M7 or a Zeiss Ikon ZM?

[notturtle]

mfogiel, The 0.58 body is fantastic for 24-35....

I like the feel of the leicas and they fit my hands. Others think differently; however, it mattered enough to me to get several MPs so the handling is the same on every body. It hurt, but was worth it to me.

I think it is also fair to say that RF misalignment is more frequently reported with the Z1, but that is not a major issue for everyone. I don't want my RF drifting as it will be three months before I can get it fixed. However, the real clincher for me was simply how the thing felt in my hands.

[philipp.leser]

A new ZM comes with a warranty while a used M7 would probably not.

It's a tough decision. While buying a Bessa is usually motivated by their low cost, the ZM is a serious contender to the M7 and looks just as beautiful.

[gavinlg]

I'd go the ZM, because it's a little different, lighter, better VF, higher shutter speeds etc.

I'd have an MP over a ZM but a ZM over nearly everything else.

[ClaremontPhoto]

That's two people who would choose a camera because of how it looks.

Now, should I use Kodak film (yellow box) or Fuji film (green box), which one looks better?

[RichardB]

I have two M7's with older style ASA detection. No problems. They are both 0.85 finders and I use 21mm 2.8 ASPH, 35mm Lux ASPH, 75 ASPH , 90 ASPH and 135mm 2.8. I have the 50mm 2.8M but have never had the need for it. I usually have motor M's on both M7's but do have a Leicavit. Exposure compensation is fast and easy once you learn to depress the shutter button and move the aperature rather than the comp dial. Never had a singe problem and the ergonomics with the Motor M's is superb.
I'm sure the Zeiss is a very well made camera. I have a Zeiss 21mm finder and its very bright well made Japanese component.
But the M7 has more drives available(at least what I ws able to find on the Zeiss site) and coming from M3 and M6 land, just feels good and does what i want when I want with minimal effort. !/2000 versas 1/1000 is really meaningless comparison.
I would advise that you use both in the configuration you will want i.e lenses/motors/Leicavit and then make a decision. Good luck!-Dick

[marke]

Originally Posted by ClaremontPhoto

That's two people who would choose a camera because of how it looks.

Now, should I use Kodak film (yellow box) or Fuji film (green box), which one looks better?

Well now, that all depends on what kind of mood you're in. If you're in a sunny mood, the green box might give all your pictures a magenta cast. Choose wisely.

[Keith]

Impressive that the Zeiss has pulled ahead of the Leica in votes ... because the M7 in reality is a hell of a camera.

It's also interesting the way these two brilliant rangefinders seem to go head to head quite often here on the forum.

[notturtle]

Originally Posted by Keith

Impressive that the Zeiss has pulled ahead of the Leica in votes ... because the M7 in reality is a hell of a camera.

It's also interesting the way these two brilliant rangefinders seem to go head to head quite often here on the forum.

its great we have a choice - between the Bessas, Z1s and Leicas most budgets are catered for. Who would have predicted that 5 years ago? ... and we have the R4A/M, loads of new lenses etc.

[lawrence]

I went for a couple of M6TTLs and both have had wind-on issues, which were fixed by CCR of Luton. I do like having one camera with the 0.58 finder and the other with the 0.72 and I don't necessarily see the additional weight as a drawback as the greater mass leads to greater stability and I love the quietness of the shutter. What cannot stand is the film loading. I know some people can be very fast with this but the technique has eluded me -- I prefer to load my fifty year old Canon L1. I do like the exposure LEDs at the bottom of the finder as they're easy to see, even when wearing glasses.

PS. Sorry, I realise this thread is about the M7 but there are points of similarity between this and the M6TTL.

[MRohlfing]

Get the ZM!

The camera industry needs your money!

What's the use of buying old stuff?

We want to see more great cameras for film from Cosina in the future!

[Rob-F]

I have handled the Zeiss in the store (Central Camera, while in Chicago) but I don't own one. I do own and use an M7. One thing I wanted to point out is that the Zeiss has no 75mm framelines, just in case that's important. And since the 75 brings up the 50mm frame along with the 75, on an M body, I'm sure it will do the same on the Zeiss--and that is not really helpful, since you would have a 50mm frameline for a 75mm lens.

If you wear glasses, check that you can see the 28mm frames well enough before buying.

[Sam N]

The framelines are an interesting point. I (like many people) don't use any RF lenses longer than 50mm, but I think a 35/75 combo might be nice. It seems like the only available m-mount 85mm is the extremely expensive German-made Zeiss. On the other hand, the ZI's VF is less cluttered (only 4 framelines total vs 6).

Another bonus with the ZI is that it never had a problem with patch flare.

Originally Posted by notturtle

its great we have a choice - between the Bessas, Z1s and Leicas most budgets are catered for. Who would have predicted that 5 years ago? ... and we have the R4A/M, loads of new lenses etc.

Agreed, but it's a ZI (Zeiss Ikon) not Z1. I see this a lot with roman numerals (people writing "Canon 1D Mark 111") but the I in ZI isn't even a number.

