Sharkskin Leica IIIC K ~ 1950's Hybrid camera find

[LeicaTom]

Just received this in the mail today ~ A 1945 issued Leica IIIC K #3909xx K (July 1945) LOOKX (Leica IIIC K w/Summitar) which was originally Grey, but sometime around 1948/49 the camera had a factory/professional upgrade, was "de-militarized" top and bottom plates shiny/satin chromed and a "Sharkskin" body shell added.....

The rest of the camera is all 1945 as issued and what's really great is the original shutter curtains are still in the camera, the white "K" is still boldly visible on curtain #1 ~ curtains are "light tight"so they are ready to go!



I've seen about 4 or 5 of these type of cameras already, some here in the states, the others were in England, so a few IIIC K's went back to Leitz to get "upgraded" from tatty looking beaters, to modern looking cameras.......no one was really thinking about that someday these cameras would become valuable collectors items, and just like the Leitz factory conversions, this camera is a hybrid of sorts, a unique article of history.

I was considering this to be a "project" before I got it into my hands, a possible camera to strip and restore back to original grey, but the finish and work on the camera is too way too nice to ruin, so it's going to be my daily "user" and it will be getting a COMPLETE OVERHAUL, as soon as Youxin's back from China, I already have a secondary parts camera (1942) which will be providing some swap-out knobs and levers, and everything else will be adjusted, and that Summitar sitting on it is a "wartime" produced 1943/1946 issued lens and will be focused to be used this body.

I'll have some more detailed pix of the camera, as time goes by to add here, just thought I'd share this with interested people here.

Enjoy!

Tom

PS: I want to say thanks to Chris for finding this camera and offering it to me, it's going to be a really kool shooter...I'll be using another "K" shutter Leica for my PinUp work all the time, I'm really stoked ~ This makes #6 now, 6 original K shuttered Leica IIIC's, I'd like to find a "real" 1942 Chrome one still and maybe a "minty" 1945 Grey camera with it's original issue Summitar, 8 cameras that's enough!

[Loman]

What a beauty. I used to have a plain jane IIIc that was converted to a IIIF. It took some time to get used to the shark skin but in the end I really liked it.

Kind Regards

Mads

[LeicaTom]

Originally Posted by Loman

What a beauty. I used to have a plain jane IIIc that was converted to a IIIF. It took some time to get used to the shark skin but in the end I really liked it.

Kind Regards

Mads

Yes, this is the first "user" camera I've ever had with Sharkskin covering, but I can say I like the feel of it already, I think it's going to work well.

Just have to get used to seeing a K on the top plate, after the serial number ~ only used to seeing them on Grey painted cameras as I handle them, it's too bad that Leitz made less than 500 original Chrome IIIC K's in 1942, and that very very few of them survived the war it seems.........

Tom

[???]

Now I have to re-skin my M with shark.

I picked up a pair of shark boots recently and love them though they require much more conditioning than my other boots.

[sykotec]

glad you're happy with it - I knew that thing had to be 'rescued' from a shelf and put into real use. I thought about keeping it myself, but it belongs in your hands. besides, neat as it is, my IIIf that Don went through several years ago is just TOO smooth to give up. looking forward to a CL that's on the way to him as well. finally and M mount, even if it is a 'lowly' one!

the sharkskin IS pretty neat - whenever the vulcanite on the IIIf gets bad I'll have to flip a coin between recovering with griptac and swapping with a sharkskin shell.

[sykotec]

I've had a pair of (Nocona I think?) sharkskin boots for about... 20 years now. they've been resoled a few times, but broke in really well after about a decade. give 'em time.

Originally Posted by ???

Now I have to re-skin my M with shark.

I picked up a pair of shark boots recently and love them though they require much more conditioning than my other boots.

[johnnygulliver]

the post-war upgrade is history too, it's a difficult one to call... is it 'original' or restored.

[LeicaTom]

Another shot of my latest acquisition the 1948/49 Leica IIIC K upgrade/with Sharkskin covering, this time with a "wartime" build US Army issued "coated" f3.5/50mm Elmar lens. (background is 1950/51 era Leica Photography Magazines).

That "sharkskin" covering is really nice, it's too bad that Leitz didn't stay with that covering, they only issued it (two years) 1949/50 TOO BAD :/

Waiting for next month's CLA/Resto from Youxin (he will be doing a full rebuild/restoration/knobs-levers swap) and the speical CLA'd (a very very RARE "wartime" lens *it will be a SUPRISE!*) that will be coming back from DAG hopefully under 30 days ~ the crazy looking combo will be the FIRST time anyone at RFF TESTS the two out together, I'm crossing fingers that the lens comes back with near perfect shooting glass ~ can't wait!

