Fuji seriously investigating the launch of a full-frame compact system camera

[Keith]

Fuji are an enormous company and I believe they could fast track a full frame X if they chose to. To me they seem determined to dominate the mirrorless market so they won't be sitting on their hands here IMO.

Could the classifieds deal with the glut of (obsolete ) Xpros though?

[rbelyell]

''A new XP1 cost as much or even more than a used M8, so I would totally expect them to price it at the used M9 level if it comes out.''


alex, xp1s are going for $1300. ive never seen an m8 under $1800. many are listed right now on this forum st over $2000! when it first came out it xp1 was $1500. i'll bet you a FF costs nothing more than $2500.
tony

[GaryLH]

Originally Posted by Keith

Fuji are an enormous company and I believe they could fast track a full frame X if they chose to. To me they seem determined to dominate the mirrorless market so they won't be sitting on their hands here IMO.

Could the classifieds deal with the glut of (obsolete ) Xpros though?

Any different then what may also be happening with d7000 and d600?

Gary

[Keith]

Originally Posted by GaryLH

Any different then what may also be happening with d7000 and d600?

Gary

True ... except that mirrorless seems to be where the real action is at the moment.

Fuji have been a little upstaged by another giant corporation in Sony ... and they won't like that!

[GaryLH]

Originally Posted by Keith

True ... except that mirrorless seems to be where the real action is at the moment.

Fuji have been a little upstaged by another giant corporation in Sony ... and they won't like that!

Lol

Competition is good..

Gary

[benlees]

Being that Fuji has put a lot of dollars into the X line- and themselves saying that some of their lenses do not cover 36x24- I would bet there isn't a "full frame" camera coming any time soon.

With regards to being upstaged: Fuji puts out interesting cameras, not electronic products and, luckily, no longer deals with Hasselblad!

[Keith]

Originally Posted by benlees

Being that Fuji has put a lot of dollars into the X line- and themselves saying that some of their lenses do not cover 36x24- I would bet there isn't a "full frame" camera coming any time soon.

With regards to being upstaged: Fuji puts out interesting cameras, not electronic products and, luckily, no longer deals with Hasselblad!

Imaging is only a small part of Fuji ... they made a big investment in pharmaceuticals some time ago.

Business is business ... they are a huge corporation with numerous interests.

[gavinlg]

Dear fujifilm,



Yours,
Gavin

[GaryLH]

Originally Posted by gavinlg

Dear fujifilm,



Yours,
Gavin

Lol

I was wondering if this image would pop up during this thread.

Gary

[aeturnum]

I think watching Fuji make decisions has been very interesting. They tend to try and produce products with unique features (optical viewfinder, X-Trans) rather than compete on price or features.

Because of that, I have my doubts they'll enter the FF world. The image quality from a FF sensor is higher, but the "ROI" on cost v.s. improvement is pretty debatable. It seems to me that Fuji will only put out a full frame camera if: they can no longer increase image quality in other ways or one of their ideas does not pan out. In many ways, "scaling up" a known sensor design would probably be easier than bringing an entirely new design idea to life.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by aeturnum

I think watching Fuji make decisions has been very interesting. They tend to try and produce products with unique features (optical viewfinder, X-Trans) rather than compete on price or features.

Because of that, I have my doubts they'll enter the FF world. The image quality from a FF sensor is higher, but the "ROI" on cost v.s. improvement is pretty debatable. It seems to me that Fuji will only put out a full frame camera if: they can no longer increase image quality in other ways or one of their ideas does not pan out. In many ways, "scaling up" a known sensor design would probably be easier than bringing an entirely new design idea to life.

True ... but it may be easier for them to just do it rather than try and convince users it's not really necessary.

There's a real "I want/need full frame" mentality out there at the moment and they (Fuji) need to keep selling cameras.

The area that may suffer a little in this current FF frenzy is micro four thirds IMO.

[semilog]

Originally Posted by Keith

True ... but it may be easier for them to just do it rather than try and convince users it's not really necessary.

True. This is one of those areas where facts are far less important than perceptions.

[aeturnum]

Originally Posted by Keith

True ... but it may be easier for them to just do it rather than try and convince users it's not really necessary.

I just look at the Fuji products and see them using unexploited market niches to get unusually high prices for their cameras. They sell the X-Pro for $200 more than the 7D, though if you *just* look at the spec sheets, it's hard to say why that's successful (I own both). The 7D almost certainly has a higher BOM (though the sensor is probably quite cheap now). If Fuji had launched the X-Pro sensor in a DSLR body, it would be a much harder sell than the unique form factor they currently use.

I don't think Fuji is looking to compete "directly" with any of the other camera makers. They want to be the Leica of prosumer cameras - purchased for their unique offerings rather than raw technical and value.

Back when they were leading up to the X-Pro release, Fuji was comparing it to the 5D2 directly. The 5D2, of course, has a full-frame sensor. They could have compared against a crop sensor, but they didn't, which says to me that they invite the comparison to FF sensors.

