PDA

View Full Version : I will avoid Leica NJ from here on...


sepiareverb
07-11-2017, 18:30
I understand this is a first world problem, but one that some here might also needlessly suffer through, so I post this in hopes that everyone else who might consider this type of thing has a smoother go of it.

I have had a black chrome MP al a carte that I got second hand many years ago from a member here. A lovely camera, but it had the full engraving top-plate which I've had comments on from people while out shooting, that I don't get with another MP with no engraving, so I often wondered about having it changed. When the 'Re-Design" program came about I thought more about this. Decided I would really like to have the camera get the MA top-plate, with no engraving, but black chrome, my preferred finish. A regular factory part, so likely easy I though. I could re-use all the other parts from the camera, and have the red infill paint on the shutter speed dial replaced with the yellow/orange like on an M6/7 as I have a hard time seeing the red. Might as well get the Monochrom type vulcanite since the vulcanite has to be changed anyway.

My timeline follows. Note that I had a Logic Board failure of my MacBook Pro during this process, so not all emails are included below.

Email to a contact at Leica NJ 7/21/16 no reply.

Email to same contact at Leica NJ 8/15 no reply

Email to a contact of a friend at Leica Solms 9/3 on vacation auto reply.

she replied 9/19.

I replied to her 9/19 asking her to get in touch w/NJ & she replied saying she would have NJ contact me.

Leica NJ finally emails me 9/19

I Replied 9/19 with further details, they returned my email the same day.

Camera shipped 9/22/16 to NJ (two months after contacting NJ myself, three days after having Solms contact NJ)

Camera arrived in NJ 9/26

Phone call from NJ, entering camera into system 10/5, needed street address ( I use a P.O. Box for most correspondence and shipping) I gave them my street address.

11/4/16: Phone call from NJ, estimate sent was wrong, top cover price was quoted at 10% of actual cost, amended estimate being sent.

11/5 I approved the updated estimate.

12/15 checked NJ about a return date via email. "Techs are gone for the day but I will check tomorrow and get back to you." No further reply.

Gap in my email record due to Logic Board failure.

2/3/17 Camera arrives back - with wrong covering and red infill paint. I was told the M6/7 yellow/orange infill paint on the shutter speed dial was a special order item in the original estimate, and I agreed to pay for it. The camera came back with the shutter speed dial unchanged from when I sent it in. It also came with MP type covering, not the covering as used on the M9/Monochrom I had requested and paid for.

2/7 email to Beth - re problems with paint and covering

3/18/17 Camera ships back to NJ for correct paint and covering.

5/30/17 spoke w/ NJ. Got new work # 10042543 should hear back about the paint at the end of the week.

6/8/17 left voicemail with NJ about eta on the paint.

6/12/17 no reply to 6/8 call - emailed about eta on the paint.

6/16/17 No reply to email. - called. Paint is in Germany. Tech is going to Germany and will bring it back with him, paint the camera, let the paint dry and then ship it here. Should be 2 weeks.

6/28/17 Called. Camera will ship tomorrow, the paint is drying now.

7/5/17 Called at 1:50. System is down nothing can be looked up. Might be on the ship cart now. Called back at 3:15, left a voicemail. Called back at 4:14. No tracking info available, everyone is gone for the day. Person I spoke to (the only one who genuinely seems to try) will check first thing tomorrow and call me back.

7/6/17 Called. Camera will ship Monday. Did not know why, it was something to do with the paint.

7/10/17 Called at 10:30. “Yes, it will ship today.”

7/10/17 Got an email at 2:30 - a tracking number!

7/11/17 The camera arrives home via UPS, finally as I had ordered it to be.

My advice, and my practice from here on is to send my equipment directly to Wetzlar for any work required that DAG, Sherry or Gerry Smith cannot do. I have had enough of NJ. The worst possible customer service imaginable.

Robert Lai
07-11-2017, 18:37
Sorry to hear about your experience. My experiences with them have been good.

Just curious. What were the nature of the comments about the top script on your camera? I've never had any comments on my Leicas. However, the unmetered ones have an MR-4 meter on top, blocking the script. My M7 has a plain top.

sepiareverb
07-11-2017, 18:44
Just people saying "Oh, that's a Leica?" and turning their observation into a conversation when I want to be left alone. I don't make pictures of people, and generally keep to myself, so the engagement is an intrusion. I don't get anywhere near the same number of interruptions when shooting with other M bodies. The Rollei also gets comments, but usually only looks and nods instead of attempts at some long, drawn out conversation. I don't like to be rude, but I really hate getting pestered. I generally have ended up being ruder than I want to be to get away and back to work. No more!

aizan
07-11-2017, 19:01
oh geez, let's hope the new top cover actually attracts less attention.

farlymac
07-11-2017, 19:17
Repair places are always just one lost screw from going completely under. I've found that communicating with just one person helps the most, that way you don't get the issues where the person you talked to today has no idea how to tell the person you'll talk to tomorrow what your request was.

I sent my R lens to Leica NJ because it's likely the only place in the US that would have the parts for it. I originally talked to Sandra, but since then have only used e-mail as I find it hard to understand her over the phone (my problem, not hers). Always a quick reply, and they had an estimate back to me within a couple of days after they received the lens.

Sure, it's taken a while for them to get around to it, but then maybe they had to send out for parts. I'm not worried, or in a rush for it. I've plenty of other cameras to keep me busy.

It might have been good for you, Bob, to have been able to talk to one of the techs that would be doing the work, so that they would understand exactly what it was you wanted done, and to find out if it was feasible. The front desk folks can always promise things, but then the workers get the order, and things start hitting the fan.

I once had a guy come running from across a field because he thought I had a Leica, only to find out it was a Zorki. If the light is good, I usually will engage them in some conversation about the merits of whatever camera I am using. But if the light's shifting a bit, or the subject is on the move, I'll just take photos until they get the hint that I've got other things on my mind.

Good luck with your camera remodeling.

PF

p.giannakis
07-11-2017, 23:00
Sorry to hear about it. I had plenty of good experiences with various camera repairers and a horrendous one with a reputable repairer (not Leica NJ) and that was enough for me to make me suspicious each time I sent a camera for repair. It is easy sometimes to overlook the important job these people do..

mich rassena
07-12-2017, 07:58
That's some of the slowest service I've heard of. I hope you were able to get a tremendous discount for your trouble.

Darthfeeble
07-12-2017, 08:32
Is NJ the only factory repair place in America? If so, how many Leicas do you think are up for repair on any given day? Of those the purchased new and under warrantee would probably take precedence over cosmetic mods to a used piece I would think. That said, the communication could have been better.

Saul
07-12-2017, 08:45
Just people saying "Oh, that's a Leica?" and turning their observation into a conversation when I want to be left alone. I don't make pictures of people, and generally keep to myself, so the engagement is an intrusion. I don't get anywhere near the same number of interruptions when shooting with other M bodies. The Rollei also gets comments, but usually only looks and nods instead of attempts at some long, drawn out conversation. I don't like to be rude, but I really hate getting pestered. I generally have ended up being ruder than I want to be to get away and back to work. No more!

Once they discover the change you made you're in for a whole other conversation! :D

splitimageview
07-12-2017, 09:03
Sent a Leica Q to NJ for service, they quoted 3 weeks, it took 7 months. And this was with one of their top dealers pushing them. One would think dealer leverage would make a difference, but it doesn't. I could never shoot with Leica professionally as it would require too much cash outlay for spare bodies in the event of a needed repair.

Leica has spent money on a fancy HQ but hasn't put any effort into updating their poor service turnaround. For a premium brand this is unfortunate.

finguanzo
07-12-2017, 09:12
Yeah, I had a bad experience with NJ myself. loose 28mm elmarit, 1 day out of warranty, not covered.... and 6 months to tighten.

tunalegs
07-12-2017, 10:36
Where else would you have sent it for that sort of work?
The wait time is pretty ridiculous, but I'm not sure there is much choice when it comes to having stuff like that done.

taemo
07-12-2017, 13:30
sorry to hear about another Leica NJ horror story.

Where else would you have sent it for that sort of work?
The wait time is pretty ridiculous, but I'm not sure there is much choice when it comes to having stuff like that done.

that's what scares me from getting another Leica to be honest.
as much as I want to get another digital M, the horror stories that I've experienced from Leica NJ and from others is preventing me from getting another digital Leica.

sepiareverb
07-12-2017, 14:30
I would send any camera directly to Germany, through an intermediary if necessary. Leica NJ has proven impossible to deal with. They do not reply to emails, they do not reply to voicemail, unless you are lucky and someone actually answers their phone when you call you are SOL. Even then, I often got little to no explanation for how it could take so long.

