M9 with B&W sensor?

[totifoto]

According to this rumor we might be seeing an M9 with a black and white sensor and no LCD display.

http://leicarumors.com/2012/04/17/th...led-body.aspx/

What you guys and gals think about that?

I think it might be interesting. No LCD might actually give more time shooting and hopefully better moments caught, no chimping

Price tag has to be within the 2500$ though to make me even think about buying.

[BobYIL]

One thing is for sure: It will have a higher sensitivity due to the monochromatic version of the sensor.

$2500? Have a pleasant evening..

[Andrea Taurisano]

And leica M11 a digital pinhole camera for 3000 bucks? :-)

[axiom]

Looks like Leica runs out of M9 sensors, and needs some cool replacement rather badly.

[huntjump]

i'd love to have one, but $2,500 is a fantasy. If it isnt over $4,000, i'd be surprised...but also very interested!

[tbarker13]

I still do not believe anyone is going to make a digital camera without an LCD display.
But if this thing does happen, I'd guess you can take the current M9 price and add 20-30 percent to it. That should get you into the ballpark of a special edition B&W-only M9.

[BobYIL]

Originally Posted by tbarker13

I still do not believe anyone is going to make a digital camera without an LCD display.
But if this thing does happen, I'd guess you can take the current M9 price and add 20-30 percent to it. That should get you into the ballpark of a special edition B&W-only M9.

(Possible though.. this is Leica!)

[jarski]

this rumor already circled around week or two ago. guess Leica needs to keep price high also because their production ability is low. too many orders on one go, and they would choke. if M9 b&w really is under works, it would make sense to strip crappy M9 LCD from it as well. kind of oddity in digital camera world that Leica only is capable making

edit: second thought about LCD. numerous camera variables would still have to be configured somehow + many users would want least histogram... hmm.

[Calzone]

If one explores the B&W sensor that Phase one currently makes, and Leica builds a camera around a similar technology, a B&W M10 could be more revolutionary than evolutionary. Resolution would be very high because of the lack of all those color filtors, but the dynamic contrast range???

Also consider the possibility that a B&W only M10 would not make the M9 obsolete for those that want to shoot color, and this would be good marketing. Why create a IPAD that hurts computer sales like at Apple?

I know there's a lot of wishful thinking here on my part, but a B&W digital camera that would have close to medium format quality in a Leica package that used my M-mount glass to me would be a game changer: it would be my dream come true.

I'm hoping for a big surprise, and I hope it isn't the price. I'm thinking more than a M9P by a few K.

Cal

[boomguy57]

I seriously doubt we will see a digital camera with no screen.

And I even more seriously doubt we will see a new Leica under $6000.

[Eric T]

A black and white sensor with no rear screen would match Leica's current business plan of continually marching back into the dark ages!

[BobYIL]

Originally Posted by Calzone

If one explores the B&W sensor that Phase one currently makes, and Leica builds a camera around a similar technology, a B&W M10 could be more revolutionary than evolutionary. Resolution would be very high because of the lack of all those color filtors, but the dynamic contrast range???
Cal

Cal, a CCD sensor, monochromatic or RGB-CFA, does not show any difference in resolution power. The only difference (say for the KAF-sensor used on the M9) would come out to be somewhat 10 times of sensitivity in lux compared to the color version, I can not estimate how this will be reflected to the SNR in dB terms. The DR might improve a little (or may remain the same) mostly due to the processor engine chosen.

[filmfan]

Don't see a point as digital is basically just good for color.

[Gazzah]

I have hoped for such a camera for a while, but I always thought if it ever happened it would be from somewhere ilke Ricoh or Fuji. i doubt if I would be able to afford a Leica version.
Surely it would have better rez as it doesnt have to interpolate between the photo sites for colour - do the current ones not take the output from four sites to average the colour?
I know vertually nothing about sensor design so Im more than likly totally wrong!

[---f]

anyone here remember when SD card manufacturers advertised Digital Film?

