M7 or a Zeiss Ikon ZM?

[bobby_novatron]

Deciding between a Zeiss Ikon and a Leica M7 is like deciding between two quite different but equally beautiful women.

A wonderful dilemma to have...

[BobYIL]

Originally Posted by bobby_novatron

Deciding between a Zeiss Ikon and a Leica M7 is like deciding between two quite different but equally beautiful women.

A wonderful dilemma to have...

Probably not with the prices of today:

http://www.fotoversand-afa.de/digita...schwarzset.php

ZI body + C-Sonnar 50/1.5 = €1.499 minus 19% VAT = €1.260 = $1.600.. The lens alone costs by B&H $1.201 so the body comes for $399.. not a bad deal at all..

[Bob Michaels]

Originally Posted by kdemas

For me the real difference, and the reason I don't have a ZI right now, is the shutter sound. I find it to be loud and of a very obvious pitch, something I don't care for when sound matters in an environment. ........................

Everyone has their own parameters and I respect that. I have been photographing in one of several small churches almost every Sunday for the last 6-7 months with my ZI. I have even photographed a few funerals. I don't find the sound obtrusive. Yes, you can hear the shutter but the sound is dwarfed by the impact of a photographer standing there in the front of the church.

[GWT]

I'd go for the M7 - quieter shutter, better build quality.

[Archiver]

Have I posted in this thread yet? Not sure. Too much thinking about cameras. Grrr.

I have both the M7 and the Ikon. The Ikon was my first rangefinder, purchased in 2008, and the M7 followed in 2010 about six months after I bought my M9. Much has been said about the differences between them, so I will only add my personal feelings.

I like the Ikon as a shooter. The metering is very accurate, the ergonomics are nice, and the body is very light compared with the M7. Being able to load the film with a hinged back is a real plus, not to mention being able to see what film you've loaded in the little window at the back. The viewfinder is a revelation and it tucks the shutter speeds off to the side, rather than down the bottom where they can be distracting.

But the Ikon doesn't have the same solidity as the M7. Squeeze the Ikon's top plate and there is a bit of give, something you'll never feel in the Leica. The shutter sound of the Ikon is a sharp and metallic 'spang' which is a bit annoying compared with the muted 'klop' of the Leica. But this solidity is also a bit of the M7's pitfall, as it is much more noticeable around the neck or over the shoulder. Carry it for a whole day and you know about it. Carry the Ikon and you'll only just notice it. You often hear about people raving how the M whatever is so light, you can carry it anywhere. I feel like I could brain a mugger with the M7 and still take photos afterwards, whereas the Ikon feels like it would come apart if it met someone's head.

Shooting the M7 is a gorgeously tactile experience, full of rounded curves and smooth action. The Ikon is a bit 'gritty', a very workmanlike feeling. The Ikon in operation grunts, "I vill take your fotos," whereas the M7 murmurs, "Jaaaa, now we take ze fotos, ja?"

[gavinlg]

Pretty sure I posted in this thread before and said that I'd have the Ikon. Well, I've changed my mind, I'd have the m7.

[Godfrey]

Having used both, and despite wanting to like the ZI more, I found I just preferred the Leica. Felt nicer to me.

I didn't buy either. Went for an M4-2 instead.

[GWT]

Originally Posted by Archiver

Shooting the M7 is a gorgeously tactile experience, full of rounded curves and smooth action. The Ikon is a bit 'gritty', a very workmanlike feeling. The Ikon in operation grunts, "I vill take your fotos," whereas the M7 murmurs, "Jaaaa, now we take ze fotos, ja?"

Brilliantly put!

[akiralx]

I just sold my M7 0.58 and kept the ZI.

The latter's VF is in a different class and the camera is cooler...

[kshapero]

If you really want that, "Jaaaa, now we take ze fotos, ja?" feeling, get an M3.

[Photon42]

Originally Posted by kshapero

If you really want that, "Jaaaa, now we take ze fotos, ja?" feeling, get an M3.

Listen carefully, that would be then: "Jaaaa, now we take ze fotos, but can you help an old lady with the exposure, ja?"

Cheers
Ivo

[steveyork]

With the price of Leica products today, the choice is pretty easy.

[Peter Wijninga]

If you shoot AE, like many others, the Zeiss is a superior camera. Film loading is much better. The VF is superior. It costs a lot less. The downside is well known: difficulties reading the meter in bright sunlight conditions.

[steveyork]

Originally Posted by Peter Wijninga

If you shoot AE, like many others, the Zeiss is a superior camera. Film loading is much better. The VF is superior. It costs a lot less. The downside is well known: difficulties reading the meter in bright sunlight conditions.

Loading a Leica is much easier once you learn how to do it. You need to press down on the cassette to make sure that it's seated. Most people just don't know how to load a Leica, and their in box instructions are terrible.

Seriously considering a ZM because I can get a new one at cost. It's that huge viewfinder that's the drawing card.