Enjoy!

Tom

[buzzardkid]

So you found that wartime lens you were looking for, Tom?

Boy, can't wait to see shots of and with that!

Is that donor camera a wartime number? If Youxin will finish the job with a still fully or partly functional donor camera, I might be interested in that, to help you cover expenses. Mail me off the board at johan@portretteur.nl to arrange if you like.

BTW, one of your remarks in e-mail set me on a trail to something nice as well and I'm probably closing the deal this weekend. If I do, I'll post here and show off

[LeicaTom]

Originally Posted by buzzardkid

So you found that wartime lens you were looking for, Tom?

Boy, can't wait to see shots of and with that!

Is that donor camera a wartime number? If Youxin will finish the job with a still fully or partly functional donor camera, I might be interested in that, to help you cover expenses. Mail me off the board at johan@portretteur.nl to arrange if you like.

BTW, one of your remarks in e-mail set me on a trail to something nice as well and I'm probably closing the deal this weekend. If I do, I'll post here and show off

No I'm still looking for a CZJ Sonnar T f2/50mm in original LTM ......

Concerning #3774xx check your email, I will have enclosed all the info about it...consider it yours, I admire a man with initiative, I have gotten many cameras and collectibles that way too, Thanks Johan!

Tom

[buzzardkid]

Tom,

looking forward to that e-mail of yours, this might be the winter project I was looking for!

EDIT: Düh, I wasn't paying attention, you sent me info on that before, reading it now

[LeicaTom]

Originally Posted by buzzardkid

Tom,

looking forward to that e-mail of yours, this might be the winter project I was looking for!

Johan,

Check your mail.......I hope that it's an alright deal for you, pretty much a midwartime "stepper" that just needs some cleaning up CLA and a nice recovering, a
"jewel in the rough" ~ go ahead and write me back I'll be up all night here

Tom

[Jaans]

Tom - I have been following your IIICK threads off and on for a while now. I actually first learnt about the history of this particular camera from rangefinderforum from one of your original longer threads (was deleted, don't know why?). I then checked Mr Gandy's website and had a further read about this interesting camera.

I admit that I have started to lust after one of these, but from the few examples that I have seen sold on the internet, they are too expensive for my budget.

I have a few questions about them.. Firstly, what are IIICK's grey cameras going for in reasonable condition? I saw one on e-bay maybe two weeks ago and it went for $2500. Is that the norm? Is it better to get one in less condition and do it up like the one you got. I prefer the grey cameras personally.

Also, where have all the IIICK's gone and why are there so few left being sold on auction sites? Are they in the hands of collectors or just not many left in existence/destroyed in the war?

Anyway, thanks for sharing some more information about your excellent find!

[LeicaTom]

Originally Posted by Jaans

Tom - I have been following your IIICK threads off and on for a while now. I actually first learnt about the history of this particular camera from rangefinderforum from one of your original longer threads (was deleted, don't know why?). I then checked Mr Gandy's website and had a further read about this interesting camera.

I admit that I have started to lust after one of these, but from the few examples that I have seen sold on the internet, they are too expensive for my budget.

I have a few questions about them.. Firstly, what are IIICK's grey cameras going for in reasonable condition? I saw one on e-bay maybe two weeks ago and it went for $2500. Is that the norm? Is it better to get one in less condition and do it up like the one you got. I prefer the grey cameras personally.

Also, where have all the IIICK's gone and why are there so few left being sold on auction sites? Are they in the hands of collectors or just not many left in existence/destroyed in the war?

Anyway, thanks for sharing some more information about your excellent find!

They are STILL out there......the Grey cameras are and have always been collectible since day one, the American GI's coveted them and they were on the top of the lists of the black market trade items after May 1945 in Europe.....

Prices, well they have been $1,200+ plus for over 10 years now, the days of getting one for $250 are long gone, (I never paid less than $1,500 for any Grey Painted K I've ever owned, I've always paid good money for them).

Top condition IIIC K Grey paint cameras are in the norm at $2,500, but most cameras aren't that nice anymore, finding any camera that's Grey and has 90% or better paint is a jewel, the average condition paint/and beat up vulcanite cameras are $1,400+

Prices aren't going to come down, if anything they are going to go up, while the offered examples of these cameras are getting thinner and thinner.....