I wrote to the contact in Wetzlar to complain about the process/timeline in NJ but have not heard back yet. Never any mention of a refund or partial one for being without the camera for about eight months. I may email to ask...

Huss
07-12-2017, 15:41
Leica has spent money on a fancy HQ but hasn't put any effort into updating their poor service turnaround. For a premium brand this is unfortunate.

It's because the majority of Leica owners are trinket collectors. Impressed by a fancy HQ. Not knowing if their cameras work or not, because they hardly use them.
Enthusiasts like us (and heaven forbid pros), that use Leicas to take pictures are a royal pain in the a$$ to Leica. Complaining about expensive cameras that do not work properly..

raid
07-12-2017, 15:59
I would send any camera directly to Germany, through an intermediary if necessary. Leica NJ has proven impossible to deal with. They do not reply to emails, they do not reply to voicemail, unless you are lucky and someone actually answers their phone when you call you are SOL. Even then, I often got little to no explanation for how it could take so long.

I wrote to the contact in Solms to complain about the process/timeline in NJ but have not heard back yet. Never any mention of a refund or partial one for being without the camera for about eight months. I may email to ask...

You may simply have been unlucky with your contacting Leica NJ. I call them easily, and they respond quickly. Maybe they respond well on some days but then they don't on other days. :bang:

Vince Lupo
07-12-2017, 16:14
I just got my Monochrom 246 and 50/1.4 Summilux back from them (sent them in together to be 'mated' to one another and to have everything checked out). Took about 3 weeks total. Warranty covered the 246, and I paid for service on the Summilux. I had no issues with their service (and generally have never had any issues with their service over the years), but I may possibly be more the exception than the rule.

ptpdprinter
07-12-2017, 16:18
There seems to be, at best, a lack of consistency in the service Leica NJ provides.

fireblade
07-12-2017, 16:23
Sent a Leica Q to NJ for service, they quoted 3 weeks, it took 7 months. .....

In today's day and age, that's just pathetic.

Rob-F
07-12-2017, 16:49
There seems to be, at best, a lack of consistency in the service Leica NJ provides.

One of our members recently reported that when they sent their M9 to Leica NJ for a sensor clean & check, Leica sent them a mailing label; pre-paid, I believe (not sure). So. I phoned to inquire about sending my M9. I was told they will only send the label if the Leica is under warranty. And I had to call twice, just to get that. On the first day, I phoned around what must have been their lunch time. They didn't respond to my voice mail message. So I called back the next day, and was told to just send it in, but no mailing label and nothing pre-paid.

So is that an example of inconsistency? Or just the fair policy?

jaapv
07-12-2017, 16:57
I have an official Leica Customer Service brochure in front of me right now, and amongst their services is listed: "Collecting your Leica product" However, it is a German brochure... :(

Maybe you should check the USA one.

jaapv
07-12-2017, 16:59
In today's day and age, that's just pathetic.In another day and age as well...

ptpdprinter
07-12-2017, 17:01
For goodness sake, it's going to take 24 weeks for a sensor replacement, how many extra weeks do you want to wait around for a prepaid shipping label? Oh, I forgot, you have a spare Leica or three so you are not really bothered by the delay.

ornate_wrasse
07-12-2017, 17:08
One of our members recently reported that when they sent their M9 to Leica NJ for a sensor clean & check, Leica sent them a mailing label; pre-paid, I believe (not sure). So. I phoned to inquire about sending my M9. I was told they will only send the label if the Leica is under warranty.

So is that an example of inconsistency? Or just the fair policy?

You are completely correct in that "one of our members" sent their M9 to Leica for a sensor clean & check and Leica sent a prepaid mailing label. I don't know if you're referring to me or not, but that was precisely my experience. I had called to ask about sending in my M9 to check the sensor, and after specifically asking if they could send a prepaid mailing label, they agreed and within 5 minutes, I received the mailing label attached to an email. To be clear, I mentioned that "a friend of mine" had been sent a mailing label and could they do the same for me.

My M9 was clearly not under warranty and, in fact, I had purchased it used.

It is definitely an example of inconsistency. My thoughts are that it ~may~ depend on who you talk to.

SteveHicks
07-12-2017, 17:37
My M 240 started having problems with the metering system. It was still under warranty, so I sent it in with a 35mm Summilux also within the warranty period.

They eventually fixed the camera and maintained the Summilux without charge, but is took several months. During that time, I called to check in on it ant he person that picked up the call said she could not tell me anything about the camera or lens. I tried several times and never found anyone who say when it would be done.

I travel a lot, so I asked for a tracking number when it shipped which I never received. Months after sending it in, is just showed up one day unannounced. If we had been on a trip, I don't know where it would have ended up.

Seems odd for service on a camera that is as expensive as the Leicas are to be so informal and unorganized.

I'll think twice about sending my Leica gear back to NJ.

SteveHicks
07-12-2017, 17:40
My M 240 started having problems with the metering system. It was still under warranty, so I sent it in with a 35mm Summilux also within the warranty period.

They eventually fixed the camera and maintained the Summilux without charge, but it took several months. During that time, I called to check in on it ant the person that picked up the call said she could not tell me anything about the camera or lens. I tried several times and never found anyone who say when it would be done.

I travel a lot, so I asked for a tracking number when it shipped which I never received. Months after sending it in, is just showed up one day unannounced. If we had been on a trip, I don't know where it would have ended up.

Seems odd for a service department for cameras that are as expensive as the Leicas are to be so informal and unorganized.

I'll think twice about sending my Leica gear back to NJ.

raid
07-12-2017, 17:42
You are completely correct in that "one of our members" sent their M9 to Leica for a sensor clean & check and Leica sent a prepaid mailing label. I don't know if you're referring to me or not, but that was precisely my experience. I had called to ask about sending in my M9 to check the sensor, and after specifically asking if they could send a prepaid mailing label, they agreed and within 5 minutes, I received the mailing label attached to an email. To be clear, I mentioned that "a friend of mine" had been sent a mailing label and could they do the same for me.

My M9 was clearly not under warranty and, in fact, I had purchased it used.

It is definitely an example of inconsistency. My thoughts are that it ~may~ depend on who you talk to.

I did the same a few days later.:D
I said "I heard from someone that she was sent a mailing label."

I asked for the mailing label and they said "no problem."
My M9 was not under warranty.

SteveHicks
07-12-2017, 17:44
Sorry folks,

I meant to edit this post and it showed up twice.

splitimageview
07-12-2017, 17:50
Anyone have exemplary service to report, or are the above posts typical?

benmacphoto
07-12-2017, 18:06
My experience with Leica NJ has been great, though it has just been for sourcing parts.
Calling them directly I was able to get some parts for a custom M I was building.
And recently they have sourced another part for another project.
I found calling them is best, though they were quick with emails as well.

sepiareverb
07-12-2017, 18:20
So inconsistency is the name of the game. I get that it is a small operation in NJ, but are they so inundated with voicemails and emails that they can't reply? And from my experience talking to folks there, the techs leave by 4. I guess that's because they have to travel to Germany to pick up parts.

I'd filled out the proper paperwork in September, but it was not till June that someone went to Germany to get the paint.

ornate_wrasse
07-12-2017, 19:08
I did the same a few days later.:D
I said "I heard from someone that she was sent a mailing label."


Raid,

That's funny :) Interesting to hear that you ended up saying the same thing that I did.

And, more importantly, it worked to get them to send you the prepaid mailing label!

raid
07-12-2017, 19:10
He was very nice on the phone, and he said not to worry about the mailing label. He tried to convince me that "old M9" cameras did not get faulty sensors, but then I told him that they had replaced the sensor in 2014. He the laughed and told me that in a few minutes he would email me the mailing label.

Thanks.

Rob-F
07-12-2017, 23:31
You are completely correct in that "one of our members" sent their M9 to Leica for a sensor clean & check and Leica sent a prepaid mailing label. I don't know if you're referring to me or not, but that was precisely my experience. I had called to ask about sending in my M9 to check the sensor, and after specifically asking if they could send a prepaid mailing label, they agreed and within 5 minutes, I received the mailing label attached to an email. To be clear, I mentioned that "a friend of mine" had been sent a mailing label and could they do the same for me.