[Calzone]

Originally Posted by BobYIL

Cal, a CCD sensor, monochromatic or RGB-CFA, does not show any difference in resolution power. The only difference (say for the KAF-sensor used on the M9) would come out to be somewhat 10 times of sensitivity in lux compared to the color version, I can not estimate how this will be reflected to the SNR in dB terms. The DR might improve a little (or may remain the same) mostly due to the processor engine chosen.

Bob,

My understanding might be wrong, but I understand it takes three pixels to make a color signal and the required filtering for color processing degrades the signal.

At home I have single ended triode monoblocks using a 300B vacuum tube for a stereo. Signal processing is a big factor. I'm assuming that signal processing in a B&W only sensor would be simple and more pure in a similar analog way to my audio where less is more.

Your explaination about sensitivity makes sense. and there's a lot of grey area that I'm hoping leads to other possibilities.

As I remember Phase One did a comparision between their B&W sensor and one of their much larger color sensors to compare remarkable resolution and make a statement about the jump in resolution. This lead me to believe that there is a possibility that making a more basic B&W only digital camera might have some real performance advantages.

Any help in further understand is greatly appreciated. I'm just an old film guy who doesn't even scan.

Cal

[135format]

Wasn't the 1st April just over two weeks ago?

No one is going to pay more than for an M9 when they can have an M9 and have both colour and B+W. And what is B+W sensor anyway? One which is only sensitive to grey light? I'm gob smacked that people are taking any of this seriously.

[thirtyfivefifty]

I don't buy it.

[jsrockit]

Originally Posted by totifoto

Price tag has to be within the 2500$ though to make me even think about buying.

You do know we are talking of Leica right? This camera, if made, will be $8000+.

[jsrockit]

Originally Posted by 135format

No one is going to pay more than for an M9 when they can have an M9 and have both colour and B+W. And what is B+W sensor anyway? One which is only sensitive to grey light? I'm gob smacked that people are taking any of this seriously.

What makes you so sure? It's been done before:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/re...dak-760m.shtml

[Mackinaw]

Sure I believe it. Stefan Daniel suggested the possibility of a B&W-only Leica digital camera at a LHSA meeting a few years back.

Jim B.

[Marel]

For those that want to shoot digital, and prefer b&w, it's not only reasonable, but also very important, to have the ability to take pictures that are natively in that format. With a regular digital camera b&w is always an afterthought, not a prerequisite. Having color stripped away from the outset changes the way you look at the world when shooting. I at least react very differently to my surroundings when my camera is loaded with color film or b&w film. I'm positive that a b&w only digital camera would be a huge hit, and I would bet that not only Leica could market such a camera sell, but also Fuji and Olympus with their mirrorless cameras.

[tbarker13]

Originally Posted by Marel

... I'm positive that a b&w only digital camera would be a huge hit, and I would bet that not only Leica could market such a camera sell, but also Fuji and Olympus with their mirrorless cameras.

Define "huge."
I don't doubt that a lot of people in this forum (as well as some like-minded folks) would like the idea of a B&W camera. But 90 percent of that interest in going to drain away when we see an $8,000+ pricetag.
Really, we are talking about a niche within a niche.
I'm not even sure I'd be interested - and 90 percent of what I do is B&W. I'd just have to see real compelling evidence that this B&W-only sensor would be a marked improvement over what I get from my color sensor.

[huntjump]

Price will be a huge factor for how "huge" this would be. Given its leica, i agree its going to exceed $5,000, even with components (like an lcd) are removed. not sure how many people could afford to buy a B&W only camera.

I respect Leica in some ways not sending production to a country with cheap labor, but at the same time it forecloses me from affording what would be an ideal camera for me. I would stretch at $3,000 for one, but since its likely to be $5,000-$7,995, i wont be buying one even if it was everything i wanted.

[totifoto]

Originally Posted by jsrockit

You do know we are talking of Leica right? This camera, if made, will be $8000+.

Well I thought if there would be no LCD the could save a lot on making it, dont know about making a B&W sensor though, maybe that is very expensive.

If it will be 8000+ the image quality has to be something that has never been seen before, a camera with limitations like b&w only and no LCD cant be priced this high.