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tuanbo91
10-15-2015, 00:20
Hello, this is my first post here and I have one question concerns :(

I still wonder why Leica has to use 2 pyramids to make 45 degree reflex? They can also use 45 degree silver glass like Japanese camera.
To compare, most Japanese RF (7sII, QL III and 35SP) have darker view than Leica, but I still have no idea if using 02 pyramids can makes the viewfinder brighter.

Leica:
http://i.imgur.com/Q3nQHY6.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/CqKW2eC.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/GwlfAZ6.jpg

Olympus:
http://i.imgur.com/JtKudQ2.jpg

Canon:
http://i.imgur.com/n3aETqM.jpg

Do you guy have any idea?

Thanks alot!

icebear
10-15-2015, 17:31
It's typical German egineering ;)
Goal is not a design as simple as possible to make it work but to create the best precision construction possible.

Livesteamer
10-15-2015, 17:52
The M3 actually had three different rangefinders over its production life. When the M2 came out it was a simpler design that has carried over into the more modern M cameras. The Germans do seem to build complex designs which makes me wonder how the Soviets would have built an M finder. I know it is a complexity beyond my understanding. Joe

mdarnton
10-15-2015, 19:33
If my Canon P and Canon QL17 GIII are representational, Leica did what they did so that they, also, would not have a terrible finder like Canon's. Looking through the Canon finders, which are similar, one of which I cleaned, myself, one definitely gets the feeling of looking though a lot of glass and filtration material all stacked up and reflecting light. My Leicas are considerably clearer, with none of that feeling.

tuanbo91
10-16-2015, 04:17
It's typical German engineering ;)
Goal is not a design as simple as possible to make it work but to create the best precision construction possible.

If my Canon P and Canon QL17 GIII are representational, Leica did what they did so that they, also, would not have a terrible finder like Canon's. Looking through the Canon finders, which are similar, one of which I cleaned, myself, one definitely gets the feeling of looking through a lot of glass and filtration material all stacked up and reflecting light. My Leicas are considerably clearer, with none of that feeling.

Yes, I know this complex optical engineering makes the view brighter and clearer, but I still don't understand why? :D

One more advantage of this design is for durability, a 45 degree glass is easier to move than a cube.

Logically, the view through the air (like Japanese camera) must be clearer than through glass like Leica, but in fact, Leica viewfinder is superb.

The M3 actually had three different rangefinders over its production life. When the M2 came out it was a simpler design that has carried over into the more modern M cameras. The Germans do seem to build complex designs which makes me wonder how the Soviets would have built an M finder. I know it is a complexity beyond my understanding. Joe

Iskra of CCCP has same viewfinder likes Leica :angel:

JMQ
10-16-2015, 04:49
It's typical German egineering ;)
Goal is not a design as simple as possible to make it work but to create the best precision construction possible.

Klaus, that's very funny and so stereotype of German engineering. I used to work for a German company....it's spot on.

YouAreHere
10-16-2015, 17:10
Perhaps the prisms used in Japanese cameras would not pass Leica's quality inspection. Like lenses, imperfections degrade performance.

Is it 'just good enough' or is it perfect?

sebastel
10-17-2015, 02:14
avoid an additional reflecting surface.

jcb4718
10-17-2015, 04:03
Looking at your diagram 'Leica M3 Rangefinder Optical Diagram' it looks like Leica as a design principle decided to change the directions of the light only using prisms relying on Total Internal Reflection at the (internal) reflecting glass surface. If this glass surface is silvered, its only to keep it in pristine condition and does not itself reflect the light. In contrast, the silver in a silvered reflecting surface does the reflecting. It's never 'total' and will degrade over time if the silvering tarnishes. This may account for the difference in viewfinder brightness.