13:38
You can buy that from Sony since several years and use any (M) lens you want.


Really, Sony has an M10 shaped mirrorless camera?

Huss
05-30-2018, 13:40
You can buy that from Sony since several years and use any (M) lens you want.


As long as you are not picky about image quality as Sony uses much thicker sensor cover glass than Leica.

splitimageview
05-30-2018, 13:50
After my Q experience I will never buy a digital Leica.

santino
05-30-2018, 14:06
Nikon and Canon will release a full frame mirrorless too.. its getting interesting.

Axel
05-30-2018, 14:24
Really, Sony has an M10 shaped mirrorless camera?
Smaller and lighter! :D

MCTuomey
05-30-2018, 14:32
i’d prefer an m10 where they replaced the reverse galilean viewfinder with an evf, articulated the lcd, and added ibis. basically an improved fuji x-e3.

yes, yes, and yes :D well, okay. i could do without ibis.

After my Q experience I will never buy a digital Leica.

After my Q experience I would buy a 50mm version in a heartbeat. :D

I am not very impressed with adapted lenses on mirrorless cameras in general. Focusing for me is too iffy to feel confident. And focus peaking is sort of dodgy.

My experience with M-system 35mm through 75mm lenses on the new CL is positive. Higher in-focus rates at close-to-mid distance wide open (f/1.4 to f/2) with the CL versus rangefinder. I feel the focus peaking implementation on the CL is quite good, whereas the FP on my Fuji X bodies and the Sony A bodies I've tried made me unhappy. Generally, focus peaking for me works best for normal to tele length lenses shooting wide open or nearly so. Focus peaking with wide lenses stopped down is frustrating. Better to use zone or hyperfocal focus methods with wides, turning off FP.

ptpdprinter
05-30-2018, 14:39
After my Q experience I would buy a 50mm version in a heartbeat. :D
With the 50mm SL lens on it?

Dogman
05-30-2018, 14:43
An M body with AF sounds wonderful to me. Now if they could just figure out how to put an OVF in with that EVF. They could call it a "hybrid" and....:eek:

Oh. Never mind.

MCTuomey
05-30-2018, 14:54
With the 50mm SL lens on it?

No, no, no - that thing is a beast and priced beyond me anyway. My wish is for a Q II with a fixed compact 50, say f/1.7 or f/1.8, kind of a twin to the Lux 28/1.7 on the current Q.

ptpdprinter
05-30-2018, 15:06
No, no, no - that thing is a beast and priced beyond me anyway. My wish is for a Q II with a fixed compact 50, say f/1.7 or f/1.8, kind of a twin to the Lux 28/1.7 on the current Q.
Then Leica has some work to do.

MCTuomey
05-30-2018, 15:09
Then Leica has some work to do.

Exactly right. And why for me it's nothing but a wish. I'm old. I am fond of those fixed lens RFs from 40+ years ago. Still have one. Twin Q cameras, one 28 and one 50, and I'm real good for a whole lot of stuff I shoot. From the Q wide open in New Orleans:

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/785/39189192130_94aede331f_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/22H1Ruo)
20180323-150-web (https://flic.kr/p/22H1Ruo) by Mike Tuomey (https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/), on Flickr

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4788/40289394134_82df8d6700_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/24oeFds)
20180323-097-web (https://flic.kr/p/24oeFds) by Mike Tuomey (https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/), on Flickr

aizan
05-30-2018, 16:12
As long as you are not picky about image quality as Sony uses much thicker sensor cover glass than Leica.

bingo. sony is not interested in meeting the requirements of rangefinder lenses.

a more compact l-mount body that has a rangefinder-style evf and a range of smaller lenses would be nice, but it'll never be quite as nice as a similar m-mount body.

Dunk
05-30-2018, 17:40
Agree 100%. I think if they created a Q with L mount and smaller lenses it would be a big hit.