[benlees]

Originally Posted by Keith

Imaging is only a small part of Fuji ... they made a big investment in pharmaceuticals some time ago.

Business is business ... they are a huge corporation with numerous interests.

Totally agree. Although some companies keep their interests separate. But the wording of the Fuji exec was vague enough to come from from any camera company. Are there any camera companies (that currently don't market one) not contemplating big sensors? I expect them to do this. Will they hit the market soon? Maybe not.

[V-12]

Originally Posted by jsrockit

NO Fuji will cost anywhere near $5500... unless Leica rebadges one.

The body won't cost that, but there will be another entirely new range of lenses to go with a Fuji FF.

If £3000 gets you an X-Pro and a couple of lenses in the UK, what price a Fuji FF! A Leica ME is going to be £3900 body only and many people already have a set of lenses paid for long ago. So there ain't going to be any bumper stickers saying 'My Other Camera is a Fuji' unless Fuji do something about their pricing policy

[gavinlg]

Originally Posted by aeturnum

I just look at the Fuji products and see them using unexploited market niches to get unusually high prices for their cameras. They sell the X-Pro for $200 more than the 7D, though if you *just* look at the spec sheets, it's hard to say why that's successful (I own both). The 7D almost certainly has a higher BOM (though the sensor is probably quite cheap now). If Fuji had launched the X-Pro sensor in a DSLR body, it would be a much harder sell than the unique form factor they currently use.

I don't think Fuji is looking to compete "directly" with any of the other camera makers. They want to be the Leica of prosumer cameras - purchased for their unique offerings rather than raw technical and value.

Back when they were leading up to the X-Pro release, Fuji was comparing it to the 5D2 directly. The 5D2, of course, has a full-frame sensor. They could have compared against a crop sensor, but they didn't, which says to me that they invite the comparison to FF sensors.

For a lot of people, form factor is EVERYTHING. It's not what a camera does, it's HOW it does it for me. Doesn't matter if the 7d is cheaper and has more features, it doesn't change that there aren't any prime lenses made for it's sensor (so in turn you have to resort to using the 35L for a 50mm lens, and 24L for a 35mm lens, which makes the camera HUGE and pushes the price WAY above the x-pro1 + lens prices.)

[GaryLH]

Originally Posted by gavinlg

For a lot of people, form factor is EVERYTHING. It's not what a camera does, it's HOW it does it for me. Doesn't matter if the 7d is cheaper and has more features, it doesn't change that there aren't any prime lenses made for it's sensor (so in turn you have to resort to using the 35L for a 50mm lens, and 24L for a 35mm lens, which makes the camera HUGE and pushes the price WAY above the x-pro1 + lens prices.)

For me it is more than form factor.. It is UI. If the x tran sensor had the crapy Nex UI, I would never have bought it. The Sony rx1 and rx100 on the other hand are a breath of fresh air in comparison...

On the other hand, I have used Fuji products from xpan to GF670 to the 690. I was always confident they could deliver on the lens quality end..

There are only two cameras outside of the Leica digital m series that have a UI that I like, Ricoh gxr w/m module and the Fuji xp series (including xe1)..

Gary

Ps part of that UI experience is the ovf on the xp1...

[jsrockit]

Originally Posted by aleksanderpolo

A new XP1 cost as much or even more than a used M8, so I would totally expect them to price it at the used M9 level if it comes out.

Do you really think companies take into account used products when pricing its own products?

[jsrockit]

Originally Posted by gavinlg

For a lot of people, form factor is EVERYTHING. It's not what a camera does, it's HOW it does it for me. Doesn't matter if the 7d is cheaper and has more features, it doesn't change that there aren't any prime lenses made for it's sensor (so in turn you have to resort to using the 35L for a 50mm lens, and 24L for a 35mm lens, which makes the camera HUGE and pushes the price WAY above the x-pro1 + lens prices.)

I agree Gavin... ergonomics are very important to RF users. I have fun with the Fuji and Leicas, but do not with DSLRs. It's as simple as that.

[mszargar]

Originally Posted by jsrockit

Do you really think companies take into account used products when pricing its own products?

Companies consider all the potential substitutes to their products, it doesn't matter whether they are new or used. This is very basic microeconomics. What is the difference between losing market share to old cameras and losing market share to new cameras?

[jsrockit]

Originally Posted by mszargar

Companies consider all the potential substitutes to their products, it doesn't matter whether they are new or used. This is very basic microeconomics. What is the difference between losing market share to old cameras and losing market share to new cameras?

I would think that companies do thorough research with regard to competing products in the same sector, but cannot imagine them trying to do research with regard to if their camera will sell in a market which includes the history of all cameras made. Not as many people buy used as you would think. It takes experience to buy used...you have to know what you are looking for. I would gather that most cameras are sold as new to people who know very little about photography.

[lam]

Makes me wonder if anyone would buy a Pentax K-01 if it had a full-frame sensor..