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Old 02-08-2013   #126
Jamie Pillers
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taskoni View Post
I never had any problems taking pictures of strangers without asking

I think shooting from the hip is stupid - not having control on what you are doing doesn't count for me

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You offered her a print, right?
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Old 02-08-2013   #127
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Hehe

My formula for street is 50mm and a cane distance :P

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Old 02-08-2013   #128
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Boris: if you know your gear well enough, you can frame decently from the hip.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cameosis View Post
street portraits are part of street photography. and the "100 strangers project" is a great approach:

(begin quote)
1. I tell them immediately what I would like.
2. I ask them if its ok to take a picture.
3. Then I chat with them; sometimes i chat for 10-15 minutes( this is the key, everyone likes to talk about themselves)
4. I shoot a bunch of pictures...and ask which ones they like.
5. I invite them to email me if they'd like a picture (moo cards are brilliant. I have ones with my name, flickraddress, and email)

If they say no, I visibly put my camera away and chat a bit. If you respect their refusal, you are acting in the best way possible. (end quote)
I agree completely. Street portraits can easily be apart of one's street photography portfolio. It just seems that certain "purist" crowds frown upon it. You know, the same types that think you can only use Leica for the street.

For me, I tend to shy away from (posed/pre-asked) street portraits for two reasons
1. I prefer candids generally speaking for my own photography
2. I find it more daunting to go up to a person and strike up a conversation than to just snap a candid and move on. If someone approaches me, though, 9/10 times I'll ask for a portrait and thus far they've said yes.
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Old 02-08-2013   #129
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NEVER shoot from the hip. It's sneaky, and makes it seem like you have something to hide. Make it obvious that you're a photographer

There is *nothing* wrong with street photography. So don't hide.
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Old 02-08-2013   #130
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Originally Posted by tom.w.bn View Post
You are overlooking the fact that surveillance cameras usually don't post photos on flickr or other internet portals. Whereas street photographers usually do this.
And are 100% within their rights to do so. This is not an ambiguous point.
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Old 02-08-2013   #131
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I like the personal contact, if only raising the camera and eyebrows to get tacit approval. But at the same time there's reluctance to intrude, and shyness to overcome. Sometimes I chicken out, but when it goes well I'm glad. If asked I explain I'm doing a project of "people at work" or "people just doing their thing"... and it won't be in the newspaper!

If they decline, that's ok of course. If I stay and chat a bit sometimes they'll change their mind. I do cultivate a harmless friendly appearance, which probably helps.
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Old 02-08-2013   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by van_d View Post
Boris: if you know your gear well enough, you can frame decently from the hip.
Dear Van,

I do know my gear well enough i can assure you. Getting the foreground object in the frame and having in the background whatever is not my personal idea of a good photo. Shooting from the hip is BS to me as usually those pictures have nothing much to say- shooting Elvis-i would understand. I shoot a lot with 28mm and 24 mm along with my 50 and it is obvious that I can shoot and get the object in the frame not only from the hip but from between the legs too if i want to. It's just not good enough for me. For you, may be.
I never had a problem with communication so I don't have to hide and shoot secretly.

Sorry for the OT and no offense please, just my opinion.

Regards,

Boris
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Old 02-08-2013   #133
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I find taking pictures without consent that may potentially have a negative consequence for the photographed ethically dubious. And that judgement outweighs my "craving" of potential clicks on my flickr stream. Most of the things I see do not justify the photograph weighted against the possible consequences for the "candidly, socially documentary" depicted persons.

In addition I try not to perceive the camera as a filter between me and "them" to show off my photographic genius but rather as a link. But that is just just my angle of view.

And I also like just a brick wall in good light. Period.
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Old 02-11-2013   #134
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I love reading threads like this..
Hearing how other photographer's "take" on the subject of street photography is of great interest to me..

As far as how the OP handled it.. You did fine..

Do this street shooting thing long enough. And you realize you cant make everyone happy.. If you get the shot and you get home.
And your pictures..dont completly suck..


Than as far as I am concerned your on the right road..

you got's to do what's right for "you"
And leave everyone else to do wat they think is best for them.


With more experince, you will find "your" way..

