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Old 02-21-2010   #26
Pickett Wilson
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My only point to the OP was that he provided a link to the upgrade price on the US site and seemed to be referencing the Full price on the page he linked to indicating the NOK price. Comparing apples to oranges.
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Old 02-21-2010   #27
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Lossen up

You have got to be kidding me! People on this forum buy the most expensive cameras and lenses in the world (excluding Hassy's) and your going to complain about a few dollars for a software program. If you do not want to pay the price use something else, there are many available including some supplied from your camera manufacture. Please forgive me for such an outburst, but I live on a fixed income, drool after an M8 or M9 and a few lenses, but realize that unless I hit the lottery it is an impossible dream. I am thankful for my Nikon D3OO and Capture NX.
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Old 02-21-2010   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pickett Wilson View Post
I tend to support companies whose software is closely connected to my livelihood. Which is why I don't complain about Adobe's pricing. I do find some company's insistence that they are losing millions of dollars to software theft a little hard to understand, though. People who steal software are unlikely to have bought it, anyway. So it's not really a loss. It is more an ethical issue (as is using Student priced software when you aren't a student) for those who steal it.

And I can't imagine a photographer who worries about his ownership of copyrights to his photos ever using stolen software.

Having said that, beyond the ethical aspect, it's just stupid to use stolen software commercially or professionally.
Sure, you have little reason to complain about Adobe pricing. Since you are an American. Adobe's European customers are subsidising American customers! Disregard me comparing the US upgrade price with full version here in Europe. It is still far more expensive to upgrade here in Europe. This, according to Adobe's official explanation; Europeans are better paid (?) and more reliable creditors (!).

I can assure you that not many CEO's (presidents, stockbrokers etc.) here in Europe earn as much as
their American equals.

It is us, the Europeans, that have all the reason to complain about the fact that we are treated differently by Adobe. Because we are more reliable customers!

Scandal!
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Old 02-21-2010   #29
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I believe there are things that are more expensive in the US than in Europe, as well. I guess life isn't always fair. But, you know, what are we going to do?
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Old 02-21-2010   #30
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....and excluding Quebec!

Never mind that Adobe are up-pricing their products here in Europe. After all, we Europeans are soft on Iran (yet another Middle East oil producer with 'weapons of mass destruction'..) and want to pull out of Afganistan. We must be punished for that.

But the quebecans, what have they done wrong....?
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Old 02-21-2010   #31
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Originally Posted by Pickett Wilson View Post
I believe there are things that are more expensive in the US than in Europe, as well. I guess life isn't always fair. But, you know, what are we going to do?
From what I read in the news it is a range of European exporters that sell their products in USA to a lower price in USA than in Europe. Leica is one good example! From what I read, Volkswagen, Audi and Porsche have all been selling their products in USA with a huge loss in the last few years or so. - I could go on.

Can you name any major product that is cheaper here in Europe...?
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Old 02-21-2010   #32
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But the quebecans, what have they done wrong....?
They speak french.
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Old 02-21-2010   #33
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They speak french.
.......que....?
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Old 02-21-2010   #34
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Beware. That link to Photobrush is to an executable file, not a web page.
Opps
You right. My bad.
Nevertheless is the Mediachance software company link (http://www.mediachance.com/pbrush/index.html).
Sincere apologies.
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Old 02-21-2010   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pickett Wilson View Post
But, you know, what are we going to do?
How about complaining?

I hate this "It is how it is, deal with it" attitude. That's exactly why they get away with it. If enough people started to complain that would create bad publicity which may lead them to lower their prices.
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Old 02-21-2010   #36
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Originally Posted by Chriscrawfordphoto View Post
Photoshop's alternatives are all badly hobbled by problems that simply make then unusable for professional work. GIMP doesn't support color management or 16 bit layers.
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The GEGL framework was implemented in Gimp 2.6. Support for color management is improving and 16 bit is on the way.
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Old 02-21-2010   #37
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How about complaining?

I hate this "It is how it is, deal with it" attitude. That's exactly why they get away with it. If enough people started to complain that would create bad publicity which may lead them to lower their prices.
You are absolutely right. Over here there have been several Facebook campaigns complaining about prices of a lot of products.
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Old 02-21-2010   #38
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Can you name any major product that is cheaper here in Europe...?
While I don't know the exact specifics, I was under the impression that people in the U.S. pay a lot higher price for many pharmaceuticals than in most of Europe.
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Old 02-21-2010   #39
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Most pharmaceuticals.
Maybe in the UK but definitely not here in Switzerland. Ok, ok, we're not in the EU but it's still Europe.
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Old 02-21-2010   #40
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Most pharmaceuticals.
This vary from country to country here in Europe. Like here in Scandinavia. Here it is our governments that negotiate the prices of the most important medicines, on behalf of the population. This is an effective way of reducing prices. But it does not work that way all the time and with all kinds of medicines.
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Old 02-21-2010   #41
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Most pharmaceuticals.
You can buy a pallet of painkillers for a price reduction of 5.000 Euros on a Porsche 911. We pay our health care costs over the tax bill. Most medicines are subsidized, one way or the other, over the tax bill. Then it is difficult to compare what 'the real' price is.
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Old 02-21-2010   #42
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It's valid to question extreme differences in software pricing from one country to the next. The shipping costs for the raw material -- data -- are essentially zero. If the CD/DVD is pressed locally, it's difficult to imagine a reason for the differences.

It's worth noting that the $299 Adobe targets only registered Photoshop Elements owners. It's not a Photoshop upgrade offer. And, that Adobe's price for PS in the U.S. is $699, while the price to Norway is, at today's rate, $1094 ex VAT; the Euro price seems to be a bit over $1300 in many locations; the UK price ex VAT is $826 while the price next door in Ireland is $913 ex VAT.

