Using an LCD monitor with Photoshop

[J J Kapsberger]

And other post-processing software. How do you manage?

I have a Samsung SyncMaster 226BW monitor. Things generally look brilliant on it; however, apparent gamma changes significantly as I change viewing angle. Even slouching a bit in my chair causes shadow detail to be lost; sitting up (or tilting the monitor downward) causes detail to emerge.

Is the image quality of any LCD monitors so dependent on viewing angle? Which angle is correct? (I know you can't answer that.)

I can see detail in shadow areas in images I've developed in PS after having calibrated the monitor with a Huey Pro (and using the Adobe RGB 1998 colour space). However, in a professional-quality print, the detail is lost.

Do you have any tips on calibrating an LCD monitor so that images developed in the Adobe RGB 1998 space are wysiwsyg?

(If you look at my Flickr images you might see that they're a bit dark. Yet on my monitor, they're bright with details in the shadows. My monitor seems to be in a very small minority.)

[J J Kapsberger]

What's maddening is that even if my system is set up totally correctly, proofing goes totally out of whack if my viewing angle isn't correct.

[kbg32]

I use a Dell Ultra Sharp monitor that is calibrated. My images don't change with the viewing angle. There are very few LCD monitors these days that are not suitable for retouching and yours unfortunately might be one due to the changes when viewing. If you calibrate your monitor, if you want wysiwyg, you must calibrate the output sources as well - printer. It is very time consuming. I might suggest getting a different monitor. Calibrating the one you have will never produce the results you want. There is a ton of stuff on the net for you to read.

My imagery comes out a bit darker on Flickr as well. Shadows on some images are extremely dark. My images on Pbase are excactly how I intend them to look. Go figure.

[tightsqueez]

There was a time when I had the same issues, but since shelling out a few bucks for the right stuff - every print comes out exactly the way it does on the monitor. Currently I am using a Mac and use an Apple Cinema Display. Color calibration is done with the Spyder3Elite calibrator and the Adobe RGB 1998 color space is used. Various monitors will have issues with the angle problem that you discuss but for the most part it should be "square" when viewing.

When printing I directly open PS adjusted images with ColorBurst software (professional version that comes with the Epson 3800). The software is a bit expensive but it has taken all headaches out of the process. Every print is perfect, something I cannot say with printing directly from PS.

With regards to your Flickr images coming out dark - pretty normal with Flickr and RGB images. I have to lighten mine up or switch the profile to sRGB which helps.

When it comes to color space and printing with digital, there are many ways to make things work. For me, the above setup has given me addded time to spend on more important things.

[J J Kapsberger]

Thanks, kbg32 and tightsqueez. A quick tour of LCD resource sights tels me that 1) the Samsung Syncmaster is not well suited to Adobe RGB proofing and 2) the Dell Ultrasharp monitor is excellent.

[NDAv]

You need a LCD monitor that has MVA, PVA or IPS panel, instead of a TN panel. TN panels are used on almost every consumer LCD monitor out there, and not only do they have poor view angles, as you well know, they also can display only a very limited range of colours. There are approximately 16.7 million colours in the sRGB colour space (aka 8-bit colour), and TN panel LCDs can display only 261,000 of them (aka 6-bit colour). In comparison, my IPS panel monitor can display the full 16.7 million colours in sRGB, just like the old CRT monitors did.

[Roger Hicks]

Originally Posted by NDAv

You need a LCD monitor that has MVA, PVA or IPS panel, instead of a TN panel. TN panels are used on almost every consumer LCD monitor out there, and not only do they have poor view angles, as you well know, they also can display only a very limited range of colours. There are approximately 16.7 million colours in the sRGB colour space (aka 8-bit colour), and TN panel LCDs can display only 261,000 of them (aka 6-bit colour). In comparison, my IPS panel monitor can display the full 16.7 million colours in sRGB, just like the old CRT monitors did.

I'd be very grateful if you'd enlarge upon what the initials stand for, and which LCD monitors (a) have MVA, PVA or IPS and (b) you'd recommend. Also, if you'd be kind enough and can spare the time, some idea of prices. I'm sure I'd not be alone in my gratitude. I know a lot about silver halide (40+ years practice) but am sometimes intimidated by digital.

Cheers,

R.

[Ranchu]

This might help, Roger.

http://www.lcdresource.com/lcdtech/

Also, the article I linked here has good general information.

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/foru...ad.php?t=85626

I still use a CRT...

[sevo]

Originally Posted by Roger Hicks

I'd be very grateful if you'd enlarge upon what the initials stand for, and which LCD monitors (a) have MVA, PVA or IPS and (b) you'd recommend.

TN is "twisted nematic" - cheap to produce and fast, which make it the most popular type touted towards consumers.

IPS is "in plane switching", technically superior, but expensive - required for pro cine and video editing, luxury otherwise.

