sigh....2 out of 3 ZM lenses with the wobble

[toyfel]

one out of two for me. Good to hear there is a DIY solution. I might try that.

[lawrence]

Originally Posted by Ronald M

CV has some interesting products, but when the rubber meets the road, they loose.

Sometimes but not always. For example, the 28mm Color-Skoper is (or rather, was) extremely well made and a wonderful performer -- I have been using one since they came out and no problems at all, although the paint did wear off rather quickly (big deal). The 35mm Color-Skopar was not in the same league and I sold it.

[ferider]

If it is the retaining ring don't forget nail polish before you tighten it. Otherwise it will come back.

Only some early CV lenses are known for the same problem (i.e., CV 35 Ultron and 50/1.5 Nokton). And then, typically, some internal screws are loose, not the retaining ring.

Other CV lenses (like the 28/3.5, in particular the chrome one) are very well built. Haven't heard about wobble issues with M mount CV lenses yet. Some early 40 Noktons had tight focus. But that's it. I've personally experienced different performance of several copies of the same CV lens, but assume that is the same for all manufacturers (today that is).

Roland.

[Avotius]

I have a kit of jewelers screw drivers here, I think I will try tightening it with that first and see how it goes, will use some thin rubber or something on the ends of the screwdrivers so I dont ding up the metal or glass just in case.

[Turtle]

Originally Posted by Ronald M

Even if you get them repaired warrantee or no, the basic design is not to leica standards
and the problem will come back at some point.
.

a few people have said that thread lock/nail polish on the threads will prevent this. It does not appear to be a wear issue but a simple thread slipping issue (in most cases).

[jonmanjiro]

I've owned 12 Zeiss ZM lenses and still have two (21/4.5, 50/2).

NONE have had the wobbly barrel / loose retainer ring problem. They've all been fine in that regard (if only the factory used loctite on the retainer rings before shipping the lenses).

I have, however, noticed another completely separate, very minor problem on a couple of my lenses. That problem is a very slight amount of "play" in the focus action before the focus helical takes up the slack when reversing the rotation direction of the focus barrel. I've had this very same problem with Nikkors and other brand lenses, and the cure is to regrease the focus helical. In my case, focus accuracy was not affected so I didn't bother.

[Avotius]

I have noticed this same "slack" in the focusing, it is very very tiny but its detectable and on the rare occasion throws me a bit, but I have also seen this on many other lenses so it does not bother me much either.

[Avotius]

I thought I would give a little update here. I have decided to stop using my 50 Planar until I can have it properly fixed as it feels as if it will fall apart at any moment. Most likely I will sell the lens after having it fixed and purchase a Leica lens to replace it. As it stand now the lens barrel and optical cell act as if there is no lubrication between them and it makes a squeaking rubbing sound as you turn the focus as well as significant contact vibrations. My Zeiss 28mm lens I have stopped using as well and though its loose play is very small, it was not that way when I bought it and after only a few rolls of film has ended up like this. I will sell it off ASAP because it seems that there are many difficulties with shipping them off to be repaired due to China's corrupt customs system. When Zeiss shipped my 2009 photo contest prize to me China customs wanted [150%] 100% of the price of the lens as collateral and cost to prove I would not sell it etc etc....

I emailed Zeiss to see what their recommendations on repairs were but am not too hopeful on a painless solution at this point.

This all does not seem worth the trouble to me. I use these lenses for my professional works and cannot be worried about them like this.

[Krosya]

Sorry to hear this. As I said in my earlier post - Hexanons are a great alternative - much better built, yet cheaper than Leica. May want to look into that.

[Avotius]

Thanks, I am looking into those as well, the largest problem is availability here in China as I dont know when I will make it back to the states next (a while at least) and dont trust international shipping into China (as my friend and I have been recently very painfully been reminded of).

There certainly is no shortage of choice these days.

[sleepyhead]

Originally Posted by Avotius

fantastic, where might one find a spanner wrench for lenses with these tips? I am afraid I may have to splurge because when Zeiss sent me my 21mm lens from that contest, they sent it from germany, and my goodness I got a bill for almost the value of the lens and a "you are required to be at" letter that said I needed to go to the customs office the next city over (360 Kilometers) and this and that. I would very much like to avoid that again. Thank goodness some voodoo magic made the bill disappear but who knows next time....

