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Adobe; that does it!
Old 02-21-2010   #1
Spoks
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Adobe; that does it!

We Europeans are furious at Adobe. The company has just run a C4 campaign directed only at American and Canadian customers selling a SC4 for only $ 299,00.

See link: https://store4.adobe.com/cfusion/sto...PhotoshopOffer

While we Europeans must pay $ 1,100 - 1,200 (ex VAT):

https://store5.adobe.com/cfusion/sto...ionMethod=FULL

The official explanation is that 'Europeans earn more and are more willing to pay'. - Particularly the last, is an argument for that Europeans should pay less than Americans.

Adobe seems to have missed the force of Internet and how customers on both sides of the Atlantic and elsewhere, plan their purchases by searching the Net for bargains. Not the least what items costs in other countries. Adobe practises an unfair price practice that will motivate us Europeans to look at alternatives. It also reminds us that the Adobe CS4 is all too expensive.
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Old 02-21-2010   #2
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Uh, $299 is the upgrade price (what you linked to), not the regular full version price. Your link shows you paying about $320 for the upgrade.
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Old 02-21-2010   #3
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I had a similar discussion with Andrew Rodney when LR2 was released, basically he told me to get lost and go and use somebody else’s product.

Adobe has some old agreement with marketing and distribution etc... and that does effect there pricing but they seem to be doing nothing to normalize there prices globally and actually encourage people to use legal software.
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Old 02-21-2010   #4
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@spoks
Ive just got offered CS4 for the half price by adobe. That means 450,- (ex VAT) and not 900,- as regular. Well, Ill take the advantage. Im located in Germany

George
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Old 02-21-2010   #5
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Adobe CS4 is regarded as 'very expensive' here in Norway and just 'everybody' are looking for bargains. Most likely, the Adobe PS products, are the most illegally copied software around. An upgrade from CS to CS4 costs NOK 2.350 ex VAT ($ 400). Which means that ordinary consumers must pay NOK 2.938 VAT ($ 500,00) included here in Norway. Thus; the net price ex VAT is important to us. Canon and Nikon - most often, sells their products slightly cheaper in countries with a high VAT, while charging a higher price in USA and tax free havens like Singapore, Hong Kong etc.

Adobe should do the same.
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Old 02-21-2010   #6
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I'm sure CS5 will come out soon and when that happens you'll probably be able to get CS4 for less.
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Old 02-21-2010   #7
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The full version of Adobe's products are expensive. No getting around it. But I have to say having used Photoshop, Illustrator, Pagemaker, now Indesign and Dreamweaver since their beginnings, of all the software I've owned, they have given me the most value for the money. But, I've used them professionally all these years, so it's an equation that makes sense. Like $7,000 cameras, Adobe's products are not for everyone, but everyone wants them.
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Old 02-21-2010   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gyuribacsi View Post
@spoks
Ive just got offered CS4 for the half price by adobe. That means 450,- (ex VAT) and not 900,- as regular. Well, Ill take the advantage. Im located in Germany

George
Where was this? I am going to Kiel next weekend. I know there is a large photo store there.
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Old 02-21-2010   #9
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By the way, do you have anyone in your family that is still in school? I can get Photoshop CS4 Extended as a student edition for €170.-.
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Old 02-21-2010   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pickett Wilson View Post
The full version of Adobe's products are expensive. No getting around it. But I have to say having used Photoshop, Illustrator, Pagemaker, now Indesign and Dreamweaver since their beginnings, of all the software I've owned, they have given me the most value for the money. But, I've used them professionally all these years, so it's an equation that makes sense. Like $7,000 cameras, Adobe's products are not for everyone, but everyone wants them.
I agree. I use Photoshop, InDesign, and Dreamweaver almost daily and I use Illustrator less often. There's nothing that even comes close to any of them.

The alternatives are non-existent for Illustrator. Adobe bought Macromedia and killed the only good alternative to Illustrator (Freehand).

GoLive was the only real pro web design software to compete with Dreamweaver, and it wasn't as good. It was an Adobe product and they killed it in favor of DW when they bought Macromedia.

QuarkXpress is overpriced and buggy, and the only alternative to Adobe's InDesign, which is the best layout software I've ever used.

Photoshop's alternatives are all badly hobbled by problems that simply make then unusable for professional work. GIMP doesn't support color management or 16 bit layers. PS Elements doesn't have curves or full 16 bit suport. Paint Shop Pro didn't have 16 bit support last time I looked at it and isnt available for Mac.

They can charge what they do because, simply put, they're the only game in town. Still, the whole CS4 suite is cheaper than a good digital SLR. This to me is like people here with thousands of dollars in Leicas and Hasselblads and such who want a $159 scanner for film because they're too tightfisted to buy a good film scanner. The argument that you (Jim) and I are pros who can justify it while the others are amateurs doesn't hold up with amateurs here who have 3 MP bodies and 5 new Leica ASPH lenses. That stuff's expensive and beyond what an amateur needs (and costs more than most pros can afford!), but they have it! LOL
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Old 02-21-2010   #11
martin s
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Quote:
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By the way, do you have anyone in your family that is still in school? I can get Photoshop CS4 Extended as a student edition for 170.-.
How is this any different than pirating the product?

martin
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Old 02-21-2010   #12
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How is this any different than pirating the product?

martin
It is pirating because it violates the user agreement. To buy student editions, the students have to give their name, social security number (in the USA) and address. Adobe can track down the student if they catch someone not a student or former student using it. Its not worth getting your relatives sued.
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Old 02-21-2010   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martin s View Post
How is this any different than pirating the product?

