Slide Film, A CALL TO ARMS! : SHOOT IT OR IT WILL DIE

[hausen]

Is winter here and recently decided to shoot slide film this winter to brighten up my days. Bought 20 rolls of 35/120 Provia 400 for my M6/Rolleiflex from B&H and loving. So I am onboard as well. Have a company here in Auckland that charges me the same for E6 or C41 so no drama. Can't beat slides.

[Jamie123]

I just recently bought two 20-sheet boxes of Astia 100F in 4x5 simply because it was a lot cheaper than C-41 and the lab I use for E-6 is cheaper than that for C-41. Needless to say it is quite enjoyable looking at 4x5' slides on a light table.

That being said, E-6 is still quite tricky to expose right. Even though I carefully meter the light I'm still not always 100% right with the exposure. And that's what annoys me a bit about slide film. Sure, I could bracket shots but that would defeat the purpose of choosing E-6 in the first place.

Given the choice I would always opt for C-41 over slide film. If E-6 is discontinued it will be very sad and I won't be happy about it at all mostly because of what it means for the future of film. But I still can't bring myself to buy and shoot E-6 for the purpose of keeping it alive. And I think that's the problem here. Everybody likes to look at slides but we've all gotten used to the versatility that neg film provides and since most of us scan our film it ultimately makes little difference if it's shot on slides or negs.

[Ronald_H]

Originally Posted by BTMarcais

Ronald-
about how much do they charge for B/W 35mm and 120? (and E-6 120) I visit my in-laws in Den Haag every couple of years, and it would be nice to have one less round of x-rays to go through w/ my film, and just process some of it before I fly back...

-Brian

According to their website it's 2.59 EUR development, per film. That's the same as for color (C-41 and E-6). That's not a rock bottom price, but totally reasonable I think.

B/W I do at home btw, but as long as this service exists doing color in my kitchen sink does not seem worth the hassle. For E-6 and B/W turnaround is about a week, C-41 is two days, sometimes longer. It depends on volume. Let's just say that the people working at the counter in my hometown know me by name

As a matter of fact I have to bring a roll in today, hope I don't get the news that they are going to end the service soon. Would be ironic.

[bjornkeizers]

Originally Posted by Ronald_H

According to their website it's 2.59 EUR development, per film. That's the same as for color (C-41 and E-6). That's not a rock bottom price, but totally reasonable I think.

Correct. And the funny thing is, Hema charge 2,59 for every form of developing. Doesn't matter if it's 35, 120 or 110, color, B&W or slide, just the negative/positive development will run you 2,59. They even mount 35mm slides for 5,50 including development.

They've done 20 rolls so far for me, and the results are excellent. Highly recommend it for our Dutch visitors. I drop off two rolls a week there. One word of caution though: B&W and slide film takes up to five days to process there. It's not a ready-while-you-wait operation.

Back on topic:

I started shooting slides in february. At this moment, I've totally replaced my color films with slides. Why? It just works and looks better in my opinion. Despite all the warnings about how difficult slides are to shoot... I've never had a major issue. I bought a few rolls of Kodak Elite Chrome 100 Extra Color, and I'm working on building up some stock Also used the Agfa Precisa slide, and it works great as well.

The best thing about slides is that they're like tiny little paintings. Hold a slide up to the light, and you really feel like you're there. Especially if you shoot a nice sunset, it really looks like you could just step in to the frame and get a tan. Quite stunning.

If you've never shot slides: pick up a few rolls today and give it a go. You'll love the end result holding up your first slide to the light.

[Ronald_H]

Originally Posted by bjornkeizers

Correct. And the funny thing is, Hema charge 2,59 for every form of developing. Doesn't matter if it's 35, 120 or 110, color, B&W or slide, just the negative/positive development will run you 2,59.

Despite all the warnings about how difficult slides are to shoot... Also used the Agfa Precisa slide, and it works great as well.

A few things: If I can get my hands on 127 color I'm going to bring that to the Hema too

Where did you buy your CT Precisa? I can order it from Germany, but is there a place in NL that sells it cheaply?

As for slide film being difficult... well, my first SLR, a little electronic wonder from Minolta had such good matrix metering, that I didn't realize shooting E-6 with old manual cameras takes some more care.

Still, when I bought my latest negative scanner and dug out some slides from 1999-2001 I was amazed all over again. Boy, did they look great!

[kosta_g]

i plan to shoot 25 rolls of it very soon.

For those in Melbourne - Vanbar has Agfa Precisa for $7/roll (it's Fuji Sensia) for 35mm.

get awn it!