My M9 was clearly not under warranty and, in fact, I had purchased it used.

It is definitely an example of inconsistency. My thoughts are that it ~may~ depend on who you talk to.

Ellen: I couldn't remember who had written this. I probably was thinking of your post.

I did the same a few days later.:D
I said "I heard from someone that she was sent a mailing label."

I asked for the mailing label and they said "no problem."
My M9 was not under warranty.

I think I may do the very same thing. But I wonder: will this come with insurance? Can I add insurance to the pre-paid label when I mail it?

And another thing: Think Leica is bad? I've had bad luck with the post office losing my packages. They lost a 15mm CV, with finder and filter, three months ago, and I have yet to collect on it. What if they lose my M9? Or yours? :eek:

And one more thing: Does Leica insure the return shipment? :eek:

Doug
07-13-2017, 01:42
...I think I may do the very same thing. But I wonder: will this come with insurance? Can I add insurance to the pre-paid label when I mail it?

And another thing: Think Leica is bad? I've had bad luck with the post office losing my packages. They lost a 15mm CV, with finder and filter, three months ago, and I have yet to collect on it. What if they lose my M9? Or yours? :eek:

And one more thing: Does Leica insure the return shipment? :eek:
When they furnish the label, and when they ship the camera back to you, they are taking responsibility for its safe arrival. Don't worry about the insurance, it's on them. USPS can be difficult too, as they lost our Pentax LX on its way for service. It was a hassle getting partial compensation.

sanmich
07-13-2017, 07:34
Look at the bright side:
You sent a modern camera, you have back a collectible. :D

Seriously. They are awful. It's not only the delays, the fact that several different people with "customer service" job definitions are not even responding. In my case I had to pay for their "mistakes" since they sent the camera back to me, international, despite my repeated mails asking not too, and to ship to a relative in the US instead. It's just ridiculous that people are paid to do such a lousy job.

Rob-F
07-13-2017, 08:35
I seem to have the impression that paying extra for Priority Express one-day shipping adds an extra level of security. Perhaps because of fewer handling steps and tighter tracking. Also, I wonder if adding registered mail to the above would add still another level of security. Can you do that? Would it help? After a recent experience, my trust for USPS is at a low point.

raid
07-13-2017, 08:36
I got today an email from Leica NJ about my M9.
Sensor cover glass: coating is separating.
Adjust range finder
CLA

Does this mean the sensor is damaged or is it only the cover glass for the sensor that needs replacing?


Cost=$0

Rob-F
07-13-2017, 08:38
Raid, I think it means you get a new sensor. I believe that separation of the cover glass is what goes wrong.

jaapv
07-13-2017, 08:40
Leica will replace the complete sensor/motherboard unit.

raid
07-13-2017, 08:44
Wonderful! Thank you Jaap. I sent my M9 in without having identified any problems myself. I saw dust once in a while, but I did not identify corrosion, as it is described online.

Rob-F
07-13-2017, 08:58
When they furnish the label, and when they ship the camera back to you, they are taking responsibility for its safe arrival. Don't worry about the insurance, it's on them. USPS can be difficult too, as they lost our Pentax LX on its way for service. It was a hassle getting partial compensation.

So the camera is insured in both directions? (Thanks, Doug)

taemo
07-13-2017, 09:13
You may simply have been unlucky with your contacting Leica NJ. I call them easily, and they respond quickly. Maybe they respond well on some days but then they don't on other days. :bang:

there's definitely a bunch of you guys that have had good experience with Leica NJ.
unfortunately I fall on the 2nd group with 2 bad experiences.
Over 4 months to get a M240 cleaned, 35mm Summicron IV missing focus tab.
Another 3 months for the Summicron IV to come back, front lens loose.
Sent Summicron IV back again to get fixed, wait for another 2-3 months.

Getting hold of someone is not a problem, but getting hold of the same person that knows what you're calling about is another challenge.
I think I ended up talking with 4-5 different staff in there to finally get an update or work done.

Rob-F
07-13-2017, 09:30
I wonder if it's even worth it to send in my M9, since its sensor may not even be defective. Eight or nine months without the camera; risk of loss. But then, if I don't send it, later I may have to pay $1000 to get it fixed.

I ought to rethink what I'm doing. Photography is becoming a headache. Too much buying, selling, shipping. Time to stay with my best, and most reliable gear, and use it to take pictures. My X100 works great, no headaches. Same with my D700 and my film Leicas, Nikons and Hasselblads.

raid
07-13-2017, 09:34
Send it in. This is my advice.

Rob-F
07-13-2017, 09:37
Yeah, OK. I know I have to.

raid
07-13-2017, 10:10
My M9 sensor failed in 2014 and again now. Hopefully, the "new sensor" will last more than 2 years.

raid
07-13-2017, 11:37
It will take 24-36 weeks to get the repair done, I have been informed today too. I still use my M8, and I have two M 4/3 cameras, so I should be fine.

sepiareverb
07-13-2017, 12:24
It will take 24-36 weeks to get the repair done, I have been informed today too. I still use my M8, and I have two M 4/3 cameras, so I should be fine.

You think they might hire an extra tech or three? Five or six months as the estimate, which they rarely seem able to meet doesn't bode well. Hope I'm wrong, but I suspect you will see the camera back just in time for Easter.

raid
07-13-2017, 15:16
I gave it more thought, and I am now unhappy about not having my M9 for 24-36 weeks. I take photos each week, and this will be very disappointing to me not to be able to have it for use. Leica should provide a loaner program for such cases.

Emile de Leon
07-13-2017, 15:21
Leica is more interested in building new boutiques and slick T cameras ..than providing quick service and reliable M cameras..

sepiareverb
07-13-2017, 17:47
Still no reply from the Solms contact.

Saul
07-13-2017, 19:35
Seriously, not trying to start a war here, but why do you guys put up with this from such a high-end product?

Rob-F
07-13-2017, 19:36
It will take 24-36 weeks to get the repair done, I have been informed today too. I still use my M8, and I have two M 4/3 cameras, so I should be fine.

I gave it more thought, and I am now unhappy about not having my M9 for 24-36 weeks. I take photos each week, and this will be very disappointing to me not to be able to have it for use. Leica should provide a loaner program for such cases.

I sort of wish I had kept my M8.2. At least it was reliable, with no sensor problems. But you know what? I will shoot film in the meantime. Digital, Shmigital. I have a darkroom, after all.

Corran
07-13-2017, 20:38
My M9 sensor failed in 2014 and again now. Hopefully, the "new sensor" will last more than 2 years.

I assume your first failure was replaced with a similarly problematic sensor. The newer sensor should be free of the separation one would think?

I gave it more thought, and I am now unhappy about not having my M9 for 24-36 weeks. I take photos each week, and this will be very disappointing to me not to be able to have it for use. Leica should provide a loaner program for such cases.

I am also somewhat disappointed with an estimate of 6-9 months but on the other hand the repair is free so I suppose I don't feel too cheated. I shoot mostly film anyway and have a couple of FF Nikon DSLRs so while I would like to have my M9, I'm not totally out of options. I certainly wouldn't balk at a free M10 rental for 6 months or more though :D.

You think they might hire an extra tech or three? Five or six months as the estimate, which they rarely seem able to meet doesn't bode well. Hope I'm wrong, but I suspect you will see the camera back just in time for Easter.

That sounds great but I suspect that the training and specialized knowledge needed would mean the tech wouldn't really be doing much except taking time away from the other techs for quite a while.

Huss
07-13-2017, 23:27
Seriously, not trying to start a war here, but why do you guys put up with this from such a high-end product?

I agree with you. If I knew about this before, I never would have bought a new digital Leica. I would have stuck to old Leica film cameras that other techs can service.

My M-E failed only a few months into warranty, and was gone for service longer than I owned it! Leica should have either just replaced it with a different camera, or provided a loaner. Obviously they did not do this because this was happening to too many cameras for them to do so.
A problem of their own doing, knowingly selling defective cameras i.e. cameras with sensors that they knew were going to fail.

But they get a pass a most Leica owners are not Leica users and think that this is part of the territory of owning such an exclusive product. A badge of owner if you will.

jaapv
07-14-2017, 01:56
Still no reply from the Solms contact.
Not surprising. Leica is in Wetzlar...

sepiareverb
07-14-2017, 03:09
Seriously, not trying to start a war here, but why do you guys put up with this from such a high-end product?

I suppose I could have driven down to NJ and demanded they finish the camera while I waited? Not really sure how well that would have gone over...

