Help with a developed roll of film from 1945

[o0dano0o]

Hi all,

I recently came across a roll of film from 1945 when helping clean out my grandmother's house after she passed away.

Here is what the film looks like:





I tried to unroll it a bit, but it was very brittle and started cracking. Also it looks like the inner part of the coil may have had some heat damage or something.

Any ideas on how to get this unrolled safely for scanning? I was wondering if a long soak in water and photoflo would help things?

Thanks,
Dan

[Peter S]

Hi Dan,

Sorry to hear about your grandmother, but what a nice find. I would not ask the question on an internet forum. It is a very good and knowledgeable bunch here, but I would ask a specialist, you only have one shot at this. Maybe ask the International Center of Photography, they must have similar "problems" to tackle with the Mexican suitcase find (http://museum.icp.org/mexican_suitcase/) ? They may not have all the time in the world, but they should be able to give you some good pointers.

[Mudman]

I would point out to them that the photos are from V J day... historical importance and all that depending on where they were taken. Might have them get back to you faster and perhaps help with the archiving.

Cheers,
Eric

[bsdunek]

Usually, if you soak the film in water for a half hour or so, you can unroll it without cracking. Then use Photo-Flo and hang to dry. Anyway, that's what I've done with old tightly rolled film, and it worked fine.

[oftheherd]

Originally Posted by Mudman

I would point out to them that the photos are from V J day... historical importance and all that depending on where they were taken. Might have them get back to you faster and perhaps help with the archiving.

Cheers,
Eric

Sorry for the loss of your grandmother.

As to the above quote: not only that, but the markings it bears. USCG may be US Coast Guard. Was you grandfather or an uncle int the CG? I can't make out the rest of the markings, and don't know if there is more on the paper as well.

I do agree you need to be sure of the probablility whatever method you try will work. Film as WWII progressed, may have changed. Silver was at a premium. Most film would have gone to the military for the war effort. I don't know if that available to the civilians was of a different quality or not. Also, I don't know if the person who took those photos was in the military or not (the Coast Guard was I believe under the Navy during the war). Those may be of folks at home or of a serviceman's experience wherever he was when the news came.

V-J day as you probably know was Victory over Japan, as opposed to V-E day, Victory in Europe. VJ day was the end of the war for sure, in Aug 45. I was too young to remember which, but I can recall as a lad of 3 going on 4, being in our dining room and noticing my father listening to the radio, and getting all excited. I asked him why and he told me it was the end of the war. I suppose that was VJ day.

People in the US were quite war weary, and worried about loved ones in the military. Military in europe were a mixed bag. Some were returned to the US after Germany's defeat, some stayed for occupation, and some were alerted to go to the Pacific. Invasion of Japan's home islands was expected to be quite bloody. Those in the pacific, having Iwo Jima and Okinawa under their belts, were not looking forward to the home islands. No matter who or where, the announcment of VJ day would have made a lot of people very happy.

You could have some very interesting photos there, whether of family, co-workers, or military. I look forward to you getting that where you can scan it and seeing them posted here.

[chris00nj]

Is it nitrate film? I thought I read soaking in water with Nitrate film could cause the emulsion to fall off.

I've been scanning tightly wound film from the 50s. A couple months ago, I was reading internet comments on "how to unroll" and I thought I read the above. However, mine is safety film, so I can't remember too clearly. I've soaked it in water and photoflo and have decent results..

[o0dano0o]

Thank you everyone for the kind words and suggestions thus far.

I should have posted a better photo of the label. It says:

1945
VJ Day
USCG Air Base
San Diego

My grandfather was in the coast guard, and the writing on it looks like how I remember his writing. I have no idea if he shot the film or not.

As far as it being nitrate film - how would I determine that?

Thanks again,
Dan

[MickH]

Click here for a link to some folk who deal with this kind of thing all the time.

Good luck

[Dwig]

Originally Posted by o0dano0o

...
As far as it being nitrate film - how would I determine that?...

There are several techniques, but most require special chemicals and skill.

1. The presence of edge print saying "SAFETY FILM" assures that it is NOT a nitrate cellulose base.

2. If the negatives have yellowed (a yellowish brown), which often happens with nitrate cellulose and occasionally with acetate (safety film), you can do a test with a small piece of film. Soak it in warm water until the emulsion softens and then rub the emulsion off. If the base is yellow/brown its nitrate cellulose. If the base is clear, the yellowing being in the emulsion, then it could be either, but most likely nitrate.

3. Do this test well away from any film and anything flamable: Cut a strip of film about 1" x 1/8" and hold it vertically from the bottom over an ashtray using a pair of tweezers or similar clamp. With a match, like the top of the strip as if it were a candle. Nitrate cellulose film will burn to the bottom quickly. Actetate based film will ignite but usually extinguish itself quickly. Note, that if you hold it sideways or light the bottom, even actetate film may burn completely.

Nitrate cellulose film is extremely flammable. Care should be taken to store it safely.

Kodak manufactured nitrate based 35mm still film in 1938. They did, though, continue to use nitrate base for 35mm professional movie film up until 1951, film which could be respooled for still use. While Kodak was the major manufacture of film for the US military during WWII, GAF (General Analine & Film, formerly Agfa-Ansco) has been nationalized in 1939 and functioned as the government's own film supplier during the war and for a number of years afterward. I don't know a source for information about their use of nitrate and acetate based stock.

[o0dano0o]

Originally Posted by MickH

Click here for a link to some folk who deal with this kind of thing all the time.

Thanks for the link, MickH. I will check them out.

Originally Posted by Dwig

The presence of edge print saying "SAFETY FILM" assures that it is NOT a nitrate cellulose base..

I will try to take a look later on today and see if I see anything saying "safety film".

Thanks again,
Dan

[BillBingham2]

Dan,

Reach out to Kodak and see what they say.

B2

[o0dano0o]

Turns out it is safety film.

[o0dano0o]

Originally Posted by BillBingham2

Dan,

Reach out to Kodak and see what they say.

B2

I sent an email to them via one of their customer support forms - I'll let you know what I find out.

Thanks for the suggestion.

[sepiareverb]

I would second the suggestion to contact ICP or a real conservator. Very easy to ruin these, and letting someone who knows exactly what they're doing would be well worth the price for me.

[raid]

This is cool. Please post some results when/if you get some.

[newspaperguy]

Back-in-the-day thought: In the late 40s (I was in HS) we used to make 'stink bombs' by rolling short strips of (usually) 127 negatives and lighting them. Flash!... and lots of stinky smoke.

[JeffL]

You could ask Ron aka Photo Engineer over at APUG.