Petition Leitz for Firmware Upgrade to M8/M8.2

[kbg32]

I would like to start a petition here on RFF for Leitz to do a firmware upgrade to the M8/M8.2. The firmware upgrade would include a manual input of the lens attached for proper reduction of cyan vignetting due to UV/IR issues. For the petition to work properly, only valid registered M8/M8.8 users need to sign it using their email address that was used to register their cameras, and their cameras serial numbers.

I want to make sure that this would be ok with Stephen and the RFF moderators, and if there was someway to password protect this from hackers getting hold of this information for any reason.

All suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

[rover]

To be safest I would suggest you ask those interested to email their agreement to you directly and you keep a copy of the emails to validate the petition. I would not like to see a list of email addresses in a public thread.

[kbg32]

Thanks Rover. Any other suggestions please?? Any interest?

[thinkfloyd]

You can also build a googledocs spreadsheet, then let members email you to gain access. They can input their information there, with only the members having access. This can also save you some time since those interested will be inputting the information themselves (email, serial nos., etc). Or, even simpler, you can create a new email account, and have everyone interested email you there. This will save all messages and information, without extraneous mail, spam, etc, for easy browsing/searching. Let the members put in the title their serial number since their names will appear automatically. This saves you time from opening each and every email...

[robklurfield]

Rather than a petition, why not create a form e-mail. Make the form available in a thread and let individuals send it directly to Leica on their own. Kind of like a letter-writing campaign to one's member of Congress. The volume of e-mails will be likelier to get attention than a single document containing a bunch of names. Also, this will circumvent any privacy concerns.

[chief]

Semms form of petition is OK for such action.
AFAIK, based on petition issued same way at DYXUM forum the SSM upgrade of film camera Dynax/Maxxum 9 was resumed by official service.

[Richard Marks]

I am sure that Leica do not consider it in their interets to upgrade the M8. If it was i am sure they would have done so. However arguably lack of M8 support may indirectly affect goodwill M9 purchases as the same might happen to them following M9.2 or m10 upgrades. Leica ought to care about this.

I suspect suggesting an upgrade for a fee might have more impact than a straight petition. Presumably m8 users would be prepared to pay something for this.

Richard

[Paddy C]

Originally Posted by Richard Marks

I am sure that Leica do not consider it in their interets to upgrade the M8. If it was i am sure they would have done so. However arguably lack of M8 support may indirectly affect goodwill M9 purchases as the same might happen to them following M9.2 or m10 upgrades. Leica ought to care about this.

I suspect suggesting an upgrade for a fee might have more impact than a straight petition. Presumably m8 users would be prepared to pay something for this.

Richard

I think it should be very much in Leica's best interest to provide this update. This is the nature of the digital age and Leica ought to demonstrate that they are in tune with it and, at the same time, reward those customers who purchased the M8. It must be a very simple update that would generate nothing but goodwill for Leica.

Why this feature wasn't there in the beginning is beyond explanation in my opinion.

[Richard Marks]

Originally Posted by Paddy C

I think it should be very much in Leica's best interest to provide this update. This is the nature of the digital age and Leica ought to demonstrate that they are in tune with it and, at the same time, reward those customers who purchased the M8. It must be a very simple update that would generate nothing but goodwill for Leica.

Why this feature wasn't there in the beginning is beyond explanation in my opinion.

From an idealistic point i totally agree with you all the way. But why should they reward M8 buyers at this time point. They want M9 sales. How would this be profitable? This is marketing. The whole 6 bit trip was aimed at generating new lens sales presumably to try and claw back some of the R and D investment. The last thing Leica needs at the moment is for a group of M8 owners considering an M9 to stay put thanks to a nice upgrade.

Richard

[Jamie123]

Leitz? Don't think they will issue a firmware anytime soon

[Richard Marks]

Originally Posted by Double Negative

M8 owners are potential M9 customers... Once burned, twice shy eh?

I support this request as an M8 owner. Besides, I was promised "perpetual updates."

I agree entirely but clearly Leica do not. If they did they would have given it to us within the production life cycle of the M8. A number of discussions requested this within the first few months of the M8 launch. Leica did reply to this forum stating that the manual lens coding was not a good idea because one might forget when changing over lenses. Clearly they have had to re think this with the M9.

Richard

[DougFord]

Do you want the entire lens mapping table that’s available on the M9?
Does the M8 have the memory available to accommodate all of this data?