I did ask to get the camera finished quickly, mentioned that I had started this process almost a year ago, that they'd taken the camera in in September, that I had to return it because work I'd paid for wasn't done. They just don't seem to care.

Not surprising. Leica is in Wetzlar...

Ha, right. Wetzlar.

enasniearth
07-14-2017, 03:21
Unfortunately only Leica can work on the digital models
With the film cameras and lenses you have other options

The cut off on sensor replacement for cameras under 5 years old
Has the service department overwhelmed , no one wants to miss
The cut-off date and pay $1000 later on

So everyone is sending cameras in and so the very long wait

raid
07-14-2017, 05:20
Many camera repair people can fix and maintain Leica film cameras, but when it comes to defective Leica digital cameras, only Leica can fix them.

raid
07-14-2017, 08:00
I assume your first failure was replaced with a similarly problematic sensor. The newer sensor should be free of the separation one would think?

I am also somewhat disappointed with an estimate of 6-9 months but on the other hand the repair is free so I suppose I don't feel too cheated. I shoot mostly film anyway and have a couple of FF Nikon DSLRs so while I would like to have my M9, I'm not totally out of options. I certainly wouldn't balk at a free M10 rental for 6 months or more though :D.

That sounds great but I suspect that the training and specialized knowledge needed would mean the tech wouldn't really be doing much except taking time away from the other techs for quite a while.

The new sensor should be a better sensor with respect to corrosion due to a different glass being used. I am happy that the replacement is free of charge.

Emile de Leon
07-14-2017, 08:16
I remember when Leica's passport warrantee...replaced broken cams with a brand new camera for any reason if totally destroyed.. free...
9 mos is a lifetime to some..to wait for something they already paid for..that wasn't their fault to begin with..
and now their new M10..has the iso knob problems etc..it just never ends...
For something that should have been tested thoroughly before release to market..
Who is running the show over there..do they even care..

splitimageview
07-14-2017, 08:35
This is nothing new. How many issues have arisen since the original M8?

It began with the magenta problem.

Along the way there were loose strap lugs.

Deteriorating sensors.

Coffee stain LCD.

SD card incompatibility.

Banding, streaking, rainbows, green ghosts, transistors, recalls.

And so on over time until the current M10 ISO problem.

History shows that issues with Leica are to be expected.

On top of this, they can't produce to meet demand. This has been the case since 9/9/9 when the M9 was announced. This may actually be a *good* thing, as that means there are fewer cameras in the field that they'll have to service. :)

raid
07-14-2017, 08:37
What is the M10 ISO problem? I may be out of the loop here.

Saul
07-14-2017, 08:40
...They just don't seem to care.

This is nothing new. How many issues have arisen since the original M8?

Watch for the side-effects of this on the fabled "Leica glow".

Archlich
07-14-2017, 09:23
I remember reading somewhere on RFF (perhaps when the sensor corrosion issue first broke out), that people referred to it as a "person-to-person, curated experience". Hmm...

steveyork
07-14-2017, 13:15
You think they might hire an extra tech or three? Five or six months as the estimate, which they rarely seem able to meet doesn't bode well. Hope I'm wrong, but I suspect you will see the camera back just in time for Easter.

You must not have gotten many Leica cameras repaired recently, Leica NJ or anywhere else. Waiting is the name of the game. Six months is actually pretty quick these days.

Huss
07-14-2017, 14:35
What is the M10 ISO problem? I may be out of the loop here.


Here:


https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/271966-m10-stuck-on-iso-400/

Some are reporting a 3-6 month wait for fix. As given to them by the customer rep. Other have had theirs fixed in a month.

Holding on to my M240 is looking better all the time now! Especially since I bought it used.

kermaier
07-14-2017, 14:41
I would send any camera directly to Germany, through an intermediary if necessary. Leica NJ has proven impossible to deal with. They do not reply to emails, they do not reply to voicemail, unless you are lucky and someone actually answers their phone when you call you are SOL. Even then, I often got little to no explanation for how it could take so long.

I wrote to the contact in Solms to complain about the process/timeline in NJ but have not heard back yet. Never any mention of a refund or partial one for being without the camera for about eight months. I may email to ask...

I brought my M9-P in to Leica NJ last year to have a sticky focus cam roller serviced. They said they could replace the focus arm for a couple hundred dollars, but FYI the sensor is corroded and needs to be replaced (free service) -- and we'll throw in the focus arm for no charge.
When it turned out that the new sensors were going to be delayed coming from Germany for some months, they sent me an M240 as a loaner for the interim.
When I -- eventually -- came in to pick up my repaired M9-P, they told me I could come back any time for a free sensor cleaning.
So, while everything took much longer than they originally told me, my overall impression is still quite favorable.

raid
07-14-2017, 14:50
Yes, they treated you very well.

sepiareverb
07-14-2017, 18:20
You must not have gotten many Leica cameras repaired recently, Leica NJ or anywhere else. Waiting is the name of the game. Six months is actually pretty quick these days.

DAG recently did an overhaul on a 1a I have. Turnaround time was about three weeks. He also did some work on an M5 a month or so before that in about the same timeframe.

steveyork
07-16-2017, 06:03
DAG recently did an overhaul on a 1a I have. Turnaround time was about three weeks. He also did some work on an M5 a month or so before that in about the same timeframe.

Then you must be on DAG's preferential list, or you actively pushed for an earlier repair, because of all he the Leica technicians he is known for his long waits. I finally told him to send a camera back after more then 12 months. Even Sherry and Ye are a 4-6 month wait now, unless you are a 'squeaky wheel.'

Rob-F
07-16-2017, 06:50
I would send any camera directly to Germany, through an intermediary if necessary.

I wrote to the contact in Solms to complain about the process/timeline in NJ but have not heard back yet.

So sending an M9 directly to Germany is an option? I don't recall seeing this mentioned before. It would go to Wetzlar, I believe, not Solms, now. Sending it to Germany would be an additional shipping nuisance, though, possibly with greater risk of loss, owing to the added handling steps.

I will try to remember to phone Leica NJ another time, on Monday. I'd like to have my M9 for a trip in August or September; and for the Leica annual meeting in October. But I guess that won't be possible, since the deadline for free service is in August, and then my M9 will be away for 8 or 9 months.

raid
07-16-2017, 07:48
I will use other cameras until my M9 gets back to me (from NJ) one day.

Borge H
07-16-2017, 09:39
I got today an email from Leica NJ about my M9.
Sensor cover glass: coating is separating.
Adjust range finder
CLA

Does this mean the sensor is damaged or is it only the cover glass for the sensor that needs replacing?


Cost=$0

Be happy for the low cost.:)

I sent my M9 to Germany recently for sensor replacement, as it is separating. They sent me an estimate for the replacement: 178,5 Euro for the job which includes a Leica M9 service package with inspection and CLA of all parts. The sensor replacement (exchange sensor, adjustment, firmware update, adjustment range finder and new camera cover) is carried out under good will.

If I use Leica DHL pick-up service, I have to pay if the camera has no warranty.

So I guess the Leica NJ is a low cost operation. I guess if they hire more people to answer telephones they have to increase the prices. So what do you americans want? Nice people answering telephones or low repair cost?:)

ptpdprinter
07-16-2017, 09:57
So what do you americans want?
The same cost and turnaround time as Europe. Will your repair take 24 weeks?

raid
07-16-2017, 10:20
I would say that in general, The US market seems to be following the guidelines that lowering costs is done "at any cost", so to speak. Look at US airlines. Service is non-existent, with the excuse that "otherwise, the flight fares must be increased". Compare this with European airlines that accept a much lower profit margin and that offer far superior services to the passengers.

Borge H
07-16-2017, 10:21
The same cost and turnaround time as Europe. Will your repair take 24 weeks?

