Rodinal, Arista Premium 400 (Tri-X 400) and a Snowy Day

[DRabbit]

Hey All,

So I was able to finish up the roll of film and develop this afternoon. We're snowed in, so no better day to do it and try using some of your tips

Interestingly, the Rodinal proved to be very contrasy (which I like), but also very grainy (which some of you warned me about). I also got some strange "halos" around dark objects in some photos (and it wasn't a photoshop thing!)... Some of the photos I like better than others. Also, I'm not sure if I did everything right since it was my first attempt with Rodinal.

I did a stand developing. My water may have been a tad to warm. I used 1:100, agitated (gently) first minute and let stand for 19 minutes. Admittedly though, I was very OCD about the standing... I felt like it needed a minor and very gentle agitation 1/2 way through just because I was afraid of just letting it sit there! LOL

Anyway, here's my favorites (I love the snow shots!):
















Let me know what you think!

I like the contrast better than results with Diafine... however, not sure about the grain. Of course, part of why I like shooting with film is that gritty grainy look, so...

Thanks all!

[.ken]

I love the images!

[Jaans]

I especially like numbers 1,3 and 5. That grain is great with lovely midtones.

[Turtle]

stand development is the cause of the halos due to adjacency affects. This is why I dont stand develop, particularly with small formats. With LF its much better IMO.

I think the grain works in a number of these images!

[Mablo]

Nice photos. I think the added contrast results from your halfway agitation. You sort of developed the film twice.

[DRabbit]

Originally Posted by Turtle

stand development is the cause of the halos due to adjacency affects. This is why I dont stand develop, particularly with small formats. With LF its much better IMO.
I think the grain works in a number of these images!

Thanks for the info about the halos... So 1:50 would be better with gentle agitation?

Originally Posted by Mablo

Nice photos. I think the added contrast results from your halfway agitation. You sort of developed the film twice.

Interesting... I only did a swirly gentle agitation for like 15 seconds...


Also, Thanks Ken and Jaans!

[Ducky]

OCD and film processing is a bad combination.
15 seconds is a long time for a mid-stand agitation, best just let it be.
Over all I like the images and believe you are on the right track for what you want. I really like the first image.

[mfogiel]

The birds shot is great. The grain and contrast are excessive, so my tip would be to cut the initial agitation down to 30 secs and just stand develop thereafter, or agitate wih 2 slow inversions every 5 minutes for a total of 15 min 30sec.

[Turtle]

Originally Posted by DRabbit

Thanks for the info about the halos... So 1:50 would be better with gentle agitation?




Interesting... I only did a swirly gentle agitation for like 15 seconds...


Also, Thanks Ken and Jaans!

I am not a rodinal expert and mostly use it mixed with Xtol. However, I use 1:60 rodinal alone (just arrived at this after experimentation and ease of maths) and find that one inversion every minute is ample. I dont get halos or streaking so it works. I do find Rodinal gives hot highlights (as you do) if agitated too much of developed too long (this helps in flat light and hinders in high contrast lighting). I have found that with my times I get a workable all round look that is still hotter in the highlights than, say, Xtol1+2; however, I will not do stand dev to control highlights as I do not like the issues that come with it. I might experiment with 1+100 at some point, but in all honestly find that in most cases (Foma 100 being the exception) I prefer the results of Xtol mixed with rodinal as I get more speed than rodinal and a bit more bite than Xtol without too much grain. Its a great compromise as well as allowing for both devs alone. Xtol and Rodinal works nicely with just about everything (Neopan 400, D100, TriX, Fp4+)

I also think the birds shot is super and printed well that would look great with a full tonal range. I love grain, for the right image. Maybe a slight flash and burning to lower right. Not too long ago I shot some Foma 200 in a blizzard and developed in mixed Xtol and rodinal. I had slightly overexposed but the result was a lovely grainy look that looks great at 20x16. Great atmosphere. if you like the look fo TriX but want smaller grain, try Foma 100 in rodinal. TriX and Foma 100 are a good tonal match in that developer IMO.

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

Originally Posted by mfogiel

The birds shot is great. The grain and contrast are excessive, so my tip would be to cut the initial agitation down to 30 secs and just stand develop thereafter, or agitate wih 2 slow inversions every 5 minutes for a total of 15 min 30sec.

I agree, those are grainier than Tmax 3200 and with worse tonality (Tmax 3200 is a rather contrasty film). I've developed Arista Premium 400/Tri-X in Rodinal 1+50 with very nice, not too grainy results and without the bother of stand developing, which I think is way overhyped.


Arista Premium 400 in Rodinal 1+50

By comparison, below is a shot on Tmax 3200 at EI-1600...much finer grained than your Tri-X/Arista shots.



I developed Arista Premium/Tri-X 400 in Rodinal 1+50, 11 minutes, 68 degrees. Agitate first 30 sec, then Two vigorous inversions (hitting the tank on my palm after each inversion to dislodge air bubbles) every 30 seconds. I think it looks better than anything I've seen with stand developing so far.

[morback]

Looks great to me, love the grain but contrast is a little high to me sometimes.

I do stand as well, but besides initial slow agitation (1mn) I don't touch it. Comes out perfect for my taste.