Here was a camera that was originally a Grey issue "normal bearing" camera, but it was painted by someone, whoever did it seems to have done a nice job, the price was decent, about what you would pay for a quailty paintjob, anyway.......

http://cgi.ebay.com/1939-Leica-IIIc-...item19bf666bd1

Right now the market for the Grey cameras is all but dead, most dealers realize that no one has the money for these at the moment and the best condition cameras are being HELD by collectors now and NOT offered for sale, most cameras seen on evilbay or online are "second rate" examples and are worn out, not original and or missing their original lenses........and for me that's a real factor in buying a camera in the first place, keeping it real and all original, restoring is fine also, to get any camera BACK to original operating condition, while a broken IIIC K is a sad camera too good to shelve and sit in a China cabinet, all of mine, cept the 1943 are used, they are fun and maybe the hybrid/best version of all the Leica IIIC's

Good Luck in the Search!

Tom

[Jaans]

Originally Posted by LeicaTom

They are STILL out there......the Grey cameras are and have always been collectible since day one, the American GI's coveted them and they were on the top of the lists of the black market trade items after May 1945 in Europe.....

Prices, well they have been $1,200+ plus for over 10 years now, the days of getting one for $250 are long gone, (I never paid less than $1,500 for any Grey Painted K I've ever owned, I've always paid good money for them).

Here was a camera that was originally a Grey issue "normal bearing" camera, but it was painted by someone, whoever did it seems to have done a nice job, the price was decent, about what you would pay for a quailty paintjob, anyway.......

http://cgi.ebay.com/1939-Leica-IIIc-...item19bf666bd1

Right now the market for the Grey cameras is all but dead, most dealers realize that no one has the money for these at the moment and the best condition cameras are being HELD by collectors now and NOT offered for sale, most cameras seen on evilbay are "second rate" examples and are worn out, not original and missing their original lenses........for me that's a real factor in buying a camera in the first place.

Prices aren't going to come down, if anything they are going to go up, while the examples of these cameras are getting thinner and thinner

Good Luck!

Tom

Thanks for that comprehensive description of the market for this particular camera. Also, did you see that camera that I was referring to on e-bay that went for $2500 a little while ago - it seemed in very good condition. I can't remember if it had a K on the shutter. For me, I wouldn't purchase unless the K was on the shutter as that is one of the most attractive feature of the camera.

Also, why was that long thread deleted that was going here sometime ago. It was one of the most comprehensive areas of information about this camera that I have read on the net to date. It was a shame it was deleted as it would have made a good sticky.

Anyway, thanks again for sharing your knowledge on this most rare camera!

Cheers

[LeicaTom]

Originally Posted by Jaans

Thanks for that comprehensive description of the market for this particular camera. Also, did you see that camera that I was referring to on e-bay that went for $2500 a little while ago - it seemed in very good condition. I can't remember if it had a K on the shutter. For me, I wouldn't purchase unless the K was on the shutter as that is one of the most attractive feature of the camera.

Also, why was that long thread deleted that was going here sometime ago. It was one of the most comprehensive areas of information about this camera that I have read on the net to date. It was a shame it was deleted as it would have made a good sticky.

Anyway, thanks again for sharing your knowledge on this most rare camera!

Cheers

Ohh I deleted the thread due to some legal probs etc. etc. ~ I still plan a book/and or a "static" museum website featuring my cameras and a brief history of the camera.

I'm not sure I know the camera that did $2,500? Please send me a link to the auction at my email

koolgirliestuff@gmail.com

I have to see if it's on my camera lists, some cameras have "come back" after years in collections, some are being resold again

Tom

[greyelm]

I have a 1942 Summitar s/n 585*** . There are no special markings on it. Would this have been for civilian use or could it have been military issue.

Malcolm

[LeicaTom]

Originally Posted by greyelm

I have a 1942 Summitar s/n 585*** . There are no special markings on it. Would this have been for civilian use or could it have been military issue.

Malcolm

#585xxx is a 1942 build/1945 issue lens, was more than likely issued US Army Occupation Forces Germany, it is possibly coated as many of the postwar issued "Tar's" were...........good and fun shooting lens!

Tom

[buzzardkid]

I'll be shooting a '42 Stepper before X-mas! Youxin's gonna get it on track, how about Leica Red leather to replace vulcanite that came off? or ?