They said in late May 6 to 8 weeks when I sent it in then to Leica Wetzlar. If I check the online repair tracking it now says:"Reparatur in Bearbeitung" (work in progress). So I guess it will take some time. The German people usually go on holiday in August, here in Sweden we usually have our holidays in July. They all have at least 4 weeks of holiday, so I guess I will be lucky if I get my camara back before end of September. That will be about 16 weeks. Normally companies shut down here or have minimal operation during holidays.

raid
07-16-2017, 10:22
Leica USA sent me a UPS mailing sticker, so I did not pay for shipping either. Actually, Leica USA seems to be doing what is possible to keep costs very low or at zero cost for Leica users. I bought my M9 used, and it is/was not under warranty.

ptpdprinter
07-16-2017, 11:07
They said in late May 6 to 8 weeks when I sent it in then to Leica Wetzlar. If I check the online repair tracking it now says:"Reparatur in Bearbeitung" (work in progress). So I guess it will take some time. The German people usually go on holiday in August, here in Sweden we usually have our holidays in July. They all have at least 4 weeks of holiday, so I guess I will be lucky if I get my camara back before end of September. That will be about 16 weeks. Normally companies shut down here or have minimal operation during holidays.
So Leica Wetzlar say 6-8 weeks and Leica NJ says 24 weeks. Can you understand how US Leica users feel like the red-headed stepchild?

raid
07-16-2017, 11:09
Actually, it is now 24-36 weeks at Leica USA.

ptpdprinter
07-16-2017, 11:17
Actually, it is now 24-36 weeks at Leica USA.
Based on RFF reports, I thought it was "only" 24 weeks. I didn't realize it was now up to 36 weeks. I guess we'll need to wait until August 15th to get the final timetable.

sepiareverb
07-16-2017, 11:27
So sending an M9 directly to Germany is an option? I don't recall seeing this mentioned before. It would go to Wetzlar, I believe, not Solms, now. Sending it to Germany would be an additional shipping nuisance, though, possibly with greater risk of loss, owing to the added handling steps...

Right, Wetzlar, I have the Solms stuck in my head.

There is additional paperwork these days for things going in & back out of Germany true, but properly insured I think any risk is minimal. No carrier will want to pay replacement cost on any item of M value.

Leica USA sent me a UPS mailing sticker, so I did not pay for shipping either. Actually, Leica USA seems to be doing what is possible to keep costs very low or at zero cost for Leica users. I bought my M9 used, and it is/was not under warranty.

Firstly by not hiring enough people to actually do the volume of work they get.

raid
07-16-2017, 11:41
Based on RFF reports, I thought it was "only" 24 weeks. I didn't realize it was now up to 36 weeks. I guess we'll need to wait until August 15th to get the final timetable.

I was told a week ago that for my M9, it will be 24-36 weeks.

raid
07-16-2017, 11:49
It could be that each worker there must be certified by Leica before they are allowed to fix Leica cameras (for Leica).

Borge H
07-16-2017, 11:56
So Leica Wetzlar say 6-8 weeks and Leica NJ says 24 weeks. Can you understand how US Leica users feel like the red-headed stepchild?

Well, I have not got my camera yet. It is now 8 weeks and it should be here, but I guess I have to wait longer. But as we said when I was younger and longed for a leave from the compulsory Swedish military service at that time to visit my girl friend: "The one who waits for something good, can wait for a long time...".http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif

I checked up Leica NJ on Bloomberg home page. It seems that it is a subsidary under Leica Wetzlar:

Company Overview

Leica Camera Inc. distributes camera and optical lenses of Leica Camera AG in the United States. Additionally the company offers repair facilities in USA. Leica Camera Inc. was founded in 1995 and is based in Allendale, New Jersey. Leica Camera Inc. operates as a subsidiary of Leica Camera AG.

Allendale, NJ 07401
United States


I guess Leica Wetzlar could easily send over some German technican to New jersey to reduce the waiting time for you. To train a new one would probably take longer time.

You could perhaps suggest Leica Wetzlar this. But wait until I get my M9 back...http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif

Huss
07-16-2017, 12:27
So Leica Wetzlar say 6-8 weeks and Leica NJ says 24 weeks. Can you understand how US Leica users feel like the red-headed stepchild?

They are now saying 24-36 weeks.

edit - I see that Raid has already mentioned this.

agoglanian
07-17-2017, 17:29
The only time (and probably last time) I used Leica NJ for service was with my 28mm Summicron I used to have. The front lens group had come loose (as had many others) and I sent it in for that repair. When I got it back it was actually in worse shape than when I sent it in and had to send it back. It ultimately took three more return trips (so four trips total) and about 4 months to get the lens right. So it sounds like my length of time was “speedy” but the quality of work was abysmal. Not to mention absolute zero contact. It was nigh-impossible to get a phone or email response from ANYONE there.

By contrast, Don (DAG) has been super friendly, communicative and vastly quicker (plus done right the first time) with anything I’ve sent him. I don’t know about any kind of preferential treatment, I just know that whenever I contact him I get a response and when I send him equipment to work on it gets done correctly and usually within a week or two.

It’s experiences like the ones described here that really make me feel conflicted about Leica as a company. I really do love their products, I find that they’re the tools that best suit my vision and how I like to work, but I have next to no confidence in the service and support area (at least for the US) compared to what I used to get with Canon CPS. Granted Leica is no worse than anyone else I’ve experienced (Sony, Pentax/Ricoh, Fuji, etc.)

If they had the same level of service and support that Canon does I would be beyond happy with them.

G Dogg
07-17-2017, 18:59
I sent my Monochrome in for a sensor cleaning and check about 2 weeks ago. I received an acknowledgement email from Leica NJ that the camera was received. I have also had two additional email exchanges since then. I have found the team there responsive to my emails, and i have been very candid with them about the general dissatisfaction from many people on this board. I do believe that they are very busy, but are trying to be more responsive. I am fully prepared for the wait as I was advised of the 20-24 week lead time. Communication goes a long way in managing expectations. Now I will hope that in 6 months time or sooner the camera is returned.

Emile de Leon
07-17-2017, 19:08
24
36
48
52
Leica...
Workers...doughnuts..Tuna sandwich..
oh..
camera..
over there..
already bought..
lunch now..
ding ding..goes the buzzer..
need to make more m10's..
m9..
can wait..
or..
Leica..
Why dost thou exist..
why do you maketh me wait..
such a lover..
you are..
lol..

Rob-F
07-18-2017, 07:36
I keep forgetting to call Leica back for that mailing label. Must be that I really don't want to go without it for 24-36 weeks. Maybe I should just not bother. I don't see anything wrong with it anyhow. Why did I sell my M8.2. It was good enough. Oh, yeah, I sold it because I thought Leica would always honor the free M9 sensor replacement promise. Compared to all this anxiety, a 1.33 crop isn't so bad. Should have kept it. I have plenty good wide angle lenses for my D700, when I need to go wider than the M8.2.

Leica could take a lot of pressure off of us and themselves by dropping that August deadline.

raid
07-18-2017, 07:45
The M8 is/was an excellent camera. Only restriction is the 1.33 crop. If you are used to using 50mm lenses (as I am), then using a 35mm or 40mm lens on the M8 works great.

sepiareverb
07-18-2017, 07:47
I sent my Monochrome in for a sensor cleaning and check about 2 weeks ago...

...I was advised of the 20-24 week lead time....

Impressive service. :bang:

Huss
07-18-2017, 08:36
24
36
48
52
Leica...
Workers...doughnuts..Tuna sandwich..
oh..
camera..
over there..
already bought..
lunch now..
ding ding..goes the buzzer..
need to make more m10's..
m9..
can wait..
or..
Leica..
Why dost thou exist..
why do you maketh me wait..
such a lover..
you are..
lol..

Far out man, far out.

jszokoli
07-18-2017, 09:30
I keep forgetting to call Leica back for that mailing label...

Sent two cameras to NJ, First on May 30, got -$0- estimate for sensor replacement June 14.

Sent second camera June 16th, camera was received, but no word as of today July 18.

So the line just for a evaluation has grown from Just over 2 weeks to 1 month and counting between May 30th and June 16th.

I'd say send the camera in as soon as possible.

Joe

Huss
07-20-2017, 11:21
To show that it's not only Leica that has recall issues, I just received a recall notice for my Nikon D 750.

http://www.nikonusa.com/en/service-and-support/service-advisories/i4xzkqns/Technical-Service-Advisory-for-Users-of-the-Nikon-D750.html

Enter your serial #, if your camera is affected Nikon automatically provides a postage paid UPS label. No special favours asked or expected. Turnaround time for this shutter replacement? 1 week. 1 week. Not 24 -36 weeks, but 1 week.

That is how you take care of your customers.

raid
07-20-2017, 11:24
Taking your Toyota to the dealer may result in a faster trunaround time than taking your Mercedes to the dealership. [just joking!]

Huss
07-20-2017, 11:32
Taking your Toyota to the dealer may result in a faster trunaround time than taking your Mercedes to the dealership. [just joking!]

