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thawkins
09-25-2017, 15:02
I am interested in adding a digital rangefinder to my fleet. What are the members experiences with the Fuji X100 series cameras? I want a body with interchangeable lens.

Chris101
09-25-2017, 15:25
I am interested in adding a digital rangefinder to my fleet. What are the members experiences with the Fuji X100 series cameras? I want a body with interchangeable lens.

The x100 is neither a rangefinder, nor does it have interchangable lenses. The viewfinder is a hybrid electronic/optical that simulates a rangefinder - it's very accurate, and fast. The lens is a 23mm that is permanently attached to the body.

xayraa33
09-25-2017, 15:41
If you do not want to go the Leica route, the Epson R-D1 is a bit long in the tooth but still a viable digital RF camera.


https://www.dpreview.com/articles/1924025521/epsonrd1


Or you can wait a bit longer as I surmise we are at the cusp of many new non- Leica digital type EVF cameras with native M mount models from many different maker that will knock your socks off without paying a Leica price new or used,

ptpdprinter
09-25-2017, 15:57
Or you can wait a bit longer as I surmise we are at the cusp of many new non- Leica digital type EVF cameras with native M mount models from many different maker that will knock your socks off without paying a Leica price new or used,
What leads you to that surmise.

xayraa33
09-25-2017, 16:12
What leads you to that surmise.

Just the time is right and full frame sensor and EVF technology is getting cheaper to manufacture and China is becoming a big player in the photo gear and consumer electronics industry.

Add to that the recent cryptic announcement of the possible Leica-Zenit collaboration and the rebirth of a yet to be seen digital Yashica Electro type camera.

We had the Epson R-D1 many years ago and that can be developed into a full frame EVF camera, plus a market exists for such a machine for those without deep pockets for pricey Leicas new or used, that have a slew of M mount and LTM mount lenses from different eras and different makers, all waiting to be used on digital non Leica cameras without bulky adaptors on the make do Sony A7.

Ko.Fe.
09-25-2017, 16:50
...China is becoming a big player in the photo gear ....
Add to that the recent cryptic announcement of the possible Leica-Zenit collaboration and the rebirth of a yet to be seen digital Yashica Electro type camera.
...


I'm wishing to China to have third revolution. Cultural and industrial already happened. Now "respect intellectual rights" revolution in China needs to happen before it play big role.
It was local Canadian inventor who told on local radio couple months ago what as of now you only have few months to make profit before it is taken as pirate copies in China.
http://www.digitalgrog.com.au/gadgets/chinas-infamous-world-class-car-fakes/


And Yashica-Zenit-Leica is nothing but re-branding at its best talks so far, if not empty myths.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1265065-REG/kyocera_yashica_yac_301_full_hd_1080p.html

xayraa33
09-25-2017, 17:19
I'm wishing to China to have third revolution. Cultural and industrial already happened. Now "respect intellectual rights" revolution in China needs to happen before it play big role.
It was local Canadian inventor who told on local radio couple months ago what as of now you only have few months to make profit before it is taken as pirate copies in China.
http://www.digitalgrog.com.au/gadgets/chinas-infamous-world-class-car-fakes/


And Yashica-Zenit-Leica is nothing but re-branding at its best talks so far, if not empty myths.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1265065-REG/kyocera_yashica_yac_301_full_hd_1080p.html


The big industrial conglomerates ( and small conglomerates) whether they are originally European, American or Japanese are already manufacturing in China in a big way , whether its Apple, Ford, GM, Toyota, Honda, Fender, Vox, Black and Decker, Makita, Toshiba etc and that includes exposing their intellectual property to the Chinese. Cheap labour and a diligent work force and lax environmental laws are a big draw for more profit. There are no borders for multinational corporations.

"Yashica-Zenit-Leica is nothing but re-branding at its best talks so far, "

We don't know if it is all pure talk or just rebranding, I say where there is smoke there is fire, we will wait and we will see, October is not far off for the Yashica thing to be introduced to the market and it looks to be more than a cell phone attachment.

