Will there be a R5 in Cosina's future?

[richardhkirkando]

Originally Posted by wlewisiii

I'd be happier if they'd make nice value price LF lenses. Something on the order of a 150/5.6 Symmar convertable or even a single focus Tessar design that has enough coverage on 4x5 for movements but doesn't kill the wallet like most modern glass does.

Hmm, I think I could get on board with this.

That said, I suspect that CV may be doing more lenses designed for smaller sensor digital cameras in the future, like the new 25/.95 for micro 4/3. This isn't a bad thing IMO - I do own a DSLR, but I rarely use it because 1) I don't like SLRs that much, and 2) the FOV I get from all of my lenses feels weird to me. If I want a fast, "normal" lens for a APS-C camera, I most likely have to buy a fast wide-angle lens designed for 35mm. Which, of course, are A LOT more expensive than a 50mm for most systems.

But with new cameras like m4/3 and the Sony NEX, along with CV releasing fixed-length lenses actually designed for these, I may be tempted to make use of digital in the future.

[noimmunity]

All of the Bessas except the T could benefit from a longer RF baseline, but that would certainly compete with the ZI, which doesn't make sense from a marketing point of view.

I've said this before: bring back the Bessa T, and add a self-timer.

[DNG]

Originally Posted by stupid leica

i think the next bessa should have a major redesign, to accomodate a longer EBL.

That would do it for me.
*A longer RF base
*A VF Upgrade to include 28mm
*Maybe a deeper Eye relief to allow for eyeglass wearer's to see the 28mm Frame lines easily.

[antiquark]

Originally Posted by ZeissFan

If Cosina wants to do something, how about making a robust rangefinder that doesn't arrive out of kilter?.

Along those lines, the Bessa's also have a bad reputation for shutter reliability. Just google for "voigtlander shutter jammed" to see how common the problem is.

[aizan]

Originally Posted by shadowfox

I'd settle for a Bessa TLR.

a new voigtlander brilliant? sign me up!!!

[John Robertson]

Originally Posted by Tompas

Quite a lot of fantasies come true, didn't you notice?

so do nightmares!!

[sper]

Originally Posted by ZeissFan

If Cosina wants to do something, how about making a robust rangefinder that doesn't arrive out of kilter?

Otherwise, it's about as mature as it's going to get, unless they get Copal to create a shutter that isn't such a clap-trap. Nice little cameras with terrific value, but they still are a bit unrefined, considering that they're well past the start-up phase.

All three of my Bessa's have never acted up on me, and my rangefinders have never gone out of alignment. My long-term-borrowed M8 gave me more trouble than any CV product ever has.

And the most reliable cameras I've ever owned have been Nikons.

Just saying, experience is pretty subjective here. Sh*t happens. (just seems to happen a lot more to the Leica stuff I've used in my experience...bahaha)

[Juan Valdenebro]

Originally Posted by Tompas

Quite a lot of fantasies come true, didn't you notice?

But most of them are not virtual...

"A fantasy" is a given name... To some people a digital Bessa or the Fuji X100 are a fantasy came true, but to other people they mean just nothing... A
Just another small digital camera used to avoid film... I guess the OP was referring more to an evolution inside their great film line... In any case, I wouldn't call R5 a digital one...

Cheers,

Juan

[Juan Valdenebro]

Originally Posted by lilmsmaggie

Considering that we are all just "fantasizing," and some of you have offered up what they might want to see in a new camera from Cosina, let's continue on our fantasy trip and say "IF," Zeiss offered a Ikon ZM for $100 more than the Bessa RXX; would you still respond the same way?

Or lets take the fantasy one step further (not considering used camera market):

Leica sees an opportunity to increase its market share and improve its bottomline, decides to introduce a less expensive model along the design lines of the M3 - M4, but makes film loading easier just like the Zeiss and CV models, and places a MSRP of $1499 to compete with Zeiss and CV. Their Rationale: Not only can we produce a better camera offering, but we can offer it at a lower price point.

What say you ...

That will happen as much as it's happened before: never.