I know you are joking Raid, but servicing my Jeep (I guess the closest equivalent to a Toyota that I have) takes the same time as my BMW.

sepiareverb
07-20-2017, 15:48
To show that it's not only Leica that has recall issues, I just received a recall notice for my Nikon D 750.

http://www.nikonusa.com/en/service-and-support/service-advisories/i4xzkqns/Technical-Service-Advisory-for-Users-of-the-Nikon-D750.html

Enter your serial #, if your camera is affected Nikon automatically provides a postage paid UPS label. No special favours asked or expected. Turnaround time for this shutter replacement? 1 week. 1 week. Not 24 -36 weeks, but 1 week.

That is how you take care of your customers.

Oh boy. A good friend of mine just replaced the D600 he had lifted on the Paris Metro with a 750...

And agreed. That is proper attention to making something right.

sepiareverb
07-22-2017, 14:09
Heard from the contact in Wetzlar:

Hello Bob,

Thank you for the information and please excuse my late answer.
Im glad to hear that you finally received your camera back in good working condition.

We are aware that our agency in NJ is having problems to perform a good customer care. They are still struggling with the new computer system which has been installed and which caused a huge back log.
Im sure once things are back to normal, they will get back with their customers sooner and in an appropriate time.

Of course, if you would like to send your camera to Germany in the future (which we hope will not be necessary), you can do so. But before sending, please register the outgoing items with your local customs office, so you will not be charged a high customs fee once the camera returns.

All the best and greetings from Germany !

Doug
07-22-2017, 22:56
Interesting... and they seem surprisingly unaware there is no US Customs import duties on camera gear.

jeffrypittman
07-23-2017, 12:38
My experiences with Leica NJ have all been positive. I had two M8's upgraded to 8.2, I had an M9 upgraded to an MP, and I had one MP (film) repaired and a second serviced. All repairs were done at different times in the past few years but all were completed in 4-5 weeks and the charges were either covered under warranty or completed at the price estimated.

sepiareverb
07-23-2017, 12:57
Interesting... and they seem surprisingly unaware there is no US Customs import duties on camera gear.

No, it is a German fee if I understood the explanation I got from DHW when I sent in my Rollei a couple of years ago correctly.

raid
07-23-2017, 13:17
I have had German exchange students work with me, and they dump their used blue jeans and buy new blue jeans in the USA so that German customs will not have them pay customs on the jeans.

jaapv
07-24-2017, 16:53
I have had German exchange students work with me, and they dump their used blue jeans and buy new blue jeans in the USA so that German customs will not have them pay customs on the jeans.
Haha, funny story:) :lol: Actually the rule is that duty(4.2%) has to be paid when importing goods over 150 , VAT (21%) on goods over 22.
However the value is not calculated from the shop price, but from the actual value. How much is a used pair of jeans worth? And how is customs going to prove that an unlabelled piece of clothing was purchased outside Germany?
It will never happen. I would import an M10 from the USA simply by hanging it over my shoulder and not declaring it... I theory they could ask for proof of purchase in the EU for such an item, in the far past it might happen occasionally (I recall my father declaring his Agfa Silette when we went on holiday 50 years ago) but nowadays? never.

Bille
08-01-2017, 22:51
I ought to rethink what I'm doing. Photography is becoming a headache. Too much buying, selling, shipping. Time to stay with my best, and most reliable gear, and use it to take pictures. My X100 works great, no headaches.

Bingo. Leica must be kidding.

Bille
08-01-2017, 22:59
Interesting... and they seem surprisingly unaware there is no US Customs import duties on camera gear.

Really? When I get something from outside the European Union i am being charged 19% (nineteen) VAT. Didnt know in the US you can import for free. :eek:

Ong
08-02-2017, 01:47
I think it's just a Leica issue worldwide to begin with.
Had to send a Leicavit MP I bought new under warranty due to the belt snapping after 1 month of use.

Initial estimated time given for the repair: 6 weeks
Then it was 1 more month "as parts weren't in stock and had to be ordered"
and then it was another month "as the wrong parts had been ordered"

All in all 3 1/2 months for a repair (sent in the first week of March, returned mid-late July) and the kicker being that while it was with the official Leica repairer, it counted against the warranty time period and the warranty was not extended for the time they held it.

I'm not looking forward to have to take it back since ever since getting it back, after loading the film, trying to advance it results in a ridiculous amount of pressure being applied to the body's advance lever in order to get it going. Never had the issue before sending it to them either :(

Mute-on
08-02-2017, 04:06
I think it's just a Leica issue worldwide to begin with.
Had to send a Leicavit MP I bought new under warranty due to the belt snapping after 1 month of use.

Initial estimated time given for the repair: 6 weeks
Then it was 1 more month "as parts weren't in stock and had to be ordered"
and then it was another month "as the wrong parts had been ordered"

All in all 3 1/2 months for a repair (sent in the first week of March, returned mid-late July) and the kicker being that while it was with the official Leica repairer, it counted against the warranty time period and the warranty was not extended for the time they held it.

I'm not looking forward to have to take it back since ever since getting it back, after loading the film, trying to advance it results in a ridiculous amount of pressure being applied to the body's advance lever in order to get it going. Never had the issue before sending it to them either :(

Time for a potential refund under Australian consumer legislation

Borge H
08-11-2017, 10:53
I got my M9 today. I have missed it! The total turn-around time was 10 weeks. I am satisfied, they said before I sent it in that it should take 6 to 8 weeks.

As it now is in August, and I see a lot of cars from Germany on the roads here i Sweden, I guess some must be working during holidays in Wetzlar. I did not expect that!:)

The M9 feels the same, heavy and compact. New cover, but my old scratches on the screen are still there. No mistakes, it is my M9.

G Dogg
08-23-2017, 17:37
Leica Monochrom sent to NJ and acknowledged receipt July 6, 2017. Today (August 23), received email, "sensor cover glass coating separation, etc..." No Charge. In the queue for replacement.

Bill Blackwell
09-02-2017, 14:54
With a few exceptions, whenever I've needed service through Leica, I've gone through my Leica dealer, Tony Rose at Popflash Photo.

Other than just wait time I've had no issues, whatsoever, with Leica service.

Bill Blackwell
09-02-2017, 15:02
To the OP:

Please post a pic of your finished camera - I'd like to see it.

sepiareverb
09-04-2017, 11:11
Here it is Bill. Very happy with it, it has already gotten pretty heavy use.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4416/36886010071_0ea169bcf8_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/YcurGT)

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4353/36838818236_f119193df1_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Y8jzdy)

raid
09-04-2017, 11:47
Congrats! It is a beauty.

sepiareverb
09-04-2017, 12:47
Congrats! It is a beauty.

Thanks Raid. It's exactly what I was after. Completely minimal appearance.

Bill Blackwell
09-04-2017, 15:58
Congrats, Bob. Looks like the ultimate street camera (made for 'stealth').

jeffrypittman
11-07-2017, 15:15
I sent my M9 in to NJ to have the sensor checked. I received confirmation on July 10th that the camera had been received. In August I received notification that the camera had been inspected and the sensor needed to be replaced (at no charge). I received a shipping notice today that the camera will arrive on November 9th. Four months or about 18 weeks is how long it took. Sharing to give others who are waiting some indication of current turnaround.

farlymac
11-29-2017, 19:48
Today my Elmarit-R 2.8/28 returned from service at Leica USA (NJ). It's clean as a pin, and the focus is very smooth. Even came in a plastic bag with the Leica red dot, and a certification of repair dated Nov 18, 2017. I sent the lens to them in May, 2017. I was told in August, 2017 it was being repaired. Again in Oct, 2017 they informed me it was being repaired after I questioned the length of their technicians lunch breaks, and that it would be returned to me "by the end of next week", which would have been Nov 4, 2017. Notice the repair and inspection date previously noted (Nov 18, 2017). It wasn't shipped until Nov 24, 2017. Even with UPS Ground shipping it got here fairly quickly, with a first delivery attempt on Nov 27, 2017, and again on Nov 28, 2017. But I was out of town then with no Internet contact to know about the delivery (which had to be signed for), so I couldn't tell UPS to hold it. Luckily today I was home, other wise it would have been sent back to Allendale.

It only took three hours (3 hours!) to fix and clean the lens.

I can understand them having a large backlog of work, due to the sensor issues on more than one camera, and the lack of enough skilled techs to handle it all. If they had just said there were "X" number of customers ahead of me, and kept me apprised of the count from time to time, I would have been happy with that. But no, they had to blatantly lie about the situation time and time again. And if they had contacted me on either the 18th or 20th of Nov with the good news of the lens repair being completed, I could have told them to hold shipping for a few more days.