Over the years.. I have to expect that not everyone will like me having there picture.. taken....

It's the street... It's the concrete jungle..

Being confident and self assured is key..



If they dont like it To God damn bad.. I never give them back LOL..

And I would resist in a most strong manner if I was asked to delete a photo.. or when /if they grab for my camera..

However, these days. For the most part, I shoot film so even if they ask.. I tell them "NO".

Sorry it's film..

"But dont worry.. I still put your picture on the internet.. Hahahha...


And than I tell them I would love to talk about it, but they have to keep up..

I have never had anyone want to argue enough that they followed me as I started shooting other people..

Just staying busy shooting/ looking for the "next shot.. Really solves most issues..
I am sure it helps that I can walk really fast..


And while I may indeed be giving photographer's a bad name..

I LOVE to get up close and personal..

Always have..



Nikkor 24 2.8 AI-S on Fm Tri-X

I have no use for staged or posed street shots..

So I adopt a shoot first and ask questions later approach..

And I only regret the picture's I dont have the guts to shoot..



If at all possible I wait untill the last possible moment pre-visualize and quickly raise the camera and focus/click..

Which can be done.. lightening quick with practice.






After that I am more than happy to talk to them.. But for the most part..

I like to keep moving.. and on to the next person..



Setting for long periods of time ... staring with the camera has never been my thing.. But hey to each there own..

Personally I dont have such limited set of rules..

I will also shoot from the chest..

I will act confused looking up while shooting someone standing right in front of me..


I will photograph someone and than look behind them like I was photographing
them and not the person..standing in front of me.

If I shoot person I will often quickly take a few shots of those around them..

I will point a camera and blindly shoot someone walking behind me..

t's all good..

For the most part,

I really think that people less threatened when there not singled out..

SO if your going to shoot , than "DO it" .. Bring lots of film. Or fill up your card..
But shoot , shoot and shoot..


And by gettig used to raising a camera and going click..

You get over it..



But that's just my experince..




From my experinece give people a reason "not" to hassel you and they will often take it..

Latley, I have taken to acting a little crazy/spaced/zoned out..

In short , I look really confused.. For me it's not that hard.. hahaha

Anyways, I learned to use all kinds of little tricks..

Like focusing on a point the same distance away but to the side of the subject, than quickly turning.. click..

Got ya.. haha



And while I am sure the folks out there think I bat **** loney.. I dont care..
If it allows me to take some photo's that I other wise wouldnt .. or cause conflict for me while shooting.. I dont realy care to feel bad..
So long as I get the picture.. And I go home.. I am good to go.

As far as acting a little crazy.. well

Even the most primitive of society's have an innate respect for the insane..

But in 90 % of the time.. I take a picture.. Give my little nod of appreciation.. a little smile..

It goes along way.
So yes..by all means.. smile after a little nod after a image..







However.. that being said..

Listening to several of the comments on this thread..

It just seems to me that more than a few photogrpaher.. have so many personal hang ups and fears..It's probally best they dont shoot street.

It can be dangerous..

And yes can.. or you may be attacked..

And If you do it long enough you will have contact will law enforcement..

Be polite and stand your ground..


It's none of the business what your taking pictures of..

It really isnt..

And being a published photojournalist.. I consider myself to be a photojournalist..

So that gives me certain.. Get out of my face F ing appraoch.. with authourty types..

Over the years.. I have my fair share of incidences..

Looking to get into some more later this week hahahah..

You got to a sense of humor.. or really what is the point.. ?


For the most part.. If the situation turns hositil.. I try to de-escalate.. And short of that blending/re-directing And if push comes to shove.

Well, sometimes you got's to protect your self..

My skill set in that area may not be what your is... so I dont want say to much about that...


However, maintaining your personal space is going to go a long way to not getting sucker punched..


The conflict side of street shooting It's not something that "many photographers want to hear.. but it's true..

And I for one will not let that stop me from doing it..

Like I said to each his own..


But for the most part 99.99% of conflict can be resolved with out the need for violence..

The fact is often as photographer.. we are taken.. intimate moments of people's lives.. And for the most part.. Having to do this is really hard..

And it takes a certain... drive.. or willingness that most just dont have..

So be it..