Cheers,

Juan

[Juan Valdenebro]

[quote=Roger Hicks;1437330]

Originally Posted by lilmsmaggie

Considering that we are all just "fantasizing," and some of you have offered up what they might want to see in a new camera from Cosina, let's continue on our fantasy trip and say "IF," Zeiss offered a Ikon ZM for $100 more than the Bessa RXX; would you still respond the same way?

Or lets take the fantasy one step further (not considering used camera market):

Leica sees an opportunity to increase its market share and improve its bottomline, decides to introduce a less expensive model along the design lines of the M3 - M4, but makes film loading easier just like the Zeiss and CV models, and places a MSRP of $1499 to compete with Zeiss and CV. Their Rationale: Not only can we produce a better camera offering, but we can offer it at a lower price point.

What say you ...[/QUOTE]

I say 'fantasy'.

Zeiss has repeatedly said that a digi cam is not on the cards. Of course they could be lying but I know some of the people involved and I doubt it. Nor can the Zeiss Ikon be reduced to within $100 of the CV cameras, unless they want to sell at a loss.

Making a new camera 'along the design lines of the M3 - M4' is even more of a fantasy, especially at $1499. How are they going to do it? And where? SKILLED labour, remember. Go to the Leica factory and see for yourself. As far as I recall, an MP takes 2-3 hours longer to assemble than an M9. How is your fantasy camera going to save time here?

And how is your fantasy camera better than a classic M? Film loading easier? Hardly. Only, in fact, if you are suffering from severe hardening of the categories.

This is the classic fantasists' argument of "I'll buy a Leica when they stop making Leicas," with the added fantasy of "...and reduce the price by 2/3". Does anyone REALLY think this is likely?

Cheers,

R.

I doubt it... The market wouldn't allow it, to anyone basically, and Leica -precisely- has never been interested in showing that behavior, but exactly in the opposite one... So, fantasy at its purest gradation...

Cheers,

Juan

[rover]

Originally Posted by stupid leica

i think the next bessa should have a major redesign, to accomodate a longer EBL.

Amen to that. One camera that you can comfortably use with a 35mm lens and super fast 50mm lens. The R2a to me is a very attractive package handicapped by it's short EBL.

[Juan Valdenebro]

Originally Posted by ZeissFan

If Cosina wants to do something, how about making a robust rangefinder that doesn't arrive out of kilter?

Otherwise, it's about as mature as it's going to get, unless they get Copal to create a shutter that isn't such a clap-trap. Nice little cameras with terrific value, but they still are a bit unrefined, considering that they're well past the start-up phase.

Yet it's surprising that RFF members reported more repairs needed for ZI and M7 than for R3A... Not bad for such unrefined cameras, considering ZI's and M7's refinement...

Cheers,

Juan

[rover]

Originally Posted by Juan Valdenebro

Yet it's surprising that RFF members reported more repairs needed for ZI and M7 than for R3A... Not bad for such unrefined cameras, considering ZI's and M7's refinement...

Cheers,

Juan

I assume your source is a thread I am not remembering here at RFF?

[Juan Valdenebro]

Originally Posted by shadowfox

I wonder if Cosina would makes a Barnack-model camera in Bessa-styling, complete with split RF/VF, the size of Leica IIIg.

I might buy that.

I guess for price they didn't put the internal finder in the T, but for sure lots of us would buy that camera too...

Cheers,

Juan

[Juan Valdenebro]

Originally Posted by stupid leica

i think the next bessa should have a major redesign, to accomodate a longer EBL.

The T has longer EBL than Ms... And even with an R4M a 40 can be focused at 1.4... With my R3A I close focus my Summicron 90 wide open perfectly...

I mean, more than focus it's a composition thing to me... I would buy a special "portrait" dedicated Bessa: one with a real big window with individual, clean framelines for 75 and 90... And a bigger patch... A tele Bessa could sell well for a long period of time...

Cheers,

Juan

[Juan Valdenebro]

Originally Posted by rover

I assume your source is a thread I am not remembering here at RFF?

Hi Rover,

Yes, a poll here on RFF...