If something else goes bad on my Leica R system, I may just sell it off instead of investing more time and a large sum of money in fixing it. And bye-bye to Leica forever.

PF

Huss
11-29-2017, 20:20
It's sad how Leica NJ acts like one of those one man repair shows such as DAG, Sherry, Youxin, Lazzari etc. Instead of a professional corporate organization with man power to match the work load.

(I am in no way disparaging those indie shops, I am comparing Leica to them purely on time line. Even though, thinking about it, I'm sure that most of them are much quicker than Leica NJ!)

sepiareverb
11-30-2017, 03:02
They are all much faster than Leica.

jaapv
11-30-2017, 17:20
Today my Elmarit-R 2.8/28 returned from service at Leica USA (NJ). It's clean as a pin, and the focus is very smooth. Even came in a plastic bag with the Leica red dot, and a certification of repair dated Nov 18, 2017. I sent the lens to them in May, 2017. I was told in August, 2017 it was being repaired. Again in Oct, 2017 they informed me it was being repaired after I questioned the length of their technicians lunch breaks, and that it would be returned to me "by the end of next week", which would have been Nov 4, 2017. Notice the repair and inspection date previously noted (Nov 18, 2017). It wasn't shipped until Nov 24, 2017. Even with UPS Ground shipping it got here fairly quickly, with a first delivery attempt on Nov 27, 2017, and again on Nov 28, 2017. But I was out of town then with no Internet contact to know about the delivery (which had to be signed for), so I couldn't tell UPS to hold it. Luckily today I was home, other wise it would have been sent back to Allendale.

It only took three hours (3 hours!) to fix and clean the lens.

I can understand them having a large backlog of work, due to the sensor issues on more than one camera, and the lack of enough skilled techs to handle it all. If they had just said there were "X" number of customers ahead of me, and kept me apprised of the count from time to time, I would have been happy with that. But no, they had to blatantly lie about the situation time and time again. And if they had contacted me on either the 18th or 20th of Nov with the good news of the lens repair being completed, I could have told them to hold shipping for a few more days.

If something else goes bad on my Leica R system, I may just sell it off instead of investing more time and a large sum of money in fixing it. And bye-bye to Leica forever.

PFWell, yes, not that Leica would mind, the R system having been discontinued in 2007, but you might consider which other camera company would be willing and able to repair a thirty year old lens...

Huss
11-30-2017, 17:29
Well, yes, not that Leica would mind, the R system having been discontinued in 2007, but you might consider which other camera company would be willing and able to repair a thirty year old lens...

Nikon repairs AIS lenses. In about a week.

farlymac
11-30-2017, 20:30
You know, Jaap, this whole Leica "thing" has intrigued me for some time. But for a company that claims to be so highfalutin, what with all their boutique models, they sure can't manage their one repair facility in the USA.

I looked around. Couldn't find a repair person willing to work on Leica R gear. Could be because it's a mishmash of Minolta and Leica technologies, or the production runs were not very long (thus limiting the amount of parts bodies out there), or the repair parts are not available.

I splurged on this R system because for one, it was less expensive than the M system, and because of the Leica glass. Now, I made some purchases that were bargain priced for lenses with external flaws, because how it worked was more important to me than how it looked. For what I paid for the camera with lens, I basically got one or the other free, so there was no complaint when I was told the cost of repair. It was still cheaper than replacing the lens.

What I am upset about is the way I was flat out lied to about the work progress. Tell me there is an influx of repairs due to sensor issues. Let me know there are X amount of jobs ahead of mine, and where that stands from time to time. Don't just say it's being worked on when in fact it is not. It wasn't repaired until two weeks after the date it was promised to be back in my hands, and this was after five and a half months of waiting.

I'll not do business with a company that treats its customers that way, nor will I send anyone else in their direction.

PF

Huss
11-30-2017, 21:03
You know, Jaap, this whole Leica "thing" has intrigued me for some time. But for a company that claims to be so highfalutin, what with all their boutique models, they sure can't manage their one repair facility in the USA.

You could try Walter's Camera Repair in downtown LA, or Steve's Camera in Culver City for your R gear.

I too think Leica service is severely lacking, but get away with it by all the apologists out there. The only reason I'm in with Leica is because there is no-one else that offers that rangefinder experience, especially in film.
I'm kinda done with their digital RF gear (I still have the M) just because I was done with all the lies about the M9 sensor issues, and the claims that only 1% had failures, when the actuality seems to be 100%. And because of their terrible service, I was w/o my essentially new $5K camera for almost half a year.
With the film gear, there are quite a few competent techs that their livelihood relies on their service, so the situation is much better. Plus it is film!

Oh and after my M-E debacle, bought new, I've made sure to buy all my Leica gear used now. It's easy to get immaculate gear as most of it is owned by collectors not users. A cool way to save a lot on the new cost, and it lessens the blow if something goes south on you.

jaapv
12-01-2017, 00:11
You know, Jaap, this whole Leica "thing" has intrigued me for some time. But for a company that claims to be so highfalutin, what with all their boutique models, they sure can't manage their one repair facility in the USA.

I looked around. Couldn't find a repair person willing to work on Leica R gear. Could be because it's a mishmash of Minolta and Leica technologies, or the production runs were not very long (thus limiting the amount of parts bodies out there), or the repair parts are not available.

I splurged on this R system because for one, it was less expensive than the M system, and because of the Leica glass. Now, I made some purchases that were bargain priced for lenses with external flaws, because how it worked was more important to me than how it looked. For what I paid for the camera with lens, I basically got one or the other free, so there was no complaint when I was told the cost of repair. It was still cheaper than replacing the lens.

What I am upset about is the way I was flat out lied to about the work progress. Tell me there is an influx of repairs due to sensor issues. Let me know there are X amount of jobs ahead of mine, and where that stands from time to time. Don't just say it's being worked on when in fact it is not. It wasn't repaired until two weeks after the date it was promised to be back in my hands, and this was after five and a half months of waiting.

I'll not do business with a company that treats its customers that way, nor will I send anyone else in their direction.

PFThis is not my main Leica forum, but if you read LUF, you would know that I quite agree that Leica NJ can be sadly lacking from time to time. Unfortunately, it appears to be difficult for Wetzlar to get a grip on the problem. I could give some reasons why this might be, but don't want to sound apologist - there is no apology for the many let-downs.
I do know that there are attempts made in Germany to make Leica USA great again ;).

x-ray
12-01-2017, 03:37
Well, yes, not that Leica would mind, the R system having been discontinued in 2007, but you might consider which other camera company would be willing and able to repair a thirty year old lens...

When renewing my NPS membership this year Nikon states they still repair some film cameras as long as parts remain available. They stated though that it may take longer than the normal 1 week turnaround and could be two weeks. Also NPS members get a discount on repairs.

Leica could really take a lesson from Nikon service. I shipped my 70-200 VRII to Get serviced Wednesday. Nikon makes everything so easy. NPS provides a flash drive free with all pertinate data about my equipment in PDF form. It has a link to the NPS site to login to a repair form that only takes 30 seconds to fill out. This form is then submitted on line and you're emailed immediately with a shipping label and duplicate repair forms with all your info on it and info about the requested repair.

When your package is received you receive an email update. Many repairs are a fixed price but every repair is evaluated within a day and the price could change depending on parts needed. For example my Df met with an unfortunate accident on a job this summer. It suffered impact damage to the aperture mechanism in the body. I filled out my NPS form and the fixed price was $310. In the end it cost only $260 with the discount. Even with the quoted price the body was evaluated and a final quote emailed for approval.

Throughout the repair status could be checked on line. Also for NPS customers FREE loaner bodies and lenses are provided on request and shipped FedEx overnight. The only cost is shipping both ways.

When thevrepair is completed the item is return shipped FedEx overnight.

Leica could adopt some of this for their customers and provide a pro level of service for those of us making our living with photography but they choose not to.

From experience normal turnaround on digital repairs is three weeks.

Even though Nikon discontinued film bodies with the exception of the FM10 they stil produce a selection of AIs lenses.

x-ray
12-01-2017, 03:52
This is not my main Leica forum, but if you read LUF, you would know that I quite agree that Leica NJ can be sadly lacking from time to time. Unfortunately, it appears to be difficult for Wetzlar to get a grip on the problem. I could give some reasons why this might be, but don't want to sound apologist - there is no apology for the many let-downs.
I do know that there are attempts made in Germany to make Leica USA great again ;).

