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old 01-19-2012
steveyork
Registered User
They should've reorganized their debt a long time ago. This was inevitable.
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old 01-19-2012
steveyork
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by kode View Post
I am pretty sure there is quite the gradation between having patents and defending them when competitors do not license them, and being a patent troll existing solely to sue every other company making anything resembling anything in your patent portfolio. Proving prior arts to patents a patent troll has filed can in some cases be a pretty costly process, and the practice of patent trolling does in no way encourage the development of new technology. Kodak isn't the worst offender by a long shot, but they do partake in the practice somewhat. The last weeks, Kodak has sued both Samsung and Fujifilm for, e.g., for a patent sounding a lot like what "live view" is, taking still photos while previewing a motion capture.
In the legal system, here in the US, and probably the UK too (and any system derived from the Brits), you most likely risk losing your rights if you don't defend your patents. I don't think you can just sit on your hands and do nothing.
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old 01-19-2012
Snacks
Registered User
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old 01-19-2012
2lookdown
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Murphy View Post
Glad to see them gone. Any company going around trying to shake down other companies for tribute the way they do needs to go bankrupt. Kodak actually patents such incredible innovations as computers sending other computers data (in 2007 no less). They are pathetic.
Shame on you. Kodak makes perfect film, Apple makes nice things for someone. Everybody likes Apple but almost nobody blames Apple for patent trolling around Samsung on the Apples peak of popularity/profit.
Just someone blames ill-formed US patent system.
Do you really know details about last suing between Apple & Samsung?
Apple & US patent system are just dumb, but nobody cares. And the Kodak is a monster of course...ha-ha
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old 01-19-2012
jsrockit
Moderator
Many people look down upon Apple's practices.
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old 01-19-2012
dcsang
Canadian & Not A Dentist
I just want my film - I don't care about patents, "Patent Trolls", the patent system or any of that - I can't control that - but what I can control is buying film - so as long as I can still buy Tri-X, Portra and a few other ones; I'll be happy.

Selfishly,
Dave
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old 01-19-2012
lonelyboy
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riverman View Post
They've filed for Ch 11, not Ch 7. So they have not gone into liquidation. In effect Ch 11 allows the insolvent firm to discriminate between its finance creditors and its trade creditors. Business will continue as Kodak seek reorganisation/restructuring. It seems as if half of all US airlines are in Ch 11 half the time! It's still a sad day and query whether the film biz will survive. If i could pick one Kodak product to save it would be ektachrome but i'm not holding my breath.
Yes, you are right. Kodak is filing for bankruptcy protection Ch 11, not in bankruptcy. The objective of Ch 11 bankruptcy protection is to make the company to have uninterrupted operations, not stopping and liquidating it.
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old 01-19-2012
kode
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveyork View Post
In the legal system, here in the US, and probably the UK too (and any system derived from the Brits), you most likely risk losing your rights if you don't defend your patents. I don't think you can just sit on your hands and do nothing.
But you do not see a gradation between defending patents and frivolous litigation?
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old 01-19-2012
keytarjunkie
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by claacct View Post
Airlines are in the business of selling an inelastic product, while Kodak is in the business of selling outdated and sub par products that no one wants anymore. Their film business is miniscule but the rest of Kodak's products are crap by all standards; therefore, this Ch11 bankruptcy is the official end of Kodak - unless they come up with some revolutionary product(s) overnight, they're finished.
I don't know...if they restructure and shed some weight, and especially if they sell some patents/sue more people they could come out with another few years left in them. And then maybe they'll create a decent digital product.

