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rpavich
07-26-2015, 01:15
What IS it about the Leica name that makes grown men do irrational things like lust for an 8 year old Leica M8 when they have a perfectly fine R-D1x that they love?

There is just SOMETHING that Leica is putting in the water that makes rational thought impossible when it comes to ownership.

I have an Epson R-D1x that I dearly LOVE and it's giving me great images. I love everything about it, and yet I've spent the better part of a morning (from 1:30am, I get up early) to now (4:15am) surfing the threads pertaining to M8 worship.

What IS this sickness that Leica can, and does induce???

mfogiel
07-26-2015, 01:19
I can't comment on M8, as I in cameradom don't buy disposable electronics, but Leica has the sexiness that other cameras seldom do have. The closest thing that comes to my mind is a Rolleiflex TLR.

brbo
07-26-2015, 02:48
I have an Epson R-D1x that I dearly LOVE and it's giving me great images. I love everything about it, and yet I've spent the better part of a morning (from 1:30am, I get up early) to now (4:15am) surfing the threads pertaining to M8 worship.

After all this surfing you probably know that between the M-8 and R-D1x, Leica is not the "irrational" one. It's a better camera in almost every way for not much more money.

Keith
07-26-2015, 02:52
Leica = rangefinder

Rangefinder = Leica

This is RFF! :p

astro8
07-26-2015, 03:09
Not all that long ago I was in the same position as you rpavich.

I wanted an M8 after I had my R-D1 for a while for no good reason really, other than it was a Leica.

I'm glad that I managed to stave off digital Leica lust as it allowed me to buy a couple of M2's along with some classic Leica lenses. I also added a Rolleiflex.

Looking back, having an M8 would not have improved my photography. I feel it would have had the opposite effect for the type of photographs I like take - b&[email protected], (mainly) indoors, low light, night, dark and moody.

The R-D1 has remained my favourite. It's fun, it co-operates, I take chances with shots that I never would with my other cameras. It feels a part of me as I'm using it. There isn't much thought process going on as I compose and shoot.

I love the thing. I'll never sell it. If it breaks, I'll buy another.

rpavich
07-26-2015, 04:57
After all this surfing you probably know that between the M-8 and R-D1x, Leica is not the "irrational" one. It's a better camera in almost every way for not much more money.

Lol...except that I HAVE read the threads comparing the two and no...it's certainly not a slam dunk at all.

I don't want to turn this into an argument thread about the M8's superiority..I was just musing on the "magnetism" of the Leica cameras.

jonmanjiro
07-26-2015, 05:01
I was just musing on the "magnetism" of the Leica cameras.

You probably realise this already, but hanging around this place is not gonna help at all!

I'm speaking from personal experience here... as I managed to resist the Leica magnetism for the first couple of years, vowing to stick to my Nikon rangefinders, but I eventually caved and now I have more Leica gear than Nikon rangefinder gear :o

brbo
07-26-2015, 05:37
Lol...except that I HAVE read the threads comparing the two and no...it's certainly not a slam dunk at all.


Use what you have, then.

Unless you are begging RFF folks to talk you into M-8. I'm sure they can... ;)

shadowfox
07-26-2015, 05:45
Own one and be done.

In my case, a Leica M4-P.
The only digital Leica M that would buy is the one that can only take B&W pictures, whatever that's called ME, MM, M34245100, something like that :)

There are so much more to explore in the world of photography other than Leica.

FrankS
07-26-2015, 06:49
What IS it about the Leica name that makes grown men do irrational things like lust for an 8 year old Leica M8 when they have a perfectly fine R-D1x that they love?

There is just SOMETHING that Leica is putting in the water that makes rational thought impossible when it comes to ownership.

I have an Epson R-D1x that I dearly LOVE and it's giving me great images. I love everything about it, and yet I've spent the better part of a morning (from 1:30am, I get up early) to now (4:15am) surfing the threads pertaining to M8 worship.

What IS this sickness that Leica can, and does induce???

What is it with the worship of the Epsom rd1x? It's all the same. Use what works for you and don't fret over what others choose.

rpavich
07-26-2015, 07:25
Use what you have, then.

Unless you are begging RFF folks to talk you into M-8. I'm sure they can... ;)

No..not at all. I was just wondering what kind of witch-doctor mojo the Leica name has to make someone who has a perfectly fine rangefinder lust after a Leica?

But since you brought it up.... :) lol

rpavich
07-26-2015, 07:26
You probably realise this already, but hanging around this place is not gonna help at all!

I'm speaking from personal experience here... as I managed to resist the Leica magnetism for the first couple of years, vowing to stick to my Nikon rangefinders, but I eventually caved and now I have more Leica gear than Nikon rangefinder gear :o

I'm starting to realize that!

Ko.Fe.
07-26-2015, 07:26
M8 has much better crop factor and much higher resulution.
This is the reason why it costs just reasonably more comparing to Epson.

OP, seems to have no money shortage, with buying of two Epsons and Leica lens.
This thread indicates what M9 is making its way already ;)

rpavich
07-26-2015, 07:27
What is it with the worship of the Epsom rd1x? It's all the same. Use what works for you and don't fret over what others choose.

The thread was supposed to be sort of lighthearted...I guess I missed the mark.

rpavich
07-26-2015, 07:28
M8 has much better crop factor and much higher resulution.
This is the reason why it costs just reasonably more comparing to Epson.

OP, seems to have no money shortage, with buying of two Epsons and Leica lens.
This thread indicates what M9 is making its way already ;)

Lol...Oh I have a shortage... :)

I'm desperately trying to get rid of my other Epson! (and then pay off the credit card.)

But the siren song of the M8....

Bill Clark
07-26-2015, 07:34
Can brass be magnetic?

FrankS
07-26-2015, 07:47
The thread was supposed to be sort of lighthearted...I guess I missed the mark.