[Thomas78]

I will send my brother with my Voigtländer Perkeo IIIe and 4-5 rolls of Provia 400X and 1-2 of Ektachrome 100 to London tomorrow.

[citizen99]

I recently dug out my old Agfacolor transparencies from 40 years ago, and it occurred to me - why do I always use negatives nowadays when I hardly ever need a print? So the first 120 roll of Provia has gone into a camera, just waiting to finish the last 2 frames when the sun comes back (June is not yet 'flaming' in the UK this year, and I would like to have at least some of the shots in sunlight ).

I get my C41 processing done at http://www.club35.co.uk/ and am very satisfied with them, and they also offer E6 so they'll go there.

[bjornkeizers]

Originally Posted by Ronald_H

A few things: If I can get my hands on 127 color I'm going to bring that to the Hema too

Worth a try! So far the only thing I couldn't get one was framed 120 slides. Might try if they do X-pro as well, but heard mixed results whether they do or don't.

Where did you buy your CT Precisa? I can order it from Germany, but is there a place in NL that sells it cheaply?

I got mine from www.hetbeeldgebouw.com . Not as cheap as some of the German places I've seen (Macodirect I'm guessing?) They're currently selling 5 rolls for 21,90. Beeldgebouw has good service though and they sell some other hard'ish to find stuff as well.

[shadowfox]

Guys, if you want to save slide film, consider these:

1. Stop relying on labs, start relying on each other. Labs have to make money to stay open, individual home developers don't. Which one you think will survive longer?

2. Find people in your town/city who still shoot slides or would like to start. It makes no sense for *every* individual slide film user to develop their own. Develop collectively, it's more fun, and you can pool your resources to combat high prices.

3. Go public. In the US, the public library is an excellent place for showcasing your work or from the collective (see no.2). Raise awareness and the beauty of slide films (some creative marketing techniques will hep here).

The point is: You don't have to be Kodak or Lomography to save something, it takes a lot of work (what else is new), but a band of like-minded individuals can do it, and have fun while doing it.

[dave lackey]

Originally Posted by wilonstott

Ladies and Gentlemen,

I just talked to the lab tech at Precision Camera about their discontinuation of E-6 processing. She was very nice. Listened to my woes. Consoled me.

She told me that they, on average, processed about 20 rolls a week or E-6 compared to over 250 rolls a week of C-41.

I can't blame them. It was no longer financially viable.

I love slide film, but I don't shoot enough of it.

I've decided that's going to stop. I'm going to shoot more e-6.

Everyone cried when Kodachrome died, but we didn't do enough to save it, and in all honesty, we probably could have.

We knew it would happen eventually, but I don't think we really believed it.

We have a chance now.

And it has to start now---before it's in its emminent death throes.

We need strategy. What are your ideas?

Let's not hear negativity, fear mongering, or dower end-of-e6-scenarios.

That's not what this thread is about.

It's not about eulogizing something that isn't dead yet.

It's about action.

I'm going to start shooting two rolls of e-6 to every one roll of c-41.

Let's get the discussion going.

The lab tech at Precision said that RFF kept e-6 alive at least 2 years longer than it would have otherwise.

We did that without even trying.

We are the well-organized, well-funded special interest group that saves things like this.

Us.

Nobody else cares.

Nobody.

It's up to us.

How do we do it?

Wil,

Contact Christian Rudman (IIRC, he is associated with PC...but at my age, my memory is shot) by email at Precision Camera and discuss the issue with him. He is a great guy with a lot of enthusiasm. Also, check with Robert (digitalintrigue) and maybe he can lead you in the right direction.

The way I see it, from an engineer's point of view, is that there is a solution among a few choices. There are two choices that may work:

1. Do the research. Ask Precision Camera exactly what they need from RFF to make the continuance of E6 processing profitable. Then, let's try to break it down and get commitments from RFF members and others. Like Public Broadcasting, this can be done but will require some dedicated workers to volunteer in keeping this moving just as a business needs to stay on it every day. This will be the least expensive way for us to get involved in extending the life of E6 processing into the future.

2. Do more research. Look into an entirely enthusiast-based centralized venture where "we" do all the processing and shipping to other members. This is a whole 'nother ball game and is very complex and expensive. But it is something that could be done with the right people involved.

If everyone wants to keep it a cottage-type industry where we do it at home, fine....until E6 disappears.

Can we save the slide film industry? I dunno. Can we extend the life of this wonderful medium 10 years or more into the future? Who knows?

IMO, option #1 is most viable. I could commit to 20 rolls a year even with my non-existing finances. How many RFF members can commit to a yet-to-be-determined amount?

