Three rolls wiped clean!

[Pirate]

Just got back into developing and I'm using some new chemicals. Three rolls so far have come out completely wiped. I mean you can see through the entire roll while it's on the reel, wiped.

I'm using Rollei High Speed Developer, cut to a 1+7 working solution as per the instructions on the bottle, then cut to 1+7 for developing time of 5 minutes.

Eco-Pro Stop Bath, cut 1+31 as per the instructions on the bottle, then I cut it 1+19 for the allotted time of 10 seconds per the instructions on the bottle, then I use plain water for a few rinses to make sure all the developer is out and everything is stopped.

Kodak Kodafix Fixer, cut per the instructions on the bottle. Did the Clear test and then doubled it as per the instructions and came up with a Fixer time of 50 seconds.

10 minutes of running water for a final Wash.

Pulled out the reel and looked right through the entire roll.

Any thoughts? Suggestions? This happen to anyone using any of these chemicals???

[Saul]

Sounds like you developed your film with the fixer.

[Pirate]

Not possible. I have everything labeled and made up a fresh batch of developer for this last test roll so I would be sure I got it all correct.

[MartinP]

What is the film ? 120 or 35mm or ?? Are there any visible edge-markings or, for 35mm, exposed black leader ? If so, then the film was not exposed (eg. shutter fault). If there are no markings of any sort then you developed in the fixer, or the developer is totally dead.

This latter scenario can be checked by seeing if your bottles marked as 'developer' and 'fixer' will blacken a piece of exposed film, or clear it . . . More usual is that the fixer and developer are mixed up while in the cylinders/containers prior to going in to the tank. Everyone does this once

[af_]

120 Film? Did you insert the film the wrong way into the camera, with the paper facing the lens?

Don't ask how I know this!

[sevo]

Originally Posted by Pirate

I'm using Rollei High Speed Developer, cut to a 1+7 working solution as per the instructions on the bottle, then cut to 1+7 for developing time of 5 minutes.

You mean you diluted it twice, to a total of 1+49? That was one 1+7 too many...

Sevo

[kermaier]

I had that happen once when I was developing two tanks with two different film types simultaneously. The Tri-X in D-76 came out fine, but the TMax 100 in TMax dev came out see-through clear. Seems in all the parallel mixing, pouring, timing, inverting, etc I forgot to add the developer to one tank. I normally use a water stop, but a water dev doesn't work as well.

Ari

[Freakscene]

Your description makes it sound like you're diluting the developer twice. You only dilute once with RHS to 1+7, 1+9 or 1+15 for use.

Marty

[Pirate]

Hmmm.... Ok, sorry for the lack of info, my head wasn't as clear as my film...

Efke KB25 25 ISO 135 film

I just did another test roll, this time without the Stop Bath, using just water in it's place.

Came out completely clean again.

Yes I was diluting to what the bottle said, which is 1+8 for the Working Solution. Then I was diluting for the 1+7 Developing. Can the film be wiped with not enough developer being used?? I really would not think this could happen.

So what would you guys suggest for another test roll?

[Pirate]

No edge markings, nothing, nada, zip.

I did the Clear test - a drop of the fixer on a piece of the film for 30 seconds, then drop the whole chunk in the fixer and mark the time it takes for the rest of the piece to look like the 30 second marked spot, then double that. Took 26 seconds for the rest of the piece to look like the spot, doubled is 52 seconds. That's the Clearing time - unless I did that wrong.

[jpa66]

I would also suggest trying another developer. that way you can begin to isolate what is going wrong.

[Pirate]

I'll have to order something else, this is all I have right now. I'd been using Tetenal Neofin Blau with great results but wanted something a little less contrasty so I went with the Rollei. Guess I'll order some new stuff and some more film too.....

Meanwhile, I have two rolls left of this Efke 25 to play with and figure out what I'm doing wrong.

[Bob Michaels]

Originally Posted by Pirate

<snip> Any thoughts? Suggestions?

In room light, cut off a bit of the leader of a fresh roll of film. Pour some developer into a glass or small tray. Drop the leader into the developer. If it stays clear and does not turn black, the developer is certainly the problem.

Then, in room light pull out a few inches of film. Go where it is dark and pull out a few more. Cut film. Load that short strip (with a few inches well exposed and a few inches unexposed) into the tank. Process as you have been. You should end up with a short strip of film of which half is black and the other half clear.