Not according to Jono Slack … and he should know

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/285080-leica-cm-ml-new-leica-mirrorless-announcement/?p=3528463

dunk

Michael Markey
05-31-2018, 00:33
As long as you are not picky about image quality as Sony uses much thicker sensor cover glass than Leica.


Goodness …. I mustn`t be picky then. :)
I was shooting at a low light event with an A7 and ZM C Sonnar this week …. a friend had a 10 and a Noct.
The A7 did more than ok.

I`d be interested in seeing what Leica come up with though with this new model.

MCTuomey
05-31-2018, 03:47
Goodness …. I mustn`t be picky then. :)
I was shooting at a low light event with an A7 and ZM C Sonnar this week …. a friend had a 10 and a Noct.
The A7 did more than ok.

I`d be interested in seeing what Leica come up with though with this new model.

Nice combo, A7 and ZM Sonnar. How did you set up the Sony's EVF for manual focus? Work well for you?

It's the wide lenses that generally have IQ problems due to the thicker sensor cover glass, and more in the corners than center, I've read. Depending on subject, may not be an issue.

Dunk
05-31-2018, 03:54
Not according to Jono Slack … and he should know

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/285080-leica-cm-ml-new-leica-mirrorless-announcement/?p=3528463

dunk



… and more of Jono's wisdom

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/285080-leica-cm-ml-new-leica-mirrorless-announcement/?p=3528909

dunk

brennanphotoguy
05-31-2018, 05:54
I don't know who Jono Slack is and why he's relevant to this conversation. It looks like another old guy speculating behind a computer screen.

robert blu
05-31-2018, 06:19
Just a couple of personal notes:

1st: I love my M10
2nd: no more gear budget available :D

robert

PS: but nice and interesting to see Leica active, let's see what comes, as already someone said hopefully not a "see too" camera

swatch
05-31-2018, 06:37
digital G2 ( Contax ) will be perfect !

derleicaman
05-31-2018, 06:55
I don't know who Jono Slack is and why he's relevant to this conversation. It looks like another old guy speculating behind a computer screen.

Jono is a beta tester for Leica and very well connected at Leica
He is well respected in the Leica world, and given his credentials, what he has to say is more than relevant to this conversation

brennanphotoguy
06-01-2018, 04:58
Jono is a beta tester for Leica and very well connected at Leica
He is well respected in the Leica world, and given his credentials, what he has to say is more than relevant to this conversation

I’m a beta tester for Apple and have friends that work at the Apple store and I don’t get invited to iOS developement meetings. My point being, he is a beta tester. He is not a market analyst for them. He tests equipment for them that THEY think will do well.

aizan
06-01-2018, 07:48
is anyone else hoping that the c-m turns out to be a beautiful little bar of soap like the original cm? it could be the new contax t3. it could be what the x should have been: a full frame sensor compact with a 35mm f/2.8 fully retractable lens, fixed evf, sleek design. forget the interchangeable lens stuff!

karateisland
06-01-2018, 07:59
is anyone else hoping that the c-m turns out to be a beautiful little bar of soap like the original cm? it could be the new contax t3. it could be what the x should have been: a full frame sensor compact with a 35mm f/2.8 fully retractable lens, fixed evf, sleek design. forget the interchangeable lens stuff!

I would throw my money at Leica so fast for this camera.

bayernfan
06-01-2018, 08:05
I would throw my money at Leica so fast for this camera.

i'd throw it harder and faster if it shot film.

mod2001
06-01-2018, 08:21
i'd throw it harder and faster if it shot film.

I did it and bought a Contax T3 several years ago ;)


Jürgen

nightfly
06-01-2018, 08:21
Throw away:

https://www.ebay.com/p/Leica-CM-35mm-Point-Shoot-Film-Camera/52119999

i'd throw it harder and faster if it shot film.

Ko.Fe.
06-01-2018, 08:55
I would think it'll be closer to a an over-priced, but brilliant mirrorless camera than crappy. BUT I'm not biased against mirrorless.