Yeah, I missed that. Thought it was another Leica bashing/sour grapes kind of thread.

jwicaksana
07-26-2015, 10:11
What irrational thing? It's all completely rational.. :) :)

hendriphile
07-26-2015, 10:16
It doesn't apply only to men! My fiancée was a Nikon/Miranda/Minolta user for many years, still loves her F4 and RB67, but got interested in Leica after seeing some things I was doing with my M3 and trying it out. Then I got her a digital M and vintage Summilux and the slippery slope started. We went to a local store that sells accessories and used gear in order to buy a filter for her Miranda, and before you know it she's looking at a 32-year old R4. It was just so attractive and felt so good in the hand that she negotiated the purchase of it without having a lens to go with it. The owner of the store said, "The former owner treated it with love, but after all these years, let me keep it for a day and I'll put new seals in it." Next day we went back to pick up the body and she ended up negotiating the purchase of a 60mm macro- Elmarit. So now she has a nice Leica kit for under $700. "I always wanted a film Leica since getting to know yours, and this reminds me a lot of my old Minolta and has Leica glass," she says. Now she has her eyes on a 19mm Elmarit.
Gadzooks! What have I unleashed?

rpavich
07-26-2015, 10:29
Yeah, I missed that. Thought it was another Leica bashing/sour grapes kind of thread.

Nooo....not here.

I might lament the price but it is what it is.

rpavich
07-26-2015, 10:30
It doesn't apply only to men! My fiancée was a Nikon/Miranda/Minolta user for many years, still loves her F4 and RB67, but got interested in Leica after seeing some things I was doing with my M3 and trying it out. Then I got her a digital M and vintage Summilux and the slippery slope started. We went to a local store that sells accessories and used gear in order to buy a filter for her Miranda, and before you know it she's looking at a 32-year old R4. It was just so attractive and felt so good in the hand that she negotiated the purchase of it without having a lens to go with it. The owner of the store said, "The former owner treated it with love, but after all these years, let me keep it for a day and I'll put new seals in it." Next day we went back to pick up the body and she ended up negotiating the purchase of a 60mm macro- Elmarit. So now she has a nice Leica kit for under $700. "I always wanted a film Leica since getting to know yours, and this reminds me a lot of my old Minolta and has Leica glass," she says. Now she has her eyes on a 19mm Elmarit.
Gadzooks! What have I unleashed?

Wow...she's a keeper!

daveleo
07-26-2015, 10:40
"Rational" ? . . . . I think probably 25% of my photographic purchases you would call rational. Maybe 10% !
Some things you just do and write them off as life's little adventures.

You don't want to die and look back and say ..... "I should have bought one of those years ago". ;)

B-9
07-26-2015, 10:56
I couldn't pin it Rob, everytime I looked at the RD, it felt like something was missing.

Although the RD is a pleasure to hold and use!

It may be that the Epson looks so much like a Bessa R, you feel a little cheap (although cheap is not exactly a RF word)

rpavich
07-26-2015, 11:02
I couldn't pin it Rob, everytime I looked at the RD, it felt like something was missing.

Although the RD is a pleasure to hold and use!

It may be that the Epson looks so much like a Bessa R, you feel a little cheap (although cheap is not exactly a RF word)

I know..it's like when I played guitar.

Gibson is the top-o-the-heap in the Guitar world (electric guitar)

I always salivated for one, and have bought literally HUNDREDS of others that were worse, the same, or much better....

But the problem is when someone says: "oh...I see you play guitar...what i's that...a Gibson Les Paul?"

You have to say: "...no...it's not a Gibson..."

and they say "...oh....(with this look on their face like you just farted)


And as they are walking away you must say "...but it's better than a Les Paul! You aren't paying for the name..."


But they are already gone.... :(

Michael Markey
07-26-2015, 11:19
Yeah, I missed that. Thought it was another Leica bashing/sour grapes kind of thread.


Yep so did I .. but then I don`t appreciate the dilemma because I never did care for the design of the RD.

Lss
07-26-2015, 11:35
What IS it about the Leica name that makes grown men do irrational things like lust for an 8 year old Leica M8 when they have a perfectly fine R-D1x that they love?
It's not the name, it's the camera. Anything better is considerably more expensive.

ray*j*gun
07-26-2015, 11:39
After all this surfing you probably know that between the M-8 and R-D1x, Leica is not the "irrational" one. It's a better camera in almost every way for not much more money.

I agree. The M8 is a bargain IMO and really a fine camera that does B&W better than damn near anything digital.

Also, however I do confess to the lust of the Barnack version of the magic. I own too many and am always on the lookout for another must have LTM Leica.

Phil_F_NM
07-26-2015, 12:09
My Leica M4 has no magnets.

Phil Forrest

Ronald M
07-26-2015, 13:18
Leicas were cool. Much of the cachet is gone with digital as other cameras have similar to equal imaging.

They used to be quiet and reliable. They tend to be neither now. They are fattened up for sensors so the nice feel is gone. The electronics is garbage compared to my Nikons.

There be diehards who will buy an M because that is what we always used. I have an M8 and 9P.

I used to use film Pentaxes and switched to Leicas because of the image quality. They are definitely not the same. With digital the gap is considerably more narrow.

They are nice to carry as they are small.

Michael Markey
07-26-2015, 13:29
Leicas were cool. Much of the cachet is gone with digital as other cameras have similar to equal imaging.

They used to be quiet and reliable. They tend to be neither now. They are fattened up for sensors so the nice feel is gone. The electronics is garbage compared to my Nikons.

There be diehards who will buy an M because that is what we always used. I have an M8 and 9P.

I used to use film Pentaxes and switched to Leicas because of the image quality. They are definitely not the same. With digital the gap is considerably more narrow.

They are nice to carry as they are small.

I think that's a good summary.
Digital has certainly narrowed the gap and confused the issues too I'm minded.

aizan
07-26-2015, 14:02
- they're well made and designed.
- a lot of great photographers have used them to do their work, so buying a leica means you have the equipment to do great work, too.
- they are a sign of wealth and taste.

uhoh7
07-26-2015, 14:45
What IS it about the Leica name that makes grown men do irrational things like lust for an 8 year old Leica M8 when they have a perfectly fine R-D1x that they love?


Sounds more like a rare burst of logical thinking :bang:

The M8 is worlds above the perfectly nice RD1x, and both versions are among the best cameras in the world today, in the right hands.

M8 will never be a classic because of some loud film snobs who have never gotten over the initial shock of a digital Leica, and more important the crop. OK the need for external filters was a bit much LOL Funny enough, the slight crop makes the camera sensational with lenses like the elmarit v3, which the M9 hates.