Trim a leader on the remainder of the same roll of film, load in camera and shoot. Process normally.

Somewhere along these steps you will conclude where the problem is or that the past problems were you.

[Pirate]

Thanks guys, I'll give that a try.

Yes, this Fixer has a Hardener in it.

[Pirate]

The package says to Fix for 5-10 minutes, or twice the clearing time.

So I did the clearing test and that's how I came up with 50 seconds - it's twice the clearing time.

Should I go back to 5 minutes?

[Tim Gray]

That is the clearing time test. You still might want to extend it a bit to 2-3 mins.

Back to the developing. If there are no edge markings, it's not the camera, it's the developing for sure. As long as you are 100% sure you did put developer in there, it sounds like the developer is dead/not working.

You can drop a bit of film in a cup of developer in full light as a test. It should turn milky black.

Also, it really does sound like you are diluting it twice. Dilute the concentration, whatever originally came in the bottle, to 1+7 and develop with that.

[Pirate]

Alright, cut off a leader, dropped it into a straight 1+7, about 30 seconds into it, the leader turned Black. Giving it a little agitation now and then, and it's still black.

[Pirate]

So I've been UnderDeveloping it?

I can't see how not enough Developer would wipe everything out. I must be thinking about all this just backwards of how it really works. The Developer makes the image stick? So too little developer just wrecks things up a bit but it's not enough for anything to stick so it all just washes off??

Obviously it's late here and no light, so first thing in the morning I'll be outside shooting up this roll and developing at 1+7 with no Stop-Bath and I'll give the Fixer 3 minutes, then we'll go from there.

Thanks for all the help, I really couldn't do all this without you guys!!

[Tim Gray]

Ignoring the actual chemistry:

The developer turns the exposed silver black. The unexposed silver doesn't do anything. The fixer then removes all the undeveloped silver - it doesn't care if it was exposed or not, just as long as it was undeveloped.

So, yes, massively diluting your developer could cause it to not develop anything, and then you remove ALL of the silver from the film when you put it in the fixer. Effectively the same as putting your film directly in the fixer and skipping the development step altogether.

[Pirate]

Holy Cow, that makes sense now. Thanks! We'll see how tomorrow turns out with these last two rolls.

[MartinP]

Probably it is a good idea to read the instructions for the chemicals before using them too. Sounds silly, but 'assuming' times and temperatures and dilutions will eventually not work out.

[Pirate]

Honestly, I read them and thought I was following them correctly. I'll have to take a digi pic of the bottle and show what I was reading and why I thought I was doing it correctly all this time.

[Thardy]

Originally Posted by Pirate

So I've been UnderDeveloping it?

I can't see how not enough Developer would wipe everything out. I must be thinking about all this just backwards of how it really works. The Developer makes the image stick? So too little developer just wrecks things up a bit but it's not enough for anything to stick so it all just washes off??

Obviously it's late here and no light, so first thing in the morning I'll be outside shooting up this roll and developing at 1+7 with no Stop-Bath and I'll give the Fixer 3 minutes, then we'll go from there.

Thanks for all the help, I really couldn't do all this without you guys!!

Gross undevelopment is like fixing the film first as someone else said.

Go with 1:7 for five min, at 20 C. And you should be good to go.

http://www.digitaltruth.com/products...rospekt_gb.pdf

[gliderbee]

Originally Posted by Pirate

J
I'm using Rollei High Speed Developer, cut to a 1+7 working solution as per the instructions on the bottle, then cut to 1+7 for developing time of 5 minutes.

I think "working solution" is just that: the solution you work with. If you dilute that again by that amount, there's no developing going on because your developer is way too weak and all the silver will be removed by the fixer, hence a nice blank film.

Stefan.

[sevo]

Originally Posted by Pirate

Yes I was diluting to what the bottle said, which is 1+8 for the Working Solution. Then I was diluting for the 1+7 Developing. Can the film be wiped with not enough developer being used??

Of course it will be wiped, at least if you re-dilute to such a minimal concentration and do not increase the development accordingly - people doing ultra-low concentration stand development count the times in hours rather than seconds.

You are supposed to work with the working solution - if you are to prepare a intermediate which is to be re-diluted for use that is called a "stock" solution.