I'd be curious to understand the reasons behind those variations.
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Old 02-21-2010   #43
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The OPs numbers are wrong. Biggest mark-up is 66 percent, see here: http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/technol...ripoff_Britain, with an average of around 30%.

Software markup from the US to the outside is typical, and worse to Japan than to Europe. But, speaking from the other side of the fence (I'm not with Adobe ...), support is more expensive.

Why they do it ? Because they can. Don't like it, don't buy it.

Amazed how people are ready to spend multiple thousands of dollars on (partially used) hardware, Leicas, MF cameras, scanners and the like, and do not recognize that software needs to be engineered as well.

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Old 02-21-2010   #44
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I think its quite decent of Adobe to provide most of the functionality needed by the great majority of people in the Elements version at a reasonable price. I've been using it for a few years and I am only now starting to see if CS4 might be for me. I do understand that there are situations when elements is not enough, even when not used in a professional context, but then again, there are times when an M9 would be better to have then a P&S camera too... This is not to justify great price differences between the US and EU though.

Also, there are other alternatives as already pointed out. How does the freeware GIMP compare to CS4 and Elements? (I don't know the answer.)
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Old 02-21-2010   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavRaz View Post
You have got to be kidding me! People on this forum buy the most expensive cameras and lenses in the world (excluding Hassy's) and your going to complain about a few dollars for a software program. If you do not want to pay the price use something else, there are many available including some supplied from your camera manufacture. Please forgive me for such an outburst, but I live on a fixed income, drool after an M8 or M9 and a few lenses, but realize that unless I hit the lottery it is an impossible dream. I am thankful for my Nikon D3OO and Capture NX.
Thank you.

To Spoks: did you even read what Pickett and others have said? Your numbers are wrong anyways, so not only are you a whiner, you're a wrong whiner. I'm sure your precious Facebook groups will change the world.
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Old 02-21-2010   #46
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Amazed how people are ready to spend multiple thousands of dollars on (partially used) hardware, Leicas, MF cameras, scanners and the like, and do not recognize that software needs to be engineered as well.

Roland.
True, but once the code is finalized, there is no cost for assembly, testing, shipping, etc. You pull it down from a server and burn DVD's. You can't really compare the costs of distributing and selling software with those of hardware.

As I alluded to earlier, I know that Microsoft products available in the UK when I was there -- the mid-1990's -- were pressed in Ireland, yet sold for almost twice their U.S. price. If you asked the shop about it, they'd say it cost a lot to ship the product from the States.
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Old 02-21-2010   #47
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Originally Posted by wgerrard View Post
It's valid to question extreme differences in software pricing from one country to the next. The shipping costs for the raw material -- data -- are essentially zero. If the CD/DVD is pressed locally, it's difficult to imagine a reason for the differences.

It's worth noting that the $299 Adobe targets only registered Photoshop Elements owners. It's not a Photoshop upgrade offer. And, that Adobe's price for PS in the U.S. is $699, while the price to Norway is, at today's rate, $1094 ex VAT; the Euro price seems to be a bit over $1300 in many locations; the UK price ex VAT is $826 while the price next door in Ireland is $913 ex VAT.

I'd be curious to understand the reasons behind those variations.
Thanks for the thorough update.

There is no reason there should be any major unexplainable price differences anymore! (Sure, currency variations happen).

I follow prices of Canon cameras, lenses etc. Canon prices their products at about the same level all over the world. In those few instances I have registered a major difference the prices are rather lower in countries with a high VAT (Europe!). The few instances I check Nikon prices it seems to follow the same patern.

Adobe should do the same: Try to have the same price of their products all over the world. The CS4 should cost the same all over the world! With particularly 'consumer products', directed towards ordinary consumers that are obliged to pay a hefty sales tax (VAT), they should try to keep a lower price in these markets to see to that the VAT itself gets as low as possible.
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Old 02-21-2010   #48
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How does the freeware GIMP compare to CS4 and Elements? (I don't know the answer.)
Elements is a very good product at a very good price. It lacks some of the capabilities of full PS, but workarounds are often available on the web and elsewhere.

GIMP is capable, with many, but not all, of the capabilities of PS. The interface seems to annoy many people, especially experienced PS users.

Once you leave behind the world of tweaking photos, however, PS seems to be just about the only game in town for pros.
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Old 02-21-2010   #49
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Thanks for the thorough update.

There is no reason there should be any major unexplainable price differences anymore! (Sure, currency variations happen)...Adobe should... Try to have the same price of their products all over the world. The CS4 should cost the same all over the world! With particularly 'consumer products', directed towards ordinary consumers that are obliged to pay a hefty sales tax (VAT), they should try to keep a lower price in these markets to see to that the VAT itself gets as low as possible.
Olsen, I would like to understand the reason behind the price differences, but I'm not ready to assume it's only simple greed. Other potential factors do exist. But, most of the conventional reasons behind high prices for imports, other than currency rates, do seem to not to apply to software.
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Old 02-21-2010   #50
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Olsen, I would like to understand the reason behind the price differences, but I'm not ready to assume it's only simple greed. Other potential factors do exist. But, most of the conventional reasons behind high prices for imports, other than currency rates, do seem to not to apply to software.
When Canon can keep equal prices internationally on their 5D II than Adobe should be in no less possition to do the same. I don't want 'an explanation'. I want lower prices! There is no reason why we should pay 30% more for such a product. Add 25% VAT on the 1,100 $ net price of a CS4 here in Norway and it costs ordinary consumers 1.375 $. I am sure most Americans would think twice about paying that much.
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