This is to everyone's benefit as the camera is now a true steal.

giganova
08-25-2015, 18:10
What IS it about the Leica name that makes grown men do irrational things ...

They invented the 35mm format and have been making high-precision mechanical/optical cameras for ~100 years. Many people simply appreciate these little mechanical masterpieces -- especially in this fast-paced digital throwaway culture we all live in. The high price points gives them the aura of exclusivity, which makes people who own them feel more "special".

dee
08-30-2015, 08:25
I bought my M8 with an inheritance simply because I wanted a digital ANALOGUE vintage style camera !
I use it with a 1950s Summitar and adapted to a Contax Mounted 1959 J3 gifted by Brian Sweeney .
There is nothing remotely rational about this - rational was buying a Minolta XD7 with the excellent 50 f1.4 rather than the sexy Leica version.

mdarnton
08-30-2015, 09:17
I'll be honest about it: for me it's the dorky early-1900s aspect of the system. Who else, until the last wave of stuff in the 90s or so, had a "system" where all the lenses looked totally different from each other and looked like they came out of someone's basement machine shop, for instance. When I started adding a lot of Nikon SLR stuff I started keeping my lenses in baggies, because I couldn't identify which lens I was reaching for by touch anymore as I could with my Leica stuff, which I kept in the cut and seamed-off tops of old socks. There's a certain charm to a system where you can look at the evolution as you can see the additions on an old farmhouse, and Leica is the last camera with that look, still.

As far as function goes, I don't care much. Give me something that feels good in the hand and has the basics of lens opening/shutter speed/focus/film, and I'm happy.

Out to Lunch
08-30-2015, 10:01
As a rangefinder user, the analogue Leica's are not my favorite: they are heavy; you can't see the ISO of your film on the camera; exposure compensation is a joke; bottom feeding film is a headache. The digital M-E produces good results but in comparison of the Epson R-D1X, it fails....the Epson produces many more keepers in ''AE'' mode than the Leica does.

MCTuomey
09-01-2015, 18:55
- they're well made and designed.
- a lot of great photographers have used them to do their work, so buying a leica means you have the equipment to do great work, too.
- they are a sign of wealth and taste.

and they're sexy as a camera can be

M8 will never be a classic because of some loud film snobs who have never gotten over the initial shock of a digital Leica, and more important the crop. OK the need for external filters was a bit much LOL Funny enough, the slight crop makes the camera sensational with lenses like the elmarit v3, which the M9 hates.

This is to everyone's benefit as the camera is now a true steal.

Buy an M8. Add a ZM biogon 28 and c-sonnar 50. The James Brown of Leica kits.

Range-rover
09-01-2015, 19:23
I purchased one a few month a lovely M8 and I think it's terrific, all they did
was take a M7 and stick a digital back on it, and every time I go out and take
pictures with it, it's It's like a different photo experience less in the way of
taking that picture.

tennjed
09-05-2015, 22:21
I just purchased a 56 year old M2 that is in great shape. I do not know if it has had a recent CLA, but it feels and operates as though it is going to operate for another 50 years. My 50+ year old M3 is off for CLA. I expect it will be as nice as the M2 when I finally get it back. My grandchildren will be able to ponder this very same question, i.e. Leica mystique, as they fondle these very same cameras.

Rayt
09-05-2015, 23:00
I can shoot very fast with M rangefinders. I can compose, focus and shoot faster than anything else. With AF SLR I have to worry about focus points. I don't know why others choose Leica but for street there is no better alternative....for me.

Where are the magnets? Are they to keep film flat?

uhoh7
09-06-2015, 00:12
I was never "attracted" by the bodies, it was the RF glass, both Leica and the rest. The Leica history also I love. The bodies made me cringe. But 6 months and many frames, now I'm addicted. I still curse some of the quirks; M9 bloat compared to M6, and that silly shutter.

Today I fully concur with Rayt :)

In superhero speak, Leica is POW!

filmdood
11-15-2015, 13:03
Leica is not a camera any more, it is a brand. Like certain fluffy-haired Presidential candidates. Overblown, overwrought, overpriced, overpraised -- the Marilyn Monroes of camera makers. I used two Leicas professionally, a 3f and an M2r. The first was okay in its time and second one had a lot going for it. But I switched to the Nikon F and got better photographs. I really like rangefinder cameras but I am sans illusions. A camera is a tool and if your monkey wrench don't fit the job, get another one.

Roger Hicks
11-15-2015, 13:35
. . . A camera is a tool and if your monkey wrench don't fit the job, get another one.
An adjustable spanner (the English for "monkey wrench") is something a competent mechanic will normally use only when there is no alternative or when precision is not important. Not really a good example for your argument.

I'd prefer to use the right (precision) tool for the job, thanks all the same.

Cheers,

R.

filmdood
11-15-2015, 13:45
Never owned a spanner, but I come from a long line of folks who work with their hands with monkey wrenches and such. I never ask a mechanic about the brand name of his tools. Would not that be silly? But its a silly world.

KM-25
11-15-2015, 14:00
Leica is not a camera any more, it is a brand. Like certain fluffy-haired Presidential candidates. Overblown, overwrought, overpriced, overpraised -- the Marilyn Monroes of camera makers. I used two Leicas professionally, a 3f and an M2r. The first was okay in its time and second one had a lot going for it. But I switched to the Nikon F and got better photographs. I really like rangefinder cameras but I am sans illusions. A camera is a tool and if your monkey wrench don't fit the job, get another one.

Yeah...except that all year it has been a buyer's market in regards to good clean used Leica gear, that is how I went from just an M3/50 to that and an M6, M240, 35FLE and 28 Elmarit Asph, all for work.

No doubt, new Leica gear has been comically expensive since just before the M9 came out but that does not mean some really talented shooters are not using if for reasons that have nothing to do with brand vanity.

Roger Hicks
11-15-2015, 14:06
Never owned a spanner, but I come from a long line of folks who work with their hands with monkey wrenches and such. I never ask a mechanic about the brand name of his tools. Would not that be silly? But its a silly world.
"Monkey wrench" isn't a brand name. It's an adjustable spanner made by innumerable manufacturers with varying degrees of (im)precision: a crude tool beloved of bodgers who don't have the right tools or who are doing a rough old job. If you knew anything at all about tools, you would know this. But you don't. Do you even know what a monkey wrench looks like?

