Nikon D700/D800 question

[Pirate]

If you put the firmware from the D800 into a D700, would it change the MegaPixels of the camera and essentially turn it into a D800 without video?

Also, is there a way to take a D700 and make it read just Black & White, like a Leica M Monochrome? I know it's just software that makes all that stuff work.

??

[kxl]

Originally Posted by Pirate

If you put the firmware from the D800 into a D700, would it change the MegaPixels of the camera and essentially turn it into a D800 without video?

Also, is there a way to take a D700 and make it read just Black & White, like a Leica M Monochrome? I know it's just software that makes all that stuff work.

??

To your first question - No, loading the D800 firmware into the D700 will not change the mp of the D700 (don't even know IF it will load, and if it does who knows what it will do to your D700).

To your second question - the D700 has a monochrome mode; however, NOT LIKE the M9, i.e., it will not have the same sharpness/resolution since the D700 still has to deal with the anti-alias filter.

[bugmenot]

I really hope this is a satirical or joke post ...

[Pirate]

Sorry, no satire here. I know that it's the software that runs every aspect of the digital cameras, and I would love to be able to adjust it and make it what I want- one of those things being a fully B&W camera, like the Leica M Monochrome.

I know the firmware for the 800 won't just load into the 700 or I'm sure this would have been done before. But wouldn't it be cool? ...or maybe I should say "fun".

[f6andBthere]

Well according to Fuji a quick menu adjustment can give you Astia or Provia without you even having to load film in the camera ... so why not?

[CaptZoom]

To turn your D700 into a bw only camera similar to the Leica M Monochrom, a few things have to happen:
1) You have to get rid of the Bayer array, this will turn the signal send from the sensor to luminosity values only, ie bw. Not sure if this is doable.
2) You need to get rid of the low pass filter (aka anti-aliasing filter). This can be done and is relatively cheap. There are labs that can do this procedure for you. And you should have a professional lab do this for you. They can ensure dust does not get captured by the sensor.
3) If you can do both 1 and 2, you will need firmware tweaks, because demosiacing is part of the imaging process. You'll need the camera to not do this! If you do only #2, than no firmware tweak is needed.

Good luck with your project.

[CaptZoom]

These guys did it to a Canon dSLR:

http://www.maxmax.com/ldp_b&w.htm

[bugmenot]

Originally Posted by Pirate

Sorry, no satire here. I know that it's the software that runs every aspect of the digital cameras, and I would love to be able to adjust it and make it what I want- one of those things being a fully B&W camera, like the Leica M Monochrome.

I know the firmware for the 800 won't just load into the 700 or I'm sure this would have been done before. But wouldn't it be cool? ...or maybe I should say "fun".

Software runs every aspect of a digital camera, limited to the camera's hardware.

A 12mp sensor can't magically and physically change to make 36mp images out of the blue with a software change. It also cannot remove its own AA filter or Bayer colour array.

So no, it won't do what you want it to do without spending some big bucks, at which point you are better off buying a D800 and converting to B&W in post processing, which will give you a much more resolution than a Leica M Monochrom.

[Pirate]

I was wondering about the sensor in the 700 because when the D3 was going through it's various model changes, did they change the sensor from a 12 to an 18 MP sensor? I thought they just did a software adjustment. So I don't see why you couldn't up the MP of the 700 the same way. It's the same sensor.

I emailed maxmax.com to see if they can do the conversion I'm talking about. I'll post what they say if I get a reply back.

[ronnies]

Originally Posted by Pirate

I was wondering about the sensor in the 700 because when the D3 was going through it's various model changes, did they change the sensor from a 12 to an 18 MP sensor? I thought they just did a software adjustment. So I don't see why you couldn't up the MP of the 700 the same way. It's the same sensor.

I emailed maxmax.com to see if they can do the conversion I'm talking about. I'll post what they say if I get a reply back.

You can't change a 12Mp sensor to an 18Mp or any other Mp just with a software change. Not possible.

Now you can get software to produce any size of image you like from a 12Mp sensor but it's still just a 12Mp sensor.

Ronnie

[bugmenot]

Originally Posted by Pirate

I was wondering about the sensor in the 700 because when the D3 was going through it's various model changes, did they change the sensor from a 12 to an 18 MP sensor? I thought they just did a software adjustment. So I don't see why you couldn't up the MP of the 700 the same way. It's the same sensor.

I emailed maxmax.com to see if they can do the conversion I'm talking about. I'll post what they say if I get a reply back.

The D800 uses a completely new processor, a brand new Sony designed sensor, and is just a different beast all together. D700 and D800 are NOT related to each other hardware-wise. You cannot use any software to magically turn one to the other.

[Pirate]

How about using the D3s software in the 700?

I received a letter back from maxmax.com about my B&W conversion question.
Here is the question I posed to them:
"I would like to know if a Nikon D700 can be converted to work like a Leica M Monochrome. No anti-aliasing filter and no color filter Bayer array."