Me ethier, my M-E is mirrorless. And I think this Leica trying to catch up with what others have done and way better than Leica always late and not latest sensors game needs to be steered to completelly different direction.

Do optical VF, RF on KMZ, get Barnack sized bodies made elsewhere, stuff them with Panasonic internals. And those must be fife axis, dust removal MFT sensors. And collaborate with 7A to use thier lenses for MFT.
Sell it as Zorki, Seagull and Barnack.

So, I'm not against mirrorless but supporting it as more viable option to build modem, Barnack sized digital RF. Hybrid like X100 or X pro or just optical RF and touch screen reversable like on Pen.

Out to Lunch
06-01-2018, 09:26
Ko.Fe...a wonderful and entirely incomprehensible response.

jsrockit
06-02-2018, 07:49
Smaller and lighter! :D

But DSLR shaped...

jsrockit
06-02-2018, 07:51
So, I'm not against mirrorless but supporting it as more viable option to build modem, Barnack sized digital RF. Hybrid like X100 or X pro or just optical RF and touch screen reversable like on Pen.

I understand now... I think they made the barrack with the CL. Though I get that you want an optical finder, the finders in Leica's mirrorless cameras are current and pretty nice. I agree though, I would like to have what you are describing.

ptpdprinter
06-02-2018, 08:36
I understand now... I think they made the barrack with the CL. Though I get that you want an optical finder, the finders in Leica's mirrorless cameras are current and pretty nice. I agree though, I would like to have what you are describing.
I think the Leica CL marketing gurus even said that Barnack would have chosen APS-C. So a new FF camera won't qualify as a modern Barnack. Unless they want to rewrite history again.

Axel
06-02-2018, 10:42
But DSLR shaped...

It depends. In hand and in use it feels more like using a rangefinder.
Size matters ;)
And no ugly mirroraction. Quiet, quick, handy...
Get me right - that shouldn´t be a Sony prologue. I think there are a few things
that Leica can do to create their own mirrorless fullframe as just they do it.

rfaspen
06-02-2018, 12:57
M-mount. Full frame. I will listen further.

I've learned to avoid speculating about rumored Leica products. A fair amount of the time, they're a little disappointing for me (for my personal wants/needs).

DougFord
06-11-2018, 16:45
An M optics centric device, including an M spec'd sensor with the autofocus motor for the lens located inside the camera body.
Reissue existing M glass optic formulas in a new container with an L mount. They would need to modify the design of the L mount on the CM to accommodate the mechanical linkage necessary to drive the autofocus. This mechanical interface would have nothing in common with existing M mount lenses.
The upshot? Lightning quick autofocusing M optics on a fully electronic M centric device.
An adapter for manual focusing existing m optics. Override of the internal focus motor when existing L mount lenses are attached.
Gimme a minute and I'll come up with something else that Leica will never produce. lol

Godfrey
06-11-2018, 18:18
If it's not what I want, I expect I'll have a CL soon. I want a CL body with a FF sensor, period. Don't care about AF, don't care about much other than the body. I want this body for specific uses, since I've now shipped my SL system off to be sold.

What they make ... Three more days and speculation will be at an end. :D

G

Emile de Leon
06-11-2018, 18:38
All the anticipation...then...zzzz....it wasn't want we wanted after all...zzzz..

ptpdprinter
06-15-2018, 14:40
Looks like the CM was just a rumor. Instead, Leica introduced a rebranded Panasonic Lumix DC-ZS200 in gold at a 30% premium for the fashion accessory set.

bayernfan
06-15-2018, 14:45
Looks like the CM was just a rumor. Instead, Leica introduced a rebranded Panasonic Lumix DC-ZS200 in gold for the fashion accessory set.

i think something is in the pipeline, perhaps something along the lines of an interchangeable mount Q. enjoy the Zagato in the meantime!