Street photography isnt for everyone..

And these day's especaily in the west.. It seems many "loves" to tell me what I can and can not to photographically on the street..

But honestly. I rarely if ever see anyone else shooting people on the street around these parts.. ?

In the last couple of years.. I bet I have seen less than 5/10 ..

Not sure why that is.. other than folks are scared to do it ..

For me, confronting that fear.. is one the main reasons to keep banging away..






I am just changing/re-building my kit..
And have just picked up a 21 .18 ASPH /M2 (specifically acquired to go with a second, M2 and the 35 1.2 ASPH.. which will be my go to street set up, for the end of winter/spring.








I can't wait...



I have made some pretty bold smack here, so I have included some images..


I dont have much of my recent film work scanned/printed yet.. But here is some of early work..

"The best pictures are yet to be taken.."




Nikkor 16 2.8 AI-S on F2as





Nikkor 24 f 2 AIS on FM-2 T-maz 3200




Nikon F2as 16 AI-s on Tri-X




Nikkor 24 2.8 AI-S on Fm2. Tri-X







Nkkor 300 2.8 IF-ED AI-S on F2as Color neg converted to B=W in digital post..




Nikkor 135 2.0 on F2as Tri-X ..





Nikkor 50 2.0 AI-S on Color neg digitally converted..





Nikkor 400 2.8 IF-ED AI-S on Nikon D3 hand held..




Nikkor 24 2.8 On Fm-2 Kodachrome 64






Leica M3 15 4.5 ASPH on 100 asa

Rogalsky photography on facebook..
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Old 02-11-2013   #135
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I read through this thread and noticed that many photographers said they would call the police if a situation turned ugly. Recent news says that police officers do not have a duty to project citizens.

"Protect and serve" is pretty much over. Be careful out there.
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Old 02-11-2013   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikkor AIS View Post

If at all possible I wait untill the last possible moment pre-visualize and quickly raise the camera and focus/click..

Which can be done.. lightening quick with practice.
I use this approach with 35mm and 50mm lenses... but you tend to use what seems like every focal length ever made. Are you that proficient with the longer lenses too or does the added focal length not require you to be so discreet?
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Old 02-11-2013   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taskoni View Post
I never had any problems taking pictures of strangers without asking



I think shooting from the hip is stupid - not having control on what you are doing doesn't count for me

Regards,

Boris
This kind of photo and the way you post it on a website is exactly what I find unpleasant about streetphotography. It doesn't really strike me as a decent thing to do.
This elderly lady obviously doesn't like having her picture taken, is it really too much to ask for the decency to respect that wish? And then you even make fun of her by posting her picture on a public forum in a thread about the very thing she feels quite strongly about.
I guess you could say it is within your legal rights to do so. But then again there are many indecent things that are perfectly legal.

Maybe I shouldn't call you out like this, as it's not really a nice thing to do either but then again I guess since it's perfectly legal to do so, maybe I shouldn't have any such reservations about it?
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Old 02-11-2013   #138
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Maybe I shouldn't call you out like this, as it's not really a nice thing to do either but then again I guess since it's perfectly legal to do so, maybe I shouldn't have any such reservations about it?
It's legal to start you lawnmower at 7:00 on a saturday morning. Good neighbors won't do this.
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Old 02-11-2013   #139
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This kind of photo and the way you post it on a website is exactly what I find unpleasant about streetphotography
The point would rather be : is this photo interesting ? Was it worth shooting that old woman in spite of her obvious refusal ? What does want the photographer to show ? What is the message of the photo ? How was the light ? Is it a photo which can raise up emotions ? Is it poetic ? How is the composition ? Can we stand in front of it for a long while to get all what the photo has to tell us ?

Etc.

Does street photography have to obey the common rules when it comes to what makes a photograph interesting, or not ?

[From someone who shoots in the streets a lot].
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Old 02-11-2013   #140
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Ummm...a couple of things. First, we, the viewers know nothing of the situation as the photo was taken. Secondly, you do not know the photographer personally as I do and I can assure you he is the most ethical, kind and loving photographer I know. Having said that, posting photos on a photography forum in seriousness is not making fun of the motif. No more than posting photos of naked women being exploitation. It all depends on many things and the photo of which you speak was interesting and fair for discussion. It was not the photographer making fun of the motif.