Cheers,

R.

Vics
11-15-2015, 14:29
I can't comment on M8, as I in cameradom don't buy disposable electronics, but Leica has the sexiness that other cameras seldom do have. The closest thing that comes to my mind is a Rolleiflex TLR.
Exactly. Two times!

hlockwood
12-07-2015, 08:10
No..not at all. I was just wondering what kind of witch-doctor mojo the Leica name has to make someone who has a perfectly fine rangefinder lust after a Leica?

But since you brought it up.... :) lol

Don't ask me. I had (and still have) a lovely Hexar RF for a couple of years, then I bought an M7.
Go figure.

HFL

giganova
12-07-2015, 08:43
There is just SOMETHING that Leica is putting in the water that makes rational thought impossible when it comes to ownership.
I think it's the red dot, maybe it's made of kryptonite?

http://thumbs.ebaystatic.com/images/g/t~kAAOSwgQ9V11Hh/s-l225.jpg

jsrockit
12-07-2015, 08:54
Haptics and ergonomics. Not much else in the camera world feels as good in my hands. Unfortunately, they don't match what I want to do photography wise, so I don;t own them anymore. Still think about them sometimes. I can't say that about any other cameras really.

Oscuro
12-07-2015, 09:13
"Monkey wrench" isn't a brand name. It's an adjustable spanner made by innumerable manufacturers with varying degrees of (im)precision: a crude tool beloved of bodgers who don't have the right tools or who are doing a rough old job. If you knew anything at all about tools, you would know this. But you don't. Do you even know what a monkey wrench looks like? Cheers, R. Hmmm... An adjustable/variable spanner is a crescent wrench, not a monkey wrench. A much finer tool than a monkey wrench. A monkey wrench is designed to bind on to the pipe being rotated. It is also used on couplings but a true craftsperson will not. They will apply the crescent (adjustable/variable spanner) to the faceted coupling/union and the monkey (pipe) wrench to the most likely smooth pipe. A monkey wrench is also referred to as a "Stillson" in some parts of the world. Be careful and precise with words as with tools.

As to Leica, well, when we started out, some of us, reflex cameras just weren't there yet in 135.
When they did get there, many if not most, of us switched. But even though I was a medium-early adopter of reflex (I came from 4x5 in press) I held on to Leica Ms for a long while. They represent a (for me) now passed peak in functionality and reliability. For some, perhaps many, they remain the tool best suited for the work. So perhaps nostalgia and some exploitive marketing is partly a factor.
The Epson is a great little camera. I carry an X100 everywhere but much of what little work I still do in my semi-retirement is done with digital reflex cameras. D3s, D4s, and the like.

Bottom line: if you are affected by the opinions of others you will react to them. If you are affected purely by the work, you will use the tools best suited to you and the work. Most people are somewhere between those two poles.

jsrockit
12-07-2015, 09:30
a crude tool beloved of bodgers who don't have the right tools or who are doing a rough old job.

I was shocked at how precise some if the newer adjustable wrenches are. Very tight and don't move out of range while doing "bodger's work!"

Oscuro
12-07-2015, 09:40
Again, a monkey wrench is a PIPE wrench. It is NOT a variable/adjustable spanner/crescent wrench which is for faceted fasteners/couplers. Two very different things.

Vics
12-07-2015, 09:46
I have waaay too many cameras, and I can't use film anymore, but my lustful eye wanders most often to my M3. It's just the best camera I've ever owned.

jsrockit
12-07-2015, 09:59
Again, a monkey wrench is a PIPE wrench. It is NOT a variable/adjustable spanner/crescent wrench which is for faceted fasteners/couplers. Two very different things.

I agree...so I addressed adjustable. Not sure where you saw Monkey...

Oscuro
12-07-2015, 10:08
I agree...so I addressed adjustable.
And you are quite right. I swung stillsons in the oilfields while doing a post-grad. Mostly breaking or joining down-hole tools. I don't think I laid a hand on anything metric or SAE for a long time. That was the province of the mechanic or the motorman depending on the region. My shoulders still ache.

While everything in our vehicles is matched by a specifically dimensioned tool, the new crescents are spectacular. No back-off and no risk of rounding a fastener. Not cheap. Saw one a few years ago (Klein or Werra, maybe) that had a decent micrometer and torque sensor built in.

Oscuro
12-07-2015, 10:10
I agree...so I addressed adjustable. Not sure where you saw Monkey... and I apologize. I think I fumbled while trying to quote Hicks. Mea culpa.

Oscuro
12-07-2015, 11:00
"Monkey wrench" isn't a brand name. It's an adjustable spanner made by innumerable manufacturers with varying degrees of (im)precision: a crude tool beloved of bodgers who don't have the right tools or who are doing a rough old job. If you knew anything at all about tools, you would know this. But you don't. Do you even know what a monkey wrench looks like? Cheers, R. Well it would appear that I owe Mr. Hicks an apology as well. Though I used pipe wrenches in the American Southwest and they were referred to interchangeably as monkey wrenches, my wife looked over my shoulder and corrected me. Fascinating. A coach wrench. Apparently I don't know anything about tools. Wonder why my shoulders hurt thinking about Texas, Oklahoma, and Wyoming... Truly, Mr. Hicks, a crude tool indeed. Not nearly as elegant and refined as the Stillson. Hah. Except, I imagine, in the hands of a wheelwright. Still not an adjustable spanner. Again, mea culpa.

uhoh7
01-12-2016, 20:16
The things I learn around here :)

Michael Markey
01-13-2016, 01:07
The term "Monkey" wrench is a term used in the UK for all types of wrenches with an adjustable jaw.
Other than that it is non specific.

Roger Hicks
01-13-2016, 03:11
The term "Monkey" wrench is a term used in the UK for all types of wrenches with an adjustable jaw.
Other than that it is non specific.
Dear Michael,

Quite. But few are suitable for precision work, not least because you usually have a choice of reasonably good but bulky ones -- as jsrockit says, "I was shocked at how precise some if the newer adjustable wrenches are. Very tight and don't move out of range while doing "bodger's work!" -- or smaller, lighter ones that are not very precise. Usually there's no room for a good one if you're working inside anything.