Having owned a business for many years, getting control isn't that difficult. It starts with firing the people causing the issue and hiring new employs. It's called cleaning house and it works.

My honest opinion, Leica is a disaster from the top down. I think a lot of it is simply they are too cheap to put on techs to keep up with repairs. They know the fan boys will put up with months and months of delays and they'll continue with this lack of service until their customers walk away. And, I go back to my core belief that these issues wouldn't exist if Leica had done a better job of designing and execution of the camera. Basically they took the cheap route which is obvious from features like the tiny buffer and LCD.

Emile de Leon
12-01-2017, 07:32
If Leica wanted to solve their service and QC problems ...they would..but their market does not demand it..so they don't...lol...KA CHING...

sepiareverb
12-01-2017, 11:47
...I think a lot of it is simply they are too cheap to put on techs to keep up with repairs...

Precisely. It seems that there is one tech working on cameras in NJ. When my MP was in I was told "the tech" was in Germany, so nothing could happen with the camera before he returned.

sepiareverb
12-01-2017, 11:55
I just had a repair done on an MP, the counter dial went south. Leica NJ quoted me 12 weeks. I sent the camera to DAG and it arrived yesterday at 4:15. I'd asked him if he could have it done for me in time for a road trip the first week in January. It is finished and being packed now, less than 24 hours later. He also adjusted shutter release (was releasing too late), adjusted high shutter speeds, cleaned, lubed film & shutter takeup systems, and made very minor adjustment to rangefinder. He emailed me that the repair was done at 11:20 last night.

About to email Leica back...

Huss
12-01-2017, 12:03
When renewing my NPS membership this year Nikon states they still repair some film cameras as long as parts remain available. They stated though that it may take longer than the normal 1 week turnaround and could be two weeks. Also NPS members get a discount on repairs.

Leica could really take a lesson from Nikon service. I shipped my 70-200 VRII to Get serviced Wednesday. Nikon makes everything so easy. NPS provides a flash drive free with all pertinate data about my equipment in PDF form. It has a link to the NPS site to login to a repair form that only takes 30 seconds to fill out. This form is then submitted on line and you're emailed immediately with a shipping label and duplicate repair forms with all your info on it and info about the requested repair.

When your package is received you receive an email update. Many repairs are a fixed price but every repair is evaluated within a day and the price could change depending on parts needed. For example my Df met with an unfortunate accident on a job this summer. It suffered impact damage to the aperture mechanism in the body. I filled out my NPS form and the fixed price was $310. In the end it cost only $260 with the discount. Even with the quoted price the body was evaluated and a final quote emailed for approval.

Throughout the repair status could be checked on line. Also for NPS customers FREE loaner bodies and lenses are provided on request and shipped FedEx overnight. The only cost is shipping both ways.

When thevrepair is completed the item is return shipped FedEx overnight.

Leica could adopt some of this for their customers and provide a pro level of service for those of us making our living with photography but they choose not to.

From experience normal turnaround on digital repairs is three weeks.

Even though Nikon discontinued film bodies with the exception of the FM10 they stil produce a selection of AIs lenses.

Stop it with all the facts and stuff. Leica is the only one that repairs stuff so you should be happy they take 6 months!

;):D

Huss
12-01-2017, 12:06
If Leica wanted to solve their service and QC problems ...they would..but their market does not demand it..so they don't...lol...KA CHING...

of course. The fix is hire more people. But why do that when the fan boyz are cool with being without their bauble for 6 months?

Emile de Leon
12-01-2017, 12:27
Sometimes time and distance..makes the heart ...grow fonder...

Bille
12-01-2017, 12:58
Leica could really take a lesson from Nikon service.

Or not. Leica is heading in the direction of swiss luxury watch brands who treat their customers like this: repairs take months and even simple fixes start at a couple hundred. Does it keep the rich from buying Patek, AP or Rolex? I dont think so.

jaapv
12-01-2017, 18:38
Having owned a business for many years, getting control isn't that difficult. It starts with firing the people causing the issue and hiring new employs. It's called cleaning house and it works.

My honest opinion, Leica is a disaster from the top down. I think a lot of it is simply they are too cheap to put on techs to keep up with repairs. They know the fan boys will put up with months and months of delays and they'll continue with this lack of service until their customers walk away. And, I go back to my core belief that these issues wouldn't exist if Leica had done a better job of designing and execution of the camera. Basically they took the cheap route which is obvious from features like the tiny buffer and LCD.
Hmm..Not that obvious to me. I don't know about the buffer - it is not as if a bit of memory costs more than a few cents extra - there must be another reason, most likely heat management problems when processing large amounts of data. That has been limiting the fully packed bodies of the Leica M series from the M9 onwards.
As for the LCD, I do know it is not a price issue, but the simple fact that a better one is simply not available on the open market in the size and thinness that Leica requires. And they are too small a manufacturer to have a dedicated one made in relatively small numbers.

farlymac
12-01-2017, 19:38
I'm PFM over on LUF, Jaap. You'll usually find me lurking around the R section, though not so much lately. I still haven't decided what to say over there, as I've noted some of the disparaging remarks about Leica USA for any number of issues.

I am glad to have my lens back, and they did a really nice job on it, but at the moment I am in the process of rearranging my apartment, and also my life, so the photography end has been suffering from neglect lately.

I don't make a living at photography (that dream got squashed a long time ago), but I had a studio once, and if that had been one of my more used lenses at the time, it would have been a disaster to have been without it for so long. But back then, Leica USA was considered a premier facility, and these issues would not have come up. It's terrible to see a once respected company squander their good name in order to save a few dollars here and there.

PF

BTW: My avatar photo was taken with the 2.8/28 on an R3. I think it fits my tag line perfectly.

flagellum
01-08-2018, 11:40
It seems Leica doesn't even communicate with established entities it does business with. I have an M4 being repaired at Leica, under warranty through a prominent US camera dealer. It's been close to six months without so much as an update. I've requested updates from the dealer and they are unable to get any response whatsoever, much less any information, from Leica.

How a company can not only treat its customers like this, but outright ignore requests from national camera retailers that keep them in business and contract to them for repairs, is beyond me. They really need to get it together.

sepiareverb
01-08-2018, 12:41
...I have an M4 being repaired at Leica, under warranty through a prominent US camera dealer. It's been close to six months without so much as an update. I've requested updates from the dealer and they are unable to get any response whatsoever, much less any information, from Leica...

Pathetic.

Perhaps that should be the motto for Leica NJ...

Huss
01-08-2018, 12:53
Hmm..Not that obvious to me. I don't know about the buffer - it is not as if a bit of memory costs more than a few cents extra - there must be another reason, most likely heat management problems when processing large amounts of data. That has been limiting the fully packed bodies of the Leica M series from the M9 onwards.
As for the LCD, I do know it is not a price issue, but the simple fact that a better one is simply not available on the open market in the size and thinness that Leica requires. And they are too small a manufacturer to have a dedicated one made in relatively small numbers.


This is too funny! "On the open market"?!! This is a $7000 Leica. What in it was bought on the open market? The body shell? The rf system? The ISO dials? Everything is made to spec, otherwise it wouldn't look, feel, smell, handle like a Leica.
Leica goes to a supplier and says 'we want this'. Supplier says 'it will cost $$$'. Leica says 'give us something that costs $ so we can keep the $$ to make our show rooms prettier and keep the rest as profit'.

The tech excuses are the exact same ones that were made as to why Leica couldn't make a smaller camera than the M240. And then they did. All that is holding them back is profit margin. Once sales start to drop, spec will pick up to renew sales.

Either way, avoid Leica NJ. DAG, Youxin and Sherry Krauter have at least the same # of techs working for them as the official Leica NJ...

ptpdprinter
01-08-2018, 13:08
Sometimes time and distance..makes the heart ...grow fonder...Until you can no longer remember, or something new comes along.

wpm
01-08-2018, 14:35
I had a similar problem with a MM needing a new sensor. It took 6 months with a number of calls to New Jersey toward the end. I nagged a bit but sympathized with their lack of sensors on hand. Doubt I'd jump at using them again. Seriously, if they were more communicative and had a better tracking system, they could tell you where you are on the repair list. I think they are still overwhelmed with sensor issues that extend to Wetzlar and it is what it is. Glad it's back. They adjusted the rangefinder and cleaned it all but left me some free sensor dust.