Cheers,

Juan

[Juan Valdenebro]

Originally Posted by rover

I assume your source is a thread I am not remembering here at RFF?

I tried to find the thread for you, but there are only three polls' pages available on "RFF Polls" and those are just the most recent ones (since August...) but maybe there are other ways to localize it...

I started that poll asking members which AE interchangeable lenses RF cameras they used, and if they had any damage/repair, and the most problematic was the ZI, being the M7 in the middle and the most reliable one the R3A... I think more than 100 voters... I don't want to look like insisting in the R3A being better, but at least being just as good... I shoot -among others- with four used and new Bessas daily (beach, rain, bumps), two years ago, mechanical and automatic ones (all M mount), and they haven't given me any kind of problem...

Cheers,

Juan

[ashrafazlan]

I'd rather they release a new lens, something wider than 50 and really fast

[ZeissFan]

The Zeiss Ikon was a first generation product, and as you might expect there were plenty of growing pains along the way.

The R3A/4A/4M were third- and fourth-generation products, possibly fifth or sixth, if you count the L and the T, and so rangefinder problems should have been solved by now.

The problems with misalignment in the R could be understood and possibly the R2 (my Rollei 35 RF ... R2 clone has slight vertical misalignment), but they should have been solved by the R3 and R4 models.

And the shutter. While it's not been an outright complaint, it has been something that people have mentioned since the R, and so by now they should have worked with Copal to either damp the shutter or provide some sound deadening in the bodies.

Still, I think they are excellent values for the money, especially for those who want a new camera and/or a less-expensive alternative to the Zeiss Ikon and Leica M.

And the bodies have improved with each successive model. I have no problem recommending the cameras to anyone.

[Mephiloco]

wouldn't be the R5, but an updated fixed lens RF could be fun, though not sure it could be sold at a price point which would rival the canonets etc

[shadowfox]

Originally Posted by wlewisiii

I'd be happier if they'd make nice value price LF lenses. Something on the order of a 150/5.6 Symmar convertable or even a single focus Tessar design that has enough coverage on 4x5 for movements but doesn't kill the wallet like most modern glass does.

Now there's a non-digital fantasy for you that's even less likely LOL!

William

William, I like this idea, let's go further by suggesting for them to create the world's first truly portable 4x5 rangefinder. Accurate rangefinder, a back accepting modern sheet film holders, and a comfortable grip.

Too much to ask?

[Juan Valdenebro]

Originally Posted by ashrafazlan

I'd rather they release a new lens, something wider than 50 and really fast

40 1.4, 35 1.4, 35 1.2, 28 1.9...

Cheers,

Juan

[stupid leica]

Originally Posted by ashrafazlan

I'd rather they release a new lens, something wider than 50 and really fast

Wider than 50 and really fast?

35/1.2
28/1.9 (and 2)
35/1.4
35/1.7


They've got a few already.

What i want from Cosina is a good 50/1.4 built like the 35/1.4 Nokton.

[wlewisiii]

Originally Posted by shadowfox

William, I like this idea, let's go further by suggesting for them to create the world's first truly portable 4x5 rangefinder. Accurate rangefinder, a back accepting modern sheet film holders, and a comfortable grip.

Too much to ask?

Nah, we need the 100 sheet motorized film magazine too.



That's ok, I've got a nice old 6.5" Velostigmat triple convertible coming from a gentleman in Canada. That will keep me playing for a nice long time.

William

[BillBingham2]

I would love to see the R5A/M with a longer lens focus (pardon the pun). Perhaps a 1.5X view finder that bright as every other Bessa. Frame lines say 50/135, 75 and 90. While an updated T would be fun, not sure why. Now if you upgrade the L to take a winder and be M mount and a low price that would work.

An R4A & R5M combo would rock as the two body system. Have a 25/4 & 35/1.2 combo for the R4 and a 75/1.4 & 135/2.8 (coupled of course) and you would be able to handle just about everything. Perhaps a L2A (M mount, Auto, Winder accepting) rear lens cap for a new 15/4.5…..

That’s the kind of finder you need to follow the finder on the R4, world class and world first.

B2 (;->