Broke my Leicavit yesterday....should I try to fix it ?

[jbrianfoto]

Hi all !

I was shooting a Bluegrass festival in West Virginia this weekend....wasn’t paying attention to how close I was to the end of my roll of film. Went to wind and POP - the end of the roll came and my advance trigger jumped off it's belt. It appears that the flexible belt is off it's gears or something. The trigger now moves in it's track (and will retract and lock in place as normal), but it does not advance the sprocket.

Has anyone else had this happen before? I'm fairly crafty and brave, is this something that the untrained can put back together, or should I send it off to be repaired? I have fixed my garage door opener a few times (it has a big rubber belt that jumps off it's tracks from time to time ;-)

BTW - this is one of the newer Leicavit MP models, only a few years old (not the original collectable one).

Thanks !

[icebear]

Hi there,

if there's any access to open it up, heck why not have a look for yourself. Maybe there's an easy fix, as it was obviously pretty easy for the belt to jump off some reel. I don't have the original Leicavit, I have the sturdier version, Tom's Rapidwinder . Good luck with the fix.

[zerobuttons]

Originally Posted by jbrianfoto

.....
I'm fairly crafty and brave, is this something that the untrained can put back together, or should I send it off to be repaired? I have fixed my garage door opener a few times (it has a big rubber belt that jumps off it's tracks from time to time ;-)
.....

This information make me say no. You have shown that you haven´t got the mechanical flair it takes to deduce why the belt jumps off at your garage door. Send the Leicavit to a trained repair person, and get your garage opener serviced by a person authorized by the manufacturer.

[Roger Hicks]

Originally Posted by zerobuttons

This information make me say no. You have shown that you haven´t got the mechanical flair it takes to deduce why the belt jumps off at your garage door. Send the Leicavit to a trained repair person, and get your garage opener serviced by a person authorized by the manufacturer.

Hmmmm.... Then again, I know why my garage door misbehaves. It was installed without lock nuts on the overhead runners (either that or they fell off before I bought the house), so the single nut on each one unscrews slowly. Every couple of years I tighten everything up. When I get around to it, I'll remove one nut and take it in as a sample.

Even so, I think I'd be in two minds about the Leicavit. Whenever I contemplate fixing anything myself, I factor in the hassle and expense of making a mistake, at which point it's going to cost me more to get it fixed that it would have if I'd taken it in to the repairer in the first place. It has to be pretty smple, or worth very little, before I get in among it myself -- but a Leicavit is pretty simple. I've resynchronised an old Singer sewing machine after someone else screwed it up, and fixed defective rangefinders on Zorkii 4Ks and a Werra 4, so I think I'd probably be brave enough to get into a current Leicavit. Just.

Cheers,

R.

[jbrianfoto]

Hiya Roger,

Thanks for the input - My garage door jumped off it's belt because my 4 year old engaged the door lock, without me knowig it, then I pressed the open button. That caused the motor to pull on the locked door, the only thing that would give was the rubber belt. Anyway, I was able to re-sync the belt and apply the proper amount of tension to get it running corretly again.

About the Vit - I think I'll carefully open it and see what kind of a mess is in there (and carefully photograph for reassembly if needed). If it looks like it is just a belt that has come off it's cogs, then I'll try to fix it. My concern is how sensitive the belt is to being stretched - or worse, that whatever attached the finger lever to the belt has been damaged. That being the case - I'll surely send it off for qualified repair.

I have always worried about trying to fix things my self - then in failing to do so - having to send it off to a trained person (who will then scold me for messing it up worse). That kind of embarrisment really stings.

I'll post here what I find when I open it up - maybe include some photos too.

[jbrianfoto]

Originally Posted by zerobuttons

This information make me say no. You have shown that you haven´t got the mechanical flair it takes to deduce why the belt jumps off at your garage door. Send the Leicavit to a trained repair person, and get your garage opener serviced by a person authorized by the manufacturer.

...this was my attempt at comedy - I realize there is a gap between the mechanics of a garage door opener and a Leicavit (although there are some fundamental parallels). My garage door works perfectly now (fixed it myself) - I'll take a stab at the Vit too. If I end up doing a good job I'll post the story here. If I screw it up, I'll keep it a secret ;-)

[35mmdelux]

dude, it has a billion parts in it. send it off -

[Tom A]

It does have a lot of parts in it. I took mine apart and when I got to 52 parts - i stopped counting!
It is unlikely that it has jumped a sprocket as it is a copy of my design for the Rapidwinder. Most likely the belt has come off at the leverblock (the part that the lever is attached to). Could also be torn off at the return spring end.
It is possible to take it apart and it is fairly simple to do so. I would venture inside it and check what is wrong - should be obvious.
It always amazed me that Leica used 50+ parts for their winder - and I got away with 8-9 of them in mine.