martin
I'm not talking about asking your third cousin who's in middle school to buy a version of photoshop for you but I think if it's someone who lives in the same household it's fair game.
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Old 02-21-2010   #14
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I'm not talking about asking your third cousin who's in middle school to buy a version of photoshop for you but I think if it's someone who lives in the same household it's fair game.
No, its not. The agreement they make the student sign in blood when he/she buys it clearly says that it is for the student's use only. I know because I bought Lightroom this way for myself; I am a graduate student. Considering all the documentation and personal info I had to give adobe, plus the blood and semen samples, just to buy this I would not take the risk of being sued and having my life ruined to help a family member. Even if I had a family worth helping.
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Old 02-21-2010   #15
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Quote:
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I'm not talking about asking your third cousin who's in middle school to buy a version of photoshop for you but I think if it's someone who lives in the same household it's fair game.
It is absolutely not, take a second and think about it. It's intended to be used by a student, which is the reason why the charge you less for it. Living in the same building with a student is not what this offer is about.

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Old 02-21-2010   #16
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It is absolutely not, take a second and think about it. It's intended to be used by a student, which is the reason why the charge you less for it. Living in the same building with a student is not what this offer is about.

martin
I would assume that using the same computer is enough to justify using the same program.

But whatever, maybe it's not. I'm a graduate student myself so I always look at the student prices.
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Old 02-21-2010   #17
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6 months ago, as an Adobe PSE registered user I was offered the full version of CS4 for $299. I jumped on the offer and now am using CS4 exclusively. This was an offer to registered customers though (in the US only? I don't know.) and not the cost of the product off the shelf.
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Old 02-21-2010   #18
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No, its not. The agreement they make the student sign in blood when he/she buys it clearly says that it is for the student's use only. I know because I bought Lightroom this way for myself; I am a graduate student. Considering all the documentation and personal info I had to give adobe, plus the blood and semen samples, just to buy this I would not take the risk of being sued and having my life ruined to help a family member. Even if I had a family worth helping.

Oh, and when my wife was a graduate student I purchased the full Adobe CS1 suite, all the programs, everything, for $150. Chris is right, they asked for lots of info, but it ran for me just as well as it ran for her.
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Old 02-21-2010   #19
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I tend to support companies whose software is closely connected to my livelihood. Which is why I don't complain about Adobe's pricing. I do find some company's insistence that they are losing millions of dollars to software theft a little hard to understand, though. People who steal software are unlikely to have bought it, anyway. So it's not really a loss. It is more an ethical issue (as is using Student priced software when you aren't a student) for those who steal it.

And I can't imagine a photographer who worries about his ownership of copyrights to his photos ever using stolen software.

Having said that, beyond the ethical aspect, it's just stupid to use stolen software commercially or professionally.
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Old 02-21-2010   #20
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Ok if you are furious just buy Photobrush it cost 45 USD and does all you may need.
I don't use CS4 (or any CS for that matter) so no worry about CS4 prices.
BTW american companies (or Japanese) finance their operations in Europe with a markup, since this region does not have that much cameras or image software companies (Leica or DxO are the exceptions to my little knowledge, and who's fault is it?!) we end up paying more. The value of the Euro against the dollar does not help either since they look us as rich people since we always paid more (plus 20% VAT).
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Old 02-21-2010   #21
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I can't really get upset about Adobe. If they get away with charging more in Europe, good for them. No one is forcing anyone to buy it. If you need it to make your living, I would think that the cost of Photoshop is small enough to be considered irrelevant.

I can not for the life of me understand why so many amateurs get into their head that they "need" Photoshop, 16bit or not. I guess, after spending cold hard cash on an IPS display, 16bit printer, hardware calibration and a top spec'd computer to run it all - the cost of the software is just too much to bear?
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Old 02-21-2010   #22
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If I am correct the op is not happy due to the fact that it is much more expensive in Europe than in the US..... nothing wrong with that.

And there is no need for the software to be more expensive in Europe.
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Old 02-21-2010   #23
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Quote:
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Ok if you are furious just buy Photobrush it cost 45 USD and does all you may need.
.
Beware. That link to Photobrush is to an executable file, not a web page.
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Old 02-21-2010   #24
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I can't really get upset about Adobe. If they get away with charging more in Europe, good for them.
Companies can 'get away' with all sorts of stuff but that doesn't mean that one can't be upset about it. Especially when they are selling through the web and there is no apparent reason why they should have to charge Europeans more than US residents.
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Old 02-21-2010   #25
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I bought CS4 in a similar offer last year. As a registered PSE user, Adobe emailed me. Whether or not I get $300 worth of better use of PS compared with PSE is debatable. PS is indeed a very capable program. But, it it is also complex with a steep learning curve. That makes me ask how many amateurs are using the program effectively.

The offer is also void in Quebec. I recall similar offers that were also void in Quebec. Many special offers here in the States are not valid in Hawaii and Alaska. I doubt shipping costs are the issue.

My experience living in the UK is about two decades old. But, I did buy a fair amount of U.S. software on the local market. Prices were consistently much higher than in the U.S., typically a straight dollar-to-pounds conversion. Vendors offered all kinds of excuses, even though in many cases the manufacturing facilities were in the UK. (As I recall, music CD wholesalers got in some trouble during that time when they were caught jacking up the prices of their products.)

Re: student use -- If they wanted to, Adobe could capture when every instance of PS is launched. By sifting through that data, they could get a decent idea if a student package is being used on another machine.

Re: pirated software -- I agree with Pickett that it's difficult to build up much angst about chasing down individual pirates who wouldn't have bought the software anyway. Businesses do pirate, though, and that seems a legitimate target.
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