There's a design which is (as far as I know) French and is widely used in France as a symbol for "mechanic" or "garage". They're very good but BIG: I have a couple, which I use mainly for plumbing. They look a bit like split-head hammers: there are pictures at https://www.google.fr/search?q=French+adjustable+spanner&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiXvOvE0qbKAhWGVRQKHahRD2EQ7AkISw&biw=939&bih=586 -- the very first pic. is an example and there are more below. The type immediately on its right is generally the floppiest of the screw-adjusted types.

I probably have a dozen or more adjustable spanners, mostly because I love old tools. Some are MUCH more precise than others.

Cheers,

R.

bmattock
01-13-2016, 03:31
I am apparently immune to the siren call of Leica. I think they are terrific, I don't hate them, I just don't have or want one. It's fine either way, people should get what they like.

jszokoli
01-13-2016, 19:05
Here in the U.S. the term Monkey Wrench refered to a specific type of wrench. At this point most people would identify a Stillson Wrench as a Monkey Wrench but...

Below left to right.
1) Cresent Wrench
2) A quite old 'adjustable' wrench
3) Stillson Wrench (a nice old Ridgid 14", small but not tiny, 36" and larger are not uncommon)
4) Monkey Wrench

I sent the better part of an hour digging the Monkey Wrench out of my basement; my father would trirelessly correct me when I would call a Stillson Wrench a Monkey Wrench so I was driven to find the old thing.

Joe


https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1565/23998760669_6b54e1831c_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/CyFVrF)
Wrenchs (https://flic.kr/p/CyFVrF) by szokoli (https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/), on Flickr

Darthfeeble
01-13-2016, 19:32
I think it must be all those glory photographers who used the Leica cameras before us that makes us think the brand will bring to us the glory they seemed to have. HCB, Winogrand, on and on. Glory by association......

Oscuro
01-13-2016, 22:00
I think it must be all those glory photographers who used the Leica cameras before us that makes us think the brand will bring to us the glory they seemed to have. HCB, Winogrand, on and on. Glory by association...... Well it's certainly a healthy dose of that. Same reason a lot of Fenders and Gibsons etc..... At the same time, it's a h&lluva good camera in a rangefinder. Until good reflex cameras came on the market, it (along with a very limited number of alternatives), it was the only game in town if you were working in small format. For some it's still the best tool for the way they work.

David Hughes
01-14-2016, 01:22
...For Americans keeping up with Brit sizes is tough, while I have both metric and Whitworth wrenches for my bicycles, Raleigh bikes manage to use some proprietary sizes which are neither. There are oddly shaped Raleigh wrenches, that only the the country which make Morgans could imagine, quite handy actually...

Hi,

Would you believe that the collection of odd spanners I use on my old Moulton bikes are mostly labelled "King Dick"?

Regards, David

Chromacomaphoto
01-14-2016, 01:24
I can't comment on M8, as I in cameradom don't buy disposable electronics, but Leica has the sexiness that other cameras seldom do have. The closest thing that comes to my mind is a Rolleiflex TLR.

I agree with this, I have a pair of Rolleiflexes with 2.8 Planars in great working order and with the proper hoods and a rolleinar here and there. Really in terms of use, Germanic gestalt, uber optical quality and mechanical engineering...I sometimes wonder why I also have a Leica M system as well. I also much prefer devving MF film to 135 if I'm being honest with myself. Rolleiflex negs are a piece of art in and of themselves.

Roger Hicks
01-14-2016, 05:59
Definitions of tools are certainly more interesting than the usual whining and bitching about how Leicas cost too much, and assertions by amateurs that professionals don't use 'em.

It turns out that what Americans call a "Crescent wrench" is an American trade name and that very similar spanners were made (and patented) long before. The Wikipedia entry has a picture of the kind of French spanner I described, titled "French key", at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adjustable_spanner -- a completely different (and much stronger but unfortunately bigger and heavier) design than the kind made by Crescent, though I can't find any more information on its origins.

And to David: I'm 99% sure that one of my adjustable spanners is a King Dick (I can't be arsed to go and look for it). I certainly have other King Dick spanners and the company (established 1856) is still in business: http://www.kingdicktools.co.uk/info/about-us.asp A single smallish King Dick spanner costs more than some cheap Chinese putty-metal sets: GBP 6-7 (call it $10 US) for one 3/8 AF or 3/16 Whit or 12mm.

Mine are all 50+ years old: I have almost all of my late father's tools, and many more besides. Someday I'll get around to photographing more of them.

Cheers,

R.

Roger Hicks
01-14-2016, 06:06
I agree with this, I have a pair of Rolleiflexes with 2.8 Planars in great working order and with the proper hoods and a rolleinar here and there. Really in terms of use, Germanic gestalt, uber optical quality and mechanical engineering...I sometimes wonder why I also have a Leica M system as well. I also much prefer devving MF film to 135 if I'm being honest with myself. Rolleiflex negs are a piece of art in and of themselves.
Ever used a "baby" Linhof? At least as well made as a Rollei, AND has a rangefinder, AND interchangeable lenses AND a sensible sized negative: at a 3x enlargement a 57x72mm negative should be indistinguishable from a whole-plate contact print.

You can even get a 100/2.8 Planar if you want one, or an Apo Lanthar.

Cheers,

R.

Michael Markey
01-14-2016, 06:07
Dear Roger

I have to agree vis a vis the whining about the cost.

Despite have little personal interest in wrenches I`ve found the discussion interesting.

I too have inherited my late fathers tools .

He was firmly of the bodger school and had every wrenche shown in post 66 apart from the Stillson.

Best
Michael

bmattock
01-14-2016, 06:11
I find it interesting how the camera nerds go off on a tangent about tool nerdery. A more closeted set of pouncetrifles, I never saw.

Seriously guys, you need to get out more. If you were gamers, I'd suspect that more than half of you lived in your mother's basement past age 30 and never went on a date.

I'd say if the brougham fits, wear it, but I suppose then we'd have to endure two pages of replies about the differences in men's shoe styles. ;)

jsrockit
01-14-2016, 06:15
Seriously guys, you need to get out more.