[StaaleS]

Originally Posted by Tom A

It always amazed me that Leica used 50+ parts for their winder - and I got away with 8-9 of them in mine.

Let's keep in mind that we are talking about German engineers here, not normal people Their motto seems to be that one should never use one part where five parts will do.

[jbrianfoto]

Thanks Tom !

You were right on the money. The belt is off the trigger, and the return spring is only attached on one end. One end of the belt (the end that contacts the sprockets) has slipped out of it's place - Heaven knows where it is supposed to go. I have some photos and will post them soon. Problem is, since I've never seen the inside of one that is working, I don't know where the spring attaches, or where the end of the belt is suposed to reside. My goodness - there are ALOT of parts in there, man. It looks so delicate. Good news is, from my inspection, nothing looks broken, so it cna probably be fixed in a jiffy. BTW - there were something like 5 individual grommets, spacers and brass washers on the spindle which drives the open/close cam. Wow.

[Tom A]

When Leica started working on the Leicavit, they told me about it. I offered to assist with the design as at that time I had more experience with trigger type winders than anyone else. They declined my offer - even though I would have done it for free (well, a week in Wetzlar in a Gaststatte and free beer). I saw it in various incarnations over the couple of years they were working on it and tried to explain 'Less is More". You dont need 5 shims, 2 flatsprings and other stuff for the locking mechanism!
It is a nice design and in a very un-german fashion, they copied me as to the drive/belt etc and Cosina as to the lever assembly.
There are some weak spots in it - it is not very well sealed against dust and grime. The belt is not too securely fastened (OP's experience proves that), the lever tends to "flop about" if you even breathe hard on it.
The case is nicely CNC machined and considerably stronger the the original - which was easily distorted by dropping it or even pushing hard at the bottom.
They missed the boat on the inside. Today's computer generated maching programs can incorporate a lot of the supports and tracks in the case, without having to resort too multiple parts. Too many springs too!!!!

[john battaglia]

my leicavit's lever just doesn't lock anymore, it just folds right back into the body with any amount of pressure applied. any ideas what has happened tom?

my used rapidwinder outlasted the new leicavit, thanks.

[Tom A]

Originally Posted by john battaglia

my leicavit's lever just doesn't lock anymore, it just folds right back into the body with any amount of pressure applied. any ideas what has happened tom?

my used rapidwinder outlasted the new leicavit, thanks.

There is a small flat spring that is supposed to hold the lever in position. It can get "tired" and stop doing so. It can also be due to it coming loose. You might have to take the thing apart and check. Should be an easy fix though.
I have to admit that I did overdimension all the parts in the Rapidwinder. I was more interested in having the thing work for a long time than a sophisticated design. The Leica version is very slick - but with each part added - you also add a potential problem.

[Ljós]

Originally Posted by Tom A

It always amazed me that Leica used 50+ parts for their winder - and I got away with 8-9 of them in mine.

Tom, how many parts does a M Leica have... 1100? 1200? Imagine a TomA-redesign that only needed 200 parts ;-)
You could then order the parts à-la-carte from Solms, and assemble it Leica-Lego-Ikea-Style in half an hour ;-)
There would appear Youtube-videos with blindfolded speedassemblies. You could of course assemble it according plan B, and would end up with an exquisite Espresso machine. ("Getting the best bokeh out of your beans!"). Espresso patina would be the new "brassing" :-)

;-) Ljós

[Tom A]

yes, but it would be a M2 and all the Leicaholics would protest. Not complicated enough and the finder would not be right (they always seem to berate the finder - dont know why?). Enough used ones out there (M2's that is) to satisfy the users anyway.
At one time I did a design for a "M7" (long before the current one. Incorporated Rapidwinder, release was oil-dampened, shutterspeed control as the M5 (best part of that camera), flush top-plate with the hot shoe countersunk and with a spring lock that stopped finder from falling off. Fun design project - but not really feasible in todays market.
It did however serve a purpose: Leica was faced with a problem when they announced the M7. Somebody in Germany had registered M7/M8 etc as a proprietary name and wanted Leica to pay for using it.
I had given a friend at Midland the sketches and design concept of the "M7" long before that and Leica could pull that out and say "Sorry dude, we already had this designation on a potential product" !