If we had censureship on everyone for something as minor as this, well, what is the purpose of photography? IMHO.
Yes, I guess it could even be staged in the sense that it is his own grandmother and he asked her to act as if she didnt like her picture taken. In that case my comments would be missing the mark. All I see is an elderly lady that does not like to have her picture taken, and she even seems upset about it. I could even imagine her being upset about it for a longer period of time. But hey, it's all perfectly legal, so it must be o.k.!

Also, am I really that wrong about him being humorous about this picture and the reaction of the lady? To me his comment to this picture seems be intended as a humorous comment. As well as using exactly this thread to post it in. By posting it here the context changes, making what he is saying with this photo different than if he would post it somewhere else. In a sense this woman's discomfort is exactly the point he is trying to make.

As for the intended motif, even the greatest art can be quite rude or exploitative. And sometimes I can even agree that it was worth it. In this case I only see a disrespect for this lady's wishes (IF I'm reading her emotions right and IF she is not acting those emotions), and while it is a competent photo, in this case I question whether the artistic weigth is worth it.

One last thing to add: another problem is that this picture could now start to lead it's own life, as it were. The fact that I am now using it as a grandstand and example of rude photography means that this lady's image has become more than the original photographer intended. After posting it online the photographer has no control over it any more. Somebody else could start using it in rude and unethical ways. The lady might not even like that her image now serves as my argument. As long as you can't really control what this picture will say because you cant control thecontext is all the more reason as to why this lady's wishes deserve some respect.
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Old 02-11-2013   #141
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With street photography there is no reason to be aggressive and annoying when the results are not going to make anyone any money or bring them fame and recognition. One might as well enjoy the experience of street photography because there are just too many street photographers and their street photos.
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Old 02-11-2013   #142
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I do not know what is significant or interesting about taking a picture of a stranger in the street and showing their misery, discontent or negative reaction to the interaction. When I look at a photograph, I try to put myself into the shoes of the picture taker and quite often it is not clear to me what the motivation behind the picture was. Moreover, I myself start feeling uncomfortable when looking at those pictures. Sure, I tried it myself but did not find it worthwhile to harp on it more thoroughly. I would not publish these pictures anyhow. I talked with others (photographers) about it. They said: "Maybe they just want to show that they have balls" and something along those lines.

Or the general concept of street photography has simply become something like "Running around with a specific camera brand and trying to emulate Bruce Gilden or Henri Cartier-Bresson". Or maybe Capa's concept of "getting close" is meanwhile taken to literary. To me that saying does not necessarily mean shoving a lens into the face and banging on it with a flash. :-)

I hope the workshop guys and gals out there are doing a good job by helping the participants along with developing an own unique photographic vision instead of producing a steady stream of Brucies. I think that would also be in his sense, but who knows.

As a last note I would like say something about "Not leaving a bad trail for others that follow." For example, if you are approaching a specific subject matter in a disrespectful and rude way, it is remembered. And it may make it difficult for others to explore that subject matter photographically in a more serious manner.
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Old 02-11-2013   #143
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With street photography there is no reason to be aggressive and annoying when the results are not going to make anyone any money or bring them fame and recognition. One might as well enjoy the experience of street photography because there are just too many street photographers and their street photos.
So: money, fame and recognition DO justify being aggressive and annoying?

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Old 02-11-2013   #144
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I do not know what is significant or interesting about taking a picture of a stranger in the street and showing their misery, discontent or negative reaction to the interaction. When I look at a photograph, I try to put myself into the shoes of the picture taker and quite often it is not clear to me what the motivation behind the picture was. Moreover, I myself start feeling uncomfortable when looking at those pictures. Sure, I tried it myself but did not find it worthwhile to harp on it more thoroughly. I would not publish these pictures anyhow. I talked with others (photographers) about it. They said: "Maybe they just want to show that they have balls" and something along those lines.