Ko.Fe.
09-25-2017, 19:47
You forgot to add to Yashica-Zenit something more real. How was this thing for real called. :confused: It supposed to be on sale by now. :bang:
Digital rangefinder thing. Chronos? Man, this thing was on fire here and ... no even smoke by now...

xayraa33
09-26-2017, 04:04
You forgot to add to Yashica-Zenit something more real. How was this thing for real called. :confused: It supposed to be on sale by now. :bang:
Digital rangefinder thing. Chronos? Man, this thing was on fire here and ... no even smoke by now...

The Konost might be vapour ware, as its supposed development has been going on for years if one believes their infrequent bulletins and announcements. The Leica/Zenit thing is a very recent and might have serious validity.

The re-birth of the Yashica is very possible, as they have the Jebsen Group financial house in Hong Kong as surety and would want to see a return on their investment, they are not fly-by-nights by any means (established 1895).

Plus don't yet count out the big players like Canikon which I am sure would like to get a kick at the can and stifle Sony and Fuji in the pro quality Mirrorless and FF mirrorless digital cameras.

Time will tell.

nukecoke
09-26-2017, 04:16
Wait for the Yashica new camera that will be announced in October. Maybe it is a rangefinder, or at least X100 type of "rangefinder".

jaapv
09-26-2017, 05:09
Just the time is right and full frame sensor and EVF technology is getting cheaper to manufacture and China is becoming a big player in the photo gear and consumer electronics industry.

Add to that the recent cryptic announcement of the possible Leica-Zenit collaboration and the rebirth of a yet to be seen digital Yashica Electro type camera.

We had the Epson R-D1 many years ago and that can be developed into a full frame EVF camera, plus a market exists for such a machine for those without deep pockets for pricey Leicas new or used, that have a slew of M mount and LTM mount lenses from different eras and different makers, all waiting to be used on digital non Leica cameras without bulky adaptors on the make do Sony A7. Basically the Epson was a Bessa camera with the electronics and sensor of the Nikon D100 shoehorned inside. The only reason it could work was the crop factor of the sensor, thereby avoiding most of the incidence angle problems at the edges and corners.
I very much doubt whether it has any development potential, given that the donor cameras have been discontinued very long ago.

Paul T.
09-26-2017, 05:31
Wait for the Yashica new camera that will be announced in October. Maybe it is a rangefinder, or at least X100 type of "rangefinder".

The teaser vid suggests it's either a phone lens adapter, or (less likely) an Olympus Air-style device, ie a sensor which uses a phone screen as viewfinder.

Check the video at 13 seconds, you can see the device quite clearly. Not a rangefinder.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=13&v=8i6g55QaN54

nukecoke
09-26-2017, 05:41
The teaser vid suggests it's either a phone lens adapter, or (less likely) an Olympus Air-style device, ie a sensor which uses a phone screen as viewfinder.

Check the video at 13 seconds, you can see the device quite clearly. Not a rangefinder.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=13&v=8i6g55QaN54

Isn't that their already on sale clip on cellphone camera lens? (It's not even a camera.)
https://www.yashica.com/ourglory
I don't think the teaser is meant to advertise that product.

The important part of the teaser is that, the camera held in the model's hands at 00:07 is not an old Yashica camera.

xayraa33
09-26-2017, 05:45
The teaser vid suggests it's either a phone lens adapter, or (less likely) an Olympus Air-style device, ie a sensor which uses a phone screen as viewfinder.

Check the video at 13 seconds, you can see the device quite clearly. Not a rangefinder.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=13&v=8i6g55QaN54

You are missing the juiciest part though, at .07 seconds in the video the actress is holding a camera that is retro styled like the old film shooting Yashica Electro but it is clearly not the old film shooting Yashica Electro camera but some new concoction.

Possibly a digital fixed lens camera on the lines of the Fuji X100f or even if wishful thinking is at play, an FF digital mirrorless camera with a native M mount.

nukecoke
09-26-2017, 05:50
You are missing the juiciest part though, at .07 seconds in the video the actress is holding a camera that is retro styled like the old film shooting Yashica Electro but it is clearly not the old film shooting Yashica Electro camera but some new concoction.

Possibly a digital fixed lens camera on the lines of the Fuji X100f or even if wishful thinking is at play, an FF digital mirrorless camera with a native M mount.