It doesn't take much time to figure out what a tool is called... :rolleyes: and how often are you going out? I have dates all the time, and I'm certainly nerdy (though I have my own place).

Roger Hicks
01-14-2016, 06:21
Dear Roger

I have to agree vis a vis the whining about the cost.

Despite have little personal interest in wrenches I`ve found the discussion interesting.

I too have inherited my late fathers tools .

He was firmly of the bodger school and had every wrenche shown in post 66 apart from the Stillson.

Best
Michael
Dear Michael,

I used to have a 48 inch (length) Stillson that I found in the roof of my previous house but I gave it to a plumber friend.

One of the great things about my tool collection is that it is invariably cheaper to repair whatever I can myself, and often quicker too. A few days ago I stripped and repaired a lock that would have cost me at least 20 euros to replace, to say nothing of a two-and-a-half hour round trip to the hardware store to buy one and probably 30-40 euros to have it fitted. As it was, of course, it went straight back in the 'ole it came out of. Total repair time: under two-and-a-half hours.

The only fancy tool I needed (with a French lock!) was a 3/8 ring spanner (Craftsman). A surprising number of European products still have "legacy" Imperial dimensions, famously including the 26 tpi thread on Leicas (and not 1mm as I once believed it to be).

Cheers,

R.

Roger Hicks
01-14-2016, 06:31
I find it interesting how the camera nerds go off on a tangent about tool nerdery. A more closeted set of pouncetrifles, I never saw.

Seriously guys, you need to get out more. If you were gamers, I'd suspect that more than half of you lived in your mother's basement past age 30 and never went on a date.

I'd say if the brougham fits, wear it, but I suppose then we'd have to endure two pages of replies about the differences in men's shoe styles. ;)
Alternatively, there are those who are interested in the world around them, and who actually use the tools in which they are interested: a bit like camera collectors and photographers.

How are you defining "nerd"? Someone who is interested in something that does not personally interest you? It's true that I don't go on dates any more but that's because I've been very happily married for 33 years.

And -- sorry, you asked for it -- in English the word Brougham implies a light four-wheeled horse-drawn carriage, or a type of car body: I've never heard of Brougham shoes. Perhaps rather than getting out more you should stay home and read more.

Cheers,

R.

Oscuro
01-14-2016, 06:35
I think mattock might have meant "Brogue".
In wit's case, he might have been ironic. The wrenching fit.

aizan
01-14-2016, 06:35
if the brogues fit...damn autocorrect!

Chromacomaphoto
01-14-2016, 06:51
Ever used a "baby" Linhof? At least as well made as a Rollei, AND has a rangefinder, AND interchangeable lenses AND a sensible sized negative: at a 3x enlargement a 57x72mm negative should be indistinguishable from a whole-plate contact print.

You can even get a 100/2.8 Planar if you want one, or an Apo Lanthar.

Cheers,

R.

No I haven't Roger but it sounds like I would very much like such a thing.

Roger Hicks
01-14-2016, 06:54
It doesn't take much time to figure out what a tool is called.... . .
But clearly, it does. I'm still learning, cf. "French key". I like learning. As for getting out... Well, this morning I was in Loudun, with its 1000 year old castle (built by the same man who built the local castle a few hundred yards from my house) and famed (or notorious) for Urbain Grandier who was burned at the stake in 1634, principally at the behest of Cardinal Richelieu.

Of course it is possible to dismiss the castles as "just old buildings" and to exist in complete ignorance of Grandier (and the play about him by Huxley) and even of Richelieu; and very few people will know that the French press owes a great deal to Theophraste Renaudot (1586-1653), also of Loudun.

Some people are interested in everything, and regret that they do not have time to learn more. Others are proud of their ignorance. Sorry for the rant, but I just don't understand how people can dismiss interests on history, technology, UK/US linguistic differences, and more, as being akin to gaming. Knowledge is self-stoking and open-ended: most answers raise further questions. It's not a closed system like a computer game.

An entirely fair question is why I am wasting time explaining this, but the answer is that it's displacement activity: I should be working on a website. The content of websites often fascinates me, but I detest the drudgery of dealing with Wordpress.

Cheers,

R.

Roger Hicks
01-14-2016, 07:03
No I haven't Roger but it sounds like I would very much like such a thing.
Half way down http://www.rogerandfrances.com/subscription/ps%20large.html there's a Tech IV outfit, though my current "baby" is a stripped-down Technika 70: go to http://www.larry-bolch.com/linhof/ and you'll see pictures of an unmodified camera. They're not even terribly expensive, at least by Leica standards.

Unlike medium-format Alpas. Do you know about those? My wife's favourite combination is 35mm on 6x9cm; I prefer a 38mm Biogon on 44x66mm...

Cheers,

R.

Mike Fish
01-14-2016, 07:13
..and very few people will know that the French press owes a great deal to Theophraste Renaudot (1586-1653), also of Loudun...
Cheers,

R.

And fewer still may know the French Press (of the coffee brewing type) owes it's existence to Attilio Calimani, an Italian designer.

A new piece of knowledge leads to curiosity, which leads to research (or at least google) and so it begins again...

-mike

goamules
01-14-2016, 07:55
And then there is the famous Plierench [sic]:

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1475/24377339225_f07fbe8000_c.jpg

Capt. E
01-14-2016, 07:57
My first Leica was a IIIF back about 1975 and it got me inspired to build my first dark-room and eventually get into large format 4x5 and 8x10. That wholly manual camera began my photographic education. Since then, I have owned several Leica M's, M-3, M-4, M-6 and a number of lenses, buying and selling over the years. Currently I own an M-6 with 24 Elmarit, 35 Summicron, 50 Summilux, 90 Elmarit-M. Funny enough, my current favorite is a Nikon S-2 outfit. Money has kept me from progressing further into the Leica digital era and the fact that they really don't measure up to some other modern cameras such as Fuji. I think the new Monochrome may be an exception. There is something extremely pleasurable about using a finely made machine and the feel of my M-6 (or an M-3 etc) and the sound of the shutter is unequaled.

bmattock
01-14-2016, 08:00
What REAL MAN isn't interested in tools?