Sorry to rain on your parade, but I had a 25mm Biogon with the wobble, it was sent back to Zeiss itself in Germany, and it was deemed by them "Unrepairable". They replaced the lens with a new one which I sold right away because I no longer trusted their build quality. 2 of 3 of my Zeiss ZM lenses had the wobble.

[Avotius]

Originally Posted by sleepyhead

Sorry to rain on your parade, but I had a 25mm Biogon with the wobble, it was sent back to Zeiss itself in Germany, and it was deemed by them "Unrepairable". They replaced the lens with a new one which I sold right away because I no longer trusted their build quality. 2 of 3 of my Zeiss ZM lenses had the wobble.

Hm, I misquoted myself. I just pulled out the bill, it was 100% of the cost of the lens, wonder why I remembered it as more. Whatever, my bad.

Anyho, I am not in the most trusting of moods with the build quality of these lenses either. Seems some Voigtlander lenses have had similar issues (which is not surprising I guess) but it seems that it is not as common with them. Curious.

What lens did you replace yours with if you did?

[sleepyhead]

The 25mm Biogon was to use with my Epson R-D1s. I used the money to get a CV 25mm Skopar with plenty of money to spare, so I also bought a CV 28mm f/2 Ultron and 15mm Heliar around the same time.

That was all about a year ago. Now I'm back to shooting all film - so all that stuff: R-D1s and those lenses has been sold. I use 21mm, 35mm, 50mm, 75mm, and 90mm (all Leica lenses) with Leica film bodies now.

[Avotius]

I dont suppose you remember if your CV stuff ever developed any kinds of wobbling? I used to have a CV 35 f2.5 PII and it didnt wobble but I didnt use it much, maybe at most a dozen rolls of film before selling it, which is already twice as much use as my 28 biogon has seen.

I also dont seem to see anyone ever complaining about similar problems with Leica lenses. I am tempted to swap over just for that security.

[sleepyhead]

Originally Posted by Avotius

I dont suppose you remember if your CV stuff ever developed any kinds of wobbling? I used to have a CV 35 f2.5 PII and it didnt wobble but I didnt use it much, maybe at most a dozen rolls of film before selling it, which is already twice as much use as my 28 biogon has seen.

I also dont seem to see anyone ever complaining about similar problems with Leica lenses. I am tempted to swap over just for that security.

Hi again, I've owned loads of CV lenses over the years (although none currently) - all used rather lightly. The only problem I've had with them (2 out of perhaps 12) is that the retaining ring on the front of the lens came loose (a CV 40mm Nokton and a CV 21mm Skopar). This is something that one can fix easily by yourself - I used a paper clip that was un-bent to form a "el cheapo lens caliper" and used that to re-tighhten those rings. They would come loose again periodically and then I would re-tighten them...

In the end, I sold all my CV gear in favour of (fewer) Leica lenses, not because the build quality was bad on the CV lenses - I generally did not like their high-contrast "clinically sterile" look, and I could afford the Leica lenses.

I also find that owning fewer lenses makes things easier when going through the decision making process of which lenses to bring on a trip, etc. Also, I owned lots of different focal lenghts when i had both Film bodies and the R-D1s. Now with only film, things are simpler: I always have a 35mm and 50mm with me. They are my core focal lengths. If i feel like carrying more then I add a 21mm Super Angulon and/or a 90mm Macro Elmar-M (both small lenses). The 75mm Summilux (large) only gets used for special purposes and is not generally carried.

[dfoo]

Why don't you get the lens repaired inside China? I used a repair shop inside a photo mall in Shanghai several times, and they did a great job. Great price too!

[Avotius]

Originally Posted by sleepyhead

I generally did not like their high-contrast "clinically sterile" look, and I could afford the Leica lenses.

This is why I sold my CV 35mm lens too. It was ok for black and white but way too clean looking for color.

I can shift my kit over to Leica lenses as well, I think I would replace the Planar with a pre-asph 50 summilux, one of my dream lenses. Later who knows. Will keep the 21 biogon though, might as well since it was free.

Just waiting on a reply from Zeiss before I decide exactly what to do.