I think it's still possible for a company to produce mostly film products in this day and age, but it's a very small niche market and Kodak is way too big to be handling it properly. On the bright side, if Kodak folds, many will turn to Fuji and that will help keep their film profits up. I just talked to a Fuji rep who told me that if Kodak were to go under, Fuji would reconsider producing films such as C41 4x5 film (only portra and ektar right now) and other stuff.
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old 01-19-2012
Sparrow
Stewart McBride
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveyork View Post
In the legal system, here in the US, and probably the UK too (and any system derived from the Brits), you most likely risk losing your rights if you don't defend your patents. I don't think you can just sit on your hands and do nothing.
Why blame us for US propensity for malicious prosecution, Kodak has been a predatorily litigant for many years now
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old 01-19-2012
sc_rufctr
Leica nuts
Tragic... I can't help but feel a real sense of loss.
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old 01-19-2012
PatrickONeill
Registered User
while I doubt this means the end of the kodak film line, ordered some more tri-x just to be on the safe side.
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old 01-19-2012
FrozenInTime
Registered User
Bought some more Portra 160,400 and Tri-X as assurance of supply - just incase there is panic buying ... not that that's what I'm doing

Don't really care for or believe there is future for any of their printer or camera products in a highly saturated consumer marketplace.
Perhaps there is more hope for the commercial side of the company.
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old 01-19-2012
David Murphy
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2lookdown View Post
Shame on you. Kodak makes perfect film, Apple makes nice things for someone. Everybody likes Apple but almost nobody blames Apple for patent trolling around Samsung on the Apples peak of popularity/profit.
Just someone blames ill-formed US patent system.
Do you really know details about last suing between Apple & Samsung?
Apple & US patent system are just dumb, but nobody cares. And the Kodak is a monster of course...ha-ha
I read a couple of their "patents" - they could have been written by any bright teenager - they are a joke. Everything in them is a rehash of the obvious. Kodak is a disgrace. I have no special love for Apple - they may well be doing the same thing.
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old 01-19-2012
SimonSawSunlight
userabuser
I don't care about the company (as in THE kodak), so long as SOMEBODY keeps making some sort of tri-x. please. please. please.
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old 01-19-2012
jsrockit
Moderator
I love how many hate Kodak the company and its practices, but continue to use Tri-X (not a dig at you SSS). If I only used products by companies I like, I wouldn't be using much.
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old 01-19-2012
Sparrow
Stewart McBride
I've not used any Kodak produces for over ten years now ... I decided there was no point supporting a loser ... and I was right
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old 01-19-2012
David Murphy
Registered User
I like their film. They are clueless as to their real base of fans and users however (like many companies stuck in the realm of legacy products). Kodachrome was a treasure and a gem that could have been exploited to great profit and goodwill with wiser owner connected to the artistic fan and support base.

We can only hope that some entity who understands the niche film (and probably larger cine) market takes over those products, but I'd not bet on that.
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old 01-19-2012
batterytypehah!
Lord of the Dings
I really don't understand how this thread came to be a discussion about the ethics of patent litigation. It doesn't matter one bit if any of us like it or not, it's an "any port in a storm" situation for the company.

Some of us remember a little outfit called Polaroid that got a few more years of life (and, unfortunately, self-complacency) out of winning a big patent lawsuit. Against Kodak, of course.
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old 01-19-2012
totifoto
Registered User
Hope Tri--x wont die

What about the Arista Premium? They are somesort of rebranded Tri-x, right? Where they made by Kodak?
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old 01-19-2012
bhop73
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by totifoto View Post
Hope Tri--x wont die

What about the Arista Premium? They are somesort of rebranded Tri-x, right? Where they made by Kodak?
Yeah, Arista Premium 400 is Tri-X.. I'm planning to fill my fridge with it this weekend...
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old 01-19-2012
Sparrow
Stewart McBride
Quote:
Originally Posted by batterytypehah! View Post
I really don't understand how this thread came to be a discussion about the ethics of patent litigation. It doesn't matter one bit if any of us like it or not, it's an "any port in a storm" situation for the company.

Some of us remember a little outfit called Polaroid that got a few more years of life (and, unfortunately, self-complacency) out of winning a big patent lawsuit. Against Kodak, of course.
I was once advised by my chairman to "stick to the knitting" at a time of corporate adversity ... perhaps Kodak would have been better attending to their own business instead of suing others, no?
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old 01-19-2012
shadowfox
Personal Photography
Who would be interested in buying Kodak's film division?
Who is big enough to do that?
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old 01-19-2012
raid
Dad Photographer
Kodak stands for quality films. That is how I have been seeing this company. Something went wrong there.

The top products have been Kodachrome and Tri-X.
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