I don't have any special affinity for tools, but it's not the 'tools' thing I'm laughing at. It's the pontification on the correct names, proper usage, and so on. Hilarious.

As to being a 'real man', been there, done that. I don't need to prove a thing. My 'tools' were automatic weapons and things which explode, while wearing the livery of my nation. :D

David Hughes
01-14-2016, 08:08
Hi,

So we start with Leica, go on to monkey wrenches, then how often we should get out, then the dates we get and a bit of swanking about our tools...

Like I said, it's worrying.

Regards, David

David Hughes
01-14-2016, 08:14
If you aren't interested in tools just say so. :)

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=103649&stc=1&d=1452784234
My aluminum Ridgid pipe wrenches, and other tools Bill finds silly.

1st prize to the first nerd to identify the far left plumbing wrench.

Tell us what the prize is first; my nerd status is a bit fragile at the moment.

Regards, David

PS Anyone voting for those superb and extra long lasting Lindström tools from Sweden? Mine were my father's so about85 to 95 years old...

Roger Hicks
01-14-2016, 08:29
I don't have any special affinity for tools, but it's not the 'tools' thing I'm laughing at. It's the pontification on the correct names, proper usage, and so on. Hilarious.

As to being a 'real man', been there, done that. I don't need to prove a thing. My 'tools' were automatic weapons and things which explode, while wearing the livery of my nation. :D
You don't like the idea of precision in communication, then? And it doesn't interest you at all that English and American are not quite the same language? For that matter, I'd suggest that the whole of your second paragraph rather indicates that you do, in fact, feel a need to boast about your (definition of) masculinity.

Cheers,

R.

Roger Hicks
01-14-2016, 08:33
And fewer still may know the French Press (of the coffee brewing type) owes it's existence to Attilio Calimani, an Italian designer.

A new piece of knowledge leads to curiosity, which leads to research (or at least google) and so it begins again...

-mike
Dear Mike,

Superb! First class displacement activity! Now I need to know more about both French Press coffee machines and Attilio Calimani. Of course this makes me much less of a man than someone whose "tools were automatic weapons and things which explode, while wearing the livery of my nation."

Cheers,

R.

Roger Hicks
01-14-2016, 08:39
And then there is the famous Plierench [sic]:

Dear Garrett,

Love it!

Surprisingly few tools are completely useless. Is this one of them?

For the last few years I've been buying all kinds of old kitchen tools, several of which seem to have been made in Chicago. Some of my favourites (not from Chicago) are patent oyster openers. I'm still trying to find the patent oysters, though. The ordinary sort open best with a plain oyster knife. Even the electric oyster knife (I have one) is no improvement.

Cheers,

R.

Roger Hicks
01-14-2016, 08:54
While looking for my most recent strange adjustable-jaw device -- more of a gas-grip than a wrench, akin to the second from the left in Fred's picture -- I came across something I'd forgotten I had: a tool for setting the angle of saw teeth. Things like this are fascinating in a throwaway society: the idea that the very tools themselves can be repaired and re-used instead of being "upgraded" every year or two, or simply being chucked out like a cheap saw. Much like a decent camera, really. I also have a huge pair of blacksmiths' tongs that is handy for straightening Land Rover bumpers.

Most people I have ever met who take their craft seriously are fascinated by the tools of their trade, especially historic ones, and of others' trades. I like to be able to discuss such things with carpenters, blacksmiths, steam engineers, motor mechanics and more. They often know more than I do but I can always learn.

Cheers,

R.

bmattock
01-14-2016, 09:00
Dear Mike,

Superb! First class displacement activity! Now I need to know more about both French Press coffee machines and Attilio Calimani. Of course this makes me much less of a man than someone whose "tools were automatic weapons and things which explode, while wearing the livery of my nation."

Cheers,

R.

Nice to see you again too, Roger. Let's not do this. I concede and withdraw. Have a lovely day.

It's the pontification on the correct names, proper usage, and so on. Hilarious.

I was trying to find a snappy, slightly funny answer, but Roger pretty much summed it up for me. :)

I was trying to find a snappy, slightly funny answer to your disrespectful pontification about other's hobbies, and in some cases carreer use, of plumbing tools but nothing came to mind. :)

See David Hughes response.


Yes, I apologize for being rude. I will attempt to not do that so much in the future.

Yes, I apologize for being rude. I will attempt to not do that so much in the future.

Well yes, one would think a Jarhead would respect another man's weapons and skills. Not doing so would seem foolhardy.

Well yes, one would think a Jarhead would respect another man's weapons and skills. Not doing so would seem foolhardy.

I apologize a second time.

I apologize a second time.

Of course accepted. :)

Capt. E
01-14-2016, 09:09
Ok, I'll jump in...I could never get along without channel lock pliers. Greatest tool ever

goamules
01-14-2016, 10:17
The Plierench has some very novel features. The jaws remain parallel. You can squeeze for as much pressure as you want, and the jaws don't close at an angle like most pliers, requiring you to change sizes. With this, you have ratcheted jaws, that lock into the position you need (see the bar coming out the side). They're very useful, and were made for many decades.
More:
http://forum.multitool.org/index.php?topic=47985.0
http://www.papawswrench.com/vboard/index.php?topic=5415.0

They would probably work on the proverbial Patent Oysters too.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1675/24379737705_45339fb855_c.jpg

Michael Markey
01-14-2016, 11:28
I think mattock might have meant "Brogue".


If he did the shoe is of Irish origin .
The perforations allowed water to drain out of the shoe when crossing the bogs.

That much I knew .

I didn`t know that the word brogue came into English in the late 16th century and derives from the old Irish "brog" meaning shoe.
This in turn derives from the old Norse "brok" ( as many old Irish words seem to) meaning leg covering.

Roger Hicks
01-14-2016, 14:54
The Plierench has some very novel features. The jaws remain parallel. You can squeeze for as much pressure as you want, and the jaws don't close at an angle like most pliers, requiring you to change sizes. With this, you have ratcheted jaws, that lock into the position you need (see the bar coming out the side). They're very useful, and were made for many decades.
More:

They would probably work on the proverbial Patent Oysters too. . . .
Dear Garrett,

Wow! Sounds fascinating! Many of these old tools fall into one of categories:

1: Why did ANYONE, EVER, invent that?

or

2: Why did they stop making it? (The answer is usually that the company folded for other reasons OR the tooling wore out/was lost).