MVA/PVA are vertically aligned TN derived technologies - slower than TN and IPS, but wide-angled like the latter, and usually high colour depth. These are absolutely good enough for photo editing, not too expensive, but sometimes hard to find, as many stores restrict their nominal "high end" to the more expensive among home video viewing and gamer-oriented fast TN monitors, while pro graphics shops may consider xVA below their dignity and will often want to push a four times as expensive IPS at you.

Brand names are no type indicator - most brands have monitors of any type (the original poster bought a TN Samsung Syncmaster, a brand which is better known for PVA screens). Watch out if they tout extreme cine contrast ratios and fast image switching or the publicity alludes to game-playing and TV viewing, as these are generally indications of backlight-modulating TN - something where you don't even need to read on or get hold of detail specs.

[Roger Hicks]

Originally Posted by Ranchu

This might help, Roger.

http://www.lcdresource.com/lcdtech/

Also, the article I linked here has good general information.

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/foru...ad.php?t=85626

I still use a CRT...

Thanks very much indeed.

I may stick with CRT too...

Cheers,

R.

[robert blu]

I regulary calibrate my i-mac with a spider device
and this helps a lot. Of course I usually seat just in front of it. When inkjet printing I find important is the get used to evaluate what you see on the monitor and the picture you get, specially with B&W. If I have to print a serie of 12/15 images and I do it in a short time (a couple of days) I get consistent prints, with desired contrast and tones. But when (it happens sometimes) I print a couple of pictures one day, than wait for a few days to print another couple, than wait etc etc it is more difficult ot get similar tones etc. For what I remeber it was the same in the wet darkroom.
robert

[NDAv]

I wanted to stick to CRT as well, but my CRT died, so I was forced to buy a LCD monitor, and as a photography enthusiast, it was a very long search.

IPS is generally the best you can buy. The cheapest IPS panel LCD is the Dell 2209WA at approximately $330 USD. It is an excellent monitor not only for photo editing but also gaming as well. I know because this a monitor I ended up getting.

Note that only the exact model number 2209WA has the IPS panel. The cheaper model Dell 2209W is a TN panel monitor. So you can see the kind of involved search you might have to go through. When searching for PVA, MVA, or IPS, you have to look carefully at the exact model number. Looking at the brand is not enough. There are many different models within the Samsung Syncmaster brand, for example.

The easiest way to tell which monitor has a TN panel, and which has IPS, PVA, or MVA panel is to simply look at the specs. TN panel monitors will usually be spec'd at 16.2 million colours and 160/170 degree view angles usually. In contrast, IPS/PVA/MVA monitors will be spec'd (honestly) at 16.7 million colours and 178 degree viewing angles. Be careful though, because there are a lot of dishonest specs for the TN panels.

[Roger Hicks]

Originally Posted by robert blu

I regulary calibrate my i-mac with a spider device
and this helps a lot. Of course I usually seat just in front of it. When inkjet printing I find important is the get used to evaluate what you see on the monitor and the picture you get, specially with B&W. If I have to print a serie of 12/15 images and I do it in a short time (a couple of days) I get consistent prints, with desired contrast and tones. But when (it happens sometimes) I print a couple of pictures one day, than wait for a few days to print another couple, than wait etc etc it is more difficult ot get similar tones etc. For what I remeber it was the same in the wet darkroom.
robert

Dear Robert,

I completely agree. Calibration and drift are b*stards, even in colour, and B+W is worse (which is why we still wet print). As well as calibrating the monitor to the print you need a standard viewing light (I use a DW Viewtower) and then, when I view the print under different lights, I can see the differences. I wonder increasingly how much calibration really matters.

Cheers,

R.

[Roger Hicks]

Originally Posted by sevo

TN is "twisted nematic" - cheap to produce and fast, which make it the most popular type touted towards consumers.

IPS is "in plane switching", technically superior, but expensive - required for pro cine and video editing, luxury otherwise.

MVA/PVA are vertically aligned TN derived technologies - slower than TN and IPS, but wide-angled like the latter, and usually high colour depth. These are absolutely good enough for photo editing, not too expensive, but sometimes hard to find, as many stores restrict their nominal "high end" to the more expensive among home video viewing and gamer-oriented fast TN monitors, while pro graphics shops may consider xVA below their dignity and will often want to push a four times as expensive IPS at you.

Brand names are no type indicator - most brands have monitors of any type (the original poster bought a TN Samsung Syncmaster, a brand which is better known for PVA screens). Watch out if they tout extreme cine contrast ratios and fast image switching or the publicity alludes to game-playing and TV viewing, as these are generally indications of backlight-modulating TN - something where you don't even need to read on or get hold of detail specs.

Thanks also for your explanations (and commercial cynicism, which is at least as valuable).

Cheers,

R.