Now I realized why there is no zillions of discussions going on anywhere. I think most people just thought that is an old Yashica film camera they used in the teaser...

willie_901
09-26-2017, 06:08
Basically the Epson was a Bessa camera with the electronics and sensor of the Nikon D100 shoehorned inside. The only reason it could work was the crop factor of the sensor, thereby avoiding most of the incidence angle problems at the edges and corners.
I very much doubt whether it has any development potential, given that the donor cameras have been discontinued very long ago.

Exactly.




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willie_901
09-26-2017, 06:19
I am interested in adding a digital rangefinder to my fleet. What are the members experiences with the Fuji X100 series cameras? I want a body with interchangeable lens.

An expensive route to the rangefinder digital-camera experience would be the FUJIFILM X-Pro 1.


The OVF is similar to a RF (the optics are completely different though)
You can use a M lens adapter
Relatively inexpensive, compact Fujinon primes perform well
The technical IQ is acceptable for excellent color rendering up to ISO 800 (ISO 1600 was my limit for color) and monochrome rendering is practical up to ISO 3200
The build quality is very good
If you like the experience, there is an upgrade path (X-Pro 2)
If you don't like the experience, there is a decent demand for used X-Pro 1 bodies

xayraa33
09-26-2017, 06:20
Now I realized why there is no zillions of discussions going on anywhere. I think most people just thought that is an old Yashica film camera they used in the teaser...

Those hippish videos with that skinny actress were produced to be ambiguous to the casual observer versus to the keen eyed observer, may be to generate interest by controversy, like the replaced Paul McCartney meme, some see it, some don't but there is always the guaranteed argument happening amongst them.

As some publicist said, "any publicity is a good thing" and to complete the statement , "any way it is achieved".

Out to Lunch
09-26-2017, 06:27
Bill Hicks and George Carlin agree:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaD8y-CGhMw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFCMhSzeGuA

Axel
09-26-2017, 06:38
I am interested in adding a digital rangefinder to my fleet. What are the members experiences with the Fuji X100 series cameras? I want a body with interchangeable lens.

Besides the Epson R-D1 and the Leica M there is none.

Paul T.
09-26-2017, 07:36
You are missing the juiciest part ... it is clearly not the old film shooting Yashica Electro camera but some new concoction.

Possibly a digital fixed lens camera on the lines of the Fuji X100f or even if wishful thinking is at play, an FF digital mirrorless camera with a native M mount.

You could well be right, I thought it was just a mockup.

If it is an interchangeable mirrorless with M mount I will be very happy to be proven wrong, especially if it's cheaper than the Sony A7.

xayraa33
09-26-2017, 10:00
Basically the Epson was a Bessa camera with the electronics and sensor of the Nikon D100 shoehorned inside. The only reason it could work was the crop factor of the sensor, thereby avoiding most of the incidence angle problems at the edges and corners.
I very much doubt whether it has any development potential, given that the donor cameras have been discontinued very long ago.

If Nikon could resurrect the SP in 2005 ( from scratch. BTW), a camera that will be celebrating its original 60th birthday this week, Epson or Cosina or who ever wants to buy the rights to it can do a FF EVF version of the R D1

Maybe leave just 10% of the original in place or less for nostalgia value or instant retro . Sensor technology has improved in the last decade and we don't know whats up their sleeve and new players could have joined in by now even Chinese ones.

David Hughes
09-26-2017, 10:07
Every range finder and camera with a coupled range finder I have ever used involves a couple of images being merged. Do all these suggested cameras do that, apart from the M's and the Epson/Bessa?

Just asking as I am curious about what people call a range-finder these days...

Regards, David

xayraa33
09-26-2017, 10:12
Every range finder and camera with a coupled range finder I have ever used involves a couple of images being merged. Do all these suggested cameras do that, apart from the M's and the Epson/Bessa?

Just asking as I am curious about what people call a range-finder these days...

Regards, David

I think "rangefinder like" is the new catch phrase (RFL) is what is used in describing cameras like the Fuji X Pro 2 and the X100f.

That way they are not incorrect and on safe ground.