Edit: Memory loss cited....LOL

[dave lackey]

Originally Posted by shadowfox

Guys, if you want to save slide film, consider these:

1. Stop relying on labs, start relying on each other. Labs have to make money to stay open, individual home developers don't. Which one you think will survive longer?

2. Find people in your town/city who still shoot slides or would like to start. It makes no sense for *every* individual slide film user to develop their own. Develop collectively, it's more fun, and you can pool your resources to combat high prices.

3. Go public. In the US, the public library is an excellent place for showcasing your work or from the collective (see no.2). Raise awareness and the beauty of slide films (some creative marketing techniques will hep here).

The point is: You don't have to be Kodak or Lomography to save something, it takes a lot of work (what else is new), but a band of like-minded individuals can do it, and have fun while doing it.

Some time ago, I posted a thread about creative ways of displaying slides in public places. No one had a clue how to do this.

If there was some way to display slides that can be viewed while just walking up to the gallery with a backlit mounted slides(s) or film strip and people could actually see the amazing image, it would really change some minds about film. Nothing beats looking at slides through a loupe. Projecting slides is very cool yet it is tough on the life of the slides, at least that has been my experience.

So, how can one do a slide gallery at a public library? I am open to this discussion.

[Davidhel]

Do you live or work in Melbourne, Aus?
Need to store all the 35mm slides you are taking?

I have around 200 'archival' sheets which will each hold 24 mounted slides (made by champion photographics) - many have never been used (all saved from the bin at work!).

I will give these away FREE to the first person who contacts me who can COLLECT from central Melbourne!

[wilonstott]

Originally Posted by Thomas78

I will send my brother with my Voigtländer Perkeo IIIe and 4-5 rolls of Provia 400X and 1-2 of Ektachrome 100 to London tomorrow.

This. Great.

Shadowfox--I think you're on the right track--we really do need interest in the product. We need people to know what it can do.

I can't help but thinking though, "why can't we have both?"

Remember we all don't have networks of shooters close at hand. I don't. I feel like the Lone Ranger sometimes.

However, I really like your idea about public exhibitions.

Slide shows have really gotten a bad wrap thanks to a thousand bad jokes about how to get overworn dinner guests to leave ("pull out vacation slides..."), but people forget how amazing the projected image can be.

My grandfather was a avid photographer (I'm 32, he's 88 and still going strong) has a metric ton of kodachrome and ektachrome slides. He's pulled them out before and I'm always astounded (especially with the Kodachrome) with quality.

I was in Vesuvio in San Franciso a few months ago--bar where Jack Kerouac used to hang out, and what are they doing on the back wall--projecting old color slides of San Francisco.

Slides are Hip

More Evidence:

On the Fashion Blog--A Continuious Lean--the guy collects old Kodachrome slides and writes about it on his blog. But he doesn't shoot slides--he's got an X100. I feel like writing the guy and telling him it's still around.

Here's a link--I just searched "Kodachrome" in the search box.
http://www.acontinuouslean.com/index.php?s=kodachrome

We have to sell it to the cool and fashionable.
Hipsters and young urbanites are the key.

We have to scour the web for blogs like this. This guy is ripe, and people listen to him. He's got to have the whole package--the film, the camera, the processing lab--all neat and easy to pass on to the masses.

Where else on the web are people talking about slide film like it's dead?

Hell, this guy probably thinks it's all over--how great if someone shows him he can still make images like that (minus the old clothes and cars)?

How great would you feel?

[wilonstott]

I'll do that Dave. I'm gonna watch the thread a bit more today, but I'll contact him.

Ninja Edit

Anybody got an Email Address for Christian Rudman?
I think we should all write and ask him what it would take to get E-6 up and going again.
I looked on Precision's site, but no email links.


Remember, if we do this, we have to be committed.

--Shooting more slide film
--Processing with Precision (if we can work out some kind of deal)---for folks in the US
--Phone a Buddy, Tell a Friend, lend him your camera and a roll
--Again, Refer, Refer, Refer to Precision
--Wash, Rinse, Repeat
--Always remember that you're the only person keeping this beautiful animal alive.

Because it's up to Us.
Nobody else cares.

So don't just shrug your shoulders, and say "bummer" anymore.
Let's get a contact email.
Everyone email him.
A nice, thoughtful email about how great Precision is for the RFF community, and how sad we are to see the E-6 process go from their line.

And then ask what we can do to stop it.

What do they need?

We got it.

We can do it.

[Rob-F]

Originally Posted by Davidhel

Do you live or work in Melbourne, Aus?
Need to store all the 35mm slides you are taking?