[Ljós]

Originally Posted by Tom A

yes, but it would be a M2 and all the Leicaholics would protest.

Not me, but then I only am up to my second M2 ;-)

[jbrianfoto]

All - here's a shot of the inside of my Vit. I am going to send it off for repair, but I thought everyone would like to see the insides. Thanks again to everyone for the interest and comments.

[Damaso]

I would highly recommend Tom's rapidwinder. I have one for each M6! Cheaper than a Leicavit and a lifetime warrenty, can't be beat...

[-doomed-]

Originally Posted by Tom A

It does have a lot of parts in it. I took mine apart and when I got to 52 parts - i stopped counting!
It is unlikely that it has jumped a sprocket as it is a copy of my design for the Rapidwinder. Most likely the belt has come off at the leverblock (the part that the lever is attached to). Could also be torn off at the return spring end.
It is possible to take it apart and it is fairly simple to do so. I would venture inside it and check what is wrong - should be obvious.
It always amazed me that Leica used 50+ parts for their winder - and I got away with 8-9 of them in mine.

As a fan of German engineered products there are times when I wonder what the hell they were thinking on a whole host of products. I almost think that they admired having tons of extra moving parts(a sign of overzealous craftsmen I'd imagine) added to items in a bid to make them operate smoother when they clearly could have had less parts and a robust item.

[35mmdelux]

Generals want lots of troops, governments want lots of bureaucracy, Leica engineers want lots of parts.

[Calzone]

Originally Posted by Damaso

I would highly recommend Tom's rapidwinder. I have one for each M6! Cheaper than a Leicavit and a lifetime warrenty, can't be beat...

+1 and then plus two.

I recently bought a TA Rapidwinder. Although I only own one M-body I want another Rapidwindered M-Body to shoot a 35 Cron paired with a 75 Lux.

DISCLAIMER: also own TA Rapidgrip and TA Softy.

Cal

[jbrianfoto]

I'd like to try one of Tom's Rapidwinders. I've only heard great things about them. My only concern now is the ergonomics of his winder vs the Leicavit. I am very used to exactly where the lever is, and how it feels, how long the travel of the lever is, ect. Has anyone used them side by side, are they really different? Because I already have this Vit (and I do love it, even tho I broke it) - I'm kinda stuck. FWIW - this is my second Leicavit, the first I had for 5 years with zero problems. I was being heavy handed with this one, now I know it's limits.

[jbrianfoto]

Fixed It !! All by myself.

I got ahold of the parts manual for the Leicavit - it shows an exploded view of it's motion-works. So today I opened it up again, and using the diagram I found out there is a clamp which holds onto one end of the belt (which is attached to the trigger). Had to remove 3 screws to get the trigger out - then remove two small screws which clamp the belt in place. Put everything back in place and screwed the cover back on. I was concerned aboout there being a syncronization issue, but in the end, there wasn't.

Mounted it back on my beater M4-2 for a smoke test. Worked perfect the first time. Then I put it back on my old M4 - same deal. works like a champ. After all my worrying, turns out this a pretty simple reapir. I am going to order a spare belt, spring and trigger (just to be safe), I think those three parts are the most likely to break in the future.

Thanks to everyone for lending their ear and opinions to this.

[Flat Twin]

Originally Posted by jbrianfoto

I am going to order a spare belt, spring and trigger (just to be safe), I think those three parts are the most likely to break in the future.

Interesting account of your Leicavit saga! I just wondered if your exploded diagram of the assembly comes with part numbers? If so would you let me know the codes for the spare parts that you mention as I would like to order them too after your experience!

Thanks, Simon

[jbrianfoto]

Originally Posted by Flat Twin

Interesting account of your Leicavit saga! I just wondered if your exploded diagram of the assembly comes with part numbers? If so would you let me know the codes for the spare parts that you mention as I would like to order them too after your experience!

Thanks, Simon

I just PM'd you the part numbers. Good luck.

BTW - there was no lubrication in the Leicavit. I thought I would at least find some on the guide rod - that's the place where all the friction really is. Does anyone know what a good choice for lube might be? Lithium white, watch oil?