Axel
09-26-2017, 11:06
Every range finder and camera with a coupled range finder I have ever used involves a couple of images being merged. Do all these suggested cameras do that, apart from the M's and the Epson/Bessa?

Just asking as I am curious about what people call a range-finder these days...

Regards, David

Just such a thing that looks like a Leica or other oldschool stuff :D

Seems like it is more important what it looks like than what it does or is...

Pioneer
09-26-2017, 11:23
I say save your money and buy one of the newer Leica digital Ms if that is what you are looking for. It is really the only suitable candidate. The others are fine cameras but they are not rangefinders, just wannabes using hype, technology and styling to try and recreate the experience.

It is the only digital camera that I own, besides the Canon 5D, that I can work with for any length of time and not get frustrated.

If you can't bring yourself to cough up that kind of money then just use a film rangefinder and scan the results.

Of course, you may not really want a rangefinder at all and will be perfectly happy with the mirrorless options. A lot of people seem to like them.

Huss
09-26-2017, 13:14
Word on the street has it that the new Yashica will be a Yashicamat 124-D.
Yup, the world's first digital TLR.

(and then I wake up)

css9450
09-26-2017, 13:23
Word on the street has it that the new Yashica will be a Yashicamat 124-D.
Yup, the world's first digital TLR.


I'm still waiting for the world's first digital folding camera.

Lets go real minimal. Make it scale focusing!

Axel
09-26-2017, 13:24
...the world's first digital TLR...

Nope. Thats already present.
My Fuji X-M1 with Dislplay 90 degrees up :D

David Hughes
09-26-2017, 13:46
I think "rangefinder like" is the new catch phrase (RFL) is what is used in describing cameras like the Fuji X Pro 2 and the X100f.

That way they are not incorrect and on safe ground.

Hi,

My thoughts too, but they really mean "not an SLR" NSLR...

Regards, David

xayraa33
09-26-2017, 14:01
Hi,

My thoughts too, but they really mean "not an SLR" NSLR...

Regards, David

As someone just stated, they really mean styled like a classic M Leica.

So if it is a mirrorless digital camera that somewhat has the body line styling of a Leica M2 or M3 but with no real optical RF and a EVF or even no EVF, just back screen everything then they mistakenly call it an RF camera.

With that criteria my late parents early 1960s Anny 44 camera would be called an RF camera, which it was not, but it was styled like a mini Leica M3, and took 127 roll film.

jaapv
09-26-2017, 17:06
If Nikon could resurrect the SP in 2005 ( from scratch. BTW), a camera that will be celebrating its original 60th birthday this week, Epson or Cosina or who ever wants to buy the rights to it can do a FF EVF version of the R D1

Maybe leave just 10% of the original in place or less for nostalgia value or instant retro . Sensor technology has improved in the last decade and we don't know whats up their sleeve and new players could have joined in by now even Chinese ones.
I shudder at the cost. No only the R&D to resurrect the camera, the complete tooling up for a product that will only be small series, getting a sensor designer and maker to do a small-run RF suitable sensor (FYI, Leica orders tens of thousands dedicated sensors, at a cost - to Leica- of 1800 Euro each). At a conservative guess, such a camera would cost more than half as much, if not double, the price of an M10.
And being an EVF camera, there will be plenty of competition, like the Leica SL, the Sony R series, etc.

The Nikon SP of 2005 was a film camera, not a digital, and it was more expensive than a Leica M7...

xayraa33
09-26-2017, 18:17
I shudder at the cost. No only the R&D to resurrect the camera, the complete tooling up for a product that will only be small series, getting a sensor designer and maker to do a small-run RF suitable sensor (FYI, Leica orders tens of thousands dedicated sensors, at a cost - to Leica- of 1800 Euro each). At a conservative guess, such a camera would cost more than half as much, if not double, the price of an M10.
And being an EVF camera, there will be plenty of competition, like the Leica SL, the Sony R series, etc.

The Nikon SP of 2005 was a film camera, not a digital, and it was more expensive than a Leica M7...

Yes I know the 2005 SP was a film camera, and Nikon had to make that from scratch and nothing from the original was available not even a body part making die. That was a remarkable feat and it would never be a cheap camera as neither was the original in 1957.