I have around 200 'archival' sheets which will each hold 24 mounted slides (made by champion photographics) - many have never been used (all saved from the bin at work!).

I will give these away FREE to the first person who contacts me who can COLLECT from central Melbourne!

The plastic archival pages seem to me to be the best way to store, sort, and preview slides. I've used them for years, along with paper, plastic and metal boxes. Lately I've decided to move everything to the plastic pages. There's no other way to quickly and visually review the images. I have some pendaflex type hangers on order that will let me keep them in file cabinet drawers as well as portable file boxes. Up until now I've kept them in regular pendaflex hangers.

I like to project my slides. The plastic pages are my best way to select and sequence slides before putting them into Carousel trays.

[wilonstott]

Just a visual reminder. David Alan Harvey's Divided Soul was all shot with Velvia 50.

I love the guy, and I don't want to get in a tangential film/digital discussion, but his recent Rio stuff doesn't hold a candle to his old stuff.

I think the Velvia 50 is the difference. He ain't that much older.

Just look at it. Look at the weight of those colors and shadows. Nothing like it.

http://www.magnumphotos.com/C.aspx?V...VForm&CT=Album

[Aristophanes]

Originally Posted by shadowfox

Guys, if you want to save slide film, consider these:

1. Stop relying on labs, start relying on each other. Labs have to make money to stay open, individual home developers don't. Which one you think will survive longer?

This will kill E-6 faster than anything else.

There was never enough home processing to keep Jobo in biz, so nowhere near enough to keep Fuji's rollers rolling.

Only labs can machine process the volume comparable to what Fuji's machines can output.

There is no ability to downscale production of these complex emulsions. If the market cannot purchase and process a certain volume, it all stops. This is what Kodak did.

At least the E process is substantially less expensive and idiosyncratic than the K process This makes it economically viable if labs can process equitably compared to Fuji's output. It's a pretty simple equation.

[RFluhver]

Blimey. This thread just reminded me that I still have about 30 rolls of Sensia left. I don't even know what to shoot with them! They will all expire by this month.

[RFluhver]

Originally Posted by wilonstott

Just a visual reminder. David Alan Harvey's Divided Soul was all shot with Velvia 50.

Really? Is this info in some book or website somewhere?

[wilonstott]

Originally Posted by RFluhver

Blimey. This thread just reminded me that I still have about 30 rolls of Sensia left. I don't even know what to shoot with them! They will all expire by this month.

Don't over-think it man.

Just let it happen organically.

Shoot it like you would anything else.

I'm always happy with what I get, no matter what I shoot.

However, I forget that sometimes when I think about the cost or that I'm shooting discontinued film.

Hell man, even the Mona Lisa's falling apart.

Throw them in the freezer now, and pop one in the chamber.

Start shooting it.

I only really regret the things I didn't do.

[wilonstott]

Originally Posted by RFluhver

Really? Is this info in some book or website somewhere?

National Geographic used to do a Web thing called "Zoom In" where they would give the technical specs of photographers' photos.

Harvey always used Velvia 50

You can't get to it on the NatGeo site, but Google still indexes it.

Here's one:

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/ng...re5/zoom5.html

[RFluhver]

Sh*t, you're a bloody poet! You got me inspired. I will do it.

[wilonstott]

Originally Posted by Aristophanes

This will kill E-6 faster than anything else.

There was never enough home processing to keep Jobo in biz, so nowhere near enough to keep Fuji's rollers rolling.

Only labs can machine process the volume comparable to what Fuji's machines can output.

There is no ability to downscale production of these complex emulsions. If the market cannot purchase and process a certain volume, it all stops. This is what Kodak did.

At least the E process is substantially less expensive and idiosyncratic than the K process This makes it economically viable if labs can process equitably compared to Fuji's output. It's a pretty simple equation.

The more I think about it, this seems like the correct answer.

We have to support labs.

Right now I think we need to focus efforts.

Perhaps we need to do it by country.

Strike a deal with one in the US, UK, France, Australia, and so on.

Funnel all the business we can to certain labs while trying to boost the visibility of slide film in other areas of the web.

Fresh ideas guys.

We're doing great.

Innovate. Play Jazz.

What else?

[wilonstott]

Originally Posted by RFluhver

Sh*t, you're a bloody poet! You got me inspired. I will do it.

Great. Awesome.

This is what we need.

Action.

Go out this evening.

Go out tomorrow morning.

Golden hour, when the light is good.

Go for a walk.

Shoot 12 frames.

Do that 3 times a week.

Bracket shots. Let it happen. Get it right. Set a goal.

Take shots of people--tell them why you're doing it.

Do it.