[kbg32]

I think it would be in their best interest for Leitz to do this. We all invested hard earned money in the M8/M8.2 and I have a lot invested in upwards of 12 lenses, UV/IR filters, adapters, etc.. I would be considering a M9, but due to the downward turn of the economy, my current job loss, loss of photographic royalties, having a a new family, a M9 right now is out of the question. Plus, I do remember that along with the purchase of the original M8, Leitz did say that there would be ongoing support.

[kbg32]

Why do I have the feeling that if Leitz developed this for the M9, it would be a new brainer to adapt the firmware upgrade to the M8s.

[Ken Shipman]

According to Leica it's not a no-brainer. It might look simple on the surface, but apparently it would involve a severe rewrite of the firmware to incorporate the feature.
Of course when software (or firmware) goes through significant revision new bugs are inadvertently introduced, which require more research, modification, testing, and follow-up patch release. It's an expensive cycle and Leica doesn't want to invest more into a discontinued product.
That's what I heard anyway, from a Leica product rep.

[Pherdinand]

haha,i think it is a hopeless action
sorry i really think so

[kbg32]

Originally Posted by Pherdinand

haha,i think it is a hopeless action
sorry i really think so

Hahaha?

Things get hopeless when one doesn't try to change things. Leitz promised those who bought M8s support into the future, with continuous firmware upgrades. At the time, they also said a M9 camera could not be done.

[Ken Shipman]

Originally Posted by kbg32

...At the time, they also said a M9 camera could not be done.

This gets quoted all the time. When that statement was made it was "given the technology available at the time". And that was true at that time.
Technology moves on; impossible problems become solvable over time. Nothing is forever. Even Leica was surprised how fast Kodak was able to solve the technology problem to enable the M9 full frame sensor.
This is different though. It's not a problem to be overcome by new technology. It's an expensive firmware rewrite for a discontinued product. It's a dollars-and-cents business decision.

[Pherdinand]

yea, haha ha. Kind of bitter hahaha.
Sure, go ahead and make petition. Yes-we-can.
It's all about money. Will somebody pay for it, no, then forget about it and live with the fact or buy the newest coolest salad on the market.

When cameras have to boot, it's all doomed anyway, lol

[malland]

There is an online petition here.

And there is an older thread here.

[Viktor Sebastian]

How about you all go and take some photographs with your M8s instead? Surely they still work? Or 09.09.09 render the firmware unreadable by the on board micro processor?

[mikenic]

I think they are obliged to at least fix the camera hanging up with the delayed release function introduced with the last software upgrade.

Perhaps some of the extra functions can be implemented then?

[slungu]

"Perpetual updates" - well, they did it, but also had some hardware changes. It is called M9 and you can get it from your friendly Leica dealer.
Now, seriously, if Leica would throw in a software update for M8/M8.2 users with more than big bug fixes, that would be a major surprise and something that has not been done until now in this business I think. Even if it sounds like simple, it is not the case, and if they have tried to optimize cost and are on the limit with RAM/ROM in the chip, it simply isn't possible. Even if it was, it does cost money, and that amount would go into something not earning money, since you already payed for your M8. Leica are at this time the only player in digital RF. If more players come in, with a Leica-M mount, they would have a harder time in this small market than the other (DSLR) manufacturers, since those have all their own mounts, unlike a unified M-mount market of DRF. But, as much as I would like to see some options, I don't think this will happen soon.

[malland]

Originally Posted by slungu

...Now, seriously, if Leica would throw in a software update for M8/M8.2 users with more than big fixes, that would be a major surprise and something that has not been done until now in this business I think....much as I would like to see some options, I don't think this will happen soon.

It may not happen, but it isn't something that has not been done: Ricoh has provided several substantial upgrades through free firmware uploads for it's GRD and GRD2 cameras; and has thereby gained goodwill from it's users.

—Mitch/Bangkok
Bangkok Hysteria© Book Project

[tcline]

Originally Posted by malland

It may not happen, but it isn't something that has not been done: Ricoh has provided several substantial upgrades through free firmware uploads for it's GRD and GRD2 cameras; and has thereby gained goodwill from it's users.

—Mitch/Bangkok
Bangkok Hysteria© Book Project

As a GRD2 and M8 owner I wouldn't mind seeing Ricoh enter the high end market. They really seem to understand what people are looking for and support their products in a way that is above and beyond. I love the GRD2, I cannot imagine a small pocket cam being anymore user friendly. It is so tailored to it's intended purpose.