[LeicaTom]

Originally Posted by buzzardkid

I'll be shooting a '42 Stepper before X-mas! Youxin's gonna get it on track, how about Leica Red leather to replace vulcanite that came off? or ?

Ahhh red leather????? That will catch people's eyes that's for sure.......

Didn't you like the Black Lizard?????



I really like that........all my IIIC K's have original coverings, just this newest chrome one has the "sharkskin" and I'm not going to remove that, I suppose the next Ball-Bearing "Stepper" I buy I WILL put the Black Lizard skin on it and a "wartime" Sonnar for kicks!

.....Green covering looks really nice too



I mean there's so many early IIIC's out there which have NO/ 0% vulcanite, so why not put a POSH looking covering onto it?

Johan, what's the surprise deal you worked out this past weeekend???
?
Write me off the board first, ok?????

Tom

[Jaans]

Originally Posted by LeicaTom

Ohh I deleted the thread due to some legal probs etc. etc. ~ I still plan a book/and or a "static" museum website featuring my cameras and a brief history of the camera.

I'm not sure I know the camera that did $2,500? Please send me a link to the auction at my email

koolgirliestuff@gmail.com

I have to see if it's on my camera lists, some cameras have "come back" after years in collections, some are being resold again

Tom

Tom- unfortunately I have no link. I was following the auction for this camera on e-bay (about two weeks ago) and gave up once it hit $2000. I deleted it from my watch list but I think that it went for between $2200-2500. I'm pretty sure that there was a K on the shutter as well, which makes it more valuable I guess?? The cameras with the K on the shutter are more valuable right?

Shame about that former thread but I guess we can start again and contribute to a new thread about this most interesting camera!

Thanks again for your insight>

[enasniearth]

The camera Tom mentioned that was repainted black , if you look closely at the ad photos it retains it's grey paint vulcanite shell . The paint is worn but original . Still very nice painted black , the seller also had an early Russian 5cm lens that went high as it appeared to have zeiss glass with the light magenta coatings and the mount was very close in similarity to the wartime zeiss aluminum mount . Russian production for sure , very early though . The iiic appeared in the old iiic k thread at one point .

[LeicaTom]

Originally Posted by enasniearth

The camera Tom mentioned that was repainted black , if you look closely at the ad photos it retains it's grey paint vulcanite shell . The paint is worn but original . Still very nice painted black , the seller also had an early Russian 5cm lens that went high as it appeared to have zeiss glass with the light magenta coatings and the mount was very close in similarity to the wartime zeiss aluminum mount . Russian production for sure , very early though . The iiic appeared in the old iiic k thread at one point .

I don't remember that particular IIIC there?......WESTLICHT/Vienna sold a few of them in the past, some of them I remember posting there.....

It's really too bad that Leitz didn't make a BLACK factory "Stepper" IIIC ~ but they DID make a handfull of "Betreibs Cameras" *In House/Work* cameras in black about mid to late 1949, the same time that a black MOOLY C motor was made......but that's another story

Tom

[LeicaTom]

Originally Posted by Jaans

Tom- unfortunately I have no link. I was following the auction for this camera on e-bay (about two weeks ago) and gave up once it hit $2000. I deleted it from my watch list but I think that it went for between $2200-2500. I'm pretty sure that there was a K on the shutter as well, which makes it more valuable I guess?? The cameras with the K on the shutter are more valuable right?

Shame about that former thread but I guess we can start again and contribute to a new thread about this most interesting camera!

Thanks again for your insight>

oHH wait this was the one in the Netherlands.........



http://cgi.ebay.com/LEICA-ORIGINAL-W...item19bf3d9534

a "late" 1943 "K" that was originally from a stateside collection and sold on evilbay for like $1,400 and then was resold for $2,300

My opinion?

Nice camera, had the vulcanite touched up /repainted slightly, very pretty "patina" like 75% paint, the shutter K looks "dry" so there may have been material issues, overall a kool camera ~ (I just arranged a deal for one in about the same condition with the original matching numbers lens).

This camera was a deal at $1,400 (first sale) but resold at $2,300? ~ it's pretty pricey for it's lensless condition.......always one of my driving factors is that the camera STILL has it's original lens, you can't always find them that way, but when you do, it's wise advice to keep the combo together instead of breaking up history

Enjoy!

Tom

[Vickko]

Leica boutique has a IIIc grey. My bets are that it'll be expensive

https://www.leicaboutique.com/shop.p...=1&ENC=&IDSC=9