[jonmanjiro]

I remember making a comment in this thread some time ago stating my preference for the Zeiss Ikon (admittedly biased as I’d never owned or shot with an M7 at that point). Well, I have owned and used an M7 since September last year and there are definitely things I prefer about the M7 over the Zeiss Ikon. For example:

* Fewer framing errors – I find that the M7's always centered focus patch regardless of focus distance helps me frame more accurately.
* Easy film loading – It took me a little time to get used to the film loading method, but I now prefer loading film in the M7 and always get 39 shots per roll, sometimes even 40 shots.
* AE lock – I much prefer the M7’s half press of the shutter release button to lock the exposure.
* Smooth camera with solid feel – Yep, the M7 is smoother in operation, feels better in the hand, and has a satisfying heft to it.

The Zeiss Ikon still has the edge in some areas though. For example:

* Better focus patch – I’ve never experience focus patch flare with my ZI, but have with my M7 despite it having the upgraded “MP finder”.
* More consistent metering – I find the ZI’s meter to be very consistent, whereas the M7 meter can be a little flaky in certain situations e.g. the M7's meter seems much more sensitive to bright light sources in the frame.
* Metal shutter curtains - It is nice not to have to worry about burning a hole in the shutter curtains. The 1/2000 top shutter speed is also a plus.
* Film window on back – You can check at a glance what film is loaded.
* Exposure compensation and ISO setting – This is implemented much more intelligently on the ZI. I don't trust my M7's mechanical DX reader at all and set the ISO on the ISO dial.

I was also surprised at how noisy my M7 is. I expected an almost whisper quiet camera, but in use it there is no practical difference from my Zeiss Ikon. My ideal camera would combine all the good features of the M7 and Zeiss Ikon, but that ain’t gonna happen so I guess I’ll keep and use both

[bobby_novatron]

Love my M7, but I wish it had the top 2000th shutter speed of the ZI.

Still, they're both good cameras. It's a pleasure to own and use either of them.

[kdemas]

Originally Posted by jonmanjiro

I was also surprised at how noisy my M7 is. I expected an almost whisper quiet camera, but in use it there is no practical difference from my Zeiss Ikon.

That's pretty unusual from my experience Jon. The two M7s I've owned are MUCH quieter than the ZIs I've played with and, in fact, quieter than all my other Ms. You might have a little something going on with your copy.

[jonmanjiro]

Originally Posted by kdemas

That's pretty unusual from my experience Jon. The two M7s I've owned are MUCH quieter than the ZIs I've played with and, in fact, quieter than all my other Ms. You might have a little something going on with your copy.

Hi Kent, oh there's definitely a difference in the sound when you have the camera held up to your eye. The M7 is quieter. But hold the camera at arm's length and fire the shutter, and there is minimal difference IMO. Non-photogs friends have also said to me they don't hear a difference in the volume of the cameras when shooting around them with both cameras.

I did actually think there might be something wrong with my M7 at first, but it sounds very similar to other M7s I've played with at MAP Camera so I've stopped worrying about it.

[kdemas]

Originally Posted by jonmanjiro

Hi Kent, oh there's definitely a difference in the sound when you have the camera held up to your eye. The M7 is quieter. But hold the camera at arm's length and fire the shutter, and there is minimal difference IMO. Non-photogs friends have also said to me they don't hear a difference in the volume of the cameras when shooting around them with both cameras.

I did actually think there might be something wrong with my M7 at first, but it sounds very similar to other M7s I've played with at MAP Camera so I've stopped worrying about it.

Ahhh...gotcha. Love the work you're doing with the M7 (Istanbul for example), you seem to have a kit that's really in the sweet spot for your needs.

[kdemas]

PS- I just bought back an M7 .85 that I sold about 4 months ago. Happiness returns.

[jonmanjiro]

Originally Posted by kdemas

Ahhh...gotcha. Love the work you're doing with the M7 (Istanbul for example), you seem to have a kit that's really in the sweet spot for your needs.

Originally Posted by kdemas

PS- I just bought back an M7 .85 that I sold about 4 months ago. Happiness returns.

Thanks Kent! I would be very tempted by an M7 0.85 if one came my way. I briefly owned an M6TTL 0.85 and really enjoyed the increased magnification when using 50mm and 90mm lenses. Maybe one day...

Enjoy your M7 0.85 that found its way back home

[leicapixie]

The ZM is no longer advertised..The Leica M7 may indeed become obsolete with film, but as a 'Red dot" will always have value! Remember the Contax G1 and G2. Yeah! Gonna wipe the floor clean of Leica with those" Sure! Almost worthless except a few users!
i use film cameras that are no longer relevant. It don't make them a good investment..

[Nick]

I'd say that the the only three things that the M7 has over the ZI is:

1. Red Dot
2. Quieter Shutter
3. Build Quality / Heft

But then, what the ZI has over the M7 is:

1. Affordable
2. Brighter and more accurate rangefinder
3. Lighter

I own a ZI limited edition and recently passed on an M7 in favour of an M6 classic. The M7 is great, and if you have money and desire get it. However you should feel perfectly comfortable with the ZI as it's a great performer, who some even say is better (from a useability perspective) than the M7.

[kshapero]

I have had both and I would add to the above comments that the M7 has a better metering system and also feels just great in your hands, at least my hands.

[kokoshawnuff]

Ive only handled an Ikon for a brief amount of time, so i cant speak to the things like meter, accuracies, and metering. But from what I can remember about the Ikon, I prefer the extra weight of an M7 and the framelines (I need my 90mm and 135mm frames)