Or the general concept of street photography has simply become something like "Running around with a specific camera brand and trying to emulate Bruce Gilden or Henri Cartier-Bresson". Or maybe Capa's concept of "getting close" is meanwhile taken to literary. To me that saying does not necessarily mean shoving a lens into the face and banging on it with a flash. :-)

I hope the workshop guys and gals out there are doing a good job by helping the participants along with developing an own unique photographic vision instead of producing a steady stream of Brucies. I think that would also be in his sense, but who knows.

As a last note I would like say something about "Not leaving a bad trail for others that follow." For example, if you are approaching a specific subject matter in a disrespectful and rude way, it is remembered. And it may make it difficult for others to explore that subject matter photographically in a more serious manner.
Exactly!

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R.
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Old 02-11-2013   #145
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NEVER shoot from the hip. It's sneaky, and makes it seem like you have something to hide. Make it obvious that you're a photographer

There is *nothing* wrong with street photography. So don't hide.
Agreed.

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Old 02-11-2013   #146
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So: money, fame and recognition DO justify being aggressive and annoying?

Cheers,

R.
The paparazzi are a good example but then being people's paparazzi without any promise of reward seems a little strange. However, as someone mentioned above, the thrill of feeling empowered by taking photos of people without their permission could be the buzz some people want.
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Old 02-11-2013   #147
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Or the general concept of street photography has simply become something like "Running around with a specific camera brand and trying to emulate Bruce Gilden or Henri Cartier-Bresson".
Yes, probably, although Cartier-Bresson and Bruce Gilden don't have much in common.
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Old 02-11-2013   #148
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I do not know what is significant or interesting about taking a picture of a stranger in the street and showing their misery, discontent or negative reaction to the interaction. When I look at a photograph, I try to put myself into the shoes of the picture taker and quite often it is not clear to me what the motivation behind the picture was. Moreover, I myself start feeling uncomfortable when looking at those pictures. Sure, I tried it myself but did not find it worthwhile to harp on it more thoroughly. I would not publish these pictures anyhow. I talked with others (photographers) about it. They said: "Maybe they just want to show that they have balls" and something along those lines.

Or the general concept of street photography has simply become something like "Running around with a specific camera brand and trying to emulate Bruce Gilden or Henri Cartier-Bresson". Or maybe Capa's concept of "getting close" is meanwhile taken to literary. To me that saying does not necessarily mean shoving a lens into the face and banging on it with a flash. :-)

I hope the workshop guys and gals out there are doing a good job by helping the participants along with developing an own unique photographic vision instead of producing a steady stream of Brucies. I think that would also be in his sense, but who knows.

As a last note I would like say something about "Not leaving a bad trail for others that follow." For example, if you are approaching a specific subject matter in a disrespectful and rude way, it is remembered. And it may make it difficult for others to explore that subject matter photographically in a more serious manner.
too serious man.....

no one is going to spoil someone else's experiences.
many many SP are way considerate than not....
why not go out with any brand camera and a 35 of 50 fov and see what SP is all about... for a few months.
It is about capturing the energy of the moment, Not asking what the photographer thought when they took it. You are on the wrong end of why you look at any art or photograph.
Look for your interpretation of the image.... NOT, why it was taken, or the philosophy that photographer might have while taking it.

me thinks, you think too much, and just go out and take a ton of photos instead to explore a genre, rather than build a false impression about a genre you have not given an honest try first.

Oh, I sure to flamed for this reply... being not my style.... but, sheesh.... come on ......
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Old 02-11-2013   #149
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all good street photographers use either a leica or hexar af - they shoot from the hip and only use b/w film

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Old 02-11-2013   #150
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Such strange responses to street photography.

I am not a pervert. I am not a voyeur. I am not some egomaniac who has to prove I have a set of balls to go along with my fancy cameras. My intent is to never exploit or demean people in any way. The scenes that unfold before me may play a part in that, but I do not. It is never my goal to make people uncomfortable with my street photography. If I do that, then I have failed in executing the technique and passion that is unique to me.

I simply document what I see before me. I hardly ever title my photos because it is rare when I want to influence how the viewer sees or influence what they think about one of my shots.

Street photography is a beautiful art form. Perhaps a lot of the negativity that some folks have to it speaks volumes about their misconceptions about the intent and purpose of street photographers. At that point they need to look in the mirror and face their own suspicions and paranoia about themselves.
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