[peter_n]

I haven't bought or even used any of the Zeiss lenses, but I can tell you that I've had problems with most of the recently manufactured ASPH Leica lenses I've bought; the 24, 50, 75 and 90 ASPH and I've complained about all of them previously here and elsewhere. I now have an older 24, the 50 still has a gritty-feeling focus ring, the 75 was replaced and I sold the 90. The two 35s I have are great, one is older, the other a brass lens. If you're considering buying Leica lenses steer clear of the newer lenses as the QC in Solms has been very poor. Leica bodies OTOH seem to be fine, my M7 and MP cams have been perfect. Maybe because they were made in Portugal.

[Ronald M]

I got a new CV 12 when first issued. Walked into Central Camera and there was a CV sales person doing a demo. I put the two lenses on the M6 which already had a Summarit 2.0 on it hence the screw fit. Went home and developed the film and called the store and told them I wanted both lenses.

Someplace during the first roll the 12 focus ring locked up and I repaired it. Then I repaired it again the next week. Been fine since.


The whole issue tells me the design is sub par and so is the assembly.


The 15 was rotated which is no big deal except for the fact the flower shade is fixed.
Off came the screw mount and I was able to remount using different holes. It was a Leitz LTM adapter so that is not an issuue.

Have not bought anything CV since.

[Tim Gray]

Sucks. Sounds like this problem occurs reasonably frequently with ZM lenses. My ZM 35/2 was fine for the year or so that I owned it. Then again, I've never had any lens problems with my 50/1.4 ASPH, 90 Macro-M, CV 15/4.5, CV 28/3.5, or Nikkor 50/1.4. The only lenses I've had problems with were my Leica 28/2 (oil on the aperture blades) and Canon EF 50/1.4 (broken AF - frequent problem with this lens - never set it on its front).

Out of the three 'new' Leica lenses, the only one that has had a problem was the 28/2, which was the only real used lens I bought.

All lenses (and products) can have faults. The kind of faults that really bother me are the ones that are intrinsic to the design or quality control, like the broken AF on the Canon 50/1.4. This Zeiss lens wobble sounds like something similar.

[peter_n]

Here's an interesting Leica 75/2 issue from a while back that apparently affected a batch, I know that my problem with this lens was also common at the time of my purchase. In this case, the aperture ring(s) needed to be set at the side of the lens instead of the top, take a look at the two pictures and the closeness of the serial nrs. We are talking batch problems here, and this on a lens that cost the OP $3295 in January of this year!

That was the second post by the OP because he had gotten a replacement lens with an identical problem. His first post showed the problem a little better and was responded to by none other than Stefan Daniel, Leica's Director of Product Management. As I recall he eventually received a lens that worked and presumably Leica fired the QC persons responsible. Leica have had dodgy QC the last few years so be careful...

[Avotius]

Got the email back from Zeiss, they just said to send them off to Oberkochen for repair. One thing that I was wondering about though, these lenses are all made in Japan, why is the repairs being done in Germany? Whatever, I will ponder the idea of sending at least the 50mm off but it is out of warranty.

[jonmanjiro]

Originally Posted by Avotius

One thing that I was wondering about though, these lenses are all made in Japan, why is the repairs being done in Germany?

Repairs are also being done in Japan. I've sent Zeiss ZM gear to Cosina for adjustment/repair. The Germans will have superior English language skills, so communicating to them what you want checked/repaired will be easier.

[maddoc]

I suppose that Zeiss is aware of the many reported problems about their lenses developing the one or other problem with time and want to see the actual lens before sending it away to Japan for repair. The QC / RD department might want to know if some of the problems are due to a fault in design or production to improve the either or other. Just my guess of course.

I had the 25/2.8 Biogon for a short time (bought used) and no problem at all. My former CV 15/4.5, CV 35/2.5 P II, and CV 50/1.5 were all free from any problems. Also, I never had any serious problems with older Leica gear. On the other hand, both my MP and M7 had problems (MP: shutter fault, electronic, loose rewind knob, sticky shutter button M7: shutter jammed) and needed to be serviced by Leica.

Originally Posted by Avotius

Got the email back from Zeiss, they just said to send them off to Oberkochen for repair. One thing that I was wondering about though, these lenses are all made in Japan, why is the repairs being done in Germany? Whatever, I will ponder the idea of sending at least the 50mm off but it is out of warranty.

[Avotius]

Understandable I guess. I am leaning towards sending it off after I discuss the customs issues with them further. There is a good chance I will get hit with a big customs bill again when it returns to me which is the biggest thing holding me back.