[kxl]

Originally Posted by Rob-F

I have handled the Zeiss in the store (Central Camera, while in Chicago) but I don't own one. I do own and use an M7. One thing I wanted to point out is that the Zeiss has no 75mm framelines, just in case that's important. And since the 75 brings up the 50mm frame along with the 75, on an M body, I'm sure it will do the same on the Zeiss--and that is not really helpful, since you would have a 50mm frameline for a 75mm lens.

If you wear glasses, check that you can see the 28mm frames well enough before buying.

Just to confirm -- yes, a 75mm (at least the Summarit-M) does bring up the 50mm framelines on the ZI. However, I prefer a 35/85 lens conbo rather than a 35/75... It mirrors my SLR lens combo.

[rxmd]

And using a 90 with the 85 framelines is no problem at all.

[Jim Evidon]

"... a slightly higher noise level..."...??????
Is someone smoking funny stuff?

[calexg]

Originally Posted by Jim Evidon

"... a slightly higher noise level..."...??????
Is someone smoking funny stuff?

The sound is more "metallic" than a cloth-shuttered M camera. I'm pretty sure they are both just as quiet.

[ChrisN]

A black M7 would be a nice partner for my M4, but I'd want it with the 0.58 viewfinder please.

[noimmunity]

Totally subjective, I voted for the ZI. Since I've never owned a Leica, I've always missed the ZI every time I've tried an M6 or M7. I think a lot of what goes into preference is habit. With film cameras, the more habituated you are, the more the camera disappears.

At this point, even if I were offered an even trade, M7 for my ZI, I wouldn't do it (unless it were to sell the M7 so I could pocket the difference and get another ZI). Not that the ZI is better, but I'm used to it and really like it.

I doubt either camera on its own would really make a difference to one's skills as a photographer, but since each photographer comes with a uniquely shaped body, it makes sense that people's preferences will differ.

I wonder what Akiva found lacking in the ZI?

One thing that may be very important but has nothing to do with the actual camera is the brand name. Since I often have direct contact with the subjects I shoot, the brand name of the camera inevitably becomes part of the interaction, just as the way a camera looks (retro, contemporary, digital, film, etc...) also can be a crucial part of the equation.

[whitecat]

I have both and do like the feel of the M7 over the ZI, but the viewfinder in ZI wins hands down.

[namelast]

Not often mentioned, but if you use "A", then the ZI has the EV compensation setting placed intelligently on the shutter speed dial, while the M7 has them on the ISO dial on the back of the camera. The latter does not look too handy if you ask me!

[bedaberger]

I've the ZM and like it a lot.
I cannot value the M7, had one in my hands only once at the dealer's.
The shuttersound of the M7 is extraorinary, but the filmloading seems to be complicated...

However, if somebody is inerested in the ZM, I'v one new/unused body for sale! cheap! ;-)

[Don Hutton]

ZI. I own and use an M7, MP and ZI a lot. The ZI is like having a .58 M7 only in terms of being able to use a 28 while wearing glasses. OTOH, it's just a much "bigger" and better rangefinder too. Sold all my .58 Leicas after buying a ZI. If you wear glasses, the ZI everytime instead of an M7 .58.

Downside of ZI:

1. no 75 framelines - an issue for me because I really like the focal lengh. Reason I keep the M7!
2. A little louder.
3. No 135 framelines (yes, I shoot one sometimes....) - upside of no 135 and 75 is that you have completely uncluttered framelines....

Likes:
1. The rangefinder is awesome.
2. The exp comp dial is intuitive and usable (it isn't on the M7).
3. Way cheaper.
4. The rangefinder
5 The viewfinder generally
6. The 85mm framelines and more accurate than the 90 framelines on the M7 when using a 90mm lens - go figure - I did the test twice because I didn't believe my results.
7. See 5 and 6 above.

[Harry Lime]

M7

Tough as nails and will still work 20 years from now.
The RF patch moves with the framelines
Quieter shutter
The way it feels in your hands
Resale value

[Tim Gray]

I have an M7. Used it wasn't *that* much more than a ZI, and I waited to find one with the upgraded DX reader.

The ZI seems like a really nice camera, and if I found one for a good price I might pick it up. Everyone says the viewfinder is brighter, but the meter display and RF patch are better on the M7. Maybe the RF patch thing is just about flaring though. Anyway, I like the mechanical speeds on the M7; I just used that function for the first time the other day. The exposure compensation on the M7 is a bit daft, but the exposure lock on the shutter button works they way it should. It's not really exposure lock but a shutter speed lock, which means you can either do exposure lock, or lock the shutter speed and change the aperture if you need to spur of the moment exposure compensation.

The M7 is a great camera. I'm sure the ZI is too. I guess I ended up with an M7 because it's pretty close to my M6, but with AE. Which is what I wanted... I also prefer the black chrome to black paint - very non flashy.

[Uncle Bill]

I love my M3 but if given the choice between a Zeiss Ikon M and a M7 I would go with the ZI in terms of price, really nice viewfinder and a much more rational loading system.