If you want less grain, don't agitate it! Agitation with Rodinal defines the grain. I find that untouched you get the "natural" grain. If you agitate more/harsher you get more/harsher grain.

I got halos too, and I love them

[venchka]

Great work. Gritty. Love it.

RFF member Trius (Earl) has a knack for using Rodinal 1:100, gentle agitation every 3-5 minutes for about 20 minutes. Search for his posts in the Rodinal 1:100 thread. Then search for P. Lynn Miller and Rodinal and stand in the same thread. He uses a few drops of Rodinal (3-4 ml) per roll of film. Lets the tank sit for 1-2 hours. Experiment.

As for contrast, that's easily adjusted during scanning and post processing. It's also a very personal thing. Some like long soft tonal scale. Others don't. It's all good.

[Trius]

Amy: These are nicely composed and I think the processing is not bad at all. My guesses as to the questions you raised:

1. Yes, contrast is on the high side. At first I didn't think the mid-cycle agitation was a factor, but 15 seconds is kind of long, and the initial agitation can be reduced by half; 30 seconds is what I do.

2. Times are individual, according to one's water composition. Temperature is a factor, of course. So you need to calibrate. First, make sure your thermometer is correct. I checked my glass thermometer against a pro-grade ohm meter with temperature probe, and they matched. That's not "official" calibration, but it was good enough for my purposes; I'm pretty comfortable that 20C is 20C on my processing thermometer.

Once you get your temperature nailed, then play with times. In this case, I suspect the high temp is likely the culprit with contrast. But if that's not the case, then I would wonder about metering; perhaps you over-exposed a bit.

3. The appearance of grain is emphasized in large areas of even tone, e.g. sky in some of these shots. In addition, snow flakes add to the impression of grain, right?!

As for the halos, I'd never thought about stand development producing that effect, so maybe that's the case. In any event, I kind of like them.

As for Wayne's remark about me using Rodinal 1:100 with agitation every 3 minutes, that is true ... well, it used to be my standard process. Now I use it when I want a bit more contrast without sacrificing too much grain. It's like doing a half-zone expansion (I haven't measured it, I'm just guessing at the amount of expansion it gives,) while staying with the 1:100 dilution. If I need more expansion, e.g. N+1, I use 1:50.

I also like the XTol + Rodinal combination. I haven't used it for awhile, but will probably get back to it in the next batch or two of film. I'm especially interested to see what that combination does for FP4+

Hope this helps.

[Tom A]

I like the birdshot and also the last one. The combination of the grain and the snow adds a feel to how cold it looks to be!
Rodinal is a developer that you have to "train" with. It is highly sensitive to agitation and in 1:100 dilution it can go a bit "flat" with stand development (not at all bad for some shots).
Shoot a bunch of films and test your way to what you want. Kind off fun and it forces you to take pictures. Also play a bit with the iso settings, try +/- bracketting - one stop over and one stop under exposure and see what comes out.
It is a cheap developer (particularly in 1:100 dilution) and film is still not that expensive. With 400 iso and faster, I dont mind grain.
You can also try really long stand development with 1:100, 30 min and 60 min - BUT dont touch that developing tank after the initial shake and bang.

[DRabbit]

Thanks so much for all the info and tips everyone... You are all such a great resource for film developing!

I think next time around I'll try the 1:50 (with agitation) just to see the difference. I've been happy with using Diafine, but the film definitely comes out flatter and the Rodinal was even easier!

[Trius]

Amy: 1:50 will give more contrast ... just so you know.

[mark-b]

Amy, It's grainier than the results I get, and I agitate for about 20 seconds every 15 minutes with Rodinal at 1:100. I'm sure it's the temperature.

[Jaans]

I've come to my own conclusion that 1:50 dilution is applicable for most conditions. I also went down the 1:100 stand development road but suffered air bubbles, no doubt due to my own poor form.

Hence, I just don't think that extra complication of potential problems with stand and longer time is necessary. So, I have settled on 1:50 for the time being before I no doubt get itchy feet again.

My times for TRI-X 1:50 are:

EI:200 9 1/2 minutes-10minutes at 20C.

EI:400 11 1/2 minutes - 12 minutes at 20C

Agitate for first 20 seconds then 1 agitation for 5 seconds at the start of each minute. Then I give the tank a nice thump for the air bubbles.

I found that I get more consistant results with 1:50 than 1:100, but that is just me. Its also a much faster process.

For cloudy conditions or when I want to give the film some oomph when it is over cast I use 1:25 for 7 1/2 minutes - 9 minutes. Same agitation scheme.

Also, I found that how modern the lens is or whether it is multi-coated has a significant bearing on the times. I was using Biogon 35mm 2.0 and found that I had to decrease the times compared to the older summicron as the contrast became rapidly strong.

Cheers.

[johannielscom]

I still stuck to the initial Rodinal 1:100 thread recipe: Rodinal 1:100, approx 24 degrees celcius. twenty inversions in the first minute, then untouched for 59 minutes.

No halos, not too much grain. Might be the Tri-x/Arista that causes that, I never shot any.



Full frame, straight off the scanner. Shot on Fomapan 200, London, October 2009