And here is the answer I received this morning:
"Thanks for the interest in our conversions. While technically, the D700 could be converted, it is not one we are ready to do yet. Nikon camera sensors are a bit more difficult are a bit more difficult to take apart than Canon sensors and more expensive to replace when something goes wrong. We are getting close to releasing the D7000 in monochrome, but we have some other work ahead of us first. We aren't converting customer cameras because the risk of sensor damage is too great. Also, monochrome conversions are never 100% perfect, and we don't want to have a problem with a customer who isn't happy with the conversion."

Hope some of you find that interesting.

[furcafe]

You seem to be a bit confused about your various Nikon models. The D3X has a different sensor (24 megapixels) from the regular D3, the D3S, & the D700 (all 12 megapixels).

Have you been to dpreview? You can easily compare cameras, like this:

http://www.dpreview.com/products/com...cts=nikon_d700

Originally Posted by Pirate

I was wondering about the sensor in the 700 because when the D3 was going through it's various model changes, did they change the sensor from a 12 to an 18 MP sensor? I thought they just did a software adjustment. So I don't see why you couldn't up the MP of the 700 the same way. It's the same sensor.

[ronnies]

Originally Posted by Pirate

How about using the D3s software in the 700?

Probably not. Different cameras with different hardware. The D3s software, for example, may not know anything about the built in flash. It may also not talk to the D700 battery.

I'm not sure what the point of trying would be anyway.

Ronnie

[ColSebastianMoran]

Originally Posted by Pirate

If you put the firmware from the D800 into a D700, would it change the MegaPixels of the camera and essentially turn it into a D800 without video?

Also, is there a way to take a D700 and make it read just Black & White, like a Leica M Monochrome? I know it's just software that makes all that stuff work.

??

I assume it wouldn't load. If it did, you would most likely have converted your nice camera into a brick-sized paperweight.

Yes, software drives. But, software drives the hardware. Your camera hardware has a certain density of sensors and it has color filters on these sensors (the Bayer array). No software change will undo those hardware characteristics.

Interestingly, there have been examples in technology where the hardware was there but disabled by the software to create a lower priced model. I'm thinking of a telephone PBX switch I once bought. In those cases, a software load might unleash the hardware capability. Conceivable, but I don't think that's the case for your camera's sensor density.

[RObert Budding]

If I put rocket fuel in my car will it fly?

[Godfrey]

Originally Posted by Pirate

Sorry, no satire here. I know that it's the software that runs every aspect of the digital cameras ...

I'm sorry too, but this is completely wrong.

Digital camera operations are highly determined by software, but the software can only act upon what is captured by the sensor and what the surrounding subsystem's capabilities are. The physical (analog) characteristics of a digital sensor chip are key to how a particular camera produces images.

Trying to explain all that you need to understand here is a bit too much to type as digital camera technology is a deep subject. I suggest reading Ron White's book on the subject How Digital Photography Works. It's well illustrated and written in layman's terms. It's available from Amazon.com and other vendors:
www.amazon.com/How-Digital-Photography-Works

Once you understand how digital photography and cameras work, you'll understand why your query makes little sense. No amount of magic software voodoo is going to make a Nikon D700 into a Leica M Monochrom ... can't happen, the underlying hardware is the reason why.

[Pirate]

"Interestingly, there have been examples in technology where the hardware was there but disabled by the software to create a lower priced model. I'm thinking of a telephone PBX switch I once bought. In those cases, a software load might unleash the hardware capability. Conceivable, but I don't think that's the case for your camera's sensor density."

This is what I was hoping for with the 700 (since I have one).

"I suggest reading Ron White's book on the subject How Digital Photography Works."

Thanks, I'll look into that. It's fun to learn this kinda stuff.

[Roger Hicks]

Originally Posted by Pirate

"Interestingly, there have been examples in technology where the hardware was there but disabled by the software to create a lower priced model. I'm thinking of a telephone PBX switch I once bought. In those cases, a software load might unleash the hardware capability. Conceivable, but I don't think that's the case for your camera's sensor density."

Highlight: indeed. It is (or at least was) known in the mainframe computer business as 'slugging', and was sometimes used to fill a perceived gap in the market. It was sometimes cheaper to 'slug' A to create B and fill a gap in the A-B-C market than to build a whole new B. At one company I worked for, I was told that 'un-slugging' (upgrade from B to A) took about an hour but was charged at 3 days plus a lot of parts. The tech spent a lot of time behind screens, reading magazines...

But high-megapixel chips are sufficiently expensive (at least at the moment) that I doubt 'slugging' would be cost-effective.

Cheers,

R.

[Pirate]

Really, Roger? I would have thought that something like the models of the 700 and D3 would have been a great place to do something like that 'slugging' with the sensor megapixels.