Frances loved the shot and said, "Can we get a print?"

(We inherited quite a few tools from her father too, another skilled fitter and turner).

If I can find a few dozen Patent Oysters and a Plierench it will certainly join the list of tools to try.

Cheers,

R.

alan davus
01-14-2016, 15:59
If you aren't interested in tools just say so. :)

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=103649&stc=1&d=1452784234
My aluminum Ridgid pipe wrenches, and other tools Bill finds silly.

1st prize to the first nerd to identify the far left plumbing wrench.

Looks to me like a well used, what we call "pillar cock spanner" Downunder.

Darthfeeble
01-14-2016, 16:28
Is this the all time, world's record thread hi-jack??

Oscuro
01-14-2016, 16:56
Is this the all time, world's record thread hi-jack??

I just painted my wife's toenails. 3mm horsehair brush. Cardinal red. Silver undercoat. Clear topcoat.

I was wearing Zegna. Was. She hasn't been wearing any clothes all day. Pretty productive - she did our taxes and wrote two proposals for a couple of agencies. Good at that.

lukitas
01-14-2016, 17:35
I just painted my wife's toenails. 3mm horsehair brush. Cardinal red. Silver undercoat. Clear topcoat.

I was wearing Zegna. Was. She hasn't been wearing any clothes all day. Pretty productive - she did our taxes and wrote two proposals for a couple of agencies. Good at that.

I want to know more.

telenous
01-14-2016, 23:53
What IS it about the Leica name that makes grown men do irrational things like lust for an 8 year old Leica M8 when they have a perfectly fine R-D1x that they love?

There is just SOMETHING that Leica is putting in the water that makes rational thought impossible when it comes to ownership.

I have an Epson R-D1x that I dearly LOVE and it's giving me great images. I love everything about it, and yet I've spent the better part of a morning (from 1:30am, I get up early) to now (4:15am) surfing the threads pertaining to M8 worship.

What IS this sickness that Leica can, and does induce???

They are the right sort of camera for certain applications. Being "right" means you've got the equipment side of the photo equation out of the way. But that doesn't explain the "irrational" part you talk about. To my mind, the following does:

I think it must be all those glory photographers who used the Leica cameras before us that makes us think the brand will bring to us the glory they seemed to have. HCB, Winogrand, on and on. Glory by association......

The history of a brand is important, all the more so when it is full to the brim with success stories. From the young lad wearing the football shirt of his favourite player to the roadie to the grown up leaving a yard sign of support for a candidate long after a succesful election, there is such a thing as basking in reflected glory. It's common human behaviour and an innocuous one at that, insofar as one doesn't become completely delusional about their own achievement or that of others with the purpose of boosting their identity. I am sure Leica is aware of all that, certain ads suggest so (sometimes quite unsubtly).


.

Tijmendal
01-15-2016, 01:44
Let me get on topic here (weird, I know...), but for me it just feels... right. Just the other day I caught myself - for the first time - feeling some sort of weird obsession with my M('s).
I don't care much for Leica as a brand. The R's, Q's, X's, S, SL, T and whatever other lines there are, are undoubtedly incredible cameras, but for me, the Leica M is something special.
The other day I showed my (new to me) Leica MP to my classmates and I felt a little ridiculous explaining that I dished out so much money for such a 'primitive' camera, even though I got a ridiculous deal on it.

Oscuro
01-15-2016, 11:27
I want to know more.
Sorry for the late reply - I was...uh, busy...

David Hughes
01-16-2016, 10:26
From the UK's 1946 report into how Leicas were made: "In the assembly of the shutter fast-range escapement one component after another was tried till one was found that worked in a fairly satisfactory manner and then various minor alterations were made to it by filing, and in some cases, a light tap with a small watch-makers hammer... "

Regards, David

Oscuro
01-16-2016, 11:31
From the UK's 1946 report into how Leicas were made: "In the assembly of the shutter fast-range escapement one component after another was tried till one was found that worked in a fairly satisfactory manner and then various minor alterations were made to it by filing, and in some cases, a light tap with a small watch-makers hammer... " Regards, David

Ah. There you have it. Whack something ferrous often enough with something else ferrous and, often as not, presto! It's magnetized. Inherently then, due to material, process, and er... Leicas are magnetic!

Roger Hicks
01-16-2016, 15:32
From the UK's 1946 report into how Leicas were made: "In the assembly of the shutter fast-range escapement one component after another was tried till one was found that worked in a fairly satisfactory manner and then various minor alterations were made to it by filing, and in some cases, a light tap with a small watch-makers hammer... "

Regards, David
Dear David,

Ah, you have a copy too. Apparently it's quite rare and valuable now. Fun, innit?

Cheers,

R.

johnf04
01-16-2016, 17:58
Looks to me like a well used, what we call "pillar cock spanner" Downunder.

I'd say you're right. Newer versions are still available.

Chromacomaphoto
01-16-2016, 18:51
There's just something so funny about this thread, how it started, where it has ended up and 'blokes' in general. I'm enjoying it immensely but I'm not sure if the OP is entirely satisfied. :rolleyes:

David Hughes
01-17-2016, 02:26
Dear David,

Ah, you have a copy too. Apparently it's quite rare and valuable now. Fun, innit?

Cheers,

R.

Hi,

FWIW, when I typed it I wondered how long it would be before the internet turned it into a report about the crude methods used by FED and KMZ because, as we all know, Leitz would never have done a thing like that...

Regards, David

David Hughes
01-17-2016, 02:38
What REAL MAN isn't interested in tools?

Hi,

Trouble is; real men don't need/bother with instruction books...

Regards, David

David Hughes
01-17-2016, 05:01
Hi Chromacomaphoto,

You must blame Leica because, as the opening post said, " ...the Leica name ... makes grown men do irrational things... ".

'nuff said?

Regards, David

citizen99
01-17-2016, 05:52
Being a bit reluctant to abandon the topic swerve ;) ...
Looks to me like a well used, what we call "pillar cock spanner" Downunder.
... I'm too late to claim the prize for first identification, but I've got one somewhere, and I *used* it once :D .