Thorsten Overgaard on the M10

[dave lackey]

Very interesting!

http://www.overgaard.dk/leica-M10-di...ngefinder.html

[hausen]

I really like Thorsten's style. Thanks for posting Dave, was a good read.

[buzzardkid]

For the reason of life continuity and the ability to continue to spit out Leica M cameras and M lenses, the M10 has to come out in a not so distant future. It would be stupid of Leica if they didn't have a plan to meet the rumors in the market about a Leica M10 (which automatically slows down the sale of Leica M9). Photokina 2012 in September would be a good occasion, because it's not coming on May 10 2012!

I knew it

[daveleo]

Originally Posted by hausen

I really like Thorsten's style. Thanks for posting Dave, was a good read.

Agreed an both accounts.
Thorsten has always struck me as a low key guy who puts his cards on the table.

[buzzardkid]

oh, and:

Leica seem to know these cycles and when to introduce what. So what if ... the black & white Leica M9 is actually a pre-edition of the Leica M10. Wouldn't that have a lot of us discuss with our self how it might actually be necessary for us to have the M10 now, and then one more M10 later when it comes for color?

I'm betting a B&W M9-P in 72 hours and an M10 on Monday 10th of September (M-10, again), a week before PhotoKina

[dave lackey]

That BW M9 sounds too cool and it would be even better without a screen!

[kmallick]

+1
Thorsten's is a great read as usual. Very well written.

"It was Leica that invented the auto focus since 1960 (and also some unnamed Leica executive who said nobody would want it why they sold the rights), and it was Leica that invented the hot shoe for flash. And the list goes on..."

I didn't know that the auto focus and hot shoe were Leica's contribution to the photography world.

[willie_901]

Originally Posted by dave lackey

That BW M9 sounds too cool and it would be even better without a screen!

Don't forget to mention a base ISO of 25 maxing out at 125.

[Nomad Z]

Leica seem to know these cycles and when to introduce what. So what if ... the black & white Leica M9 is actually a pre-edition of the Leica M10. Wouldn't that have a lot of us discuss with our self how it might actually be necessary for us to have the M10 now, and then one more M10 later when it comes for color?

One wonders in what way this B&W M due in May can be a pre-edition of an M10 coming out at Photokina.

[Ryan1938]

The idea of the BW camera, especially in this price range, kind of baffles me. Sometimes Leica frustrates me so much with their countless special editions, strange market intros, etc...

I wish their business directives were as simple as the M3. Sometimes, I think they should have stopped right there.

[Jobin]

He is like a knowledgeable and skilled Ken Rockwell.

[Araakii]

Originally Posted by Ryan1938

The idea of the BW camera, especially in this price range, kind of baffles me. Sometimes Leica frustrates me so much with their countless special editions, strange market intros, etc...

I wish their business directives were as simple as the M3. Sometimes, I think they should have stopped right there.

I don't know why these frustrate you because you don't have to buy them and the fact that they are sitting on someone else's shelves has absolutely no impact on you.

[Hosermage]

Hehe.. +1, Araakii

[Ryan1938]

Originally Posted by Araakii

I don't know why these frustrate you because you don't have to buy them and the fact that they are sitting on someone else's shelves has absolutely no impact on you.

Totally agree. I'm not being a Leica basher at all. Promise. My main camera is an M6 and Ive owned an M8. I love the idea of Leica... Honest.

Sometimes, however, I wish they would take themselves a bit more seriously as a producer of tools is all. Lose the Panasonic cameras, lose the special editions, etc... And instead, focus on making the best rangefinders in the world. I know they got bit once before doing that (the m5), but I'd love to see them try again.

Just my opinion. I don't think you are an idiot if you pay 9k for a BW Camera. Hell, if I had the dough I prolly would too! I'd certainly own an M9 anyhow...

[MikeAUS]

Very interesting read. Thanks for posting!

[semilog]

Kaufmann who took over the majority of the stocks, in fact almost all of them, just a few years ago, like to present Leica as the worlds only luxury brand in cameras. And in the same breath he will state that people keep asking that Leica will lower the prices so more can buy - "but that will never happen," he promises.

And that, right there, is the antithesis of Art. From Hell's heart I stab at thee, Leica.

[Ryan1938]

Fashion. That's the word that bothers me so. I don't want fashion. I want a tool... And I'm willing to pay for it!

[lemalk]

I like Thorsten. I enjoy his insight and his balanced perspective.

... And I know he's essentially correct in his forecast. A Leica is now more than ever an aspirational product.

In the past, photographers aspired to have a Leica. NOW, unfortunately, even current and past Leica users are priced out. It's unfortunate that Leica owns this space in that there isn't a real digital M alternative. A photographer's alternative.

Unlike Hermes, a Leica is a tool to create - not merely extravagant consumption. But that's not where the brand is heading, it seems. And it may be the key to their survival.

Good luck with the B&W rangefinder. I'll be putting my 'old' Leicas to use in the meantime and saving my pennies. I don't think I have a dog in this particular fight anymore.

[lemalk]

Originally Posted by semilog

And that, right there, is the antithesis of Art. From Hell's heart I stab at thee, Leica.

Yep. But it'll need to be a gold-plated dagger...and commerce has no heart. And the whale ultimately wins, right. ?

[Araakii]

Originally Posted by Ryan1938

Fashion. That's the word that bothers me so. I don't want fashion. I want a tool... And I'm willing to pay for it!

I disagree. Fashion brings more color and fun to life. There are a lot of people with a lot of cash that does nothing to them, so having a very nicely designed and painted Leica for merely $40,000 can bring more joy than a number in the bank account.

[buzzardkid]

Oh come on people, Leica would not have lasted the way it does now if it had not taken this path.

They would have shribbled into nothingness and be bought by Sony and the likes just before extinction. Like Jaguar was bought by Ford, bringing forth to the world the marvellous design line of Fordulars, the most hideous cars known in the existence of a design-icon automotive brand...

Someday (soon?) there will be a busload of able-bodied M9's on eBay for a song because the worlds rich have ditched them since the M12 was launched and they cannot be seen boating off Saint-Tropez with last year's model

[Araakii]

Originally Posted by lemalk

Unlike Hermes, a Leica is a tool to create - not merely extravagant consumption. But that's not where the brand is heading, it seems. And it may be the key to their survival.

M6 or M7 were more expensive 15-20 years ago than they are now. If you were an artist, you should be happy because now you can own a fine tool for much less money. If you just want a tool to create work, you don't need the newest model.

[Araakii]

Originally Posted by buzzardkid

Oh come on people, Leica would not have lasted the way it does now if it had not taken this path.

They would have shribbled into nothingness and be bought by Sony and the likes just before extinction. Like Jaguar was bought by Ford, bringing forth to the world the marvellous design line of Fordulars, the most hideous cars known in the existence of a design-icon automotive brand...

Someday (soon?) there will be a busload of able-bodied M9's on eBay for a song because the worlds rich have ditched them since the M12 was launched and they cannot be seen boating off Saint-Tropez with last year's model

That's right. The more Leica charges the better because that means those who chase after the newest stuff will be the ones who fund our gears in the future.

[semilog]

Originally Posted by buzzardkid

Oh come on people, Leica would not have lasted the way it does now if it had not taken this path.

Leica at one time made the best products and priced them accordingly. The company's current leader now says out front that high selling price is a goal for its own sake.

Good business, maybe —

[Cron]

a real pleasure to read!
Thanks for the informative link!
Regards from Vienna

PS: he will come to Vienna for a workshop but I am sorry, I am not able to spend 2000 bucks for it :-(