Sensor technology would get cheaper with passing time, right now a Sony A7 body can be bought new for 900 dollars but it does not come with a native M mount like say the Epson R D1 did.

BillBingham2
09-26-2017, 19:03
Wait for the Yashica new camera that will be announced in October. Maybe it is a rangefinder, or at least X100 type of "rangefinder".

I'm hoping that it will be an optical viewfinder, nice fast lens, and simple controls (read limited). Yes the Fuji X100 finder is wonderful, but I'm ok with a simple optical viewfinder (with parallax correction please). I'd love to see it with a 1:1 view, but I fear it's too much of a stretch. October it's too far off.

B2 (;->

richardHaw
10-01-2017, 10:38
Seems like it is more important what it looks like than what it does or is...

a hipster :eek::eek::eek:

jaapv
10-01-2017, 16:12
Yes I know the 2005 SP was a film camera, and Nikon had to make that from scratch and nothing from the original was available not even a body part making die. That was a remarkable feat and it would never be a cheap camera as neither was the original in 1957.

Sensor technology would get cheaper with passing time, right now a Sony A7 body can be bought new for 900 dollars but it does not come with a native M mount like say the Epson R D1 did.
Nor does it come with a sensor that performs optimally with rangefinder lenses, especially legacy wideangle ones. A dedicated small-series sensor like on the M and SL would come at more than double the street price of the camera. Add a rangefinder, which costs about 1000 Euro to build, and the Leica M starts looking cheap... ;)

shawn
10-01-2017, 17:08
I'm hoping that it will be an optical viewfinder, nice fast lens, and simple controls (read limited). Yes the Fuji X100 finder is wonderful, but I'm ok with a simple optical viewfinder (with parallax correction please). I'd love to see it with a 1:1 view, but I fear it's too much of a stretch. October it's too far off.

B2 (;->

Looking at the camera in the video (and pausing) it doesn't look like it has an optical viewfinder. No light passing through it when it is sitting on the ledge. It also has a film advance lever and the rewind dial actually looks like it has a fold out handle. Of course this may be a total fake body, the model doesn't bring it to her eye the same way. One place looks like the finder is on the extreme left of the body, another place it looks centered.

My somewhat wacky prediction... a 35mm film camera with a smallish integrated digital camera using the window above the main lens as the digital camera and perhaps an EVF for framing/playback. Target the hipsters shooting film that also wants to quickly post to social media.


Shawn

jsrockit
10-01-2017, 17:47
I have a feeling many people are going to be very disappointed by this Yashica... even if it looks like the camera at the 7 second mark. No offense Paul T, but why would Yashica offer a camera with a M mount?

shawn
10-01-2017, 17:51
I have a feeling many people are going to be very disappointed by this Yashica... even if it looks like the camera at the 7 second mark. No offense Paul T, but why would Yashica offer a camera with a M mount?

Agreed, there is no sort of lens release mechanism on the camera in the video.

Shawn

Paul T.
10-02-2017, 06:01
I have a feeling many people are going to be very disappointed by this Yashica... even if it looks like the camera at the 7 second mark. No offense Paul T, but why would Yashica offer a camera with a M mount?

No offense. I think it's unlikely which is why I said, I'd love it if I were wrong.

I can't see the new purchasers of the name tooling up for a full-on X100-style digital camera.

Lee Rust
10-11-2017, 22:46
The new "Yashica" seems to be scratching the same photographic itch as the Leica M-D 262, but at 1/36 the price. It even has a thumb winder like the R-D1. Naturally, MANY features and functions had to be minimized or omitted to meet the price point.

It might be easy to ridicule this camera, but the modular electronics of the pre-programmed digifilms eliminate the need for any complicated control interfaces other than shutter speed, shutter release and frame advance.

https://petapixel.com/2017/10/10/yashica-y35-digifilm-camera-faux-film-rolls/

jaapv
10-11-2017, 23:42
That is a weird itch for sure. I can not imagine anybody aspiring to a Leica M-D 262 considering this camera for one second.
It is a fun novelty toy for sure, but it is in the same class as the Leica Sofort.